Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Why aren't American universities hotbeds of unrest?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:18 PM
Original message
Why aren't American universities hotbeds of unrest?
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 02:22 PM by BurtWorm
Or are they?

PS: I figure "no draft" is key. But then the draft wasn't an issue when college students stormed deans' offices to urge divestiture from companies doing business with apartheid South Africa.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. two words : NO DRAFT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
72. You are correct. And the universities are filled with the shallow "echo"
generation. They have not had to think at all let alone to think critically.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiviaOlivia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
104. I disagree. It's economics.
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 12:33 AM by LiviaOlivia
I would argue that the cost of education is so staggering that students
are fearful of making waves. This isn't the 60's or 70's economically.
A lot of rich ones don't have an interest, inkling or they like the world the way it is and the poor ones with loans live in fear.
The foreign students just want a degree and wouldn't jeopardize that for chucking rocks at cops.
Remember the Patriot Act.

It is a different world. Fear rules. IMHO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Holly_Hobby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. No draft? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mutley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. MY University happens to be a hotbed of
APATHY! x(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. good question
any college folks here who can fill us in? I suspect once a draft is initiated the hotbeds will abound.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dretceterini Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. as a retired professor...
I would say collegees are now about students finding a way to make great sums of money, and not about politics or even humanism..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yorkiemommie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
7.  not like when i was in college
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 02:27 PM by yorkiemommie1
no draft now and also students are aware that it's a rough world out there in BUSHLAND, no health benefits, the corporations seeking to dump you at will...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. that too
but the lack of a draft helps... once a draft starts they wont be able to make that money

;-)

Oh and welcome to DU and thanks for trying to teach these days I wonder why people still try...

(I have tried to get a job at a JC but oh never mind, who cares about history after all)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. I think you are spot on!
I saw a special (MTV? Sorry I don't recall where) & they interviewed young people, high school & college age & almost all of them said their main goal was to make money & lot's of it. Doctors & lawyers were the two top occupations they were considering.

I'm not surprised, though. Look how many of the young people of the '60s are now deeply ensconced in the material life style, capitulating to their corporate masters, conforming to the 'accepted' way of life, no longer questioning authority.


BTW, welcome to DU! :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sick_of_Rethuggery Donating Member (853 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. As a current professor :-)
I have thought long and hard about this and here are my conclusions:

1. Students are older on average (making them more preoccupied with
money issues on the one hand and leaving them little spare time on
the other, because they typically hold down jobs to support
themselves/family).

2. Professors themselves are fairly passive and quiet about everything
-- I have had students tell me that no professor ever talks to them
for any length of time at all -- they keep fewer office hours and
are themselves chasing the almighty dollar most of the time.

3. Humanities and history/politics departments are treated like second
class citizens on college campuses and that depressing aura seeps
inevitably on to students too.

4. As others said, no draft, so the Neimoller rule applies...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #20
87. i second this for the most part.
but then, the schools i went to had no big "school spirit" kick, so thankfully sports weren't exuding their well-known soporific amnesia aura.

this following stuff isn't to the poster above, who wrote a very smart analysis, but to the topic in general:

basically -- we're all too freakin' busy trying to SURVIVE. we have to run full tilt to stay in place. and that's how the system likes it. and that's why so many youth i come in contact with have ZERO INTEREST in making america their future. stick a fork in us, we're done. someone else bother carrying the torch, or as many of us think, the big sack of soggy shit filled with pissed off cats for good measure.

what's left that's salvageable? honestly. what's left? and why must it land to US to save what the adults screwed up. hey, i live light, as do most young people; we can hop, skip, and jump right outta here -- and that's what we are preparing to do. we barely had a vote in this, we barely had a chance to even enter the workforce and middle management positions and actually DO something. hey, it's the rest of you older people that have plenty of things to worry about. most of your assets and life experience is tied up to here. why aren't you changing stuff? why aren't we, who have far less at stake and believe in the system far less than you, allowed to follow your wise lead and patiently wait 'til this whole fiasco of gov't peters out? 'cause we're young and have good legs and strong backs? proxy war? please.

like i've heard said before, wake me when you wanna really do something. otherwise it's all pretty words and colorful posters. and we're not interested in holding the bag this time...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sick_of_Rethuggery Donating Member (853 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #87
98. Since you do have the time & nothing much to lose, my concrete suggestion
to you would be to form a network of youngish people throughout the country and run 435 + 100 fresh new faces for Congress.

