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ADD Med increases Suicidal Ideation. That's one helluva side effect, huh?

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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:16 AM
Original message
ADD Med increases Suicidal Ideation. That's one helluva side effect, huh?
Lilly to Add Warning to Strattera Label (AP) - INDIANAPOLIS-Eli Lilly and Co. said Thursday it will add a warning to its attention deficit medication Strattera that the drug could increase suicidal thoughts among youths.

http://news.findlaw.com/ap/f/66/09-29-2005/c7e1000f9a2c...
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Now THAT'S therapeutic!
They should run a promotional that gives you a free box of razor blades with every purchase.

Big Pharma needs the nits slapped offn' they heads.
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Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well, that does significantly reduce the symptoms of ADD

and focus the attention on something.

:sarcasm:
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. I read about this yesterday...
And it said like .4% (1 in 250) of children taking Strattera would experience suicidal thoughts. I wonder how that compares to the occurance of such thoughts in the general youth population. I tried to find studies, but I couldn't turn anything up for the US.
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Ravenseye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. I don't have numbers
but if they're releaseing that, then there must be a double blind study showing that the rate of experiencing these thoughts increases when on the drug rather than off it.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Hey, don't point out any logic to the "nah nah my kids are perfect" crowd
Those people in this thread bashing away at the 0.37% (1 in 270) chance of an issue of having these thoughts don't care about my child or anybody elses, they only care about bashing the pharmacudical companies for their own personal agenda. My child has been allowed to live a somewhat normal (mainstream educated) existence with ADHD medication, talk therapy and neurotherapy (brain wave training) and it's still an extremely difficult road to hoe for everyone involved.

A doctor on a morning show today said it best - "don't stop taking the medication - ask your child questions every day - work with your doctor - don't just give the child medication and forget it." I couldn't have said it better myself.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
29. "ask yr kid questions every day"
the bad thing abt that is you can plant ideas in ppl's minds, if you are constantly badgering yr kid w. questions abt his private thoughts & abt suicide, it seems to me just the questions themselves would inc. the chance of a bad outcome, it certainly would have in my case, i was not a believer in allowing parents to probe into my mind, to me this was like a rape & really worse than being physically fondled

it's a fine line to walk, be a good observer but always give yr child room to have her own thoughts & her own mind w.out feeling invaded
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #29
50. i am inadvertently laughing due to your post.
you are SOOOOOO right.

Yesterday a toddler in our 'hood freaked out & cried hard when our neighbor tested our "hurricane alert/come dig me out from under the house" whistle (it's a diver distress whistle and LOUD). My helful husband tried to soothe the child by telling her what a good friendly whistle it was--BECAUSE IT CALLS FOR HELP WHEN YOUR HOUSE FALLS DOWN ON YOU.

christalmighty. that's commforting.
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jedicord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Another reason to fight medicating children.
Something about "summer birthday boys" immediately set some teachers up ready for the ADHD argument.

I've been fighting the school since my son was in kindergarten. His grades are fine, but he drives some teachers crazy, though not as much as when he was young.

I wish the schools would train the teachers about how boys learn differently from girls, especially with regards to reading.

OK, off soap box.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Summer Bday boys? Really? So they really mean Geminis & Leo's...?
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jedicord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. Yeah, that's it.
You know us Leos, we're tough to take.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. big head big brain big personality big ego big roarrrrrrrrrrrrrr
(Scorpio, Leo rising.)
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Not so fast - my child is a girl.
Those people in this thread bashing away at the 0.37% (1 in 270) chance of an issue of having these thoughts don't care about my child or anybody elses, they only care about bashing the pharmacudical companies for their own personal agenda. My child has been allowed to live a somewhat normal (mainstream educated) existence with ADHD medication, talk therapy and neurotherapy (brain wave training) and it's still an extremely difficult road to hoe for everyone involved.

