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Did the Miltary Use DC Protest to Test Bio-weaponTularemia?

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:12 PM
Original message
Did the Miltary Use DC Protest to Test Bio-weaponTularemia?
We are all thinking it, so someone has to say it.

Here are the facts:

On Thursday, two days before the march, the military conducted some sort of top secret exercise in the DC area.

Bush and others cleared out of DC for the weekend.

The CDC has found tularemia in filters placed around the Mall on Sept 24 and 25.

The US military has a long, sordid history of using US citizens for secret testing of bioweapons.

The military has been working with tularemia for some time as a biological weapon.


Here is the speculation:

The military wanted to test tularemia as a bio-weapon. It knew that a whole bunch of people would be in DC and that the administration would not miss any of them. So, on Thursday it places tularemia in delivery systemns. No idea which system was chosen, but a simple one would be in the ground where it would be stirred up by people marching/walking in mass numbers on Saturday.

Since the military does not really want to kill people, just see how many people get exposed to the bug and of them how many people get sick, it is crucial to spread the word ASAP about the exposure so that people will rush to their doctors for testing. Therefore, the fact that the CDC has filters in place to detect the bug is important. The news of the tularemia is quickly disseminated on TV, newspapers and on the internet at sites like this one. The CDC tells everyone to hurry to the doctors for blood tests if they show any systems of possible disease.

Result, free clinical trial for the military of the effectiveness of whatever delivery system they chose to test out on a population that they despise.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. as a person who just took ill
and has every one of the symptoms involved I'm taking this very seriously.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Go get a blood test and antibiotics. No insurance go to health dept.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. called the ny office. they're trying to find me a local person to talk to
also found some anti-biotics i had lying around.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Dont just take any old antibiotocs. Needs to be tetracycline class
certain dose and up to date. That's what doctors are for.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I second that!
You can make yourself sicker by taking the wrong kind.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. oops
well took one already. ill wait until i hear from public health until i take more. I ususally kick disease very quickly.
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YouthInAsia Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. which one did you take?? Im a pharmacist.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Omnicef
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YouthInAsia Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. nope, thats not gonna work. Cephalosporins are useless against it
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Splatter Phoenix Donating Member (626 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. Who's that guy in your picture?
*Hopelessly clueless*
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YouthInAsia Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Joseph Goebbels. Hitler's minister of Propoganda. Aka Karl Rove
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Splatter Phoenix Donating Member (626 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #41
53. Oohhh....
Damn, I thought he was charismatic enough by himself to not need one of those...unlike our Chimpy.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Actually, it can prevent a culture from taking.
From what kestrel said in the LBN thread, this bacteria is hard to culture, anyway, but if you have the disease, taking antibiotics can kill off just enough of the bacteria to foul up tests.

If anyone contracts tularemia, a big stink needs to be raised.

I sent this story to folks in my local peace group. We sponsored a representative to march for us in Washington. I felt a little strange postulating that the government could have been involved in releasing airborne tularemia. God, I feel like some whacko full-Reynold's-wrap warrior, but I have to admit this is possible.

It may also be that the government is trying to scare folks away from protests. Maybe they're saying, "Next time it will be something worse and we'll fucking cover it up."

I just don't know what to think anymore. :shrug:
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
31. I have cfs/me
And I have been wondering a long time about government testing. One of the first outbreaks of CFS (chronic fatique syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis) was in Florida in the fifties, just after they released hundreds of thousands of deliberately infected mosquitoes that had been produced in Canada, to see how well they disseminated whatever illness it was.

Made a lot of people sick. CFS/ME is a much more horrible disease than people have any idea.

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YouthInAsia Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
42. i dont doubt for ONE SECOND that they would do this.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. JAMA: The incubation period is 3-5 days.
I was there. That was a week ago. I'm not sick. Nor is anyone else I know who was present at the march. If you had been exposed to weaponized tularemia, you would be deathly ill quite quickly.

