Why do Dems keep losing?

[prolesunited]

I just don't understand what is happening here. First was 2000, when the election was so close that it could be stolen. Then, it was 2002 when we lost seat after seat in Congress. Now, it's California.

They are literally bankrupting our country, turning the treasury over to the rich and corporate interests, and gutting every social program.

How and why do they keep winning? Why are people voting against their own interests? What are we missing here?

[jiacinto]

1. The Media

I used to believe that those who claimed right wing bias in the media were wrong. Now I see it. CNN was campaigning for Arnold all day.

[Cocoa]

4. no doubt about it

and the way they are protecting Bush is absolutely outrageous. The double standard between him and Clinton is infuriating.

[tom_paine]

28. Not infuriating, Cocoa...Orwellian

Infuriating I could live with.

But this War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength shit is too much.

Goddamned if every day doesn't seem more and more like "Animal Farm".

And Comrade Napoleon is just getting warmed up.

[w4rma]

7. exactly. big media is neo-con.

…
Gore has shared their frustration. In an interview last December with the New York Observer, he described the conservative outlets as a “fifth column” within the media ranks that injects “daily Republican talking points into the definition of what's objective.”

“The media is kind of weird these days on politics, and there are some major institutional voices that are, truthfully speaking, part and parcel of the Republican Party,” Gore said. “Fox News Network, The Washington Times , Rush Limbaugh — there’s a bunch of them, and some of them are financed by wealthy ultra-conservative billionaires who make political deals with Republican administrations and the rest of the media.”
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,459345,00.html
http://www.observer.com/pages/story.asp?ID=6665

The Internet might soon be the last place where open dialogue occurs. One of the most dangerous things that has happened in the past few years is the deregulation of media ownership rules that began in 1996. Michael Powell and the Bush FCC are continuing that assault today (see the June 2nd ruling).

The danger of relaxing media ownership rules became clear to me when I saw what happened with the Dixie Chicks. But there’s an even bigger danger in the future, on the Internet. The FCC recently ruled that cable and phone based broadband providers be classified as information rather than telecommunications services. This is the first step in a process that could allow Internet providers to arbitrarily limit the content that users can access. The phone and cable industries could have the power to discriminate against content that they don’t control or-- even worse-- simply don’t like.

The media conglomerates now dominate almost half of the markets around the country, meaning Americans get less independent and frequently less dependable news, views and information. James Madison and Thomas Jefferson spoke of the fear that economic power would one day try to seize political power. No consolidated economic power has more opportunity to do this than the consolidated power of media

Posted by Howard Dean at 06:31 PM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000683.html

Amanpour: CNN practiced self-censorship
CNN's top war correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, says that the press muzzled itself during the Iraq war. And, she says CNN "was intimidated" by the Bush administration and Fox News, which "put a climate of fear and self-censorship."

As criticism of the war and its aftermath intensifies, Amanpour joins a chorus of journalists and pundits who charge that the media largely toed the Bush administrationline in covering the war and, by doing so, failed to aggressively question the motives behind the invasion.

On last week's Topic A With Tina Brown on CNBC, Brown, the former Talk magazine editor, asked comedian Al Franken, former Pentagon spokeswoman Torie Clarke and Amanpour if "we in the media, as much as in the administration, drank the Kool-Aid when it came to the war."

Said Amanpour: "I think the press was muzzled, and I think the press self-muzzled. I'm sorry to say, but certainly television and, perhaps, to a certain extent, my station was intimidated by the administration and its foot soldiers at Fox News. And it did, in fact, put a climate of fear and self-censorship, in my view, in terms of the kind of broadcast work we did."

Brown then asked Amanpour if there was any story during the war that she couldn't report.

"It's not a question of couldn't do it, it's a question of tone," Amanpour said. "It's a question of being rigorous. It's really a question of really asking the questions. All of the entire body politic in my view, whether it's the administration, the intelligence, the journalists, whoever, did not ask enough questions, for instance, about weapons of mass destruction. I mean, it looks like this was disinformation at the highest levels."

Clarke called the disinformation charge "categorically untrue" and added, "In my experience, a little over two years at the Pentagon, I never saw them (the media) holding back. I saw them reporting the good, the bad and the in between."

Fox News spokeswoman Irena Briganti said of Amanpour's comments: "Given the choice, it's better to be viewed as a foot soldier for Bush than a spokeswoman for al-Qaeda."

CNN had no comment.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/columnist/mediamix/2003-09-14-media-mix_x.htm

Why Isn't Randi Rhodes Syndicated? The Dilemma of a Liberal Talk Show Host.

RHODES: Oh, I am so glad you asked. I am a ratings and revenue queen. Number 1 or 2 in the ratings usually. So what are the “mainstream” talking about? Well, they say Liberals don't make money because no one wants to hear them. Okay, let's think.