A doctor on a morning show today said it best - "don't stop taking the medication - ask your child questions every day - work with your doctor - don't just give the child medication and forget it." I couldn't have said it better myself.
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jedicord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #12
32. I'm not saying ADHD isn't real, or that medication is 100% bad.
It's that, IMO, ADHD/ADD medication is overused and over prescribed.

I have some friends whose children really need the medicine. My son doesn't, he's an intelligent boy who is bored at school.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. Yep, just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater...
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:00 AM by Mr_Spock
People who's children don't need it should be mindful of the people who do. If the medication we use (Concerta) were pulled from the market tomorrow, our family would suffer tremendously and it would be a major emergency for us. Personal experiences are fine but too many here think their child is representative of all children - yeah, and we're all blonds too! :(
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jedicord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. Exactly.
My heart goes out to your children, 'cause from what I understand children with ADD or ADHD have a very difficult time of it, and generally don't grow out of it.

A positive, though, is when school's over and their adult life begins, also from what I understand, they are most likely to become successful at whatever they choose to do - it's the drive.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #37
51. I Got Your Back Spock
I'm on an MS medication that has been proven conclusively to increase the rate of suicide in those patients. But, i'm aware of it. I take it knowing that, because (so far so good) the disease hasn't progressed since i went on it.

The notion that big pharma, despite their obvious warts, are all evil and that there are always aternatives to taking important meds offend me, just as it offended you apropos your daughter.
The Professor
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Thanks for your support
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:22 AM by Mr_Spock
Sometimes I read these threads and I get depressed - it's like people are stigmatizing those us us who have had to resort to meds ALL OVER AGAIN based solely on their hate of the big Pharmaceutical companies. Don't blame the DRUGS, blame the DRUG COMPANIES!!!

There are little chemist nerds (even in my own family) who are inventing these great drugs!!! Don't blame the engineers and chemists for what the marketers do once they get the product!!!!
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #52
58. Hey, Watch That Chemist Nerd Stuff!
LOL! My first graduate degree is in chemistry. I worked in R&D for a while, too! I prefer to think of myself as a math & science GEEK! Not a nerd.
The Professor
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. lol - I am from an extended family of "geeks" then
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:33 AM by Mr_Spock
We are the brains behind this operation - don't tell the Republicans :D
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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. I don't buy that
I've seen some pretty wild girls and some pretty quiet boys. LOL!

And what you said about my boy proves my point. Schools have no REAL clue what ADHD is. They see HYPER and think medication. To them the problem is the HYPER. But since their focus is suppose to be on EDUCATION, one would think the other would be more important to them. If they understood it, they could teach kids better. They would get better grades, etc.

I think it would have helped MORE if they didn't split it ADD and ADHD. The "H" means Hyper and it just compounds the AD.

Kids who are not Hyper get ignored by the school system. They don't recieve the help and attention they need. Because these kids don't cause "problems."

I have 2 ADHD kids and I'm always amazed at how little school administration knows and understands about ADHD. If they don't understand, how can they help/teach these kids? THEY CAN'T!

They don't understand that these kids mentaly think differently. It's not a BAD thing. And can be a postive if one knows how to work with it.

One year a teacher was sending my 3rd grade son home with over an hour worth of homework. Not all of it simple. For an ADHD child and at night, that equals to about 2 1/2 hours worth of work. Very frustrating for the child and family. I told the teacher I was limiting his homework to 30 minutes a day and for her to chose what should be left out. She refused. Ended up in a meeting with her, the school psyc, and the Principle. When I explained that the child they see during the day is much different then the child I had at night... they asked if the doctor knew about it and that the doctor should give him MORE MEDS! That was their first answer. I told them the truth. The doctor is aware of the situation, will not give more meds, and believes the school work should be completed during the SCHOOL HOURS.

One would think that PROFESSIONALS who are responsible for KIDS all day, would have some basic understanding of this problem.
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jedicord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #23
36. Not to stereotype, but I've heard "summer birthday boy"...
from too many teachers (and parents) to count. Immediate label on a child.