This is what the Journal of the American Medical Association (2001) had to say about it:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/search?fulltext=tularemia& ...
Conclusions A weapon using airborne tularemia would likely result 3 to 5 days later in an outbreak of acute, undifferentiated febrile illness with incipient pneumonia, pleuritis, and hilar lymphadenopathy. Specific epidemiological, clinical, and microbiological findings should lead to early suspicion of intentional tularemia in an alert health system; laboratory confirmation of agent could be delayed. Without treatment, the clinical course could progress to respiratory failure, shock, and death. Prompt treatment with streptomycin, gentamicin, doxycycline, or ciprofloxacin is recommended. Prophylactic use of doxycycline or ciprofloxacin may be useful in the early postexposure period.

Don't let someone panic you about this. If the symptoms get worse, see your doctor. But, I think you have nothing worse than a head-cold.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. CDC: Tularemia FAQs, symptoms, treatment, etc.
About Tularemia from the CDC
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/tularemia/faq.asp

Q. What is tularemia?
A. Tularemia, also known as rabbit fever, is a disease caused by the bacterium Francisella tularensis. Tularemia is typically found in animals, especially rodents, rabbits, and hares. Tularemia is usually a rural disease and has been reported in all U.S. states except Hawaii.

Q. How do people become infected with tularemia?
A. Typically, people become infected through the bite of infected insects (most commonly, ticks and deerflies), by handling infected sick or dead animals, by eating or drinking contaminated food or water, or by inhaling airborne bacteria.

Q. Does tularemia occur naturally in the United States?
A. Yes. Tularemia is a widespread disease in animals. About 200 human cases of tularemia are reported each year in the United States. Most cases occur in the south-central and western states. Nearly all cases occur in rural areas, and are caused by the bites of ticks and biting flies or from handling infected rodents, rabbits, or hares. Cases also resulted from inhaling airborne bacteria and from laboratory accidents.

Q. What are the signs and symptoms of tularemia?
A. The signs and symptoms people develop depend on how they are exposed to tularemia. Possible symptoms include skin ulcers, swollen and painful lymph glands, inflamed eyes, sore throat, mouth sores, diarrhea or pneumonia. If the bacteria are inhaled, symptoms can include abrupt onset of fever, chills, headache, muscle aches, joint pain, dry cough, and progressive weakness. People with pneumonia can develop chest pain, difficulty breathing, bloody sputum, and respiratory failure. Tularemia can be fatal if the person is not treated with appropriate antibiotics.

Q. Why are we concerned about tularemia being used as a bioweapon?
A. Francisella tularensis is highly infectious. A small number of bacteria (10-50 organisms) can cause disease. If Francisella tularensis were used as a bioweapon, the bacteria would likely be made airborne so they could be inhaled. People who inhale the bacteria can experience severe respiratory illness, including life-threatening pneumonia and systemic infection, if they are not treated.

(snip)

Q. What should someone do if he or she suspects exposure to tularemia bacteria?
A. If you suspect you were exposed to tularemia bacteria, see a doctor quickly. Treatment with antibiotics for a period of 10-14 days or more after exposure may be recommended. If you are given antibiotics, it is important to take them according to the instructions you receive. All of the medication you are given must be taken.

(more... )


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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. another person posted 3-14 days incubation
and has been very, very adamant about this being a real threat.

I think it's BS personally. If the incubation period is 3-5 days then we've got nothing to worry about.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. That other person did not cite any source for 1-15 days.
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 01:39 PM by leveymg
That report was at the string from last night, which I just posted a link to. Does anyone have another solid source?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. MD State Dept. of Health: 1-14 days, usually 3-5 days incubation
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 01:59 PM by leveymg
http://www.edcp.org/factsheets/tularemia.html

Symptoms appear in 1 to 14 days (usually 3 to 5 days)

The first symptoms of tularemia are most often a slowly developing sore at the site where the bacteria entered the skin and swelling of the lymph glands. Sometimes there are no ulcers, but lymph glands will swell up and open to drain. When the bacteria are taken in through the mouth (e.g., by food or water), symptoms may include a severe sore throat, stomach pain, diarrhea, and vomiting. If the bacteria are breathed in, the disease may be very serious and cause a severe lung infection or a blood stream infection, which can cause death if not treated.