First, remember that more Americans are registered or identify themselves as Democrats than Republicans. So here's the dirty little secret of news talk. There are advertisers making huge “buys” on really low rated shows that air nationally. If advertisers only go where the listeners are why do they buy cable news, Oliver North, or Rush Limbaugh who has horrible ratings?

They are buying CONTROL of CONTENT. It's leverage, whether it's radio, cable or network. They control millions of dollars of any company's revenue source. So that if something is said or done to disrupt their global business, they take their advertising elsewhere, or threaten to and then shut down the message.

And, think about this . . . how many products are on TV that you can't even buy? Plastics, computer chips, prescription drugs, soybeans. I mean honestly. This is the story that NEVER gets told. People just think, “Well, if your good enough, you'll have a big audience and that's what advertisers want.” “Whose being naïve now Kaye?” I am always number one or two in the market. Rush is somewhere around 21st. I replaced G. Gordon Liddy!

I hope this gets told over and over because it is how they control our news, our Information Awareness. Get it?

BUZZFLASH: Explain the allegations that Rush Limbaugh has stated, that if Clear Channel syndicated your show, he would take his program to another company. Could there be a Democratic or Progressive Rush Limbaugh type personality on the airwaves?

RHODES: Not at Clear Channel.

First, let me tell you where the story came from. I had two meetings with middle managers who both liked me and what I had done for our 'pod'. (At Clear Channel the territories are split up into 'pods'.) In two separate meetings I was told “The Rush story.” Additionally, I should never expect to be syndicated by Clear Channel because Rush had said he'd just do what advertisers do. He'd go somewhere else. I was an unknown, he was a known.

I begged for and got (6 months later) a meeting with a senior manager. He told me the “Rush story.” So that's where it comes from. Now, when Oliver North was on the air, he stated that Rush was syndicated because Rush was a better talent and got better ratings. (This is insulting because of the fatness of the lie) . . . I then told him that Rush had threatened to take his show elsewhere if I were to be syndicated by Clear Channel. He said “I've heard that but I can't comment.” So everyone does seem to know “The Rush Story.” (North and Rush are friends).

Control the Content . . . we have business that cannot be disturbed by a questioning public.
http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/03/01/03_Rhodes.html

Meanwhile, the Web site www.allyourtv.com posted a commentary on Wednesday by Rick Ellis saying that he had been leaked an internal NBC study that described Donahue as “a tired, left-wing liberal out of touch with the current marketplace.”

The report allegedly said Donahue presented a difficult face for NBC at a time of war, saying a nightmare scenario would be one in which his show becomes “a home for the liberal anti-war agenda at the same time our competitors are waving the flag at every opportunity.”
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/5263274.htm

While “Donahue” does badly trail both O'Reilly and CNN's Connie Chung in the ratings, those numbers have improved in recent weeks. So much so that the program is the top-rated show on MSNBC, beating even the highly promoted “Hardball With Chris Matthews.”

Although Donahue didn't know it at the time, his fate was sealed a number of weeks ago after NBC News executives received the results of a study commissioned to provide guidance on the future of the news channel.

That report--shared with me by an NBC news insider--gives an excruciatingly painful assessment of the channel and its programming. Some of recommendations, such as dropping the “America's News Channel,” have already been implemented. But the harshest criticism was leveled at Donahue, whom the authors of the study described as “a tired, left-wing liberal out of touch with the current marketplace.”
http://www.allyourtv.com/0203season/news/02252003donahue.html

NOW In Depth - Massive Media PBS
Solid Ratings Don't Protect Progressive Radio Voices
What's Wrong With This Picture?
Podvin on the Media 1-31-02
Harper's editor laments rise of corporate news purveyors
Commentary: The Surrender Of MSNBC
The Wayward Media

HUSTLER: What has happened to the the news media in this country?

PALAST: I vomit every time I see Tom Brokaw.

HUSTLER: And Dan Rather-

PALAST: I feel sick at heart when I see Rather, because he's actually a journalist. He came on my program, Newsnight and said, “I can't report the news. I'm not allowed to ask questions. We're gonna send our children and our husbands into the desert now, and I can't ask a question, because I will be lynched.” This is what Rather said in London. He looked defeated and awful, and I was thinking, Why am I feeling sorry for this guy who is worth millions? He should turn to the camera and say, “Well, now for the truth. Over to you, Greg, in London.” The problem is that he can't report the story of the intelligence agents who are told not to look at the Bin Laden family, not to look at Saudi funding of terror.

HUSTLER: What makes Rather afraid to do his job?

PALAST: It's not just that there are brutal shepherds like Rupert Murdoch out there to beat the dickens out of any reporter that asks the wrong questions; it's all about making news on the cheap. You know, for some of these editors, cheap and easy is a philosophy of life. To do a heavy-duty story on Bush, and his oil and Bush and his gold-mining company is beyond them. A little bit of the Harken stock scandal came out, but that story was already seven years old. To some extent they know that there are certain things you cannot say. Rather says he would be necklaced for telling the truth.

