What do you think about pressuring Dem leaders for an "exit strategy?"

[mzmolly]

I don't think it's reasonable to say "out now" without considering the consequences. I also don't think it's reasonable to say "we can't leave now" without considering the consequences.

Thus, I propose that a Democratic think thank, senators, congress people, military officials, middle east diplomats etc. - devise and propose a formal exit strategy and DEMAND Bush use it. This of course needs to be done quickly and perhaps organized by the DNC.

I think we need to take this in steps personally, though I support OUT NOW in principal we have to have a reasoned cohesive PLAN in order to be taken seriously IMHO.

I think this approach is less divisive and accomplishes the goal at the same time. It also puts Bush in a position to defend staying when we've given him a road map out.

I don't have all the answers, but I do expect our leaders to have some.

[LandOLincoln]

1. You should get out more, Mzmolly.

General Clark has been proposing an exit strategy for some time now, most recently in meetings with the Out of Iraq Caucus in Congress:

"September 22, 2005

After hearing a presentation from retired Gen. Wesley Clark on Tuesday night, a bloc of House Democrats who have been calling for an immediate withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq admitted Clark's comments are prompting them to take a new look at the issue.

Clark met privately with the members of the Out of Iraq Caucus to give them his perspective on the ongoing conflict and offer advice on how Democrats should frame their arguments for bringing troops home. His call: Avoid specific timelines for withdrawal and focus instead on calling for and developing strategies for success that rely not on the military, but on diplomacy."

Read the entire article here:

http://securingamerica.com/

[mzmolly]

9. Where's the exit plan?

In addition, I proposed a cohesive plan endorsed by the DNC with many people working together - one of which should be Clark.

I don't like your snotty "you should get out more" statement. I'll refrain from saying what I would like to in regard to that BS as it's against the user rules to do so.

[LandOLincoln]

28. I'm sorry you've reacted with such hostility

to an offhand remark that was meant to be funny.

As for Clark's exit strategy, you would only have had to "get out more" on the DU itself, since it was widely discussed here and on many of the other political blogs after his 8/26/05 article in WaPo:

http://securingamerica.com/articles/wapo/2005-08-26

And as for the link in my earlier post, I believe it demonstrates that what you're calling for is already happening. Clearly some prominant Democrats are already beginning to rally around a plan proposed by a Democrat they recognize as being uniquely qualified by training and experience to formulate such a plan in the first place.

[mzmolly]

32. Clark has said brilliant things on foreign policy

but I am not talking about backing any one individuals so called plan. Kerry had similar suggestions to what Clark proposes here, as did Dean - who consulted with Clark. This is a good beginning, but we need an actual nuts and bolts plan put out by the DNC or the Senate or ? The plan should state what we need in order to bring out troops home in very specific terms.

I am sorry if I took unnecessary offense to your off hand remark.



One never knows when someone here is just being an asshole or trying to be humorous.

Thanks for sharing the article, I'll bookmark this bad boy. Again, my apologies.

[LandOLincoln]

34. Well, THIS one is often an

asshole who is also trying to be humorous, so don't feel too bad.

"One never knows when someone here is just being an asshole or trying to be humorous. "


Also, while I knew Wes's WaPo article had come out shortly before Katrina, I was thinking that it had been a week before. Didn't realize it had been a mere 3 days before landfall, on the very day Governor Blanco declared a State of Emergency.

So all things considered, I think you can be forgiven for missing it. back atcha...

[patcox2]

2. I think its doing Rove's work for him.

Dems aren't required to have a perfect solution for the republican-made problem.

[LittleClarkie]

3. I think, that no matter if their stance is "out now" or "stay the course"

or "here's what I think we need to do to win" it's all kind of useless. They're not in power. So they're either me too-ing, or coughing up perfectly good plans the Boy King is NEVER going to follow.

And most folks will continue to say they don't have a plan anyway.

Until we're in power again, it's all just ... (suitable metephor here, as all that comes to mind for me is "farts into the wind" which doesn't seem appropriate somehow, and makes me want to break into a Kansas song... still not getting enough sleep, can you tell...?)

[LandOLincoln]

8. Clark knows there's virtually no chance that BushCo

will adopt his plan; what he says is, IF THEY DON'T, then the American people will be fully justified in demanding our exit from Iraq.

In other words, this could--if just this once the Dems could manage to present a united front on the issue--innoculate us against the inevitable charges from the Right that we want to "cut and run," and from the Left that we want to "stay the course."

[bemildred]

4. Here's a plan:

Let me just say something about how to withdraw. This is my plan. Hey, if Tom Hayden is qualified to write up exit strategies, why not an old grunt like me, eh?

The Plan: The National Command Authority orders all US forces redeployed out of Iraq within one month and out of the theater in two months. Any commander that fails to meet the deadline will be summarily relieved, and replaced with a commander that will thereby be placed on a shorter timeline. I can promise anyone who has no experience of the military that this is perfectly feasible, and that with that kind of command emphasis, the mission can and will be accomplished.

http://www.counterpunch.org/goff08252005.html

[mzmolly]

10. That's better then no plan at all.

[bemildred]

21. In the end, that will be the plan ...

[Ian_rd]

5. God forbid the Democrats actually propose a plan of some sort (nt)

[MadHound]

6. The sad thing is that there is no map, and we really have only two choices

Stay or go. Sure, we can try to draw the troops down gradually, but that will put our remaining troops in ever increasing danger. And while we draw down troops, the chaos in Iraq will increase at a directly proportional rate. Thus our only true choices are stay and fulfill whatever the fuck the mission is, or go, now, out immediately.