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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. well I just found this from JAMA
<snip>
Inhalational Tularemia Following Use as a Biological Weapon

Although F tularensis could be used as a weapon in a number of ways, the working group believes that an aerosol release would have the greatest adverse medical and public health consequences. Release in a densely populated area would be expected to result in an abrupt onset of large numbers of cases of acute, nonspecific febrile illness beginning 3 to 5 days later (incubation range, 1-14 days), with pleuropneumonitis developing in a significant proportion of cases during the ensuing days and weeks. Public health authorities would most likely become aware of an outbreak of unusual respiratory disease in its early stages, but this could be difficult to distinguish from a natural outbreak of community-acquired infection, especially influenza or various atypical pneumonias. The abrupt onset of large numbers of acutely ill persons, the rapid progression in a relatively high proportion of cases from upper respiratory symptoms and bronchitis to life-threatening pleuropneumonitis and systemic infection affecting, among others, young, previously healthy adults and children should, however, quickly alert medical professionals and public health authorities to a critical and unexpected public health event and to bioterrorism as a possible cause (Table 1). Until the etiology became clear, clinicians would need to work closely with epidemiologists and diagnostic laboratories to differentiate the illness from various community-acquired pneumonias and to determine if it could have resulted from use of one of several potential bioterrorism weapons agents, such as those causing tularemia, plague, anthrax, or Q fever.2, 4, 29 <snip>

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/285/21/2763 ?

So now what? :shrug:
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. This is already on the scope at CDC
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 02:22 PM by leveymg
If there's an outbreak of Tularemia-related illness among attendees at the DC protest, it will be reported here and at other boards. We need to alert ourselves of the potential, and anyone who truly believes she's sick, should seek medical attention.

If there's a real pattern here, we'll be among the first to know. CDC should monitor this topic.

The question is, how should DU Admin. deal with this? If they frontpage now, before it's clear that there really is a problem, that would not be a good thing if this is just a scare. But, on the other hand, we should have a single thread on this topic that stays posted and is easy to find.

Any thoughts on this?
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. I was at the protest and my friend Tamyrlin 79 was with me.
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 01:24 PM by Melodybe
he just got sick.

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
51. How sick?
Coughing and spitting up bloody phlem and high fever sick? Take that person to the ER. Otherwise, if it's a sneaze every few minutes, take their temperature, and make some soup.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. Recommended.



Attendees need to compare notes and observations. It doesn't look good that Smirky left town. I wouldn't put anything past the Bushco admin.





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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. Let's not forget the "Granite Shadow" operation in DC during the protest.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Thats the one I meant. FBI should be all over this NOW. Not ,later.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. Good God, ya'll!
You can't be serious. I just can't go here.

If this turns out to be true I am moving into the woods or something. This would destroy any feelings I have for my country.

I pray you are wrong.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. I lost my"feelings" long ago
I hate the pigs in the military and corporate power circles and I do not trust authoritarians,I have been guinea pigged before.I do not respect people who do as they are told on rote and do not question authority.

I love the citizens here however..But hate the authoritarians and their coercive systems..and I hate the criminal classes these authoritarians use and sometimes exploit to maintain power and I do not trust any of the higher ups of the government or corporations or the churches.I think power corrupts absolutely and citizens in fear of being labeled"conspiracy nuts" for asking questions about bio weapons experiments or technologies that could be used on citizens have failed to really keep this govt.clean and accountable to the citizens out of fear of ridicule from their own peers and I think this is sad.I think people who go far out might be giving misinformation or they are freaking out but they knew about the bio-weapon crap before the general public could even entertain the idea.. We live in a kakistocracy.