HUSTLER: He said that? What did he mean?

PALAST: In South Africa, under apartheid, if someone didn't like you, they put a burning tire around your neck. That was called “necklacing.” On my show, Rather said, “If I ask any questions, I'll be necklaced.” And I'm thinking, Oh, that's a good image. It's sad, but if Dan Rather doesn't have the cajones to ask a question, then you name a reporter who's gonna step out and ask about what's going on. It's not that the corporate guys say, “Don't run that story,” although that has happened to me many times in North American media, but also the shepherds pick the lambs who won't ask the questions. For example, there was a reporter, some poor producer, who wanted to run a story about how Jack Welch had lied about polluting the Hudson River. The story didn't run. Shockeroo. That was for Dateline NBC, owned by General Electric, of which Jack Welch was the chairman of the board. Or as in the case of Venezuela, I was stunned to come back from Caracas to find a picture on the front page of the San Francisco Chronicle of 100,000 people marching against the president of Venezuela. Sounds like he's a terrible guy and people hate him. What they didn't say was that half a million people were marching for him. At least the Soviet Russians knew that the stuff in Pravda was coming out the wrong end of a toilet, whereas, we live under the pretense that The New York Times prints all the news that's fit to print.
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=181&row=1

…
Robins was talking serious politics on a morning chat show - and clearly hackles went up. By 8:24 Robins was explaining “We're fighting for freedom for the Iraqi people right now so that they can have freedom of speech, yet we're telling our own citizens they have to be quiet”

Lauer could have called it quits there -but he went on “When you see pictures of Iraqi's dancing and celebrating -does it change your mind?” “No” Said Robbins - “I'm ecstatic that they feel this freedom, I hope we have the resolve to get in there and make it work.”

It was at this point that something happened that has perhaps never happened before in the history of morning television.

The music swelled under Robbins... Mid-sentence answering a question that had been asked just 10 seconds earlier... “We have a terrible track record” said Robbins, clearly not able to hear that music was coming up to literally 'play him off the stage'.

The camera cut to a wide shot. Lauer was leaning in and very much in conversation. Either Lauer was ignoring what must have been the deluge of invectives in his earpiece, or he just determined that he wasn't finished with this line of questioning.

But the music ended. The bumper music ended and the studio was in the two shot as Robbins said...“It's for some reason not in our best interest to keep it going and pursue it to the next level.” Lauer nodded, and the camera faded to black as Robbins - mid sentence - had his microphone turned down.

A conversation about free speech. An anchor asking reasonable questions. A guest responding in equally reasonable tones. No attempt to close out the discussion - to say “Well thank you Tim”. This was not a filibuster. Robbins was not hogging the spotlight.

Someone in the control room simply decided that it was time to pull the plug. And without grace or ceremony, or even the face saving of letting Lauer say “We're out of time” as morning shows do on so many occasions.

A conversation about free speech and free expression was cut off mid sentence as the network went to black.

Television history was made, as million of Americans got to watch in real time just how powerful and inescapable censorship can be. Robbins wasn't revealing troop locations, or giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Remember the war has been won - by all accounts. He was discussing freedom, free speech, and why his appearance has been canceled at the Baseball Hall of Fame. NBC should invite him back and let him finish his thought - or admit at least who was on the phone to master control demanding that they pull the plug.
http://www.rense.com/general37/dark.htm

Tampa cable won't air ad criticizing Bush tax cut

TAMPA - (AP) -- A TV commercial critical of President Bush's tax plan won't air in Tampa after the city's major cable provider expressed concerns about the script.

The commercial was produced for MoveOn.org, an online political activist group, and was slated to air about 10 times a day this week on cable systems in 23 cities, said Lanicia Shaw, executive assistant for Zimmerman and Markman, a Santa Monica, Calif., advertising agency handling the commercial.

The ad is a reenactment of an event in Eugene, Ore., a month ago in which 50 parents lined up outside a clinic to sell their blood plasma to help pay a teacher's salary.

''George Bush's tax cuts for the rich have meant less money for education,'' the commercial contends.
…
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/state/5862591.htm

3. How important is “truth” in mass media reporting compared to ratings?
The media doesn't care about outing the real stories - nor about ratings. The truth GETS ratings - but it doesn't win friends in high places. We got more information about the war in Vietnam through “MASH” and “Star Trek” allegories than on CBS news.
The corporate owners of the networks will make a killing on their stealing the digital spectrum, given away for nothing by the Telecommunications Act. (For details, see my website www.GregPalast.com) They are willing to give up ratings points by serving up snooze-news with Tom Brokaw rather than gain audience share but lose their tickets to White House dinners.
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=145&row=1

Wall Street Journal:
War Produces Rift in Media Between U.S., Other Nations
… British television reporter Geoff Meade asked the officer what he would say to Iraqis and other Muslims who might welcome such images. Some U.S. reporters looked stunned at the aggressiveness of the question. A hush fell on the room. The general eyed him coldly and parried the query. Afterward, says Mr. Meade, a veteran correspondent with Sky News, a service of British Sky Broadcasting Group PLC, “Somebody joked to me that I'd find myself at the back of the room along with the French and the Germans.”
…
“We believe people need to see the truth, and there's no need to make the truth cosmetic because it's not pretty,” says Nawal Assad, a producer at al-Jazeera's London office.

