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tompayne1 Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:56 PM
Original message
Everyone at the CIA hates Porter Goss
I have friends who used to work there and they say everyone is sick of him because he is an arrogant prick. Anyone else have similar stories?
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Are you Porter Goss?
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why doesn't that surprise me!!!
Peace.
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. Nah.
But the general buzz is that the anger and frustration in the intelligence community over the past 5 years has grown to toxic proportions.
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tompayne1 Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. i Guess between tenet and goss they have not had much in the way of
good leadership.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Just from observation
you can see ther eis some sort of little battle going on between the FBI and CIA and the whole community in general I think. Everything in this country is crazy. :crazy:
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I think that's true for nearly every federal agency
under the hack Bush appointees heading them.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. Those that can
Leave.
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tompayne1 Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. yeah they were lucky enough
To get into private security firms.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. I heard there was a major overhaul at the CIA...
A lot of people were shown the door if they didn't talk the company line or moved out of step.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Yes
I read about this last December. Bush purged the CIA and anyone who didn't agree with him and his policies was fired.
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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. I thought those guys
have ways of dealing with people they don't like?
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tompayne1 Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. they can't get away
With whacking people they don't like very easily the NSA (only sane agency even if it is full of introverts) is really quite good at knowing what is going on in those cases.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
12. Well, *I* Hate Him and I Don't Even WORK There (as far as I know) n/t
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rwheeler31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. Incompetence breeds indolance and arrogance.
It is the thing you see in kids, It's not my fault syndrome, until you bring them back to reality. You have to learn to live.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. Think of him in the photo with the Cuban operatives. One photo tells
a big story. Dirtry tricks. Maybe more. it was taken around the time of the Kennedy assasssination, I believe. Happenstance.
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tompayne1 Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. did
goss work for nixon? i was not aware of that.
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I have the pic somewhere on my computer
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 10:31 PM by Elwood P Dowd
Goss, Barry Seal, and a bunch of young CIA operatives drinking at a restaurant in Mexico during the 60s.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
18. Didn't get the Big Fish. Who do you think forced BushCo to Appoint Fitz?
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 10:46 PM by leveymg
You do know the Agency and its institutional allies pressured Bush to allow a grand jury to be convened in the Plame case?

Why would the Administration back down and allow the empaneling of federal grand juries in the Plamegate case, the OSP-AIPAC spy case, and the Abramoff case, but not in the other -- strictly domestic -- political scandals?

The common element here is espionage connected to one or more foreign governments, resulting in massive damage to US vital interests . That the JCS, CIA, DIA and FBI will not, and cannot, tolerate. Not even from BushCo, which includes a lot of powerful old spooks.

Had Bush and Cheney refused to take the deal offered, there are miles of tapes at NSA that contain more than one might need to take down any political figure or faction in America. The tapes on this Administration are particularly grungy. Stuff that make Abu Ghraib seem like a fraternity initiation.

There are simply some things that are more powerful than the Presidency.



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tompayne1 Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. You are right on that one
The NSA has the Echelon system that is currently monitoring everything we say and everything anyone else is saying electronically if it was used properly it would give whomever had control of it control of most of the world.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. It has for half a century.
They don't care what we say. We don't really threaten them. Those who are wealthy, powerful, and well-connected -- and their families and close friends -- get the bugs, the band width and the file space.

Before that, it was Hoover's gumshoes listening at keyholes of celebrities, taking notes. J. Edgar invented the blackmail game, but it took the microchip and algorithm to make it really work as a tool to control the political system.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Interesting
You speak as if you have first hand knowledge, or at least second. We all suspect and hear rumors but of course 99.99% are outsiders. Care to enlighten us a bit more?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I just read between the lines a lot.
And talk to others who do the same. There are surprisingly few real secrets.