I have had too many bad experiences with abuse of power and the depravity of the culture of control to ever trust them.I got PSTD for a reason.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Did you watch the response after Katrina? Economic genocide why not
philosophic? "who needs those pesky liberals anyway-he he he (in Jon Stewarts bush voice)"
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. It was genocide
And some of these survivors are now in camps far away from familiar faces dealing with traumas so who knows what will happen to them.
Frankly the government has been wanting to make a drug to remove guilt from PSTD sufferers so soldiers do not come back with PSTD and the natural human aversion to killing others is overcome.Boot camp and other exercises are designed to mess with a person's personality structure to turn them into killers for the rich who obey orders.

PSTD is a psychiatric injury that is not easy or cheap to cure.It can be spread to kids dependant on parents with PSTD through witnessing suffering military personnel,survivors or first responders freaking out from triggers or you can get psychiatric injuries from living around crazy making
narcissists,sociopaths,sadists,abusers,bullies,authoritarians.
People with persona's similar to the monster squatter in the WH now.
These sick personalities are not rare.Look at the child abuse,domestic abuse,rape rates, to start with and see the truth of how sick people are.

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Sugar Smack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
45. Same here, babe. I'm not sick-
I was there, I'm a smoker, and nothing has happened to me, but I know a few people who were put down from illness.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. Tularemia vaccine and resistant genetically engineered strain
During the 1980s and 1990s Ken Alibek reported to have personally developed a vaccine resistant strain of tularemia. He also said that the Russians had antibiotic resistant strains and were working on a strain that was resistant to all know antibiotics.

<snip>

Today it is known that Tularemia studies have been performed in several countries around the world, including Canada, Russia, Egypt, Japan, Britain and the US. Some of these countries may still have stockpiles of the weapon. It is also clear that bioweapons studies have occurred in many other nations, including Iran, North Korea, Algeria, India, China and Pakistan. It is not known which agents have been researched in these countries. In his book, Alibek states that Russian scientists were known to have contact with scientists in both North Korea and Iran, and they had possibly shared information and technology. He also described a flier he had recently received from a Moscow company offering genetically engineered strains of Tularemia. The owner of this Moscow company had been a colleague of Alibeks at one of the bioweapon facilities.


http://dpalm.med.uth.tmc.edu/courses/BT2003/BTstudents2...
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. The govt. has been testing
bio stuff on people since it began
Remember small poxed blankets.? I was hit with mycoplasma.in the 80's

Do not trust these high ranking military people. Never trust them.They will never be honest.They are morally bankrupt.They are criminals and I think they DO want to cull us and collapse civilization in a way that will save their assets and asses..As peak oil passes they'd rather cull us than solve problems(they are control freak bully incompetents) They do not want to share ANY wealth with others,(they are greedy and over-ambitious and narcissistic) They don't care and they FAKE caring(sociopathy).It only takes a few generations of total ignorance for technological knowledge to be lost.Can you say cargo cult gods and slaves? Sounds far fetched to someone with a conscience but what if you had no conscience and staying in control,keeping power and staying wealthy is all that mattered to you? What if you saw others as objects to use exploit an abuse and beat?

These people are not to be trusted.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thank you for labelling it speculation. Interesting, but no evidence.
Tularemia was investigated in the 60s as a possible bio-weapon and found wanting, since it is easily defeated by antibiotics and doesn't spread person to person.

From this, you expand it into "The military has been working with tularemia for some time as a biological weapon." I don't think you can provide any solid evidence of this beyond what I wrote above.

Please do not make mountains out of molehills. If you get otherwise intelligent people chasing down conspiracy ratholes, it serves the Bush / Republican machine purposes because those people aren't out there being activists on real issues, like they could be, where they'd have some real effect.

It is much easier to make a rumor of a vast conspiracy or even a medium sized conspiracy than it is to actually mount such a conspiracy.

Please don't play into the Bush-Cheney-Corpratism game.

