I'm afraid the youth today don't have what it takes

[PantPlant]

-sigh-

Just watched the 60s on PBS tonight and it brought back all the old warrior memories.

One of my friends had his head busted, we all got gassed numerous times. We trached downtown a lot.

We stopped that war.

When are the youth today gonna stop looking at their own navels and hit the streets?

And I don't mean going to Washington once or twice a year and chanting.

Hell, we had protests that went on for days and days and numerous times a year!

You young people do not have what it takes to stop this war..that much is obvious to me.

[Maple]

1. It's a sure sign of old age

to say that.

The older generation has been saying that about youth since time began, and yet...somehow we've managed to survive.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Magistrate]

15. How Stirring, Sir

"For the Snark was a Boojum, you see...."

[Maple]

25. Your generation

Not this.

It isn't the 60's.

[KitchenWitch]

2. Wow

Nothing like calling out an entire generation...

ON EDIT:

Was this meant to be flamebait? If not, I would still don the asbestos suit if I were you.

[Melodybe]

3. I was at the march Saturday and the majority of people there seemed young

With heros like Eminmem and Kanye West, I think they will be just fine.

Did you know that more young people ages 18-35 voted in the last election than at anytime since 18 year-olds were given the right to vote?

Say what you will but their generation turned up in higher numbers in 2004 than yours did back in the day.

You're worrying too much, the youth is more accepting of race and sexuality then any other generation before them.

I think that America's youth rules, they voted for Kerry overwhelmingly.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

10. So, you're saying you want your children to be killed? nt

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Welcome to DU

but what it will take is... we have had this discusion many a times here on DU... the Draft... that is what it will take... when their asses are all of a sudden on the line

That said, there are young kids who are very involved, but we will not know how anybody will react until the tear gass flies, or the bullets kill somebody... and that is the sad truth

[Guaranteed]

6. Well, you boomers raised us.

In any case, I'm doing my part.

[PantPlant]

16. You bled yet?

Any of your friends bled yet?

Have you even been tear gassed? EVER EVEN BEEN CHASED BY A COP?!

You will NEVER stop this war.

[The Magistrate]

18. Ever Been Caught By One, Sir?

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. On the other hand we talk to three kids

Gen Xers regularly. They are my brother in law's kids... from a previous marriage

One of them is working for TSA and living with her significant other, she is gay, so is her partner, we don't care bout that... whenever we raise the point that sooner or later one of the three kids, if not two, of not the three of them will be in the front lines (draft), they just go, we are gay. Having three vets at home, we just shake head and tell them they won't care, here is your rifle soldier. Those two have a far less of a chance, because of where they work, not what they are... TSA is a critical job. Overall, they don't care, and all they care is about going on trips and getting stuff.

Second kid, he works two jobs, and over 100 hours a week. He really does not care either.. and it is not because of lack of time... he is so disillusioned with the whole system he could care less.

The third one, he has the best chance of not going over there when the draft comes, because of his problems, he cares, he gives a shit, but for multiple reason he is all talk and no action... and I mean that.

Now there are kids I have met over the years who are involved, but I fear it will take this being personal and their asses on the line for kids to care. For the record, the reason kids cared in the sixties was the draft, their ass was on the line, so they had to care... once this happens, you will see many of your Friends who only care for Will and Grace all of a sudden paying attention. By the way, thanks for caring. We may dream of the halcyon days of the 1960s, but reality is the leading edge of that generation did not care either.. they grew up in the 1950s, which were not that different from the 1980s... some things never change.

[The Magistrate]

7. Trashed Downtown A Lot, Did You, Back Then, Sir?

Where?

[PantPlant]

11. I did it sonny. Why?

Don't you ever question me O refugee from a gutless generation.

[The Magistrate]

17. You Did It Where, Sir?

And when...?

[PantPlant]

21. Who are you to ask me anything?

Get off it sonny or be ignored.

It was long before you dripped down your mamas leg I guarantee ya that!

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

28. .

[The Magistrate]

33. Glad To See You Up, Dear....

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

45. Yes, Love

Keeping me from completing my project but oh, my, how could I miss this?

Right arm, baby! Powder to the peoples!

[The Magistrate]

31. Oh My, Sir....

Again your ferocity just makes me tingle....

And your reluctance to provide particulars of your heroism doubtless is the sort of reticence appealing in fighting men and fugitives....

[PantPlant]

35. Get back to me when you've done something son

I'll still be around in a decade or two if things break my way.

[The Magistrate]

41. What An Optimist You Are, Sir

"I had no idea such a thing could still be found alone outdoors."

[Richard Steele]

67. Oh, Magistrate...WHY must you play with your food so?

(I'm working on my Jon Stewart impression!)

"Civilized discourse or blunt instrument? YOU be the judge!"

[Richard Steele]

50. Dissing the MAGISTRATE, with your awesome 15 posts? Pfft, sez dick!

The MAGI has spent a very long time
earning peoples RESPECT and ADMIRATION here.

You, however, have chosen a much faster and easier path:
Zero-to-idiot in 15 posts!

And as far as your quote:
"Don't you ever question me O refugee from a gutless generation."
Well, it raises an obvious question:
Who the fuck made you "beyond question?"

I'll question YOUR self-important, arrogant, flame-baiting nonsense
any damn time I feel like it!
(And I might occasionally take a break
to say, "Fuck you in the heart, you lying little weasel!")

Here's a thought:
If your behaviour is so vulnerable to questions,
perhaps you might try to make it less QUESTIONABLE.

See ya 'round, Mr."PLANT".

[MissMarple]

9. Old line, been said for thousands of years.

We're all still here. What can I say?

[PantPlant]

12. Just what I thought

Watch the 60s on PBS and you will see how to stop a war.

Tell me I'm not right on.

You guys don't have the guts!

[The Magistrate]

22. Is It Still "Right On", Sir?

Always thought it was "Left Off", myself....

"Three lefts make a right."

[MissMarple]

29. Clueless get.

I'm probably older than you. Don't preach to me about war and loss.

[CountAllVotes]

34. I watched it - my comments

and it made me cry. Those times are long past and forever part of the past it seems to me.

What the future holds I do not know. However, I was so incredibly hopeless after that time (the 60s/early 70s) that I never wanted any children.

What is really significant now is to focus on population control. I am no right-to-lifer by a long shot. Too many people on the plant = chaos. This is the problem now. Too many people and not enough resources to go around.

I watched the "demonstration" on the 24th and it did not bring me to tears. The only "hope" I saw was Sharpton's brief speech and Jesse Jackson.

Who else is out there now to speak the words we need to hear to see people get organized and deliver some blows against the empire? I don't see any like this now. That fundamental intellectualism of the time period - where is it now? I don't see it any where. It seems like many prefer to hide their heads in the sand.

And yes, I agree with the above poster re: the draft. That is what will do it - another draft sadly and a lot more dead bodies with coffins not shown perhaps.

I am not optimistic after watching that show so I know where you are coming from. In fact I even taped it so I can watch it again later.

[Dogmudgeon]

14. Fight the Fogeyism, PantPlant!

Cynicism is a poison. It's understandable, but it will destroy your soul. Fight it! Don't give up!

Welcome to DU. If you need any help in that fight, we're here.

--p!

[mirandaod]

19. My two sons

have been involved in peace activities in Ireland (where they live). They registered and voted absentee for Kerry, of course. They make their mommy proud.
I have a newspaper clipping from just after the first Gulf War. My youngest was in 4th grade in California then, and the class had corresponded with a soldier. After he got home, this soldier actually brought his family to meet the class. It was a big deal for the kids. My dear son, without any imput from me, decided to wear a tie-dye Tshirt with a huge peace symbol on it. He was the only peacenik in the group! Looks great in the photo.
There are a lot of young neocons, but don't give up on the whole generation. I know there are a lot of good ones.

[PantPlant]

23. Until you see protestors with blood

runing down their face nothing will change.

All of them are too afraid to step up.

[OneBlueSky]

20. it's got nothing to do with age . . . the entire population . . .

is misinformed and ill-informed, thanks to the corporate media . . . most people have NO idea what's really going on in the nation and the world, because that's where they get their info . . . most of the critical issues we discuss here on DU are absolutely foreign to a huge segment of the population, young and otherwise . . .

[PantPlant]

27. Okay, so what about the ones that ARE informed?

Presumably that would include some of you.

Do you think this war will be stopped without protestors being beaten and even killed in some cases?

The last misadventure wasn't stopped that way now was it?

[ProudDad]

24. I saw it too

I was there. The night Nixon was elected I narrowly avoided having my head bashed in by the billie clubs of the San Mateo Deputy Sheriffs who surrounded the peaceful group protesting the war in downtown Palo Alto.

I was targeted by Cointelpro because the group I was working with for Prison Reform was too black.

I was enraged by the murder of the dream by the killings of Martin and Bobby. (I didn't vote that year...I was so sickened).

But...

The kids today are "getting it". There's that lost generation of ronny ray-gun babies who are now in the late 30's and early 40's who ain't got a clue but the 20's and under now are very aware. I was PROUD to march with them last weekend in S.F. I've been energized seeing the younger folks who are much less naive than we were but just as militant about justice and peace.

Don't worry, they'll hit the streets and they'll hit the polling places and (probably) a larger number of them will retain their values than us boomers did -- 'cause friends, they ain't gonna be the kind of extra fat in the economy that we had to sustain us. The next generations will have to fight the owners and bosses for every scap that's left or die trying.

[PantPlant]

Then you know this war will not stop until

dup

[The Magistrate]

36. Not Really, Sir

It took steadily indreased casualties to no purpose anyone could see, and an effort that could not be sustained without conscription....

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PantPlant]

32. Then you know this war will not stop until

You and I see our sons and daughters being beaten and bloodied in the streets.

Did it not take that during the Nam fiasco

[lcordero2]

30. The kids in these parts are GHETTO(Bronx)

If the draft ever comes up I think that the floors of Congress and the Senate will be slick with blood.

On edit: and they would be justified.

[khashka]

37. Bullshit PantPlant

The kids are alright. You're just not looking in the right places.

It's the complacent old fogeys living in the past who are fucking this one up left right and center.


Khash.

[PantPlant]

40. Then hit the streets..EVERYDAY UNTIL IT STOPS!

I promise you that is what it will take!!!

[PantPlant]

38. I'm gettin' cranky-off to bed--I may not come back here.

I don't see much spit and fire.


I "hear" a lot of talk.


Way too much talk.

[The Magistrate]

43. A Great Deal Of It, Sir, Coming From You....

"If I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take."

[PantPlant]

46. Make sure you stay behind the keyboard son

I can see you got a habit of losing teeth.

[blogslut]

48. interesting nick

does it stand for pantex plant?

[Richard Steele]

74. No, it's because he plants a pantload with every post!

Every time I think that the Freeper Trolls couldn't get
more entertaining, they prove me wrong!

This moran was the best laugh in DAYS!

[The Magistrate]

58. You Are Really A Funny, Funny Man, Sir

[KitchenWitch]

47. And you have yet to tell us what actual action you took back "in the day"

Mind you, I am not one of the "young" people you have chosen to offend and insult by this post...

I have done my share of anti-war protesting...I have been maced, and beaten with billyclubs..while being peaceful myself.

[Guaranteed]

51. Or what stops him now. nt

[KitchenWitch]

54. That too!

[crispini]

49. I suppose that's one way to get noticed as a n00b.

Flounce around, post flamebait, argue with one of the coolest mods on the block, and generally act like a big windbag.

Not sure it's the way I'd pick, though.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

56. Specifically, what do you...

...propose? If your point is it's not going to be easy at all to remove the very well entrenched, illegitimate, fascist regime that now runs this country, I agree. But don't blame the under 30 crowd. They are the least culpable if you want to start looking at generations, which I'm not sure is a very useful exercise. Back to my question, just what, specifically do you propose?

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

57. Bravo! Bis! Encore!

Author, author!



A stunning piece of street theater - why, I believe you really did watch that show about the 60s!

Take a bow, you longtime lurker, you. It may be the last chance you get.

[loyalsister]

39. It's about incentive

The young people today are not required to invest in this war.
When there is no required sacrifice, the impetus to get involved is not there. If there were a draft, things would be much different.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

44. I guess it's how you...

...look at things. I'm a Baby Boomer who looks at the Echo Boomers of today and feel a certain guilt and shame that it is WE who've failed them. I'm not trying to raise your blood pressure any further than it already is, but I think your venom is misdirected.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Repeat after me it is not the sixties

phew... now repeat after me, the kids in 1960, 61 and 62 did not give a shit either... heck it took all they way to 65 for demos to get going... civil rights had a tad to do with it, but it was NOT all of the sixties.

Now repeat after me, it is not the sixties... many police departments who would have bashed heads back then ain't gonna do it these days (and some that would not have done it back then already have, or did you miss the arrests and even bleeding at the RNC convention in New York?)

Each figth is different.

Each struggle is different

And each generation enters the struggle in a different way. The kids today, for the most part, like the kids back then don't give a shit. THe kids today need the same thing that they did back them... for this to be personal... the draft will change that... and why bushco is holding off as long as he can.

Now the youth will find its own way... and many kids have been fighting the machine for a while already... go on, find and listen to some of Rage against the Machine, go on.. and tell me they are not trying

Now in the 60s you could get Rage against the Machine at the local radio station, try that today? good luck, I dare you, I double dare you and I triple dare you.

So you bled in the streets and had contrielpro on your tail... congratulations and thank you... the fight today involves more than just trashing the city center, and by the way, you might have missed the WTO demonstrations in Seatle... kids bled that day and tear gas few and many were arrested... I am curious have you heard of it? I thought so... the silence of any action against the machine is deafening... so the tactics are very different. Marches... I don't know, but a national strike, in our modern just on time economy might be something they cannot ignore. So they will not bash your head... ok... a national strike will do quite a bit if it goes off the way it should.

[stormmoon1978]

53. Guess what?

The reason why most of the youth isn't protesting is cause, oh I dunno, WE'RE WORRYING ABOUT GETTING A FUCKING JOB! And why can't most of us find jobs? Because most of you bastards won't retire!

[crispini]

55. LOL!

Hi stormy! welcome to DU!

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. Welcome kid

and don't worry even us older folks cannot find jobs, so you are not alone, this damn ecomomy is so good that we are all fully employed

[Graf Orlok]

59. So you're asking us to break the law?

Sorry, buddy. I prefer to do stuff within the legal limits of the law.

I don't want to give up my college career or my reputation because of doing something stupid.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Hmm His point is that at times you have to break the law

in order to change things

Rosa Parks broke the law, so did King and oh my so did the many kids who sat at the coutner of Woolworths... and demanded service, white only you know... so did the kids who went from up north to register voters in teh deep south...

So did Ghandi and the Chicago Seven...

Reember the law is written by men and not all laws are just... but we can still do this within the confines of civil disobedience.

[Graf Orlok]

63. I understand that...

but I meant breaking the law as in tearing up a city or destroying things.

I'm more of pacifist. I'm willing just to sit somewhere and not move.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. I know but I suspect what the OP is asking

is the kind of civil disobedience that leads to teh cops bashing heads... tehy did in Seatle in 1999 and they did in NYC during the RNC convetion, but the papers have not shown that... so as Sister Randhis says, if it was not in Teevee, it never happened.

[Graf Orlok]

66. Ooooh...

I misread the OP.

I've been up for over 32 hours, so I can't read very well right now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Go get some sleep

and welcome to DU

[The Magistrate]

72. What The O.P. Is Doing, Ma'am

Is sniggering at the thought of getting some people to get their skulls cracked. That is all....

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. And it has already happened

NYC last year... but he never read it in the paper, or saw it on the teeevee... so it never happened, Sir.

[Guaranteed]

75. I had three friends that were arrested at the convention

and kept in jail, totally isolated, for days.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. I know but was that over the fold of the NYT

what about the lead news at CNN?

As sister randhi says, if it is not on teevee it never happened. (And soemtimes when it is on TV you cannot get them to tell ya what actyually happened, Brownie lying to congress under oath.. impressive)

[undergroundpanther]

61. And the boomers that raised this gutless generation

Kissed the bosses ass and kept thier nose to the grindstone..
What example of rebellion did these obedient overworked parents called yuppies who are ALWAYS there for the boss man to do work and work, but not there for thier own kids teach? They left thier kids at home when they were home from school and instead they buy them stuff rather than spend time with them,and get to KNOW thier own kids than when these kids become teens and get on Heroin you bemoan the inconvienence and ship them to a psych hospital until they get thier will stomped down more,,,Remember the song Cats in the cradle by Cat Stevens?It applies.

http://www.enotalone.com/books/0805067639.html

Kids today are wimps because they have no hope and see thier parents are slaves to an unjust system and will not fight for anything not even more money,even for their sake,A college education does not guaruntee a job or stability or nothing...because the parents sucked up to corporations too damn much playing horatio algier.


If you act like a slave to work and that ambition and winning and getting more is all that matters to you,and keeping up appearances fitting in buying nice houses is it any wonder your kids are gutless they only learned it from YOU..So they look to old hippies and punx and rebels from other countries and imitate it because the me generation was too republican and greedy to inspire anything but consumerism and obedience to church and boss and never take a risk..Ever wonder why we have no health insurance and work longer hours than other industralized nations?

It's because you generation yuppies ABANDONED the unions for mo money, abandoned fighting against corporations and culture of corruption and stopped participating in radical politics you became milquetoast suburbanite safety moms.making sure lifes rough corners were taken off playground equipment and you were never there for your kids emotional hell It took Kliebold and Harris of columbine to make this country notice the systematic abuse bullying does to kids...


Now because reality pinches YOUR ass you WHINE to your kids that things suck?? Welfare mothers,the poor, the disabled the homeless,the punks,freaks,anarchists,the gays,the other colored races those people you snubbed they remember hoew hard opression is ,but you don't want your whitebread kids associating with THOSE people.. This country really to suck in earnest when the "soccer moms" got cityphobic and moved to the suburbs in too big ticky tacky tract houses to pretend they were not poor anymore and rung up huge credit debt.A game of pretend..And your kids know it.

No wonder your kids are wimps look at thier parents!
And why should the kids stand up for you parents you were not there for them, you were at work or communting to or from work dumping them off at a sitter.

[stormmoon1978]

68. Amen!

[Borgnine]

64. Whatever.

I'm so fucking tired of posts like yours, but whatever. Believe what you want to believe, but please go ride off on your nostalgic high horse. You want things to be exactly like they were in the late '60s, but those days are in the past.

We're still fighting, young and old. What you fail to see is that the old methods don't work anymore. They may have been effective in the day, but times change. Just because we're not all getting shot at doesn't mean we're not doing good, so excuse fucking me if I haven't tasted any bullets.

Goddamn, there's just as many complacent people from your generation as there are from mine. This never changes. What has changed? You never had to deal with the corporate media environment we do. Even on his worst day, Nixon was never as bad as what Bush has brought about. I'd say that with everything against us, we're doing pretty damn well for ourselves.

Stop the fucking lecturing, get off your ass, and join us. Otherwise screw off.

[KitchenWitch]

69. Hear, fucking hear!

Thank you for posting that!

Borgnine:

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. by the way he has not tasted bullets

its overrated, those of us who have tasted bullets (not in demonstrations by the way) are not nostalgic for them in any way, shape or form.

[undergroundpanther]

77. tired? me too.

>>>I'm so fucking tired of posts like yours, but whatever. Believe what you want to believe, but please go ride off on your nostalgic high horse. You want things to be exactly like they were in the late '60s, but those days are in the past.

I was a baby in the 60's .And I am angry at the oblivious people where I live,they are not active they hole up in thier houses.this is scary.

>>>We're still fighting, young and old. What you fail to see is that the old methods don't work anymore. They may have been effective in the day, but times change. Just because we're not all getting shot at doesn't mean we're not doing good, so excuse fucking me if I haven't tasted any bullets.

And this passive non violent action isn't working either.There is a place for fighting. I think it will come to that because the criminals in the government are brutal and live in insulated bubbles so they will not responsd to anything else.I think you have to hit them where it hurts in the pocketbook in the"property".Otherwise they ignore it.

>>>Goddamn, there's just as many complacent people from your generation as there are from mine. This never changes. What has changed? You never had to deal with the corporate media environment we do. Even on his worst day, Nixon was never as bad as what Bush has brought about. I'd say that with everything against us, we're doing pretty damn well for ourselves.

Oh I agree Bush is a hellofalot worse than nixon.I still wonder what made our parents drop out of political engagement so much? It's a mystery other than the economy was OK sio they didn't get involved because it didn't huert them? I think all of us young older and old will have to become radicalized to fight these monsters and I do not think peace will do anything. I think the anarchists are trying to think out of the box. They might be worth listening to..

>>Stop the fucking lecturing, get off your ass, and join us. Otherwise screw off.

Believe me I do my part.My mom however has her head firmly in the sand and THAT bothers me.

[The Magistrate]

78. Locking

All good things must come to their end, and the O.P. is no longer among us....