Look, you are absolutely right in your analysis -- but by the same token, you also have a lot more to gain if you can turn things around.

Not the least of which is saving the very planet itself.

You may run from here because you are forced to, but which part of these earth is now safe from the deadly clowns' reaches?

This cannot be done just by the young people, I agree. But older people have either gone too far down the wrong path (like those currently in power) or are too apathetic and fatalistic about it (like those currently not in power :-)) and the vast majority not in either of these two classes are either too blase or too busy to bother undertaking the enormous task of re-orienting the nation.

You all, on the other hand, have much to gain by investing a few years in setting the world right again -- it is your life, we screwed it up alright, but you are going to pay one way or the other. So you have to provide at least the fire -- and at the same time, put the fogies on notice that it is your world and you are here to claim it.

While we did screw it up, we did give you the internet: use it to organize a revolution and throw the bums out.

I am NOT being facetious: I am not normally a revolutionary. I have saved up enough from my short career thus far to live the rest my life frugally, esp in India; I would like nothing better than to go back to India and settle down in a lovely village and read all the books I am planning on taking back with me.

However, I feel now that I cannot rest until this inane phrase "popular war" (and all that it represents) is retired forever from this country (I honestly do not know any even semi-advanced nation where war is measured by popularity -- there is something fundamentally wrong with this notion -- most people think of their defense forces as just that: defending forces). My other mission is also to make education the largest single expenditure of the Government :-) (I am not *that* old ;-) so I can still dream)

I will personally come help you barnstorm and take the country back to the future: this is my pledge to you on behalf of all the students that I have felt immensely sad about over the years of my teaching (I went to a top-rated university in India that was subsidized heavily by the Govt and the small tuition fee was paid by parents and my heart really aches for my students here in the US: the Govt does not think it important to pay for education, the parents most often cannot afford it and so the vast majority of them struggle through college in some numb determination to get that scrap of paper that might one day in some distant future earn them more money -- I would rather they thought about the hashing function I teach them about in class and give flight to youthful imaginings of a peaceful and peaceable world).

Caution: Do not feel that I am bad-mouthing my adopted country (I reserve that for only the neocon fundamentalist bigots :-)) I have always felt that I am an American in spirit and am rather offended by the trashing of it by people who profess false patriotism.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. :) we do what we can with what we have. but thanks for the support
bless you, your enthusiasm is greatly appreciated.

honestly, there is a lot of young people getting involved in college, and far more than they were around the late 1990s. been in college back then and currently and have seen the difference. running for office, though, requires obscene amounts of funds and time, and that's not something college kids have a lot of. we're running off of ramen and stress and 4 hours of sleep a night. so as delightful this idea is, we haven't a) the experience or credentials b) the squeeky clean lifestyle c) money d) big-name connections e) the time. we can help where we can, but asking this of us, i believe, is a bit much. now, we can try it here and there, but i wouldn't put too much stock into it.

so i was thinking about what i heard and replied a bit and i think what is most upsetting is it feels like the older generation is believing the hype. not only the overblown nostalgia of the past (it was mostly when the blue collar guys and white collar guys got involved in the same direction did things start to change) but believing the dead silence or slander from modern mainstream media. it's like having to fight two battles, and that's just not fair. it's an incredibly bad habit among liberal circles to circle the wagons and shoot at each other. we got to be pragmantic how much a certain group can do and not belittle them for providing only up to their means. it's like crying for a pony and complaining about all your other birthday gifts in front of the givers -- the only result will be fostering more resentment.

outside of young democrats there's a huge amount of youth groups working to stop this. but we aren't at the stage of life to run for office and win as readily as other age groups. sure there's the odd exception that hits the papers, but that's why they hit the papers. so, as much as i love your idea, you might be better off campaigning yourself or assisting another like-minded peer. what would be really helpful is asking surveys of college kids to find out what would bring them out to vote for you as mayor or post master general or whatever.

