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Democrat 4 Ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:33 AM
Original message
"Christian" Family Member forwarded this to me today.
She is a beloved aunt that I have always been close to in the past. I have never known her to be especially political about anything. Lately she has been sending me a bunch of forwarded emails - obviously from her "religious" buddies about prayer in school, evolution, etc. Today's just took the cake. I usually just delete her stuff and move on. I'm still trying to formulate a reply to her. She honestly thinks that ALL Muslins are to blame for the actions of 19 men on 9/11? I just can't find the words but I have to answer her - in a polite, nice way but I need to slap this crap down. (She is my mother's sister and my Mom would never forgive me if I was impolite - she raised me better!) I have never found her to be narrow minded but maybe I have just been overlooking the elephant at the family reunions!

I'm thinking about writing back and reminding her that just because Jimmy Swaggert and Jim Baker did some things that aren't taught in the Sunday School doesn't mean I think that all Baptists act the same way. Nineteen men on 9/11 defamed Muslins everywhere but I hope to be open-minded enough to know that does not stand for all Muslins everywhere. Right now, I'm just pissed. It is hard enough to fight the true zealots without getting this nonsense from people you thought were smarter.

Subject: WHAT A SLAP IN THE FACE!

How ironic is this??!! They don't even believe in Christ and they're getting their own Christmas stamp, but don't dream of posting the ten commandments on federal property?

USPS New Stamp


This one is impossible to believe. Scroll down for the text.

If there is only one thing you forward today.....let it be this! ???

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of PanAm Flight 103!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon !

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the military barracks in Saudi Arabia !

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the American Embassies in Africa !

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the USS COLE!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM attack on 9/11/2001 !

REMEMBER all the AMERICAN lives that were lost in those vicious MUSLIM attacks!

Now the United States Postal Service REMEMBERS and HONORS the EID MUSLIM holiday season with a commemorative first class holiday postage stamp.

REMEMBER to adamantly and vocally BOYCOTT this stamp when purchasing your stamps at the post office. To use this stamp would be a slap in the face to all those AMERICANS who died at the hands of those whom this stamp honors.

REMEMBER to pass this along to every patriotic AMERICAN you know

Arthur E. Stafford

*Note - I copied the picture of the new stamp from the web site World Net Daily because the photo from the Postal Service site was too small to see the detail.






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thefloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ask her if
David Koresh (sp?) represents Christianity. Or better yet ask about the Crusades.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
39. Most fundies
haven't the vaguest idea of what really happened in the crusades. To them, the crusaders were/are heroes trying to win the world for Jesus.

They are not aware of their own history and they certainly can't be described as having any real intellectual curiosity.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
54. A lot of people think they are representing Christianity
through the US military.

I'll bet the original letter writer does - as well as the aunt.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Christmas? What now? What is "Christmas"?
I've never heard of it.

Must be becasue the religion that believes in the holiday (or whatever it is) is so oppressed in this country...

I wish it could somehow get more exposure...



Do I even need to label this as :sarcasm: ?
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. Christmas? Is that still around?
I thought we secularists managed to quash that primitive ritual through hypocrisy and commercialization.

I prefer the Homestar Runner name for it: Decemberween
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. Just write her back with the Snopes stuff on this
It's true that the stamp is there, but really, read what Snopes has to say wbout the two celebrations it commemorates:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/eidstamp.asp
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Bah! I'm too slow!
:yoiks:
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
40. Thanks to Snopes for
clearing this up...that is if people bother to read about the stamp. Sad and outrageous to think that Muslims are the victims of prejudice in this country that claims to respect religions other than Christinity.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. Yes, but the strangest thing is how some of my Muslim friends ..
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 12:08 PM by Maat
voted for George Bush.

For the last seven years, I've been trying to persuade my good friend of 20 years that Dubya and his fam. are evil and corrupt.

She is a Muslim-American pediatrician (my kid's doctor), from Malaysia.

And yet she has a picture of Dubya, smiling, in the lobby of her office.