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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. They are soulless
they do not care. They are sociopaths.I do not need a mountain of evidence prove it..I don't doubt my own eyes and other people I know 'cause their suffering is real and the government does not care(remember agent orange and depleted uranium and mad cow all of that was"not really a threat" once too..The people in power do not want any hard evidence of this shit they do coming out. If they did they would not be able to dominate and exploit the world so easily as they do when people trust them as if they had any decency or respect for others lives.National security often means protecting the "elites" comfort and hegemony and fake image they present to the public.We are throwaways to be used like fodder that will slave for them that is why rich white right winger kids never see a battlefield or face failure.

I don't trust any authoritarians or believe they care about me,especially if I do not do as they want me to.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Panther
you have obviously been really hurt by something/someone to develop this level of mistrust.

But I cannot argue with you about it because I have not studied it nor have I experienced it.

I will say this: if you are correct, these guys are damned good at hiding what they are doing. The scenario you paint would be one of total evil vs. good, rather like a good sci fi movie. If it is true, then I believe I might need to re-examine my rather moderate religious views because this would be proof to me, of Satan.

For my own mental health I guess I will have to just go with what I know now personally and hope sincerely that you are wrong. I will also hope you find peace and safety.
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deek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
60. check out
"People of the Lie" by Scott Peck. He also has written other books re introspection ("Road Less Traveled", etc.) and spiritual exploration (I believe he has adopted Christianity after researching many other religions). Peck addresses the concept of Satan and pure evil in the "People of the Lie".
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
43. So true. As of now, we have no evidence that reports
of tularemia weren't just planted in the media expressly for the purpose of diverting the left's attention from other matters. So while I dont' necessarily put anything past this administration, I'm skeptical of everything I hear that might be calculated to keep the people fearful. So people who are investigating this, work on, we need you to check it out. But for everyone else... mere conjecture and panic won't solve anyting. I will wait until a confirmed case of contamination comes to light before I start buying into this particular threat.
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
44. The military are hardly going to admit to researching it ...
University of Texas at San Antonio biology professor Karl Klose and his team of researchers have been awarded a $6.4 million, five-year grant from the Department of Health and Human Services to study tularemia, a potential bio-weapon. ...
"We are going to learn what makes this organism tick and what strategies it uses to evade immune responses and eventually kill its host," said Klose.
http://utsa.edu/today/2005/09/tularemia.cfm
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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
17. Question: WHY Tularemia? Would it break up the crowds?
What would be the point of bioweapons testing during a march? How would they know that the "tests" were effective or not? This sounds like a bunch of bullshit.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. rumours of bioweapon releases at protest events would certainly
cause lots of folks to to show UP for subsequent marches.

Simple really.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Remember
Hipaa?

Ever read the stuff they hand out about Hippa? That you sign?
IIt ain't JUST patient privacy..

That your medical information and presecriptions records can be sent right to the "authorities" if requested?

Read it and weep.
http://www.hipaadvisory.com/regs/finalprivacy/512.htm
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. You got that right! But fun to obsess on. :P
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Clinical trial. Know the numbers there, find out how many test
positive for the disease and this tells you how effective the delivery system would be on an urban population center.

The key to this kind of clinical trial is to spread the word about the exposure as quickly as possible so that people get tested. No good to have say a hundred people have mild infections that are never diagnosed and maybe two or three die of mystery pneumonia that doctors never identify because no one thought to test for tularemia which is not on the differential diagnosis list and one person get diagnosed with tularemia by a partucularly bright infectious disease expert.

A protest crowd is an EXCELLENT study population. Highly motivated, mostly affluent, suspicious of the government, reads the news. Much better than testing say a group of homeless schizophrenics. This is a population which will follow up with the recommended blood tests.

Seriously doubt that this was intended to scare the protesters. However, as with the anthrax mailings which I suspect also came from someone with military connections, the fact that a bio-weapon was used can be exploited by the administration to increase fears of terrorism and get the nation back "On MEssage" as Karl Rove would say.