and thanks so much for your support. trust us, we wanna make a better world, but we're so thoroughly disillusioned with the system we find no other answer besides letting it collapse upon itself or active destruction. that's where the older adults come in. these adults are the system. you're asking us to fight you. why? you have more money, more resources, more contacts, more experience, etc. and if you really gave it everything you got -- and failed, how are we supposed to fix it with less money, less everything else (hey, we don't have the luxury of time. period. except trust fund babies and that doesn't count)? what example of peaceful change is left? thus you see why we feel there is only one solution left, and why it pains us to contemplate it. we'll do it, but we wait for the older adults, who have so much more to lose, decide when they are ready. the only thing to do in the meantime, until the older generation is ready, is bide time, survive, and escape. unless you have a better idea and a plan to pull it off, apathy is the final solution.

it's like sitting at the deathbed of your nation, writhing in pain, with everyone you know and love dangerously interconnected. how long do you wait? when can you let go? are you ready to say good bye? are they ready to say good bye? any last words or actions? choose now because the transition is coming.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
101. As a writing teacher at a major university...
The critical thinking skills of my students are superior.
They don't revolt for the same reason WE don't revolt.

In the 1960's cultural revolution was a fresh idea. Cultural revolution is now a marketing tool used to package 'Xtreme Fruit Chews' and the like. How do you rebel when the corporate capitalist state co-opts your rebellion and markets it back to you?

How do you tell kids that they can change the world through 'the power of the people' now that the news media find peaceful demonstrations passe?

They are not wise enough yet to intuit how dangerous this political situation is. My question, I suppose, is why we fantasizing that kids just out of high school will fight our battles?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CitrusLib Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. Agreed and I think it's been that way for some time.
I started college when Reagan was still in office and the political apathy on campus was palpable. It was a state university of over 26,000 and they couldn't even muster an anti-apartheid rally! The students just wanted to get their degrees and get into the corporate world making 40K+ right off the bat. I think the sense of entitlement started during the 80's.

I don't see politics returning to college campuses in a big, meaningful way until there is a draft. Unless they are directly affected, the youth of today will keep their blinders on and let mom and dad frame their political beliefs. I've lost count of how many 20-somethings can't tell me what they believe or why, but they can tell me who they voted for because that's who mom and dad told them to vote for. Disgusting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
42. Yep, and when I look back, I was the same way.
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 04:20 PM by fudge stripe cookays
Same exact sitch-- started college in late 84, state U. Didn't know squat about politics, and didn't care. Hated the whole concept.

All I knew was that my mom had hated Jimmy Carter-- called him "That stupid peanut farmer." And since Reagan ran against Carter, I assumed that meant that Reagan had to be the better guy, because that's who mom voted for.

It wasn't until the pro-choice issue slapped me square in the face in 1994 that I had a rude awakening, and realized what was going on. I voted for Big Dawg in 96-- my first election, but didn't start voting in the smaller elections until I moved into a cute older neighborhood (good job-- I could finally afford to live where I wanted to), and my polling place was mere steps from my house. So with all the signs out, I always knew when the elections were. And I always voted for whoever the D was, or whoever I read the best things about in the Observer.

It wasn't until 2000 that I finally began realizing how incredibly serious everything was. When I saw Howard Dean speak in Dallas in 2003, my life was changed forever. Causes became my THING.

FSC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Interesting side point there.

"I saw Howard Dean speak in Dallas in 2003, my life was changed forever."

So Dean was correct. Campaigning in "red" states DOES make a difference.

I just hope the next Democratic presidential candidate realizes this. Even if not, there is still hope as the DNC will at least have an active presence in those states by then (by next year, actually).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #45
60. Oh HELL yeah!
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 07:12 PM by fudge stripe cookays
And just think-- Bush hadn't pissed off as many conservatives then as he has now....

We could do some SERIOUS converting here for the 2006 election.

Not only did he convert me, but I managed to convert my mom (a diehard racist, gay-bashing Republican) into working side by side with the Dean volunteers in Austin. Even the gay ones.

The woman has done a complete 180. I don't recognize her. Dean got 2 MAJOR volunteers. One of whom managed to get untold numbers registered to vote and educating East Texas folks outside Dallas. I made my mom a Democrat. I can die happy now.