… callers on Italian talk shows criticized as censorship the U.S. government's request to U.S. networks to refrain from showing the images. In Germany, the press has engaged in lengthy dissections of U.S. news organizations, often concluding that the U.S. media has gone through “Gleichschaltung,” an ominous word used to describe how the Nazis took over key public institutions, including the media (rough translation: “bringing into line”).
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB104854123024458400-email,00.html

[charlie]

11. I know

Took you long enough. Remember that it was largely the "far left" contingent here who were telling you that.

[Kool Kitty]

18. MSNBC, too.

Tweety's been drooling over him ever since he announced. This was the top news story damn near every day since Arnold threw his biceps into the ring.

[jpgray]

24. Wolf Blitzer in particular is hilarious when it comes to that

It's so obvious why--a big corporation is out first to make money. You can't blame them for that. Either they run the news as cheaply and profitably as they can (i.e. little research and or investigation, many call-in entertainment shows), or they run them keeping in mind what is best for their interests. What is best for a corporation is, I believe, very rarely what's good for the average American citizen. Before you argue with me, an example of what's best for a corporation would be, say, outsourcing jobs to India and Russia. The conflict is there and will be brought to a real ugly head eventually. We need to balance thigns out, but the foxes are watching the henhouse right now.

[tom_paine]

26. Can I hear an amen and hallelujah, Carlos! You've seen the light!

Isn't Goebbels v2.0 an insidious well-designed piece of Pravda. Hitler and Goebbels and Stalin and Molotov would have ADORED the Right-Wing Sub-Media and how it has parasitized the "Mainstream Media".

How they would love this Mighty Wurlitzer that can do Orwellian tricks standing on it's head.

CNNMSNBCFAUXAOLTIMEWARNER was campaigning for Ahnold.

A friend of mine recently saw it on a Russert CNBC interview with Franken and Tucker Carlson. Russert cut Franken off and literally refused to show Franken's book while at the same time flaunting Carlson's.

Now that you've awakened. Knowing that this has been going on all along, sometimes subtly, sometimes not so. Well, NOW what do you think?

Watch some more. Busheviks are everywhere and the slur and sligths are mutiple...even ABC's election night website has the parties labeled "Republican and Democrat". The Afrikaner Broederbund practiced a crude form of this media strategy leading up to their kicking out the "Liberal British" in 1948.

Welcome to the club. You've seen the Matrix, to methaporize the process...you've taken the red pill.

Now what do we do about it?

[benfranklin1776]

51. As Mother Jones said......

"Mourn the dead but fight like hell for the living."

[JanMichael]

71. What do we do about it?

From what I've seen I think it'll take a few years of the old Iron Heel to knock the media fog out of the average American's head.

Cooperative Commonwealth might be the only way. Stop running a society of the Profit for the Profit and by the Profit. Make any business that effects the lives of all, or most, people a Public one.

[JCMach1]

56. You got it, just count the number of minutes in stories

It will be dumbfoundingly one-sided.

[0rganism]

68. Ironically, a new gallup poll shows a plurality think it's "too liberal"

Someone just posted the poll in a GD thread.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. The Pukes Are Businesspeople And Do A Better Job Of Marketing...

NT

[tjdee]

3. Ding ding ding!

That's it.

Plain and simple.

I've said it before, I'll say it right now:

Every person working PR for the DNC should be fired, immediately.

[okieinpain]

19. I agree. this was a horrible, horrible, campaign.

.

[True_Blue]

61. The problem is

the GOP owns the media.

[wtmusic]

10. Sure, blame it on marketing

Anything but our well-intentioned, spineless Governor who simply wasn't up to the job.

[tjdee]

20. It's the same as charisma, IMO.

The entire marketing of the Democratic party is off.

Of COURSE a charismatic movie star is going to win against a boring boring boring guy. Regardless of party.

Gray Davis wasn't doing very well marketing himself.

[wtmusic]

5. California is a special case

We had a weak governor who paved the way for a charismatic star with no experience to win.

CA will still vote Dem by an overwhelming majority in '04.

[okieinpain]

21. yeah, right. a few months ago folks around here said don't worry

the recall will never happen. bush and company will spend billions on cali now. school programs will get funded, the deficit will go away. companies will hire now, even if they don't need extra help. oh, you better believe the sheeple will be lead to the cliff.

[TheDonkey]

6. The Media, afraid of appealing to the Democratic Base

Which is not leftist liberals. They are minorities, women, elderly, union workers, blue collar, etc.