Just proceed on the assumption that those who control the apparatus of the 21st Century state have huge budgets and few scruples.
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tompayne1 Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. enlighten?
well i met goss once at the whitehouse picnic lol. No what i am saying is that i have contacts who have left the CIA from both analysis and Clandestine for the private sector because of Goss's incompetence and his stooges who actually run the agency right now (in its pathetic hobbling state) personally i think the DHS should be disolved and the OSS reactivated. that would solve a lot of problems.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. What are your ex-CIA friends saying they're doing about this sad state
of affairs?

Is there a shadow Agency -- like the post-Halloween Massacre Assoc of Retired Intel Officers -- forming? I know several people in the National Security Whistle Blowers, but that's not quite the same thing.

Was this the same WH picnic at which you met Beezelbub?
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tompayne1 Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. lol yeah
i met most of the cabinet. and everyone else as well. i don't know about the shadow agency but i am not ex intel i am a staffer.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Are you a Dem or Them?
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:19 PM by leveymg
Just curious about context. I have plenty of friends who are or were conservative Republicans, some who might be considered latter-day Birchers, who are deadset against this regime. I really like talking to people who aren't coming from exactly my tangent on issues. They challenge my assumptions, and I do them. It's a game I enjoy.
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tompayne1 Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Dem
all the way.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Then, you're on the Hill?
Or in an agency?
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tompayne1 Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. On the hill
I am not telling the office though.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I hope you wouldn't.
Are you privvy to people on the intel committee?
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tompayne1 Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. yes sir.
beg your pardon but i need to go to bed, i can be contacted via either this messaging system or tompayne1@gmail.com or shilohtd@gmail.com


thank you and good night.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Good night. I'll e-mail this weekend.
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tompayne1 Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Pardon the lack of trust but it is natural for me
Sorry.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Don't apologize.
I only ask because I have Q&As for the Oct. 5 Able Danger hearings, and would like to find a way to get them to the right people.

We can talk further on this by the DU private e-mail, if you want.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Thank you both
The situation you describe TP, I am sure has been played out in every department (see FEMA.) Our government is being run by people who hate government and want to see it fail. I've read Ray McGivern and other disgruntled agency refugees and I have no doubt the few professionals that are left are pissed.
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VPStoltz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's just another case of cronyism run amuck.
Some time before the idea of making Goss the CIA chief, he was asked about the agency post 9/11. He said it was doing all it could and he couldn't possibly run a show like that. So what did * do? Put in charge of the show. Are we really surprised?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Makes complete sense, if the purpose is to hamstring your potential
rivals. The MO is to either decapitate rival organizations (e.g., CIA) or to put people in charge -- like Chertoff at DHS -- who have a personal stake in covering up past scandals. What better way to assure loyalty?

Keep in mind that BushCo isn't a political movement or even a dynasty, it's an intelligence operation, and it functions as one.
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tompayne1 Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. yeah
what is your opinon on re activating the OSS though. personally i like it.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. They went to work at CBS after the war.
Not sure there's any real power-elite centers like that anymore. There are the big DC and Wall Street law firms, that functioned as the nation's de facto intelligence community before there was an OSS.

I would imagine such a group would need a powerful base, preferable covered by attorney-client or reporter-source privilege.

What do you think?
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
40. Damn it, that's very exclusional. I'm not even WITH the CIA --
-- and I hate Porter Goss, too.

Can I be on the list of people who hate Porter Goss?

Pretty Please?
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
41. Knowing that the CIA is so politicized and demoralized...
...does NOT cause me to "feel safer because Bush is president." That's just one of many reasons. I never did understand that bogus argument, and can't imagine why ANYONE (even a freeper) would really feel safer with Shrub in the White House. I feel more vulnerable on many fronts. Mainly I don't want to be left to the tender mercies of Bush's FEMA if SoCal were to have a major earthquake, but I don't feel safer in the event of a terrorist attack either.

The thought that Porter Goss is running the CIA the way "Brownie" ran FEMA is flat-out terrifying!
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Name some instances where the CIA
was actually effective. I think that agency has been famous for bad judgment and blunders and missed calls for decades.
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