Thank goodness his second grade teacher saw my son for who he is - a kid who "marches to the beat of a different drummer", not a hyper kid. She really had some innovative ideas that have helped him throughout his school years (he's in seventh grade now). She also helped me to appreciate his personality. My cartoon character!

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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #36
46. What is "summer birthday boy" supposed to mean?
I have one, and I can't see what his birthday has to do with anything.
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MildyRules Donating Member (739 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
34. Can't you tell him
not to act up in school? Does he listen to you?
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jedicord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. Yeah, he listens to me, and his "hyper" behavior is no longer a problem.
Seriously, his first grade teacher got upset because he would scrape shoe scuff marks off the floor when she had them sitting in the hall waiting to go to recess. Inane stuff like that.
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MildyRules Donating Member (739 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. That is inane!
Glad he's doing fine now; or has more undertsanding teachers.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
5. So it helps you really focus on killing yourself. I'll take the ADD, thank
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 09:46 AM by 1932
you very much.

A long time ago, I read a story which I thought was in the New York Times Magazine, but could have been in a British paper, about how many of the kids who were shooting kids in high schools in the US were on medication (like Ritalin or Prozac) -- which, incidentally, was why it was happening in middle class schools in the US, where there was the perfect storm of health insurance and doctors pushing drugs.

I thought the article was going to precipitate a questioning of and then a rejection of the medication culture. Nope. I never heard another word about it, which, I guess is a reflection of the drug companies' grip on popular culture.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Maybe they'll put 'em on prozac to conter the ideation.
Then marinol to improve their appetites, then lumina or wtf for sleep.

CHRIST ON A CRACK PIPE.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Saving the lives of people in my family
Speak for yourself.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I gotcha--
not indicting prozac whatsoever. The pushing of meds meds meds is pervasive though.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. I am totally against the pushing of meds. Just don't throw out the baby
with the bathwater. People make such all-encompassing statements in threads like this - it drives people who need these meds into further despair - as if actually needing medication wasn't stigmatizing enough!!!
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Mine and my daughters life have been significantly improved
Those people in this thread bashing away at the 0.37% (1 in 270) chance of an issue of having these thoughts don't care about my child or anybody elses, they only care about bashing the pharmacudical companies for their own personal agenda. My child has been allowed to live a somewhat normal (mainstream educated) existence with ADHD medication, talk therapy and neurotherapy (brain wave training) and it's still an extremely difficult road to hoe for everyone involved.

A doctor on a morning show today said it best - "don't stop taking the medication - ask your child questions every day - work with your doctor - don't just give the child medication and forget it." I couldn't have said it better myself.

Prozac saved me from offing myself.

You keep reading articles, my families lives will continue to be saved by medications.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
47. I have the sense that prescribing mediciine isn't one of those things
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:24 AM by 1932
were you need to prescribe it to everyone to make sure that the people who really need it get it.

I think that doctors could do a good job of prescribing it to people for whom it's medically neccessary while also reducing the number of people for whom a prescription is the automatic, primary remedy.

I just talked to someone who came back from a medical conference in Mexico. This person siad that the pharmeceutical companies fund all the research there so everyone from Mexico was basically saying, "don't worry about X problem because there's a drug that's coming out for it."

The Americans were much more interested in behavioral and social/policy solutions in addition to medication. This person told me that if it weren't for the CDC, the situation in the US would be the same as Mexico because, apparently, the CDC just started funding research on non-pharmacological solutions to public health problems since they broadened their mandate beyond infectious diseases.
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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
42. You need to read post 35,
You need to read the last part. It isn't always the meds. Who you "are", what others "see you" as, and how people respond to you/you respond back.. it's all started at a young age.

Those kids you were mentioning that was on those drugs. Don't blame it all on the drugs. It was also said they were bullied alot in school. They were "social rejects."