Fuzzing the line bettween who is a Democrat and who is a Republican makes it much easier for rethugs to steal as they are better organized and better disciplined.

[Girlfriday]

8. If and that's a big if

Groper wins, and provided the race wasn't stolen, he cannot help but fail. Who's going to pull his ass out of the sling? He can't raise taxes, can't stop funding the mandated spending - what's he going to do?

[billbuckhead]

12. Race and taxes.

Dems raise taxes and are identified by white men as pro-black, pro immigrant and pro welfare.

[prolesunited]

14. But demographically

aren't white men becoming the new minority? I thought that was what the emerging Democratic majority was about.

[benfranklin1776]

45. Yes but the emerging majority has got to get to the polls damnit!

It is one thing to be theoretically a Democratic voter. It is quite another to be an actual voter.

This from the Wash Post analysis of the recall vote:

"Although Democrats outnumber Republicans in registration here, GOP turnout appeared to equal Democratic turnout,
according to the exit polls, and helped boost Schwarzenegger over the other candidates on the second part of the recount
ballot today."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A59434-2003Oct7?language=printer

Turnout should have matched registration. Fundamentals are important. They ain't sexy but they win elections. Phone banking, rides to polls, personal contacts and followups by committee prople. Recorded phone messages are nice but no substitute. That is why 2004 has to be the most concerted grass roots campaign we have ever undertaken since that will be the most effective antidote to Junior's corporate cash.

[Code_Name_D]

50. No kidding.

You would be lucky if some one at the DLC head qurters would even pick up the damn phone.

[benfranklin1776]

52. Screw the DLC. These things don't depend on them.

As for the DNC well that changes when state committee people change and state committee people change when local committee people change. So if you are unhappy at the direction of the party run for local committee person. Take the party back one precinct at a time.

[Yupster]

59. Blacks are going to stay at 12 %

or so of the population. It's hispanics that are becoming a bigger and bigger force in numbers nationally, and don't assume they will be automatic Democratic voters. They will have to be fought for.

[benfranklin1776]

63. No voter should ever be taken for granted ever.

However the message must be delivered to each voter and the mechanics of effectuating turnout need to be fine tuned.
But as you said in another post they must also have a reason to turn out, a new covenant for the future if you will, and that is where to begin with a finely tuned platform and then communicate that platform precinct by precinct and person by person. The corporate media is damn biased so we are going to have to start looking at ways around it both in terms of acquiring media infrastructure piece by piece as Al Gore was exploring and most importantly making state of the art investments in mobilization and grass roots activism. Use part of the money blown on thirty second attack ads to invest in basic permanent campaign infrastructure and it will pay off handsomely.

[prolesunited]

70. I definitely agree

We really need to just write off mainstream media. Their corporate tentacles are in far too many areas to responsibly serve as the Fourth Estate. The GOP is looking our for their interests and those of their elite executives. They are not going to allow that to change.

Grassroots activism will be the only way for us to win. Whenever I talk to people one-on-one about what is truly going on, they are in a state of disbelief and dismay. It will be up to us to get the truth out there. The more important point, as you mentioned, is getting people to the polls. So many people have given up on the political process, believing no matter who we put in there, we'll have the same results.

[okieinpain]

22. bush baby, bush. bush will send your tax dollars by the truck

load. you better believe things are going to get a lot better in cali. Arnold will look like a knight on a white horse.

[Code_Name_D]

47. Simple

Blaim the Dems in the state house.
You probably think I am kidding too.

[dolstein]

9. Not so fast

The difference between victory and defeat in 2000 was a few hundred voters in Florida (or one vote on the Supreme Court).

The difference between victory and defeat in 2002 was a few thousand votes in a handful of states.

In short, things could very easily have gone the other way. It's very easy to overlook this, and unfortunately, the media repeatedly magnifies the extent of the Republican "victory."

[mbee]

13. The DNC should attempt to verify the Democratic vote totals.

In fact, wouldn't they already pretty much know who Democrats were going to vote for?

[screaming_meme]

15. Dumbed-down public, right wing media, and electoral fraud

It's the only explanation. Like Michael Moore said, this country is overwhelmingly liberal. If they knew what we know, there's no way in hell they'd vote rethuglican. We have to get the word out either by democstrations or getting in the media's face about their lies.

[BigMcLargehuge]

16. because the majority of the electorate is lazy and ignorant

And do what the media tells them... if it actually tells them anything! Hours and hours and hours of worthless, brainless, overanalysis of non-events, spouting opinion programs masquerading as news...

A decline in the way WE WERE EDUCATED as kids, and it's getting worse, so that we lack critical thinking skills.

The inability to see anything resembling the whole picture. We see the little tiny slice that makes us feel good and we vote on that.

Yeah, I'm a little pissed right now.

[okieinpain]

23. easier way to say it is sheeple.

