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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:25 AM
Original message
DEAD!
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 06:27 AM by trumad

Airman 1st Class Elizabeth Jacobson (center, posing with her grandparents) is the area's ninth casualty in the Iraq war.



http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/local_news/ep...
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. I would change that title.
It's sort of disrespectful.
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Obamarama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. It's NOT disrespectful.
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 06:38 AM by KzooDem
I think what Trumad is trying to drive home is the rage and anger that yet another young American has been killed because of George Bush's folly.

You apparently didn't get the memo that Pollyannaism is not a viable form of dissent.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. "Pollyannism"...
JEEZ!! Could you WARN a person first thing in the morning?? I just blew coffee all over my keyboard.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
33. There are more tactful ways to send the same message.
I'm sure you wouldn't be thrilled to see your daughter under such a crass headline.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. Perhaps
having one's daughter killed in such a manner is the real issue. America needs to come to terms with the fact that this young lady is dead. While I do understand and appreciate your point, in this case I think the OP was on target.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #39
54. And for what "noble cause?"
So very sad...
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #39
120. Lots of young lady's are dead thanks to Bush
Mothers, sisters, cousin's, best friends, girlfriends, wives. Same with the men. And when was the last time it was told on national news about them dying? I remember in the beginning on MSNBC they used to show who died (brief picture and their role in the military) and after a while they just stopped. It's like everyone in the media has forgotten about them and those in Afghainstan.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
110. DEAD! - For Bush's Lies
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Talismom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Idisagree that it's disrespectful. It's stark and honest about a painful
reality. If our country's policy was anywhere near as honest we would have been outta there long ago or wouldn't have even gotten in!
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
34. There are more tactful ways.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. I'd expect nothing less from the guy
for better or for worse
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #34
43. Yes, and less direct ways, too.
I'm not offended, personally.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. I'm not really offended, per se.
I just think there are classier ways to do things. I don't disapprove of his message, just the method being used to send it. On one hand, you say you care about the troops being killed, but on the other, you're not being completely considerate of the consequences of the death of the individual troop. There has to be a better way.
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jayctravis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #34
53. Lower case with a period instead of an exclamation mark.
Oklahoma. Instead of OKLAHOMA!
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. Even that's miles better.
At least it doesn't sensationalize it.
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Catamount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #34
77. No Offense--but I think you missed the point! n/t
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. I didn't miss any points.
For fuck's sake, did you even read my posts? Any of them?
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #34
78. The truth about war is brutal
Candycoating the truth, is not only dishonest, it's disrespectful of those who DIED in the war.

Scrubbing and santizing the war, is very disrespectful of the vets.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. Not sensationalizing and candy coating are two entirely different things.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #79
89. Saying she's dead is sensationalizing?
What is the difference between saying, KILLED IN ACTION and DEAD?

She didn't just pass away, peacefully, due to old age, she was KILLED in the war. To speak the truth, is not sensationalizing.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #89
91. No, saying "DEAD!" is sensationalizing. "Dead" would even be a step up.
I can't believe you don't see the distinction.
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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #91
99. You are quibbling over words--the bottom line remains unchanged.
While you have stated several suggestions would be a "step up" you have not suggested what you would think is appropriate since you find this title so inappropriate.

What, since you are SO offended, would be the PERFECT headline for this thread?
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #99
102. "Another soldier killed" would be a suitable choice
Even "Soldier dead". Pretty much anything without the sensationalization that goes along with screaming it out with all capital letters and exclamation points. Yellow journalism has never been described as being noble.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #91
111. "DEAD!" is sensationalizing? Your questioning proper paraphrasing?
1931 DEAD! for some sort of noble cause...?!?!?
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #111
124. Are you just trying to irk me?
Or do you really not understand what I mean?
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coyote Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
112. I believe in substance over form...truth hurts. NT
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Really?
It is the simple, unvarnished truth. I don't think it is disrespectful, only blunt. She is dead.