These kids become social rejects at an early age. That DOES have an impact on a person. Taking meds isn't going to just change what they have LEARNED to expect from others.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #42
54. Many had gone off the drugs shortly before they killed.
IIRC.

I agree that taking the drugs could be a consequence of the problems that led to the the shootings rather than a cause. Also, the article only wrote about 4 or 5 shootings, so it was more anecdotal than analytical.

However, you have to admit that it raises questions that would be interesting to answer.

Of course, growing up middle class produces its own peculiar form of alienation. However, you have to wonder why poor kids without parents who have insurance, who are bullied and have miserable psychological histories, but (anecdotally speaking, in the case of the article I read) seem not to be going on Prozac for extended periods of time and then abruptly going off it, aren't shooting up their schools while the kids with health insurance the next town over are doing that.
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Ravenseye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
9. Maybe Tom Cruise is right?
Just kidding. He's a loon. Some kids need these drugs to function. I just think that WAY to many kids are overmedicated these days. I could care less what a teacher has to say or the school. My kids aren't ever going on these mind meds unless it's patently obvious there is no other way to modify their behavior.

I remember the South Park episode where everyone puts their kids on Ritalin and they all become so mellow, and Chef can't stand it, so he shows a video to the parents. The video shows a guy claiming he can stop ADD without drugs. Behind him are three kids hopping up and down at their school desks babbling.

He slaps the first one "SHUT UP AND STUDY!" and she does. He slaps the second one "SHUT UP AND STUDY!" and he starts crying. The third stops, the man looks at the kid, and he picks up his book and starts studying.

I don't condone slaping kids. I don't think that really works. What does work though is discipline. We all have been to the grocery store, or somewhere in public and seen parents with kids totally out of control. Parents who give in to whining, parents who tell their kid to not do something, the kid keeps donig it, the tell them again. The kid keeps doing it. Then they say "fine, I give up." Just watch one of those supernanny type shows to see what I mean.

It's hard being a parent. It's hard disciplining kids. It REALLY is sometimes. That doesn't mean physical punishment. It just means talking to your kids, and not letting them get away with murder. I just can't help but believe that these kids are on Ritalin because

a) They never had discipline growing up so they're spazzes
b) The teachers in this country have almost ZERO parental and district support. They can't discipline the kids, they can't force the kids, they can't do anything or the parents freak. So they resort to recomending ritalin to dope the kids up. (some do. and I don't blame them)
c) The bad parenting in this country would rather just dope up their kids then actually stand up to them.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. LOL - the more you discipline my ADHD child, the more they go off the deep
end. She is one who cannot function at all without the medication and, of course, lots of therapy and behavior modification. I wish discipline could retrain the brains of children who haven't the slightest idea how or why society functions no matter what you tell them or how you discipline them. There may be some who are as you describe, not any of the good families that I know of however.
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Ravenseye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. There are kids like your child
but most kids aren't ADHD. They weren't when we were kids, why are they now?

I'm not saying that there are no kids with ADHD, i'm just saying that the majority of them are just not disciplined, and the parents aren't doing their job.
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shrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Sounds like you agree with my niece's former teacher
She has ADHD. Took them awhile to find the right meds for her. Her teacher -- she was in private school -- told my sister that her own sister had ADHD and should have been "made" to pay attention. She suggested my sister forget about academics for her daughter and enroll her in a trade school.

Sis' response was to pull her out. The local public schools had a great team of teachers trained to deal with ADHD and they put my niece on a special program at first. My niece's doctor them prescribed Concerta, which worked wonders. She is now getting As and Bs, playing in the marching band, learning French and planning a trip to France with her class next year.