.

[Homer12]

17. The system is mostely fixed and most of our Leaders are spineless.

[John_H]

25. Think for more than half a second, please.

The surpreme court and the president's brother chose chimpy in 2000.

In 2002--thanks to the way we do the legislative branch and which seats were up, 11 percent of the people, mostly in red states, chose a third the senate. House incumbents win 99 percent of the time, and guys had flown planes into buildings resulting in a 68 percent popular president on election day.

In 2003, one guy spent millions to start a recall then ran a hollywood movie star against a 20 percent approval governor of california.

And we still got more votes than they did in every single one of those elections.

Think about it: if there was no Jeb or Scalia, Gore is president. If there were no september 11, 2002 would have been a typical midterm election. And if there were no Issa, there would be no Arnold.

They ain't winning shit. And it's time we start fighting like we know it.

[prolesunited]

27. I guess I'm just feeling a little demoralized tonight

Don't worry, I'll be fine tomorrow and fighting twice as hard. :D

[John_H]

33. 'atta boy (or girl)!

Time to fight!

[prolesunited]

35. I prefer 'atta woman!

;-)

[Mikimouse]

29. My answer to your question

After reviewing the recent voting histories in various parts of the country, I have come to a conclusion that is in agreement with many of the other replies to this thread. The repigs are much better at marketing, for one. They know the people they are targetting and how to sell to them. In the most recent case, they have played off of the name and face recognition of A.S. and the 'hero' image that he has fostered over the years. While it is true that we understand tha difference between reality and fantasy, it is likely that many people do not care to look at things so closely. This may be especially true when we are bombarded by the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. with distortions and outright lies 24/7. Just my opinion, but I feel that media constructions are becoming easier and easier to accomplish, simply because there are so many intellectually lazy people.

[prolesunited]

36. Actually, everything brought up in this thread

are the things that I had been thinking. I just needed affirmation to keep this cognitive dissonance from ringing in my head so loudly.

I agree about people being intellectually lazy. When somebody mentions a lie or distortion at work, I always set them straight and they walk away saying, "I didn't know that."

[Isome]

30. After this recall, I don't think I care anymore.

It takes too much energy. It causes too much angst.

If the sheeple in this country are ignorant and/or complacent enough to elect a man his own countrymen say is not qualified to run one of their towns (provinces?), they can't possibly be worth the effort. Our fellow citizens have chosen to ignore the theft of the 2000 election, cheered on the bombing & invasion of a war torn country out of vengeance for 9/11, justified the bombing, invasion & occupation of another because many thought it was connected to 9/11, hailed tax cuts they'll never see, and now this recall in CA.

I've reverted to my old wish: give them everything they ask for. They want to privatize the government, have at it. They want to eliminate public schools, bring in the demolition crew. They want to go to war with the world, bring back the draft, it won't affect me in the least. Californians want an inarticulate Austrian with no experience to be responsible for one of the largest budgets in the world, more power to 'em.

Some of us know how to be poor, are already a suspect group and live with daily suspicion/distrust, and have become experts at imitating the duplicitous nature of people who throw stones and hide their hands. When they finally experience just a fraction of what others have already spent a lifetime adapting to, maybe then they'll pull their heads out of their collective ass to see where they went wrong. In the meantime and in between time, I'm just too tired to give a damn.

[prolesunited]

32. Man, I thought I was feeling

a little demoralized. You certainly have me beat. I certainly understand where you are coming from, though. Please don't give up.

[rppper]

54. i have said this for the last 3 years

fuck the people...really...they wants it, they gets it. it is going to take nothing less than a shock to the entire system...neighbors being hauled away for religious or political views, or the lifting of posse comitatus, perhaps suspending the '04 elections or martial law....give it to us oh republican gods...give america what it needs....

i am sick of fighting it

i am so tired...bone aching tired

[salmonhorse]

31. They are too 'nambie pambie'...

Too civil. Too wrapped in the 'image' of civility (witness Maria tossing T-shirts; she wanted it so bad she was willing to toss it all away (seeing her drive a Hummer to Earth Day ought to be worth a 1,000 words at least, y'all)). Too ready to appear as though they are not willing to go toe to toe with re-publicans for the sake of their political skins alone. Too fractious. Not centered enough. Not near as ruthless, pissy, and mean spirited to rule. There are no left-wing Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Really O'Reillys out there there just aren't.

Where some may consider all such to be virtues; they are not so where 'the shit goes down' and that is from-where the seat of power is dispensed ~

[LalahLand]

34. too moderate; unwilling to differentiate themselves..

Its clear what the repubs stand for, but besides pro-choice/gay rights, etc. its not really clear what the liberals stand far as far as principles. When Democrats decide that its OK to be "left wing" leaning then I think we'll see an increase in public support.

[nwstrn]

37. Huh?

Arnie is pro choice/gay rights-and a Repub.