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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. You haven't thought through the timing
You haven't thought through the timing.

If it was a "clinical trial" (which it was not), then given the fact that infection and symptoms appear rapidly if at all with Tularemia, waiting six days, as has happened, would defeat the whole scenario you suggest.

Much easier and far less risky to spread a rumor of a conspiracy on internet forums than to actually hold a conspiracy.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. Well im going to get tested right now so ill let yall know
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
46. We should keep track of the origin of this story. I first saw it
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 01:35 PM by leveymg
last night at DU (1:17 am) and responded, as above.

Here's the thread from last night:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... Did anyone see it posted before or since here at DU, or elsewhere?

This is a very serious topic. I think it should be discussed, and at this point, am not accusing anyone of rumour-mongering.

If people have facts to contribute, please do so. But, please, be a responsible adult and do not spread alarmist speculation.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. yep
this is nothing to play with and frankly I'm getting pissed off at people who are deliberately trying to scare fellow DUers.

Not cool.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. Here are some more threads
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 02:07 PM by leveymg
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. They know the number of subjects exposed
After a week, they release a news alert. People go to the hospital and get prescriptions filled. Pharmacies have records of these prescriptions. Over time, they also get records of deaths and cause of death to account for those exposed who remained untreated.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. What are the symptoms?
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
49. They are....
Sudden fever
Chills
Headaches
Muscle aches
Joint pain
Dry cough
Conjunctivitis

http://www.nbc4.com/news/5044125/detail.html?subid=1010...

(The symptoms are listed halfway down the page.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #49
61. Hmm. I became ill on Monday.
Muscle aches, slight chill, slight sore throat and cough. My daughter (who stayed home) got sick on Wednesday and has it worse.
The NBC report says it's not contagious so I'm thinking it's just a regular case of the flu.

But maybe I should still get tested, huh?

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livvy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #26
50. Fever, headache, muscle ache, dry cough...much like the flu.
Incubation period is up to 14 days. You aren't feeling sick at all are you? I've felt like I'm coming down with a cold, but I figure it came from my kids.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
32. I dunno, but aren't the DoD and Pentagon in the DC area?
If you wanted to test a bioweapon, WHY would you test it near your own headquarters?

And Tularemia is endemic in California. Why not just study the conditions of its spread where it already occurs?

:tinfoilhat: :think:
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Natural immunity in endemic area. Plus we are talking weapon to
be used in urban area. It is natural in sparsely populated rural areas where it wont really do the Petnagon much good as a weapon.

If you want to know what dropping this stuff on Tehran will do, drop it on DC first.
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #32
57. Don't chuck your umbrella away along with your hat.
The tularemia in Cali is mostly contracted through the skin directly from animals. What happens in those cases is quite different and irrelevant to what happens when you use it as a weapon, spraying an aerosol over people so they catch the much deadlier inhalent fom.

It is also fairly safe to anyone it was not directly sprayed on as it is broken down by sunlight in 30 minutes.

This is not to say it did happen, I hope the news reports are lies. But if it did happen and people who were there and get sick don't get medical attention, some could die. I'm far away in Australia, but I still care about you guys, and don't want anyone taking unnecessary risks.
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livvy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
52. There are a few threads going on this....
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
59.  Don't Forget: "President Orders Evacuation of Parts of DC - 923
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Essentially, he has ordered the evacuation of a tract of federal government property located at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW. The mixed use residential/office tract houses mainly executive offices and living quarters associated with the Office of the President of the United States.

Occupants of the compound are reportedly heading for a brief stop in San Antonio, Texas, after which they will be in a secure Colorado military bunker.

No specific reason for the evacuation was cited by sources close to the government, but rumors of a shitstorm of political opposition set to strike the District Of Columbia later today have been rampant in some US media.

The same government sources deny knowing who Cindy Sheehan is.

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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
62. locking
If anyone is feeling ill from being in DC, please seek medical attention.
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