Don't mean to be snarky, but blanket statements are never a good thing.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. Thanks for posting another example of real people getting real results
My child also has almost the same great result from Concerta and a good bunch of people in public schools! She is doing all kinds of great extra-curricular activities and is able to stay out of the fights & meltdowns so she can get A's (she is very intelligent). I am so sick of people making blanket statements that are supposed to apply to everyones children. "Leave my family out of your bigotry please" I want to say to them.
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shrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #33
41. Yeah, my poor niece took a lot of grief
Being called lazy, a problem child. Was a tough situation for the whole family because my sister refused to give up on her -- she's the quintessential mama bear.

It makes me smile every time I hear of her progress.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. We struggled for YEARS before we decided to resort to medication
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:10 AM by Mr_Spock
We have been against meds from the beginning. It ended up being a small miracle for us. People who are ignorant of a persons situation just don't understand.
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shrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #44
56. Amen to that
And to make matters more interesting, Sis remarked to me that my niece's habits were startingly similar to mine. I researched ADHD thoroughly, realized I'd spent my life undiagnosed (it does run in families) and grudgingly made a doctor's appointment.

The doc, a psychiatrist, interviewed me for about 45 minutes and said I probably could benefit from medication. We tried Strattera first, and it did NOTHING. Then we tried Concerta, and I've been on it ever since.

Interesting "side effects" for this drug: in addition to much better focus and improved ability to follow conversations, I've been able to control two long-time problems.

I've always had a stammer, which is gone once I take the Strattera. I also have a severe nail-biting habit, one that I've been able to control with regular manicures and acrylic tips. Once I take Concerta the urge goes away. Late at night, when the drug begins to wear off, the urge reappears, though in a weakened form.

Have no idea what that means, but it is interesting.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. Bullshit. Total and complete speculation.
If you had ANY evidence of what you are saying (other than the heresay of a few people here and on TV) then I would listen. STOP trying to speak for people who have serious issues with their children!
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Ravenseye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #30
48. Whatever
If you can't see that saying that too many kids are medicated ISN'T saying that some kids NEED to be medicated...

well then just whatever.
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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
35. To modify their behavior? THAT is not what it's FOR!
And that is what causes all the myths about ADHD. People think it's a behavor modification problem.

It isn't.

It's a chemical problem that causes problem with attention and foucs.

The easy way to explain ADHD is trying to watch 100 TV's at the same time. Not flipping channels. But up at the same time and the eyes going back and forth. QUICKLY.

Your not gathering much about what is going on, on any one channel. Not able to devlop a full "thought" about each channel.

Now, consider a CHILD in that sort of situation. Their "TV's" that they are seeing may be "fun" things to do or check out.

Their mind "thoughts" are moving from one thing to another so quickly, that they react before the other human reflex kicks in.

The reason why we SHOULDN'T do certain things. Cause and Effect. In a child's case.. the deed is already done before the thought kicks in that they will be harmed/hurt someone/be punished, etc.

Since these kids are HUMAN and they really don't want to be bad. They feel the guilt afterwards. They feel STUPID for their actions.

When these thoughts and actions are done in the play ground, etc. People just see it as bad behavior. These kids are doing it because they WANT to or think they can get away with it. The kid just needs to be slapped around.

Let's put it in a different envirment. Say a CAR. Driving in a parking lot. The kid sees some one/thing, etc. He opens the door to get out.

It's the SAME behavior. The kid didn't do it to "get their own way." Or because their parents didn't teach them not to open doors in a moving auto. And he didn't do it because he "wasn't thinking." He did it because he was thinking to fast and reacting to his thoughts just as fast.

Not a made up exmple. Welcome to MY WORLD and what it means to be a parent of a ADHD child. It's scary. Not because they drive you crazy with misbehavior. But because you FEAR for their LIFE!

Now about that behavior. ADHD kids are generally socialy behind. They don't grasp alot of "social things." Their behavior pretty much causes adults and kids not to want the around. Imagine that, if you will. How would YOU feel? If your a small kid, your not going to understand WHY people don't like you. AFter awhile, you learn that no matter how hard you try, your going to fail to make people happy. They start rejecting people, before the people can reject them. ONce a kid is pegged as a "bad kid", for get it.