FSC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CitrusLib Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #42
55. Very cool story.
I was the opposite. I despised Reagan because my parents did. I was lucky that I had a kick-ass Civics teacher my senior year of high school who assigned me the task of following our senators for the year. One was a Democrat and one was a Republican (Mack Mattingly and Sam Nunn). Independent confirmation that my heart and soul was with the Democrats, LOL.

My first Presidential election was Dukakis v. Bush the Elder. I didn't know about absentee ballots and drove 3 hours back home from college to pull the lever, then turned around and drove the 3 hours back to school. In a blinding rain storm. Up hills. Both ways.

I was lucky enough to see Clinton at a rally in Atlanta a few weeks before the '92 election. It is truly an incredible way to see the candidates. I don't think anyone can see how charismatic some of these guys are just from TV. It must be experienced live. How cool Dean changed your life. A moment to treasure!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Whaddya mean "moment?"
Try "moments!"

:P

I signed up on every list at the rally, and became a diehard volunteer, tabled at events, went to Iowa twice to canvas (once in 8 degrees!), started my own meetup group, and did tons of things I'd never done before.

Including starting conversations with complete strangers about politics (once with 3 teenage boys at an Einstein Brothers on my lunchbreak).

I was there for "the Scream." THAT was a moment to treasure above the others!

:hi:
FSC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #59
64. I didn't know you were there for
"THE SCREAM", FSC! That is sooooooooo HISTORIC of you! :patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #64
93. Thanks zid!
It felt pretty great!

I usually send people into giggles when I tell them one of my main memories of Iowa is driving around BFE in the freezing cold (near the outskirts of Fort Dodge somewhere), the only chick in a van full of gay men, completely lost, and listening to Triumph the Insult Comic Dog.

Too bad I won't be having grandkids, huh?
;-)
FSC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CitrusLib Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #59
95. Agree with Zid. Very historic indeed!
And yes, your subsequent story had me giggling. A great way to start my morning. What a time you had! I'm jealous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pstokely Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
86. What are we waiting for, lets bring back the unrest
Edited on Thu Sep-29-05 04:57 AM by pstokely
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. If the students I teach bothered to read the news, listen to anything
but the latest popular tune, or watch anything but "reality" TV, they might be inclined to get a bit restless -- but all that is apparently far too dull/stressful/unrelated to their lives to interest them.

Yes, I'm generalizing -- so all of you students who think I'm being unfair, untwist your knickers. I'm not suggesting that ALL college students are apathetic twits; indeed, just by reading this, you are defying the stereotype.

Still, while you're frothing over how unfair I'm being, consider how it feels to toss out a reference to a recent event to a class full of blank stares. I teach history, and my students often ask "how does all this stuff apply to me?" Sometimes it's useful to make broad comparisons to current events to help them understand -- a process that has become nigh near impossible, lately.

I despair. I really do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #19
82. But can you blame them? For one thing, how many adults except people
Edited on Thu Sep-29-05 03:00 AM by Beam Me Up
like us pay that much attention to politics? Why expect the kids to be any different?

But there is more. It is SCARRY for them. I mean that in a totally legitimate sense. In the past couple years I've 'educated' two young men, both in their early to mid twenties, who never before paid much attention to 'politics.' The more I talked with them the more concerned they became because they could SEE that what I was telling them was true: The United States Government is in the hands of extremists who are stealing it blind and steering it toward a terrifying catastrophe. Whether intentional or not, it is a genuine threat to their futures. (Edit: It is true, but even here on DU, many of us do not really want to believe this is real, believe that this is actually happening, that it could in fact get MUCH WORSE. It's too terrifying to contemplate. These young people want to believe they're lives will have a future; but the prospect of this -- and what it means if taken seriously -- is in itself terrifying to contemplate.)

Little by little, they 'got it'. THEIR lives and the lives of everyone they know are in danger. Both of them have become more active politically; one actually hangs out here on DU and has become quite addicted to it. He is also a student so he doesn't have unlimited free time. He spends lots of time conversing via email and in chat rooms with other studens and he often brings politics into his discussions with them. The other fellow is more a 'new media' (swarmer) guy and likes to put together DVD 'art' pieces that are a collection of both interestingly weird and more overtly political stuff. One has a commercial done in Japan staring Arnold Swartzneger (speaking Japanese, selling some kind of soda pop), a documentary on how to avoid getting busted for drug possession, an animated art piece entitled "Dear Mr. President," along with a 9/11 conspiracy piece and much more. In some ways they seem completely unrelated but taken together they form a 'media savvy' perspective. He just makes them and gives them away to people. We're considering setting up a bit torrent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
75. As alumni and a Graduate Student
Edited on Thu Sep-29-05 01:51 AM by SammyBlue
Under-graduates fall under two categories.