[EV1Ltimm]

38. like i said in another thread...

eddie izzard said: "It's 70% how you look, 20% how you sound and 10% what you say"

The republicans know how to win elections... get a rich, conceited, sharp dresser that knows how to work a crowd and voila, insta-lection.

nobody cares about substance anymore. people are probably more likely to vote for a barely-sentient candidate that calls his opponents pussies and gets into fistfights at local bars than someone who actually has a clue.

i'd like to think these people suffer from the harrison ford complex. they want to sleep soundly knowing that if their governor was on a plane hijacked by angry albanians, he could stealthly kill each and every one of them with nothing but his bare hands and a ball-point pen. and in true hollywood fashion, the last one would be thrown out the rear-end and explode just yards from the plane.

if we want a democrat to take the white house, lets have them keep their ideas and policies under wraps for the first 6 months of campaigning and make them brag about how many women they screwed in college and if they had a chance, they'd knock on that kim jong il fella's door and punch him right in the kisser when he answered.

he would be unstoppable!

[FDRrocks]

39. Need a new game plan.

I think Democrats need to take the soundbites back from the right wing, stop allowing them to frame the debate, and establish a more liberal way about themselves.

This DLC, pander-to-the-center-leftwing-is-extreme deal is absolutely nuts.

I'm still supporting Dennis. I will now throw my weight behind Dean if he gets the nod or Clark, just about any Dem really. Was thinking in the path of Dennis or Dean or Green. But I see all too well where this shit is leading.

We need to write our representatives en masse on the issue of voting machine without open source software and paper trails.

[JI7]

40. WHORE MEDIA

.

[RummyTheDummy]

41. Two words: Nancy Pelosi

Not just her specifically, but her whiney, do nothing, tone and actions. It's candy ass politics. To beat the pukes you have to play for keeps and all we do is play not to lose.

I also blame a lot of this on McAullife and the other party gliterati who have no backbone or burning desire to win elections. They'd rather sit back and covet the struggle and they're always two steps behind the Repukes.

[Carmerian]

42. One word : PURGE

They won't go by themselves, they have to be forced out. Remember, these are people who probably can't make a living outside of their nice party sinecures. They'll hang on for dear life because it's all they know, good of the party be damned.

[tishaLA]

48. I blame McAullife too dammit

bad strategist. poor messenger. throws good money after bad.

[Speck Tater]

43. Democratss keep losing because...

...They are failing in their solemn, sacred duty to be the opposition party to the Republicans. Instead they are falling in line behind the Repubs, and given the choice of voting for a real Repub or a fake Repub-look-alike, the voters choose someone who actually takes a stand: The real Republican.

If the Democrats started growing some backbones and started vocally standing up for what they claim to believe in they wouldn't keep coming across as wishy-washy and they wouldn't be loosing all the time.

In other words, the Dems of today just lack Dean-ness!

[Yavin4]

44. Democrats Trusts Corporations Too Much

What was have is total corporate control. Corporations control our government, our political parties, our politicians, and our media. The reason why the Democrats keep losing is because the party's leadership trusts these corporations. They think that the corporations will help them get elected, but they're dead wrong. The corporations no longer need the Democrats.

[Lori Price CLG]

46. They are not WINNING, they are STEALING.

Rove and Diebold are paving the way for multiple GOP coups.
-Lori Price

[Code_Name_D]

49. And the dems hall in the bricks

Haven't you heard, the DLC is taking Diebold's side of the black box issue. I am not foolling here.

[YourDad]

65. It's scary

I'm planning on moving out of the country as soon as I can and I feel like a jew in nazi germany, it seems so similar to what jews and others did right before the concentration camps came. The only ones who got out were the ones that got out early.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dover]

55. The elite have other designs, and government has always been

their nemesis (unless, of course, they can control it). This isn't about partisanship anymore. It's well beyond that. But we've kept that very narrow focus, which only helps them to run us through the rat maze. It's just too much of a shift in paradigms and consciousness for most people...

[oxycontinrush]

57. This was NOT a good test case of Democratic skills

I heard someone say somewhere in the coverage tonight that it was remarkable that Davis ever made it to Governor in the first place. They were right. He was in his best moments a very mediocre candidate that didn't stand for much and didn't inspire many. You don't have to work out at Gold's Gym to generate a following, but you do have to stand for something if you don't. Gray Davis didn't stand for anything. He's basically a decent man, but you need more. People like Davis need to be passionate and inspire, and he didn't.

Throw into the mix that Arnold had a KENNEDY wife working hard for him, and the fact there was only 2 months of campaigning that allowed TV buys to dominate the process much more than normal, and you have to write this off as a situation that was too weird to begin with.

[Yupster]

58. I keep saying

The Democratic Party needs a Contract With America.

Elect us and we will attempt to do the following five things.

I don't think the average person can say what the Democrats are trying to do.

When Bush runs for reelection, he will run on a very few issues and he will say them over and over again.