Oh, well, she is sweet and a good friend, and we just don't talk politics.
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buff2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. Since when is a postage stamp 34 cents?
:shrug:
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TrueAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. Why does the stamp cost 34 cents
When first class postage is 37 cents?
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timber84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Good Point
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. It's an old stamp. n/t
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
42. Go to Snopes.
They tell you all about the stamp. Previous poster gave you Snopes address. Great chance to get answers to the question.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
6. I swear that when some get older, their brain turns to mush.
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 10:38 AM by Maat
My hubby's parents have started to spout similar baloney.

They forwarded some mass email to my hubby that was racist and about the poor victims of Katrina.

My hubby thought of a good reply to that one.

Why do they send this stuff? 'Cause their brains are getting mushy, and, maybe you are correct, some hidden inner stuff is coming out.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
36. I don't the mushy brains are necessarily age induced. It's right
wing conditioning that causes the brains to turn to mush in anyone of any age...You make a good point though. They do spout baloney.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. It makes me nuts.
I've taken to assigning my husband communication duties with respect to fundie, nutty, 'Conservative Christian' relatives. He gives the 'what for,' and then has a nice, diplomatic family-topic-oriented conversation with them. He's much more calm.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. I have lost patience with the right wing nuts too. I wish I had a
diplomatic person as a go between for me. :D
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Take care! I hear you (n/t).
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DU me Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. Maybe you should list of few of the atrocities that the "Christian"
Americans have done to the Muslim world. Then follow with "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones"

I don't know just a thought.
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
8. Here's the Snopes entry...It gives some info that could be a fair rebuttal
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Maybe the O.P. (Original Poster) could just quote that in her email.
Along with some personal sentiments.

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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
9. REMEMBER the WHITE CHRISTIAN attack on the OKC Fed Bldg.!
REMEMBER the WHITE CHRISTIAN attack on the Atlanta Olympics!

Send THAT back to her.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
11. It was a white, Christian, Tim McVeigh, who bombed the Oklahoma
City Federal Building. Should I not buy Christmas stamps?
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
14. How about reminding her that
the Oklahoma City bombing was the work of a man raised as a Christian. Using her argument, shouldn't she be somehow to blame?
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
16. Ok, let's start with a few facts.
Muslims do, indeed, believe in Jesus. There is a whole chapter of the Qur'an named for Mary, Jesus's mother! Jesus's story is related in the Qur'an as well. The difference between Islam and Christianity is that Islam sees and honors Jesus as a Prophet of God-just as Mohammed is a Prophet of God. They do not see Jesus as God (but then the Methodist Church I grew up in didn't see Jesus as God, either!).

The stamp in question is for Eid-a celebration at the end of Ramadan, I believe. It is not a "Christmas" stamp, because the Islamic calendar is lunar, and their holidays vary from year to year. This year, for example, Ramadan happens in Sept/October, with the Eid celebration happening closer to Halloween than Christmas. (Check with people who are better Muslims than I am about the exact dates). When the stamp first came out, Ramadan happened closer to the Christmas season; for this reason only, I'd say that this email is several years old.

As for all the rest, ask her if she, being a Christian, is responsible for the sorrows in Northern Ireland, the murder of Lord Mountbattan, etc, etc. Following the logic of this email, any act perpetrated by a Christian or purported Christian group would be her responsibility.

In a side note, Mohammed Atta and others frequented strip clubs, drank alcohol, and, finally, murdered innocent people-all these things are against the teachings of Islam. To many, these people who called themselves Muslim were not practicing Islam at all.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
52. Exactly, Jesus is one of the holiest of muslim prophets
I believe that he is kinda like tied for 2nd with Abraham after Mohammed (for those keeping score at home, lol.)

I was talking with an old buddy of mine over the summer. He leans right but only because he's you're typically uninformed MSM sound bite educated suburban white guy. He didn't even know that Islam grew out of Judaism and shared the old testament.
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PsychoDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
56. You are right , Sister
Eid falls around the 3rd of november this year. (Ramadan around the 3rd or 4th of Oct) And yes, Jesus (peace be upon him) is a beloved prophet of Islam. Muslims believe in his virgin birth and in his return, what we don't accept is the idea of his divinity.

Muslims do not feel it is not right to honor one prophet over another, all are brothers and all brought the same message :) (But Moses still RAWKS!)

