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Who "died" so that I could state my opinions and beliefs?

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Freedomfried Donating Member (684 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:51 PM
Original message
Who "died" so that I could state my opinions and beliefs?
I'm always hearing, "somebody died to give you the right to speak freely in America".

Where did this fallacy start and what line of reasoning supports it?

There has never,ever been a war or military action where Americans right to free speech was on the line, actually it's the militarism that goes along with an authoritarian government that, to me, represents the greatest threat to truthful self expression.

So where and how did this start?
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. hmmmm.... the Revolutionary War maybe?
just a suggestion.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Got it in 1!!!!!
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. That's right, the UK didn't allow free speech.
That was surly the reason for the revolution!
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. no, not "the" reason... but from Zenger forward....
"a" reason. The first amendment wasn't an accident.
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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. Actually the entire Revolution was sort of an irrational reaction
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:31 PM by MessiahRp
Historians suggest that The British always treated us well and our POWs fairly well considering it was a war and that we had somewhat overreacted to declare it.

I do believe the entire war is the most fascinating ever and I think that guys like Samuel Adams, John Hancock, Ben Franklin & John Adams(albeit reluctantly), George Washington and others had amazing guts to take on the most powerful army in the world at the time over a matter of principles...

But I do think that those who questioned the neccesity of the war were justified in their line of questioning...

And no, the British didn't prevent our free speech, even though we were printing and shouting rather treasonous things towards the King and his troops well before the beginning of the war.

Rp
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. British concepts of "free speech" were (and still are)
greatly different than ours. They tolerated the "printing and shouting" precisely to avoid the kind of armed conflict they eventually got. I am not saying this was a principle motive for the rebellion, but it was in the mix of disgruntlements. Otherwise, how do you explain the 1st Amendment wherein all three possible forms of "speech" -- spoken, written and by demonstration are addressed and protected? And what is the British parallel?
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Before a war, for sure, to get recruits
Maybe the Korean War?
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. MLK jr died so you could speak , Malcom X died so you can speak
and in My Humble Opinion Abbie Hoffman Died
so you have the right to speak .

There are many others Never Never forget them

:patriot:
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Good comeback.
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Freedomfried Donating Member (684 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Good answer
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:01 PM by Freedomfried
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. what?
that's not a convincing response.
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. The dead of WW 2, JFK, MLK, RFK, Malcom X
Just to name a few.
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. Abbie Hoffman committed suicide.
I would say that he lived so we could have the right to speak, but I wouldn't count his death on the list.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
28. I thought Malcom X died because he got on Elijah Mohammed's bad side
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daninthemoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. Excellent question. There is a terrible country song written from the
perspective of an OilWarII soldier singing from his grave in Arlington, about his pride in being there. Any time I hear it I wish someone would write a more realistic version from a national guard trooper, a guy who signed up to honorably serve his country and his community, but who instead watched his guts and his life spill out from him in Iraq, shocked at the betrayal of his volunteer service that this damn white house killed him for. Anyway, if somebody does write this song, I hope they add your point that these brave people are not dying for our free speech. They are dying to make some rich bastards richer.
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Geoff R. Casavant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'd go with WWII
If the US of A didn't step up to the plate, Europe would have fallen to Germany. After that, it would only have been a matter of time before Herr Hitler started looking westward . . .
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. Apparently, they died so that right-wingers could try to silence dissent
you always hear that argument. Wouldn't that mean, then, that protest and dissent were GOOD things? I mean, if they're so integral to the freedoms this country is about, that all these soldiers are dying for?

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Freedomfried Donating Member (684 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Its like you owe somebody something just for stating your honest opinion
which I think is my right as a human being.
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. those human "rights" don't come cheap....
you know that.
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Freedomfried Donating Member (684 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. No I don't know that
Everybody has a right to speak their minds, without being told that they "owe" somebody something for doing so.
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. never said you "owed" anybody...
just said those rights don't come cheap.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. They need to be constantly exercised. And people need to understand
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 02:56 AM by impeachdubya
that what makes this country great isn't George Bush, Rummy, or a fuckin' red-white-and-blue Hummer with Toby Keith blaring out the stereo.

What makes this country great is the CONSTITUTION and the BILL OF RIGHTS, two things that are being shat upon by the "leadership" in this country...

also, those are two things that were NOT "protected" by people dying in Vietnam, were not "protected" by our government supporting murderous thugs in places like El Salvador and Nicaragua, and most CERTAINLY are not being "protected" by this war, based upon cheap, shoddy lies, being waged in Iraq.

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marbuc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. You mean freedom isn't free? eom
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. Some of my ancestors died for that right fighting for independence.
And later in the civil war, that all men are created equal, which gives them the equal right to speak up.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. The Iran hostage situation, 1980
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. My response
when someone hands me the "our soldiers are dying to give you the right to speak freely" line as a criticism of my speaking out against the war always is: "So why are you dishonoring their sacrifice?"

onenote
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daninthemoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Amen
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RONSTOO Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
27. Jesus
once again you will go to hell if you dont accept Jesus.

Repeat that in your mind.
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