Every voter will know Bush is for tax cuts and going over there to fight terrorists.

It's hard to put a sentence to what Democrats want to do. A lot of times, when an answer does come out, the answer is raise taxes.

[gully]

60. Because liberals think for themselves...and at times that works

to our disadvantage.

Like BC said "Republicans fall in line" and until Liberals do the same, we'll struggle to win. We have less $$ by far, and if we don't stick together???

[Adjoran]

62. Quit whining!

I don't mean to sound harsh, but political parties aren't carried to victory by the faint of heart. There are nearly 200 million adults in this country; you just can't win them all, and sometimes you will lose a few in a row.

Everybody remembers Babe Ruth as the greatest baseball player of all time. He was one of the best hitters ever, along with Ted Williams, Joe Jackson, Rogers Hornsby, and Lou Gehrig. Many Americans know the magic number, the 714 home runs, even though Hank Aaron passed him on the all-time list.

But how many know that the Babe struck out 1330 times, nearly twice as often as he homered?

My point is that if Babe Ruth had gotten all choked up over striking out, and beat himself up over it and lost confidence in himself and his team, he never would have hit all those home runs.

While I'm throwing baseball analogies at you, let's talk about fans. In particular, fans of the Chicago Cubs and the Boston Red Sox. The Cubs last won the World Series in 1908. The Red Sox last won it in 1918 (with Babe Ruth PITCHING, btw). Yet their fans have filled the stands year after year of disappointment. They supported their teams, always among the leaders in attendance. "Lovable losers?" Not by a long shot. It doesn't take any effort to support a winner.

I hope nobody is crying over Gray Davis. We are well rid of him. He was once touted as a future Presidential candidate, but he can't even run California if the voters there are to be believed. The Democratic Party needs strong and effective leaders to offer the country. Those like Davis, who put their personal interests ahead of their state, country, and party, do not deserve our tears. Davis is just a strikeout for Democrats, nothing to obsess over. Let's look for the next home run!

Anybody who thinks we are going to win every election is in the wrong advocation. Try out some recipe boards, the competition isn't as fierce. Those who want to influence the future course of history need to be made of stronger stuff.

When Clinton shocked Bush I in '92, a lot of Democrats broke out the bubbly and started dancing to Fleetwood Mac. The Repubs started working and fighting, and took back the congress in '94 after over 60 years of Democratic dominance.

It's okay to cry in your beer tonight if you like. That's allowed. But I am willing to bet that Karl Rove declined the second glass of champagne, and made a few phone calls to operatives around the country before turning in tonight.

So what do we do tomorrow, then? Have a big pity party - or make some phone calls?

[YourDad]

64. Don't ever write off what happens behind the scenes

Millionaires and billionaires who are very determined to control America and very desperate don't play by the rules. A rigged voting count here and a stolen election there is something you cannot put past them

[Forkboy]

66. my 2 cents

in general I feel the Dems need to offer something besides "vote for me,I'm not as bad as the other guy".

[GOPBasher]

67. The Right Wing Propaganda Machine.

They have all the money, all the power, and all the media.

[farmbo]

69. This means nothing! A Perfect Storm blew Davis out of the water

The Perfect Storm:

1)General voter angst over CA's basket-case economy was laid, justly or unjustly, on Gray Davis' doorstep; 2) Pete Wilson's tripling of the car tax just kicked in last month with millions of tax increase notices going out by mail to voters during Mid-October; 3) Arnold's status as an 'outsider' bourne out by $10s of millions of slick TV ads; 4) The (!#*%$#@!)Kennedy- Schribers' willingness to whore themselves out for the GOP cause gave Democratic women the cover to ignore Arnold's groping and vote crossover, and; 5)California is, after all is said and done, star-crossed with the notions of fame, fortune and celebrity...and Arnold & Maria had it in spades.

Granted, much blame for the storm falls on Gray Davis and his advisor, Gary South. What were they thinking?

1. They TOTALLY misread the tea leaves by signing the bill granting drivers licenses to illegal aliens,after vetoing the same legislation last year.This was viewed, correctly, as a blatant pander to the Latino vote. Ironically, exit polls showed the measure only enjoyed 50% approval among Latino voters...and less than 30% approval among voters as a whole.

2. The car tax was their undoing. And the timing couldn't have been worse. Many CA voters recieved their increases by mail in late October. Presumably, that mailing could have been controlled until after the election, but wasn't. Alas...those notices may as well have been Arnold's campaign fliers. ( Just by the way, the tax itself was about as regressive a tax on working families as could have been concieved!)

3. They played the vast RW conspiracy card-- backed up by negative ads against Arnold-- instead of going after him on the issues. Normally, this would not be an unreasonabe, since it just happens to be true. But Davis has been tagged, by Dems as well as Repubs, as a chronic negative campaigner, thus practicing 'politics as usual': in contrast to Arnold the 'new' outsider.