Apathetic loser or uninformed zealots.

on edit: Go to my DU Post of old to read why College students suck and don't care.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #75
89. All I ever heard about UoA was...
that it was a superficial, coke-addled shithole for spoiled brats with $1000 week habits and penchant for lame parties.

or as you said, fake plastic people. my sympathies.

but perhaps i heard wrong, from several different sources, and my reading of your screed was shadowed by such hearsay.

never really had that problem in the universities i went to. oh yes, there's always the business and economics dept. that carries it's unfair share of spoiled brats, but if you applied yourself you could theoretically come out with quite a bit of knowledge, like in just about every dept.

but i guess i've been spoiled that most of the encounters i've had were of people moderately versed in politics and current events. but then, it might be location, location, location... also found that, even for our bad reputation of neurotic activism, SF bay area is pretty patient in suffering fools (otherwise sproul plaza would be a melee each and every day).

that said, all places have a diverse array of personalities in some way (at least in my muddled, charitable-cynic, bay area mind they do) and if you look at the right places, or say the right things to make someone open up, you can be presently surprised how up to date and real they are. or maybe i live in a land of naive dreamers which tend to attract more of the same and thus my sampling pool is all out of whack. hmm, probably the latter. :7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. Two reasons
No draft yet, and sad to say, a lot of universities are filled with Reagan babies, used to living a comfortable, sheltered, self centered life. If some issue doesn't effect them directly, then for the most part they don't care. They have had their heads filled with hate and propaganda all of their lives, and are incapable, or unwilling, to sort the truth from the spin.

I know, I know, this doesn't apply to all college students. But sad to say, it does apply to the majority.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. bingo! these are kids who've known
No Draft
No Energy Shortages
No Cold War

And they've never known a time with
No MTV
No Microwave
No ATM

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. also they don't know what it was like before Roe V. Wade
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
49. black student apathy gets me....many know nothing abt the sacrifices of
the civil rights movement
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Good response
As someone who worked at two different universities, the apathy is overwhelming! The only thing that lights a fire under most, is if it affects them personally. There is no sense of social justice. The "protesters" are reviled at universities now as fringe elements. It is very sad indeed. And many of the students are coming to us as conservatives, and leaving the universities as such, which is very sad, IMO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks for posing this question...
I've been meaning to post this.

Where are the student strikes? The walkouts, teach-ins? Where are the student voices?

I do remember a fairly large protest/walkout on my campus right before the Iraq invasion. However, it only lasted ~3 hours and since that time there has been almost nothing.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. The generational divide isn't the same as it was during the 60's.
The present day youth/counter-culture movement is practically non-existent.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. Only GOP families can afford the tuition????
Everyone else is going part time to community and state schools, and working three jobs to pay for classes????

And then there is the large percentage of well fed, don't care, fashion conscious, partying types...the Spring Break crowd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. Simple answer
It's difficult to yell loud on an empty stomach.

Let's not forget one of the first things to come from this administration was the reduction of funds for higher education. All the college students I know are doing what they can just to get by.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. good point
in the 60's you could live comfortably working part-time
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
36. What college is that?
Hell, the students here all drive BMWs, SUVs, duallie pickups. And we're a state university. Data indicates that college continues to be disproportionately white and middle to upper class. They all bitch about costs, for sure, but that doesn't stop the rampant consumerism they and their parents display.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #36
56. Iowa, Oklahoma and Texas
A few Chicago-area ones too. I'm not sure which schools you've been visiting, but I've yet to meet a college student who drives a Beamer.

For the record, I'm white and middle class. Being so doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joebert Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #56
74. Colorado State's parking lots are overflowing with cars
Everybody drives. Many are brand new shiny SUVs and trucks.

We have empty city buses.

These kids have more important things than politics to worry about.