I think that the really disrespectful thing is the lie that got her there.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #9
36. Blunt doesn't help her parents and friends.
There are more tactful ways to get a message across.
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Talismom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
65. I totally agree renie408. One can disagree on issues of taste, but
I think it's more important to respect the right of the poster to express him/herself as per their own taste and choice.

In fact, if my child did die this way, I would find such honesty to validate my anger and to be soothing because of the support it expressed!
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #65
72. Can you really not understand that others might not share you POV?
Just because YOU would find it soothing, is it so much of a leap of faith to believe someone else might not? And wouldn't it be up to that person to express themselves in such a manner?
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #72
81. I think it fine for you to disagree with how this young ladies
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 10:56 AM by olafvikingr
death is expressed, but I am not sure I am following your logic for disagreeing with it.

You talk about those who may disagree with this form of expression and have a different point of view. You go on to say:

"Just because YOU would find it soothing, is it so much of a leap of faith to believe someone else might not? And wouldn't it be up to that person to express themselves in such a manner"?

Is it not up to the original poster to choose how he or she wants to express their message? You seem to have a bit of double think going on. Should we then quash anyones right to expression because it is too "harsh" even if true? Should we, following that logic, not show the American public the harsh realities of this war? No abuse photos? No investigations? No coffins? No crosses? All these things are symbols for one clear hard fact. This war causes people like this and many others to be DEAD. That might be unseemly. This is a war. She died. It is not an insult to call a dead person dead (I think I heard that in a movie). The initial title brings that fact in clear, with a blunt hard smack.

I can assure you, this poor girls family has lost their daughter, grandaughter, sister pehaps, no matter which way it is brought to light. THAT death is their pain; their reality. Now if you walked up to the grieving family with a sign on your chest that said "DEAD!" that is also your freedom of speech. You simply have to be prepared for the consequences of your actions, be they positive or negative. You might get a handshake, you might get a sucking chest wound.

Olaf

P.S. Not trying to attack you. Just trying to make a point and encourage some open dialogue. See what the title got us? Open dialogue.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. No, you're misunderstanding.
"That person" means the person who's lost a loved one, not anyone else. As an extremely simplified version, if someone who is overweight refers to themselves as a "fatass", that's his or her choice, but it's rude and tactless for someone else to do it without knowing how that would make the person feel.
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Talismom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #72
98. Of course I can. But I put my two cents in because it didn't seem that
you could respect the right of the writer to see things differently than you. Out of respect for another's point of view I would think twice about presuming to correct them or call their wording insensitive. Your posting is actually where the value judgements began being presented and I simply pointed out that not everyone objected to the way the original post was written or found it as lacking as you did.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #98
104. You're prioritizing things backwards.
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:35 AM by Vash the Stampede
I should be more sensitive to someone who is completely detached from the situation than to someone who's lost a child to war? I'm sorry, but to me, that's kind of fucked up.
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Talismom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. And I respect your right to your own opinion, while I think that it's
presumptuous for you to assume that you know better than the writer.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #105
122. I give up.
Common decency has all of a sudden become presumptuous.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
68. Right. People shouldn't hate the messenger because the news is bad. n/t
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #68
73. I don't hate the messenger at all.
I don't even hate the message. I just hate the way the message is being sent.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #73
86. I hate the message. I hate it when they die. It's bad. Their deaths do
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:00 AM by Jamastiene
deserve not only a ! after the word DEAD but it needs to be in bold too, imo. They died. Dead is dead. Splitting hairs over it isn't going to make it any easier on their families nor is it going to bring them back, sadly.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #86
88. Well I find that quite insensitive.
No, it's not going to bring them back, but they don't need the death of their daughter sensationalized. If THEY want to sensationalize, make that statement, or anything else, THEY can. Cindy Sheehan is a good example of this. But it's insensitive and disingenuous for others to do it. There is absolutely, positively no reason whatsoever that we can't send the same message in a respectful and decent manner. NONE.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #88
90. You ARE splitting hairs here. It's not insensitive to say the truth. The
truth is just that; the truth. And the truth is it's a damned shame they are dying. Period.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #90
92. If it's splitting hairs to imagine how a parent might feel seeing that
Then yeah, I'm splitting hairs, and I frankly don't give a fuck.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #92
95. Then why are you arguing so much about it if you don't give
a fuck. Glad you decided to be frank.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #95
100. Once again, you fail to understand what I said.
I said I don't give a fuck about splitting hairs.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #100
106. Why then are you doing it. Can't we both just agree to say RIP
in regards to the young lady that died or is RIP wrong too. I mean should it be rip or what?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #106
123. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #123
126. Who is being a jerk, did you say? And I believe you know what
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 12:55 PM by Jamastiene
the point is too. YOu didn't answer my question. Considering the fact that you see such a big difference between DEAD and dead! Which is good enough for you? RIP or rip? Or is that disrespectful too? You are just being stubborn here. Get over your lost argument.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
84. Odd. So may people don't like to use
the word dead. I suppose it is because the word is so 'final'. Deceased, passed on, gone to heaven seems to indicates that death is not 'final'.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #84
87. I don't even object to the word "dead".
I object to "DEAD!" I find it insensitive to sensationalize it like that.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. Yea we wouldn't want any kids considering enlisting to think about death
Might make the smarter ones hesitant to enlist by mentioning that death may be the end result of their decision. Can't have any of that.