The children around them soon realize they can blame ANYTHING on the child and it will not be questioned. No longer is proof needed.

The social reasons that keep children/people behaving properly will no longer work in that situation. Spanking and so called other forms of punishment only proves to the child what a nothing they are.
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Ravenseye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #35
49. MY PROBLEM IS NOT WITH KIDS WITH ADHD
My problem is with kids who DONT have ADHD but are given these drugs anyway at the slightest sign of an issue.
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shrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #49
57. Proper testing can end that
Drugs of any kind are nothing to fool with and should only be given as a last resort. A good school system with trained professionals can give a battery of tests, interview the children, etc., before deciding to administer meds.
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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #49
61. It's isn't just about YOU. It's the general response to this kids by MOST
Ok, we have talked about the ADHD kids. Lets talk about the parents.

Parents of ADHD children have been accused of being bad parents from DAY ONE! People turn their back on them, because it's believed that the parents created the problem. Now must "live with it."

Parents of children with other types of disablitys are not treated that way. All because that people think it's JUST a BEHAVIORAL ISSUE. One that could be created if the parents just spank them.

While there is an understanding what Parents of disable kids go through. And people are more willing to step in and give such parents an hour or 2 break. You do NOT see that will the ADHD kids.

While people feel compasion for disable kids, they do NOT feel that way towards children with ADHD. Because they do not REALIZE how this effects the child and the child's family!

What the family does get, is lot of un asked for advice from family, friends and even STRANGERS. People who have NO CLUE what they are talking about. And if you try to educated these people on ADHD, they tell you that there is no such thing, blah, blah, blah.... And go right back giving advice like they are so smart.

That is reality my friend. We not only have to deal with ADHD in our lives on a daily bases. But we have to deal with critizism daily.

Yes, kids are being medicated that shouldn't be. And the reason is because of what the schools FOCUS on. It's the hyper. It's the behavior that everyone complains about. It's the REAL FACTS about ADHD that people don't want to learn about.

Griping about to many kids on the meds just encourages those who think this is JUST a behavior issue and that ADHD is a lie. That Lie does effect those who do have ADHD and their familys.
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
10. My nephew took Strattera for a week
and told us it gave him rage.

He was switched over right away to Adderal, and it worked better for him.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
16. ya especially since the ones thinking suicide the teenagers
are the ones sittin in add medication. world hard enough for kids as it is. demands from any, all every angle. death death death, fear fear fear.... then missing the foundation of family yada yada

just dont get the people that say, to be a kid again. no worries. wtf i say

yup
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
17. Tom Cruise WAS right!
My childs ADHD was helped immensely by a change in diet and adding vitamin supplements-EXACTLY what Tom Cruise was talking about. People shouldn't knock it until they've tried it!

Adults and children in this country are being over medicated and that's a fact. Everyone wants a "quick fix" and more often than not, as this shows, it can lead to worse side effects than the original problem.



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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Just because it worked for you!!??
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 10:09 AM by Mr_Spock
We tried vitamins, therapy, neurotherapy, diet, allergies, everything you can possibly think of. My child would have been kicked into a special educational environment if it wasn't for Concerta. It has been like a MIRACLE for her. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about - everyone thinks their personal experience should speak for everyone - you would DESTROY MY CHILD'S LIFE just to make you feel better?? Makes me wonder how compassionate liberals really are sometimes.

Those people in this thread bashing away at the 0.37% (1 in 270) chance of an issue of having these thoughts don't care about my child or anybody else's, they only care about bashing the pharmaceutical companies for their own personal agenda. My child has been allowed to live a somewhat normal (mainstream educated) existence with ADHD medication, talk therapy and neurotherapy (brain wave training) and it's still an extremely difficult road to hoe for everyone involved.