Peace and Ramadan Mubarak :)

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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. Maybe the NeoCons have chosen the Muslems for the "Ovens"..??
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Brewman_Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
18. You can ask her about these "good Christians"
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:11 AM by Lurking_Argyle
Jim Jones, James Dobson, Tim McVeigh, Eric Robert Rudolph, George W. Bush, The KKK, The Church of Jesus Christ-Christian, to name a few. You can also ask why she doesn't feel compelled to apologize for them, or are they good Christians, too? :shrug:

edit for spelling
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Democrat 4 Ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. A million thanks. I knew I could depend on you guys to help
formulate an answer. At the very least I'm betting I'll be off her email forwarding list. I should have addressed this six months ago when she started sending this junk.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. not to mention
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:19 AM by NewJeffCT
Rev. Sun Myung Moon, a litany of evils...
Rev. Pat Robertson, promotes slavery & attempted assassination
Ralph Reed, all around sleazebag
Randall Terry, abortion clinic bomber
Salem witch trials
Indian massacres in the Old West
The Spanish Inquisition
The IRA, differing versions of Christianity
The US Civil War was primarily Christian against Christian

edited to add on a bit more research - the Crusades. Read a story on how the Christians invaded Jerusalem in the 1100s and slaughtered every man, woman and child there to the point where they were knee deep in blood.


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Meatwad Donating Member (330 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #18
44. Some more things one could add...
is the, oh I don't know, The CRUSADES! How many people did the so-called Christians kill during the Crusades? How about the Salem Witch Trials?
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
19. I've seen this before (nt)
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jahyarain Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
20. you may also want to remind her
that white christians murdered, raped and stole to build this country.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
21. Snopes has the details on this garbage.
www.snopes.com/politics/religion/eidstamp.asp

Yes, the stamp was issued. But even GW Bush has attended Eid celebrations.

Can you try to teach her about Internet Spam? Is she aging & a bit lonely? Why don't you try sending her links that might open her mind? (Example: Muslims do venerate Jesus as the penultimate prophet. They just don't think he is God.)


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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #21
43. I swear some people quit educating
themselves after graduating from the 8th grade, young or old simply too lazy to read.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
22. Ask her how many Muslims were in power under Saddam Hussein
and how that ties in to terrorists BEFORE WE INVADED IRAQ?
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Montauk6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
23. If you REALLY wanted to start some s**t...
You could reply to all (cuz I'll guess there's a ton of addresses in the To or CC field) with the following

REMEMBER the CHRISTIAN bombing of the Murrah Bldg in Oklahoma!

REMEMBER the CHRISTIAN rape of untold numbers of boys and girls by Catholic priests.

REMEMBER the CHRISTIAN fatwa on the life of Hugo Chavez.

REMEMBER the CHRISTIAN bombing of the 16th St. Baptist Church in Birmingham, Ala killing 4 little girls.

REMEMBER the CHRISTIAN bombing of the Olympic Games in Atlanta.

REMEMBER the CHRISTIAN bombing of a marketplace in Dimapur, India killing 44 and injuring 118,

REMEMBER the CHRISTIAN bombing of a shopping area in Manchester, England in 1996.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
24. loved ones or not -- i'm not nice about that kind of hate.
and i treat them and ''it'' with all the disdain and outrage that i can muster.

remember all the first nations people here who suffered nightmarish treatment at the hands of good christians here.

and being christian myself -- if they spread that filth around me -- i let them know they are not christian.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
26. Hmmm... I don't think the stamp is honoring Muslim terrorists
Anymore than Xmas stamps are honoring Timothy McVeigh.....
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Waya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
27. Hmmm.....
Remember the CHRISTIAN Crusades
Remember the CHRISTIAN (Catholic) Inquisition
Remember the CHRISTIAN Genocide of Native Americans
Remember the CHRISTIAN (Catholic priests) Sex abuse scandals
Remember the CHRISTIAN bombing of the OK City Building
Remember the CHRISTIAN David Koresh in the Waco compound
Remember the CHRISTIAN Eric Rudolph and Atlanta
Remember the CHRISTIAN Boarding Schools for Native Americans


The list could go on and on.....