Don
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #15
37. There are more tactful ways.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
96. Heaven forbid they hear the truth ahead of time. n/t
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. how?
She is dead! Dead is DEAD.

RIP... :(
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #17
31. Okay, but "DEAD!" is a bit too blunt.
There are better ways to say it without being so crass. This woman does have a family and friends, after all. I'm sure they wouldn't be too thrilled seeing their daughter under a headline like that.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
44. NOT ALIVE!
NO PULSE!

IN A BOX!
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. If we saw those words about Andy Stephenson,
what would your reaction be?
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. my reaction - none
he's dead.

at most, my ire might be raised, since it wouLd remind that some dicks most LikeLy had a part in his death, but i don't consider that a bad thing.

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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. Surely you can at least understand why some others might not feel that way
I'm quite certain you don't lack human empathy.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #51
56. i do have empathy
to not ackowLedge that the dead are dead, is not empathy.

to acknowLedge that the person has moved onto a better pLace of poppies and LiLacs, is mispLaced empathy.

if this upsets peopLe, good; it shouLd. peopLe are dying, and their bLood is on bushco's hands.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. When did "DEAD!!" become the only way to acknowledge death?
I'm sorry, I must have missed that memo. :shrug:
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #57
62. no one said it was
i Listed a bunch of ways up above.
you didn't Like those either. :shrug:
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #57
64. When did "DEAD!" become an inappropriate way to express death? n/t
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. When your daughter dies, I'll be sure to post that headline.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #66
69. i didn't know that was your daughter
my condoLences.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. It's SOMEONE'S daughter for christ's sake.
You say you care about troops dying, but don't you care about the individual troop or his/her family? Is it really that much to ask to just not sensationalize a person's death? I'm not asking to shove it under a rug by any means, but we don't need to be giving it the New York Post yellow journalism treatment either.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #71
74. ok
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #71
115. Agreed Vash
What did Donahue say about being louder and not always being right?
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #44
85. Some peope believe in life
after death. Not alive?
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AnotherMother4Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
61. The Iraq war continues because they hide the dead & maimed.
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 09:23 AM by AnotherMother4Peace
Torture continues because they lie & hide the evidence.

Bless this young lady, & bless her family. May their God help them find peace.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #61
67. Can you not expose and be tactful at the same time?
Do we have no sense of class or decency at all?
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
113. Well, since it's NOT YOUR THREAD who cares?
She's DEAD.

Get it? DEAD.