Clothing brands
Hey, shouldn't we be watching Melrose Place? I mean <insert inane show here>
We all have to be strong individualists, now we're supposed to wear one sweatband on our left wrist this semester?


When I went to CSU we picked on CU:Boulder for being rich. Now they're just a college down the street with a professional football program.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #56
76. maybe it's more of an
east coast or rich-school type of thing, from my experiences...I've spent time at Virginia, Maryland, NC State, Emory and a lot of other universities, and many of the students came from well-off families raised in the exurbs so they were very disconnected with the world around them, other than class, sports, and parties.

FWIW, my ex-gf went to school at SMU (Dallas), and she never passed up a chance to tell me how rich and influential the school and student body were...She drove a BMW while there, lol

hell, i knew some high-schoolers back in the day that drove (their own) BMWs to school
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #76
94. Yep, that's SMU alright.
You can pretty much peg those kids out of any crowd you're in (epsecially if you're in any of the businesses from about Northwest Highway south to Woodall Rogers, and from about Preston to Abrams.

They just reek of consumerism, ennui, and shallowness. I've met ONE GUY who is the exception, and he's there on scholarship.
FSC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #56
77. As someone who worked at two different universities...
...I have met SEVERAL students with Beamers and credit limits higher than my salary and I worked for a state university in Oklahoma for 4 years! I have also been to over 50 campuses country-wide and it is very similar, except private universities. Want to see real wealth? Go to Washington University in St. Louis. Their first-year student residence halls (dorms) were nicer than my damn apartment!

College culture, like society in general, is always changing. We are, unfortunately, in a neo-conservative phase.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #36
90. i only see that in certain schools...
and they tend to be private or acceptable to the WASPy, mid-upper class, spoiled brat crowd.

needless to say, such places are wholly inferior places to learn. at least where i am. the students there do not take their studying seriously and the teachers know and don't bother wasting their time. and they are horrible distractions, too. thank god i only had to visit or take a class or two and then mercifully flee immediately after.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. the draft would get the college crowd interested in politcs fast. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. Because college students are younger than they used to be.
I mean socially younger. Because college has gotten so much more expensive, kids are reliant financially on mom and dad, and that means it takes them a lot longer to break away from their parents' influence.

College students now are like high school students of a generation ago. (sweeping generalization, I know: I apologize to all you mature college students!) They don't question authority until they're a lot older.

Anyway, that's my theory.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. Absolutely...
They are also much more dependent on mom and dad for hourly support and direction, hence the new term "helicopter parents" because they hover over the college student. We have allowed college to be an extension of junior high. If a student doesn't like a test, the student just calls home and mom and dad bitch to the president of the University. I believe Colgate University is taking the lead on putting a stop to this by not responding to parents in this manner. The kid is not a kid, but an adult and can and SHOULD look out for themselves. So they are leaving here not having to be responsible for anything, let alone whether or not we should be the personal pawns of El Presidente for Life.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
63. Ok so I was not dreaming
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 07:24 PM by nadinbrzezinski
I have said it before I was a medic in Tijuana, and one fine day we had this kid who ahem crashed.. DUI.. he also had a 1911 .45 ACP in the car and only reason I can tell the story, he was too damn drunk to work the gun.

To make a long story short, the judge gave him the max (it was a crash and a three year old died that day)... but daddy, a lawyer from up north gave the most disgusting speech I have ever heard to the judge as to why Junior was not really up to his responsiblity....

Now back then, almost 13 years ago, I thought it has to be this kid... but noooo... we increasingly got parents coming down whenever junior got in trouble and at times beg from us to help them get their kids off the hook... so that is the term, helicopter parents... heck I still remember calling the Dean of a department at oh dark hundred because one of his students was critical in the Trauma Room, and the first words were, if you are a parent I don't want to hear it... no I am just the paramedic who just took your student to the trauma unit, and I'd think you'd want to call parents...

Rolls eyes.

So it has a name... cute
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
22. .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
23. They're also working harder too, aren't they?...
It seems I read something recently about more college kids were going with double or triple or more majors? Many are working at jobs more hours to help pay for college, and they're not allowed to drink and party like they used to in the late 60's. A much more conservative view of what college age people can and cannot do is prevalent now. And say what you will about partying, some of the best conversations about life, the universe, and everything happen when you're imbibing something! All the other answers though have just as much validity. Is the atmosphere and the freedom of the faculty to speak truth being suppressed or inhibited? If they aren't hearing these views in college, there's no way they would ever wake up - how many people ever leave their comfort zone without a shake-up in their world view?
I think it may be a combination of a lot of those factors, and the other thoughts mentioned be earlier posts.