A doctor on a morning show today said it best - "don't stop taking the medication - ask your child questions every day - work with your doctor - don't just give the child medication and forget it." I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
45. I LOVE to bash the Pharmaceutical Industry...
But it's obvious that some kids (& grownups) need a bit of chemical help. Especially as part of a well-designed treatment program, like your kid's.

Folklore says lots of teachers recommend medication for any behavioral difference. Would any decent parent blindly follow these directions without serious medical consultation & trying alternate methods?

Isn't regular communication with your children a good idea for any parent?

Your daughter seems to be in good hands.

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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #19
53. So you think YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE is the way to go....
how is that ANY different than my position that drugs are over prescribed and not always necessary?! I never said "never" take prescription drugs. :eyes:

FYI-I'm not trying to "hurt" your child! That is TOTALLY insulting! If what you are doing works, go for it. Though I wonder just how long you tried the diet changes...? Because it takes a while to see results and since most people want a quick fix they give up after a short time.

That being said, all I'm trying to do is show people that what the medical industry and pharma giants PUSH on all of us isn't the always the best and more often than not serves them and their BOTTOM LINE more than the publics best interests. People should be aware of the ulterior motives of the medical field and pharma giants since they are first and foremost BUSINESSES and huge ones at that. :grr:

If sharing my childs experience helps even one child-that's enough for me.

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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. I hate the Pharmaceutical companies as much as the next person.
Sometimes I read these threads and I get depressed - it's like people are stigmatizing those us us who have had to resort to meds ALL OVER AGAIN based solely on their hate of the big Pharmaceutical companies. Don't blame the DRUGS, blame the DRUG COMPANIES!!!

There are little chemist nerds (even in my own family) who are inventing these great drugs!!! Don't blame the engineers and chemists for what the marketers do once they get the product!!!!
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julialnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Tom Cruise was NOT right
He threw out a generalization where every individual has a different case.

I am an adult on adhd meds (28 years old).I have severe dysgraphia. When I read my eye had a hard time keeping in line.I used to write back wards and double word in my writing (I'd write "and the the" instead "of and the").When I was younger I went to soooo many specialists and felt very discouraged and thought I was just stupid. It took me until the end of high school for my parents to cave in and try meds (they were against it) and it made all the difference in my life. I went on it right before I went to college and can't believe how it helped.Although adhd is not technically what I have they prescribe the same medication and it works (sorta straightens my eye out...... I can read within the lines and I don't confuse words or double spell..... the computer age helps too for many people with my problem....my docs had me on computers before they were being widely used in school).

Now I know doctors waaaaaayyyyy over prescribe, but that doesn't mean that there are many whose lives are vastly improved by them.

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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #21
59. I never said never about prescription drugs.
Glad they worked for you.

But they don't work for everyone and given the side effects can often be worse. The pharma giants don't want people to know that a change in diet and adding supplements can help because it would be bad for their billion (or is it trillion?) dollar business.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. tc coincidentally mentioed an obvious starting point. Good on ya.
just don't take his Marriage Counseling course, 'kay?
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
40. I'm not a scientologist....so that's doubtful. :) nt
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
27. isn't that the case for any amphetamine-like drug
it should be up to the parent, the doctor, & the child to decide if the risk is worth it & to monitor the situation for violent thoughts or acts

the warning is prob. good to know but i wouldn't have thought it to be anything that startlingly new, to anyone who has ever played w. such drugs recreationally & noticed the range of possible reactions ppl can have

not that i advise taking strattera or ritalin recreationally & it certainly isn't for an already rather crusty person like me but we all know it happens & there are lessons to be learned from observing how a simple chemical can affect one's mood
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julialnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. that should be a sign on whether or not it works for your child
For children who have add the drugs make them more docile (it acts like the opposite as it would to other people)
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Meatwad Donating Member (330 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
62. I never had those thoughts on Strattera.
But I guess it works differently for some. :shrug:
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