Understand? DEAD.

DEAD. DEAD. DEAD.

and being what you deem "tactful" will not change the fact that she is DEAD.

DEAD.

and it's bush's fault...

RL
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #113
125. Forgive me for expecting decency and compassion from fellow liberals.
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #125
127. No
RL
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #127
128. Then I won't forgive you for being indecent and heartless.
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #128
129. I Didn't ask...
:hi:

RL
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shaniqua6392 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. God bless her family. *Tears*
We hate you George W. Bush. You are going to pay for this eventually.
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farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
3. God Bless, Elizabeth...She has slipped the surly bonds of earth...
High Flight

by John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth,
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds...and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of...wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air.
Up, up, the long, delirious burning blue
I've topped the windswept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, nor even eagle flew.
And while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space...
...put out my hand, and touched the face of God
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. Oh man...this one hits me hard...
Such a beautiful young woman. Man...I don't know what to say.

I hate this war.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. RIP
each death due to this war is tragic. The loss felt by the families immense.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
6. How heartbreaking.
We lost someone last week. He was a handsome, young guy who was a member of a nearby police department. This is sickening.
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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
11. DEAD is the right title for the post.
Call a spade a spade. And the loss of this beautiful
young woman is what is disrespectful.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
12. RIP Elizabeth
terrible
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AlamoDemoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
13. I think we need to put a face out in the open
seeing a picture of a person can you only appreciate a life lost. Television thought us a character lost ...and we weep the characters we have known from the past.
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DIKB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
14. RIP
The blood of the young pays the price for the lies,
told by old men with power and self righteousness.

Damn you Bush. May you and yours burn for eternity in a hell far worse than I can ever imagine.
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T Town Jake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
16. Damn, but isn't that heartbreaking...
...this horseshit is spinning out of control, and, fuck almighty, I don't know what to say. Some of our best, and brightest, are being consumed in the furnace of this idiotic futility.


RIP, Airman Jacobson.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
18. What might Elizabeth have become?
She already proved her willingness to sacrifice for her country; what else might she have done to help mankind? We will never know, as it is with every life lost due to greed and warmongering.

The title of this thread is absolutely all that needs to be stated.

No more hope or promise for yet another....
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The Witch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
19. may she find peace
:cry:
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
20. My condolences to her friends and family.
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WePurrsevere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
21. Shedding tears for a life so full of dreams & hope, ended to soon...
for a "war" based on LIES, chosen and "ixed" by a TRAITOROUS pResident for greed & revenge.

They all hit so damn hard but this lovely young woman is more so... my youngest daughter is her age and from the write up very similar to Elizabeth... except, thankfully, there's no way she (or her sister) would ever join the military (willingly).

Dammit this whole thing is so very VERY wrong. :cry: :nuke: :cry:

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pointblank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
22. All I feel is anger. nt
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
23. She no longer has to suffer the obligations of an immoral war....
.... Lovely young woman..... this is a shameful waste!
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
24. What a beautiful young woman.
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 07:37 AM by tenshi816
Look at the sparkle and mischief in her eyes, gone forever now. What a tragic, senseless loss.

Edited to say that yes, she is now DEAD. Not "passed away" or "passed on" or "no longer with us". She is DEAD. Maybe when people start using that word instead of euphemisms, it might start to penetrate the consciousness of some of the war cheerleaders.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
25. Here is an article about her death...
:(

South Fla. Woman Killed By Roadside Bomb In Iraq

POSTED: 6:35 am EDT September 30, 2005

RIVIERA BEACH, Fla. -- Air Force Airman 1st Class Elizabeth N. Jacobson had her life planned for when she returned to Florida from Iraq, including a career in law enforcement and two sons she someday wanted to have.

In an e-mail to friends and family, she wrote, "I want to die happy, and have a productive life. I hope nobody wishes I was never born. I hope my kids never tell me they wish I were like their friend's mom. I hope that I make money, but don't end up a workaholic or stuck up."