No matter what tact we choose, the one thing that is guaranteed is an Iraqi civil war. Any government or governing structure that the US has even just breathed on is going to be considered illegit and illegal by a significant portion of the Iraqi population, and they will fight and tear it down. And there is nothing that we can do to prevent this. It doesn't matter how long we stay, what we do, how quickly or slowly we withdraw, what kind of monies we pay as reparations, it is still going to come down to a civil war when we leave.

And thus, if that is what the outcome is going to be, no matter what we do, then the only logical conclusion is to not to continue to be part of the problem in Iraq, and we should leave now. Should we pay reparations, yes, by all means. But all we're doing by our continued presence is adding more fuel to the fire. Thus, we should leave now, and make profound apologies and reparations, and do what we can to cleanse this country of the Bushit.

[mzmolly]

11. Interesting food for thought.

I bet your right. We are indeed in a no win here and many of us knew that when we opposed the war.

[jonnyblitz]

29. good post. you would think this was obvious. nt

[Catchawave]

7. Replacing Rumsfeld would be a good starting point !

It's been like having another "Brownie" in charge of the Pentagon. And you know what happens to high ranking military officials who criticize the Bushies...Buh'Bye!

[mzmolly]

12. Here here. Exit plan section 1A FIRE RUMMY!

[seabeyond]

13. we have heard dems talk about this. we have heard of kerry

talk about this. yes, this is a ways they can be prodded i think. we need to get bush to talk about it though. even repug representitives want bush to talk about this. we just cant get bush to talk about this

[mzmolly]

14. Well we'd have to take it in steps. Bush says "we can't give a time line"

yada yada. But we can presumably ask what the frikken "goal" was going in and how he will measure when he attains that goal right? Perhaps when/if the Dems develope a cohesive strategy the press questioning will follow and * will have to talk about it?

Kerry and other Dems have harped on a strategy and said that we need one, but my vision is a cohesive one that involves even the UN in planning. And, it needs to be done quickly if possible. A gal can dream right?

[seabeyond]

that is what kerry was advocating. bringing in the middle east,

bring in u.n. bring in the othr nations that have stayed away because of bush. they are all going to continue to stay away as long as bush is there. i believe, kerry had the support of the world, when he was running. why it was so important to get kerry in. what kerry and others want to do isnt going to work with bush.

[mzmolly]

18. Yep it sure was ...

but we need to do it even though * is in the OO. We need to do an "end around." I don't know that it will bring Bush to his senses, but it may bring the American people to theirs and I still believe WE have the power.

[LittleClarkie]

15. Even Kerry seems to be losing hope in that avenue

He told Cindy that if we can't get freedom for the Iraqi people, he doesn't want any more soldiers to die for the war. It sounds like his personal deadline is December, when elections are supposed to happen. After that, if it all goes to hell, I think the Winder Soldier will be arriving shortly after. That's my take anyway.

[seabeyond]

17. dec., i think so. i agree with you post n/t

[mzmolly]

19. Interesting. Perhaps Dems are waiting/watching

as you suggest?

[0007]

16. It would be great if you can find out where they hide these days.

[mzmolly]

20. I think the philosphy is ...

not to intervene when Republicans are hanging themselves? But, I do think we could accomplish this behind the scenes and release a cohesive plan this winter?

[The_Casual_Observer]

22. Cut to the chase. Identify another bad ass secular Iraqi

hand him the keys and get the hell out. It couldn't possibly get any worse than it is now, and it is inevitable.

[mzmolly]

23. You are likely correct. I just hate to see women lose rights in this so

called liberation and they are so likely to at this point. Gawd what a mistake this war was.

[welshTerrier2]

24. pressuring? we should vote them out if they won't represent us ...

52% of the American people (recent NY TIMES / CBS poll) want "immediate withdrawal" and you're worried about the consequences of having our elitist, who cares what the grassroots thinks Democrats having to actually respond to the majority??

isn't that the way democracy is supposed to work ??

[mzmolly]

26. I'm not worried about Dems responding to the majority -

I'm worried about what's left behind if we leave immediately, frankly. I do agree that democracy should represent the people, but as you know America is fickle.

[Cleita]

25. Well, everytime one of them writes me for money or

to sign a petition, I answer by asking them to begin whatever it will take to impeach Bush/Cheney. I'm a regular broken record about that. I could add this also.

[mzmolly]

27. Thanks.

[pinto]

30. I think "exit strategy?" is a good question to pose to any and all.

[Dhampir Kampf]

31. Agreed.

Totally. The fact that it's, "There is no time-table; there is still a lot of work to be done, but it is getting down", has been old since before the 'war' even started. And something needs to be drafted one way or the other.

[mzmolly]

33. Thanks

and WELCOME TO DU!