It's a good question, but it leads to another question: How do we shake them out of their complacency?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Actually...
Instead of graduating in four years, more and more are taking five or six years. It is because many are taking fewer hours because they have to work more to pay for school. Financial aid is in the crapper now and it is getting harder and harder for students to go to or stay in college.

They still party as much as they ever did. Trust me, alcohol is still the number one problem for us who work in the field. Also, the rise of those with disabilities, such as ADD, has also increased our drug problems on campus. Drug of choice...Ritalin!

Many of the students are also very spoiled. They grew up not having to ever share a room, toys, etc. This creates conflicts as well. They are also "coddled" by their parents. Many have very limited social skills, as most of their time, they are on the computer. When not in the cyber-world, they have very small, tight-knit groups of friends and are not willing to meet others.

Many are also still tied VERY tightly to their parents and their way of thinking. Any problem, no matter how slight, parents get overly involved.

The only way to shake them from their complacency is to help them draw on their own experiences and explain how it is tied to the world around them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
43. The wingers have a looot of chutzpah compaining about leftist influence
and affirimative action for conservative profs at American Universities. They've already rendered college students as docile as they want them to be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #43
68. i was thinking the exact same thing.
but then again, the wingers do have that tendency of turning satire into reality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #43
79. So true...
But you have to remember, to them, "leftist influence" is really any thing that doesn't jive with their parent's ideology. The Young Rethugs on campus have a lot of control...many will take over the student government, which makes getting "liberal" speakers to campus a chore!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #26
50. 'spoiled students'..I'll never forget a black woman's comment during
a class discussion about getting along with others, getting along with roommates

she said she finally told her roommate (apparently super messy, never picked anything up, complained that my student didn't help her wake up in the morning to get to class, etc) 'I didn't come to college to be your mother'

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
67. i agree with pretty much everything you said
but i still think that most students suck at computers and the internet. as sad as that is.

the rest of what you said, though, bravo. especially about the "coddled" thing. absolutely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #67
73. Perhaps...
They may not be computer whizzes, but that is how they communicate. I actually had a student say "LOL" when I told a joke! He didn't even laugh out loud, he just said "LOL!" Now, that is an extreme, but it does show a serious problem with human interaction is afoot. The biggest rally I saw when at OSU, was a "protest" to get computer access in the rooms! My staff communicated with students via email all the time, instead of walking down the hall. We also had a fair amount of cyber-stalking. We actually computerized housing sign-up because students didn't want to have to go to the central office.

We had several brownouts because of all the electronics in the rooms and raised housing costs because of the electricity output!

Thanks for the "bravo," but after 10 years in the field, it is only a little of what I have seen! :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #26
91. ...and classes overcrowded and or canceled or offered once a year
hell, i can't tell you how many people are double majoring around me. i feel like a tool for not doubling or triple majoring.

and then there's all the bottleneck points where a required class for a major is offered only in 1 or 2 sections and once a year if that. hell, i have a friend who was 2 classes shy of a degree but had no way of getting back into those classes without taking a full course load (paying outrageous prices) and waiting a year. and even then, there was no guarantee to get the class because it was constantly overbooked. 25 seats, 75 students, each and every time. he just gave up after being so close -- too much time and money. besides, if he picked up fluff units he'd oust himself from school from being over on allowed college credits, and still get no degree.

so please people. all this talk about easy college? nonsense. daddy's princess and "champ" ain't the end-all, be-all of college. they are just the most glaring irritants, and just another reason why college should be cheaper, more loans, and more affirmative action, compared to endless freaking legacies.

i expect 18 yr olds fresh out of high school to be stupid, so i don't care about their apathetic, self-absorbed ways. for a good percentage all that nonsense is beaten out of them soon. six months in i hardly ever found the freshmen women spending the 2-4 hours to doll themselves up for class everyday. you'd be lucky if they came in their pjs with birkenstocks. so the ones that stick around for a real degree they wise up soon after.