Jacobson, 21, was killed Wednesday in Iraq when a bomb exploded near her vehicle in southern Iraq, according to the Department of Defense. She was assigned to the 17th Security Forces Squadron, Goodfellow Air Force Base, Texas.

"She loved what she was doing and she loved to be able to say that people should give her respect because without her and those like her we wouldn't be free. She stood up for her beliefs and made everyone around her be aware of them," said her grandmother, Sondra Millman-Cosimano of Riviera Beach.

Jacobson attended Palm Beach Gardens and Gold Coast high schools while living with her grandparents in Florida. She left to live with her mother in Madera, Calif., but later returned to Riviera Beach looking for work.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/5039869/detail.html
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
26. a girl from the neighborhood
just a few miles down the road from where we live-sad-senseless and a damn shame.No wonder George is drinking again-letting all these people talk him into doing this war thing.Or-was it HIM that wanted it?I tend to believe the first one.He's a pawn-a figurehead with no true moral compass IMO-sad-for US
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
27. Twenty-one years old. Jesus Christ.
My condolences to her family.
:cry:

Rot in Hell, GWB!
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drduffy Donating Member (739 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
28. i feel so sad
for her and her family, for all the families. I started to cry as I thought of all the children whose lives have been ended by the piece of trash in the whitehouse and the neocons. As I thought of my own twelve year old son who will be potential cannon fodder in just a few years. Is there nothing we can do to end this?
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
29. BUSH!
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 08:02 AM by Misunderestimator
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i_c_a_White_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
30. Just "fodder" to the Republican psychopaths
These people who send these young men and woman to die for something they would not die for
R.I.P. ;(
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
32. how very sad.
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all.of.me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
35. i bet those grandparents are devastated.
my thoughts are with them and their family.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
38. It's an outrage


that the repubs are complicit in destroying a beautiful young life like this. And then you consider she is just one of oh so many ......


They are war criminals. That whole damn Bushco administration.


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Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
40. And how many more will fall.......
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 08:47 AM by Alamom
Peace to her family and friends. It will be a long time before they find solace if they ever do.

Parents should not have to see their children die. It is not suppose to be this way and for a lie....



A Look at U.S. Military Deaths in Iraq


Sep 29, 8:23 PM (ET)

By The Associated Press

As of Thursday, Sept. 29, 2005, at least 1,933 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count. At least 1,499 died as a result of hostile action, according to the military's numbers. The figures include five military civilians.

The British military has reported 96 deaths; Italy, 26; Ukraine, 18; Poland, 17; Bulgaria, 13; Spain, 11; Slovakia, three; El Salvador, Estonia, Thailand and the Netherlands, two each; and Denmark, Hungary, Kazakhstan and Latvia one death each.

Since May 1, 2003, when President Bush declared that major combat operations in Iraq had ended, 1,794 U.S. military members have died, according to AP's count. That includes at least 1,385 deaths resulting from hostile action, according to the military's numbers.

---

The latest deaths reported by the military:

- Five soldiers were killed Wednesday in a roadside bombing in Ramadi.





http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050930/D8CU8BBG2.htm...


edit:typo
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
41. 180 DEAD in the last 4 days ...
that must mean we're finally seeing some real progress in Iraq ...

why the hell do we allow this to happen to our young people??
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KenCarson Donating Member (170 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
45. Rest In Peace, Ms.Jacobson
.
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Stockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
48. The sad part is not that she is dead
She was a soldier, the sad part is what noble cause did she die for?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #48
55. It is sad
that she is dead. Yes, she was a soldier. However, she was also a daughter, granddaughter, and a wide range of other things to her entire extended family; she was a student who went to a school and was friends with numerous other people; she was a stranger who did random acts of kindness for strangers; she was also the seed of potential for the future of this nation, who may have had any number of careers and interpersonal relationships. Far more than a soldier died.
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
50. Sugar coating this disgusting war is the problem...
But i guess posting this on DU is like preaching to the choir.