So, all Christians are bad, right?
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
29. lol - as if a "REMEMBER Christians killing killing killing" list can't be
made.

WHAT A FUCKING HYPOCRITICAL ASS HOLE MOTHER FUCKER it is that sent you that.

Fortunately that murderer who sent you that doesn't represent real Christians - I know some exist because I have met them. I wish it was a majority of Christians who were even moral, but alas it isn't so...
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
30. AGREE with her
tell her that you will boycott this stamp and refuse to buy it at the post office if she will do something symbolic you want as well.

it shouldn't be hard, see this is a 34 cent stamp, and they're 37 cents now. It's like asking someone to boycott Oldsmobile.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
31. Christian Hate -- it's as American as Apple Pie.
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
33. Reminder her that this stuff was started by the Christians a long time ago
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
34. i always send my brother to..TruthorFiction.com he quit sending..LINK>
http://www.truthorfiction.com

check it out it is really interesting
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
35. does she know Abraham raped a slave girl and the linage was Mohamed
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:24 AM by sam sarrha
I say raped because i dont think consenting sex is possible between a slave and a Master.

and then Mama Abraham fakes a pregnancy to keep that Whore Bitch from getting #1 position and sends her packing into the desert knocked up with a goat bladder full of water and a handful of dried goat yogert... Islam is such sweet Karma.

the two religions are Totally related by blood.. and the Schitzophrenia of hearing voices form god..!!!
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MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
37. Remember the MUSLIM bombing of the federal building in OKC?
Oh, wait...

Well, how about the MUSLIM Symbionese Liberation Army terrorism back in the '70's?

Oh, wait...

OK, how about the MUSLIM 1996 Olympic park bombing?

Oh, yeah... wait...

And that MUSLIM rash of abortion clinic bombings back in the '90's?

Damn...

Your aunt is a closed minded bigot. Simple as that. I say this with confidence because were she not a close-minded bigot, she wouldn't be wilfully spreading this racist propaganda. No offense intended, I just calls 'em as I sees 'em.

MojoXN
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
38. Use some of the good information from the other responses
Then pose the idle question of why she's sending on false witness against her neighbors? Remind her that's against one of the Big Ten she wants to post in all the federal buildings, and it would bolster her cause considerably if she would follow the decalogue instead of just wanting to post it everywhere. Jesus had several pertinent things to say about such folks, as did Jeremiah, Hosea, Micah and Isaiah.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
41. Ask her if some Christians
from Britian committed some action against some other county, would that country be justified in attacking the US being that the US is predominately Christian. It's my two birds with one stone approach.
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
45. Start pointing out all that America has
done wrong.. how many countries did we bombed? what was the religion of the Person in charge making that decision.

She'll get the idea once she sees the roots and truth of it.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
50. This is the sort of stuff
That makes me glad my elderly crazy right wingnut relatives don't know how to use the internets!
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PsychoDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
51. Eid al Fitr is not Christmas.
You can let her know that Christmas/Yule still belongs to the Christians and the Pagans they stole it from ;)

Eid, a three day celebration, come at the end of Ramadan and falls this year in the first week of november, for those interested.

Send your Aunt peace, from a muslim. :)
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
53. I'm tired of these Inquesitional fundies
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
55. The appropriate response: "You fell like a sucker for that?" Let them fume
Don't bother trying to refute it. Call the whole thing what it is, BS. If they dare come back citing any specifics, then take those on one by one, if you like. But the basic stance is to laugh at BS and BS'ers.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Yeah that
could work.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
58. Whatever polite reply you come up with....
the snopes link, for example, just remember to Reply-All on hateful shit like this. My mom used to include me on her group list with all kinds of medical scare stuff. A few snopes replies to the whole group, and I suddenly stopped getting em :)

Sid
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
59. You should tell here that a lot of Pagans are upset Christians stole their
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 01:36 PM by johnaries
Yule holiday along with many of it's traditions (christmas tree, yule log, mistletoe, gift-giving, etc), especially considering that Jesus was born in September, not Decemember.

They're not too happy about Ostara (Easter), either.
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