2006 same old sh*t unless we get Paper Ballots and Hand Counts NOW!! nt

[In Truth We Trust]

[Kahuna]

1. Paper ballots are just as susceptible to mischief as black box...

MORE in fact. You don't have to be technology savvy to create mischief. Long before black box, elections were tampered with with paper ballots. They are in no way the solution.

[msongs]

2. paper ballot fraud is way less odious and easier to overcome...

electronic fraud = program a computer clandestinely and alter millions of votes statewide. paper ballots fraud is much more local and much harder to conceal.

the old days of LBJ dumping ballots into a lake to deliver texas or Mayor Daley fabricating ballots in chicago (both helped JFK win a questionable election) will be very hard to duplicate.

unfortunately the democratic party inc is not much interested in preventing ballot fraud of either kind.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[bettyellen]

4. what's the solution then?

and why do you think it's easier to alter votes one by one, leaving physical evidence, than to set a machine to flip over a certain percentage, so that thousands are changed at once, in a way that leaves no trace at all?

[In Truth We Trust]

6. With all due respect you are terribly midsinformed. Electronic voting

and tabulating is by far much more prone to WIDESPREAD fraWd. Paper ballots and hand counts are the most democratic and honest way to vote and count period. Any model will present a way in which it can be corrupted but paper ballots and hand counts pre3vent widespread fraWd and require much more human involvement.

Electronic voting literally presents a means by which one person can manipulate a whole countrys political choice. Seems incomprehensible but it literally is the case. We have republican owned companies owning the machines we use to vote. They own the software and don't even allow Sectretaries of State's to view it. Thats uncnstitutional imo and is quite obviously undemocratic.

You go ahead and defend this technology though and continue to attack paper ballots and hand counts if you believe such bullshit. It is your right to believe whatever you want. I would suggest though you do some research if you care for this country and whether or not your vote is counted.

[bettyellen]

8. thank you. i don't get people who think no steps should be taken

to fix things. and you are right, grossly misinformed.

[Land Shark]

10. no tax code and no election system is perfect; but the better ones

will leave witnesses and/or evidence (paper ballots do this) while the worse systems leave little or no evidence (electronic voting) and while the problems may sometimes be less "widespread", a SINGLE KEYSTROKE changes thousands of ballots.

How "widespread" it is, or the number of "incidents" is totally misleading. More relevant is the SMALL payoff for each paper ballot incident, and the GREATER amount of *Evidence* and/or Witnesses created.

Quite literally, electronic "incidents" and especially fraud reasonably well done will leave no evidence except that of a "smoothly" run election.

[Twist_U_Up]

3. We need to get the private corps that count the vote OUT NOW

you can have all the paper in the world. When a corp is behind the scenes counting the votes ,paper ballots mean nothing.

Stop the privitization of vote counters

[WA98296]

5. You are so Right, and POLLS & MEDIA aid in managing public opinion

It's the trifecta, used in unison:

The CORPORATE CONTROLLED MEDIA "managing" what we think, POLLS which "confirm" what we think, polls with little to no legitimacy being "reported" as factual...who can trust Gallup for instance who overpolls republicans and who contributes to republican candidates? And then, to completely finish off any actual democracy private corporations with a political (republican) agenda COUNTING OUR VOTES in private.

[Land Shark]

11. Not sure I can agree, but your post above does remind me of

a friend from another country who loves this country and its people, but as to the "system", he says it's "the most sophisticated bullshitting system ever developed by Mankind"

[donsu]

7. agree completely

paper ballots, hand counted, with an audience

[PowerToThePeople]

9. This needs to be forefront of our "needs to happen" list.

:kick: