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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 11:33 PM
Original message
The Sixties on PBS
Just watched the two hour program http://www.pbs.org/opb/thesixties / and if it will be repeated, please please watch it.

There are so many parallels to our times. Not so much the fights for civil rights, women rights and gay rights as the disconnect between the establishment and the people who actually are trying to live by the rules created by the administration.

Of course, the Sixties are the source of all evil to the RW and Pat Buchanan talks about it, and Bork. I often read this on the editorials of the Wall St Journal: this was when all rules and semblance of order broke, when people lost any shame, when everything went. Though I suspect that these editors were not yet born or can barely remember the Sixties. Certainly the Reagan administration tried to do everything to turn back the clock on the Sixties and on the New Deal. Yes, Reagan played a prominent role as Governor of California. And, yes, there is a footage of Kerry testifying in front of the Senate after returning from Vietnam.

I wonder, though about Bush. After all, he is the same age. Where was he during the Sixties, the late Sixties, to be exact, that started with Students taking over Columbia, and then in San Francisco State and, of course, 1968: the Tet Offense, the murders of MLK and of RFK, the Chicago convention and later Kent State, the Pentagon papers, Nixon and Watergate.

Really a required viewing.

(We watched CSI first and then switched to the second hour, but then PBS started it again, so watched the first hour last).
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Even Kissinger grudgingly admitted the protests were getting to them.
It was a very powerful two hours. Bobby Kennedy's shooting was almost unbearable.

Pat Buchanan was getting on our nerves though.

It was great piece of history, and it brought back a lot of memories.
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Carla in Ca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. He spent two days underground?!
Now that's power to the people. When I hear people say "Iraq is not Vietnam", this showed you just how much it is.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. I agree, it was a great program...
I was struck by a couple of things:

1.) Our country sits in the exact same position that it did during the Vietnam War. It's the same cast of warmongering buffoons fucking things up for the entire nation. These irresponsible oafs garner power and they become irresponsible and delusional. Here we sit AGAIN...not even 40 years later...and they have learned nothing!!

2.) I sat in AWE of the courage and convictions of the protesters and those who fought so hard for civil rights and equality. They were heroes. They were standing up when many in the country were positioning them as freaks. They were brave and they protested and made the voices heard. They changed America. We can do that too. I just kept thinking---we are not powerless to these BushCo thugs. We just have to organize and raise our voices.

3.) I am concerned. The anti-war movement was amazing. I'm hoping that this generation can be as victorious and courageous as the protesters in the 1960s. I was amazed by the music that came out of the 1960's and I'm wondering if that energy can be recapitulated. The music had a lot to do with catalyzing the war effort and giving it momentum. I'm concerned that--while there are courageous souls protesting this war--that we all need a fire lit underneath us before it's too late for our country. I hope we can galvanize and fight these bastards. History has shown--that these bastards have to be stopped. They don't quit on their own. We have to stop them.

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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. The program did mention that the protesters grew up in affluent
times and, I think, most came from at least comfortable homes.

Some also said that while many objected to the war, most just did not want to get killed. And I think it is a known fact that the resistance really grew when college deferments were canceled.

As many have said many times: all we need is to reinstate the draft and we will see how unpopular the war will be. Even now, when so many see the misery in New Orleans, it is clear where the priorities should be.

I've always admired the courage of the civil rights protesters, who were going against police brutality and individuals who did not even consider them of equal human value.

And, I have to admit, I've never known about the students in Mexico City. This was scary. Also, an interesting explanation of the Black Panthers gesture during the Olympics.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. I was reminded of pre-Iraq war,around 3/03, and the "Pre-Flight Checklist"
I found it hilarious at the time, but watching PBS for the last two hours made it seem all the more real.

http://mwowatchwatchwatchwatch.blogspot.com/2003_03_02_...

VIETNAM 2 PREFLIGHT CHECK

1. Cabal of oldsters who won't listen to outside advice? Check.

2. No understanding of ethnicities of the many locals? Check.

3. Imposing country boundaries drawn in Europe, not by the locals? Check.

4. Unshakeable faith in our superior technology? Check.

5. France secretly hoping we fall on our asses? Check.

6. Russia secretly hoping we fall on our asses? Check.

7. China secretly hoping we fall on our asses? Check.

8. SecDef pushing a conflict the JCS never wanted? Check.

9. Fear we'll look bad if we back down now? Check.

10. Corrupt Texan in the WH? Check.

11. Land war in Asia? Check.

12. Right unhappy with outcome of previous war? Check.

13. Enemy easily moves in/out of neighboring countries? Check.

14. Soldiers about to be dosed with *our own* chemicals? Check.

15. Friendly fire problem ignored instead of solved? Check.

16. Anti-Americanism up sharply in Europe? Check.

17. B-52 bombers? Check.

18. Helicopters that clog up on the local dust? Check.

19. In-fighting among the branches of the military? Check.

20. Locals that cheer us by day, hate us by night? Check.

21. Local experts ignored? Check.

22. Local politicians ignored? Check.

23. Locals used to conflicts lasting longer than the USA has been a country? Check.

24. Against advice, Prez won't raise taxes to pay for war? Check.

25. Blue water navy ships operating in brown water? Check.

26. Use of nukes hinted at if things don't go our way? Check.

27. Unpopular war? Check.

VIETNAM 2 YOU ARE CLEARED TO TAXI
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Scary (nt)
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ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Gulf of Tonkin lie
Did you notice how they only needed about five seconds to tell us that it was later revealed that the Tonkin Gulf incident was a lie?

At the time, people who would say that would get labeled anti-American.

There's a parallel for you.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. It was a great program, brought back a lot of memories.
There was a disconnect, a generation gap is how they phrased it. 1968 was the heart breaker year, it left a lot of impressions on me that still continue to this day. The country was coming apart at the seams and there was a breakdown in order. Republicans have always had a fixation with order management but you also get to see the application of the jack boots by Daley in Chicago. I was completely dumbfounded then, seeing it play out on TV. The Democrats took the easy way out, knocking down the peace platform. When you look a the footage there a striking similarities to last weekends march. Look at the signs and the people (all age groups). I thought I heard them come out with a 700 thousand figure on protesters. They did mention 2 million for the nationwide protests. That is what scared the hell out of Nixon & the Republicans. I remember Nixon's silent majority...but they really didn't show up, he was trying to connect to his base. The silent majority is freeper world today...they say the same kinds of things. I did find out a few interesting things I forgot about the election campaigns, with Humphrey coming out much too late in supporting peace. I kinda lost track then after my hero RFK was gunned down. Then again I was in my early teens and my father passed that year too.
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Democrats_win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. A wonderful show. Never knew the protesters made a mistake of
protesting Humphrey and not Nixon and then some didn't vote which gave Nixon the election. The election was very close. The war would last about seven more years. The conservatives were concerned about law and order.

It was interesting how Nixon went after the MSM. He had Vice President Agnew make a speech about the "nattering nabobs of negativism." They were careful to maintain some sense of dignity, but they knew how to attack. That is, until Agnew was forced to resign.

Then there's the ambassodor lying about bombing Laos.

Notice how Pat tried to say the Pentagon Papers didn't bother Nixon because they were about JFK and LBJ. He sure did put a lot of effort into making sure they weren't published though. Then the show said that more people died in Vietnam during Nixon's reign.
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Pat Buchanan wrote Agnew's speeches. He came up with Nattering Nabobs.
And Effete Intellectuals, that's another one of his that Agnew used.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. That was when I saw the parallels. Of those who voted for Nader
in 2000 and made it possible for the Supremes to give the White House to Bush. Of so many posts on DU by people who say they will stay at home if (fill in the blank) is the nominee.

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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. Well, some of us didn't. I protested the war, but I also worked
for the Humphrey campaign that fall. I'd supported Bobby Kennedy earlier, was lucky enough to see him give one campaign speech, and I was heartbroken when he was assassinated. But Humphrey needed support to have any chance of beating Nixon, and it was obvious that a Nixon victory would be much worse for the country and the world than a Humphrey victory could ever be. You don't win elections by sitting one out or voting for a third-party candidate with no chance of winning, just to make an ideological point. And making ideological points is an academic luxury if the election is won by a thug who can do much more damage to everything that matters to you than the less-than-ideal candidate your party nominated ever would...
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PantPlant Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. The one phrase that caught me
"enlightened self-interest" in reference to the student protestors.
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. Yes, it was fantastic and very relevant. nt
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saged52 Donating Member (344 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
8. the parallels are amazing
I nearly threw my very large coffee cup at the TV when Pat Buchanan talked, though! It is, indeed, required viewing. Since 'they' cannot learn - we will have to do it all over again.
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
9. Bush hated the counterculture. Hated it.
Remember, he's ALWAYS been a chickenhawk. He and his ilk resent the hell out of anyone who protested the war. That's why they so detested Bill and Hillary.
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
12. I can tell you a little about Georgie...
At the '72 Repuke convention, Georgie was filmed and/or photographed there while Poppy spoke. Poppy was UN Ambassador at the time. Georgie was sitting next to a much younger Rummy. I'm sure Dickie was there too, and all the rest of the gang o' thugs.
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Hidden Stillness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
13. It was Great, and Pretty Much Accurate
It was a fabulous program--lots of great film, and a pretty balanced approach to the telling of it. It was a narrowly limited scope--basically mid-to-late '60s protesters--but there was so much going on back then that it was just a profusion of events and information anyway. Hubert Humphrey would have made a great President--a real New Deal progressive originally from the Minnesota Democratic Farmer-Labor Party--but was completely associated with Lyndon Johnson and the "pro-war" opinion, distancing from it too late. This program was also honest enough to mention the fact that the protesters attacked Humphrey and other Democrats, yet never bothered Nixon. Brilliant. We will never make up for the loss of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr.--painful; that was the best of us.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Almost like the dilemma that Gore had in distancing himself from
Clinton, but in his case, it was a mistake. And... having an affair in the White House does not kill anyone.

The sad thing was that so many chose to stay home and Nixon was elected by a very thin majority.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
14. been there -done that
it was a long crazy ride...bush was the guy that kind`a hung around the "cool kids" but was such arrogant asshole that no one liked him. he didn`t give a shit about anything cause he knew his mommy would bail him out if things got to tough for him. remember he has never worked one day in his life..his hands are as smooth as a babies butt
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
18. I'm still watching it... it's just about to wrap up.
I was inspired.

I kept saying, "Wow, that looks familiar."

As someone "from the 80s" who idealized the 60s, I can look back many years later and feel it as so much more than idealism.

History repeats. I hope, for the last time.
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
20. LBJ: I couldn't get 50K supporters to DC if I bought them all tickets...
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 02:10 AM by LaPera
Just as we saw last weekend, with the only 400 people who showed up in DC to support Bush's war...And well over 300K to protest it.
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second edition Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
23. Good program and a bonus was they mentioned John Kerry! n/t
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
24. It was a reminder of how gritty and nasty protest is/ has to be.
Changing the course of events isn't polite and gentlemanly. I think people have forgotten that, or have been brain washed into thinking it is unnecessary or wrong.
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