People who are passionately against the war and disgusted by it are reacting to it the only way they can. Were this same "shock and awe" tactic used in the MSM or somewhere all the dummies that passively endorse the war by doing nothing (and voting Repug) could see it folks here would be on board, I think.

However, we here have all been traumitized by the murderous, profane and pointless waste of lives, so some are reacting in accordance with that. But, part of DU- at least for me- is therapy and sometimes we all need to vent our outrage.

My opinion.
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
52. More innocent blood on Bush/Cheney/et al hands......
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
59. Rest in Peace, Elizabeth.
:cry:

I will give my niece this article. She is considering signing on with the Navy to retire her college debts which is apparently what Elizabeth did. "She belonged to the Fresno Playhouse and won a writing contest on Poetry.com before enlisting in the Air Force to serve her country and pay for college, her grandmother said." My niece thinks that the Navy is a safe branch of service to join. I wonder if Elizabeth thought the same thing about the Air Force? Damned recruiters. :cry:
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #59
63. Another life lost...
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Rest in Peace.

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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #59
107. Tell your niece ......



that in the Navy it's the Supply, Medical and Clerical specialties that are most likely to have women serve on shore duty in the Gulf region for the Navy.


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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #107
119. She is a nurse.
:scared: I have warned her - told her to think about the depleted uranium and the risk to her health.

The quick buck is an incentive that the recruiters use to the military's advantage and to the disadvantage of our youth. :cry:

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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
60. Bummer
She looks like she was a good kid :(
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
70. she joined the Airforce
you'd think they'd have the least chance of being killed by a roadside bomb. what a mess. and a loss.

Except for the Hunter and Austin thing, of course. that's just unforgivably tacky.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #70
134. I believe she is the FIRST USAF female death in Iraq n/t
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
75. Death is a part of life and unfortunately
a part of war. My thoughts and prayers go to her family, they must be grief stricken. I read the article and all I could think is that the world is minus 1 Beautiful person. Her words were so full of hope and love and she only lived a short time in this life.

This only puts more of a face on the tragedy of this war and why it is so important to get our troops out of there.


My son goes in November and I hope I never have to see his picture posted here...
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Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
76. "WASTED!" is more sensitive and also hits home hard. PEACE. n/t
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #76
118. As a mother, my heart aches for her parents.
Kralizec, no way, if I'd seen "wasted" as the title, I'd have thought she was drunk. Have Some respect.

What annoys me is pussy-footing around an issue. When I die I'll be DEAD. Not passed away, passed on, gone to sleep, gone to a better place, departed; nor any of the inappropriate terms my sense of black humour would have me type out; just plain dead.
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Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #118
132. Perhaps, "What a Waste" is what I should have put. (eom)
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Meatwad Donating Member (330 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
82. That is so sad.
And what did she die for?

:( :cry:
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dretceterini Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #82
94. This is silly...
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:10 AM by dretceterini
What should have the title of the thread been....body bag lizzie?
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #94
101. ??? Just seems like some people don't want to look directly into the
truth about war. People die. Dead is dead...
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
93. Bummer.

A Poem That I Wrote In A High Fever

You who are lengthening your lives
with the best doctors and the best medicines
remember those who are shortening their lives
with the wars
that you in your long lives are not
preventing.

You who are again screwing
the younger generations
and winking at each other
the winking of your eyelids
is like the chill of the swinging shutters
in an empty house.


-- Yehuda Amichai





RIP

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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
97. Damn I thought the Air Force was the "safe" branch
Guess nothing is safe with Iraq being such a quagmire. And the 2nd pic really freaks me out - just cause she looks like a girl I went out with in school. Thank god it's not her.
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Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
103. R.I.P. nt
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
108. SHE DID NOT DIE FOR A NOBLE CAUSE -SHE DIED FOR BUSH'S LIES...!
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT.
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toymachines Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
109. a damned travesty
WHY!!!!
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
114. As a former A1C, SrA, and Sgt. in the USAF, I cannot describe the
gut-wrenching feelings that I go through when I see something like this.

Yes, ALL the deaths and maimings in this terrible and pointless invasion are painful, especially knowing that Bin Laden is free, and going to remain so.

NOTE: I have never been in combat (nor would I wish to be, but had I been called, I would have gone), the closest I ever came was being notified that if Gulf War I had dragged on for six more months, I would be reactivated.

But I am a human being, and it hits so much worse when it's "closer to home".

I remember, in the pre-Internet days, when in Gulf War I that SCUD hit the USAF chow hall, killing 200+ mostly enlisted crew chiefs, techs, and people just having some Midnight Chow.

I remember frantically calling as many of my pals who I still kept contact with, asking if there was anyone we knew, going to the library to read the national newspapers on the sticks they used to have, just looking for a damned comprehensive casualty list.

How happy I was when I finally confirmed nobody I knew had died. And the underpinning of guilty sorrow when I thought about how each one of those people were somebody's buddy, somebody's husband, wife, father, mother, son daughter, friend.

That poor, brave kid, so damned young. It is not that she died. She was a patriot and a soldier. In truth, though it scares the crap out of you, you know it's a profession like cop or fireman, that you make be called on to make the supreme sacrifice.

But that sacrifice should be for SOMETHING, and NOT to enrich the coffers of the Imperial Bush Family and their disgusting cronies! God damn their wretched tyrannical Bushevik souls to hell for what they have done.

If she had died aiding the hunt for Former? Bush Emplyoee Bin Laden, then at least it would have meant something... avenging 9-11 and helping to deter another.

But Bin Laden is free and is going to remain free, as long as the Busheviks are in charge, and this patriotic woman with her whole life ahead of her is dead for a disgusting lie. She died for the most criminal and odious enterprise to ever clamp it's vampiric teeth into the neck of America...The Bush Crime Family.

Trumad is ex-military, too, so forgive him is anger and rage at the pointless death of a fellow comrade, exposed in his perhaps insensitive thread title.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
116. Freedom isn't free, but dead is dead.
Dead is dead. That's what I tell people who have the gall to say "freedom isn't free."

It is a startling headline. Perhaps "HOMICIDE" would be more appropriate. Is there a word for being responsible for killing the citizens of your country? Something besides genocide? Patriotcide? I don't know. bush is guilty of plenty, and he's guilty of this young woman's death, too.
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spuddonna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
117. My heart goes out to her family...
Their hearts must be breaking...

She was so young... what a loss...
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
121. Poor kid
:cry:
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AirmensMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
130. OMG, I'm dizzy from reading this.
Way too close to home. What a beautiful young woman ... what a terrible tragedy! I am not offended by the title of the thread. I'm offended that * insists on murdering so many of our kids and ripping the hearts out of their families. This one brings it home to me like nothing else. I can hardly see straight from the anger and fear. Anger that it happend for NOTHING, that * is so evil that he's happy killing other people's children for his sick power trip. Fear that it could easily be my daughter or son-in-law. I am more afraid now than ever. It doesn't make sense, but this one is really getting to me, even more than the others.

Rest in peace, dear Elizabeth. I hope your parents can somehow get through the sadness and horror of losing you. I'm sorry you won't get to see all those dreams come true, sorry that your babies will never be born, sorry we didn't give you a safer world.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #130
131. That is a very heartfelt response. I wish more people like
you had posted on the topic over in GD this morning. Smirky makes me angry too. I'm not good at dealing with my anger, especially when I feel so powerless to stop it. I wish our people were back home safe taking care of our borders and living in their own homes watching television and enjoying their lives. I hope they get to come home soon.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
133. What a waste!
Just like every death caused by this stupid, fucked-up, illegal war. My condolences.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
135. You mean MURDERED.
Oops.
*Zipping up flame suit*
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