and then there's so many more older people in college now. people are leaving their first careers because the job market evaporated. people are struggling hand to mouth, and we are supposed to ask them to solve the nation?

could things be better? shit, yeah. but sitting on our asses in the dean's office singing kumbaya is gonna change that how? in this day and age? please. it ain't the 1960's anymore. deal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. Not sure how deep that trend is.
What we see at our state university is the opposite: Diminishing course load, now down to 14 hours/semester average (9 semesters to graduate), and big increase in number working. focus groups tell us the increase in working is to support their lifestyle, not due to costs of college directly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. My list
"It doesn't affect me"

"I want/need money now"

"They attacked us on 9/11"

"I'm not really into politics"

"They hate us for our freedom"

"I can make it on my own"

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
25. Everyone's too friggin' drunk or stoned.
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3067828

Sotted students hospitalized

Nine underage women who attended CU frat parties over the weekend are treated for overimbibing, one week after the campus marked a student's 2004 drinking death.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. and no one was drunk or stoned in the 60s?
:crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #31
51. I can't remember.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
54. Anastasia? Is that you?
Love your screen name!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. SHHHHH! Don't tell anyone
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LizMoonstar Donating Member (392 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
28. we have some local activism at my small college, but
i know a lot of people who have given up on anything larger-scale because they think that with reds in charge, it won't make any difference and may get them locked up.

then again, there's my Darwin Club buddies, and my friend working in Obama's office who is the most hard-core Deaniac I know. (we like to joke that the reason she doesn't have nor seem to want gentleman callers, despite preferring men, is because she's 'saving herself for Howard'.)

i think that in the modern era, things are structured in such a way that college students just can't pull off the protests of the '60s. and not just because we're all spoiledly apathetic and immature.

so there, neener neener neener :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RethugAssKicker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
29. They're all Alex Keatons
Only care about money and themselves! What a shame. IMO, to see a 19 year old call himself conservative is simply disastrous. 19 year olds should be idealistic and altruistic. What a shame for our country!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Thats Alex B. Keaton to you buddy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. It was actually Alex P. Keaton, wasn't it? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
30. too many children of the privileged.
1) The campus I'm at didn't even protest the war in Viet Nam. Why should the children of those republicans, (Nixon spoke at the 74 Commencement here), be any different. The (horse) apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

2) Those who are dying are not the peers of the kids here in school. So many in the guard joined to get school loans. SURPRISE!!! The kids who are here didn't have to do that to come to school.

3) No effective body count/no images/not enough dead. During 'Nam, every tuesday at 5:40 CST, Walter Cronkite would read the previous week's body count, # US dead, wounded, # NVA dead, wounded. It was a chilling scorecard. But very real.

4) Its not as meaningful to the students as cheap gas, cheap beer. If beer prices were to increase as a result of the war, it would be different. Do not forget the Michigan "right to party" protests of a couple years ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
distantearlywarning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
34. At my school, the undergraduates have two primary concerns:
1. Getting laid
2. Getting drunk

And perhaps if they have any energy left over, they consider watching some reality television and maybe studying a little bit. Politics isn't even on the list for many of these kids (too much work and all that thinking makes their poor brains hurt).

Most of them are children of privilege who's mommies and daddies pay for everything so they don't have to work, and also they have never had to critically analyze anything because of their crappy public school educations, so they probably don't even realize that there is a problem in the first place (much less know or care enough about it to protest).

This is not true of all of them, of course. But the ones who actually do know and care are too small a minority to really get any movements started.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Which school? No user profile for you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #34
62. I couldn't have put it more eloquently...
"Most of them are children of privilege who's mommies and daddies pay for everything so they don't have to work, and also they have never had to critically analyze anything because of their crappy public school educations, so they probably don't even realize that there is a problem in the first place (much less know or care enough about it to protest)."

Spot-fucking-on, mate.

MojoXN
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #34
92. getting high, getting laid. 18 yr olds world over from the start of time
like i've said before, i expect nothing from 18 yr olds. they're straight out of high school. runnin' on drugs and hormones.

and the youth had an outrageous increase in voter turn out rate for the 2004 election, so the idle, apathetic label is an incorrect generality.

i think we have some boomers getting cramps from patting themselves on the back. if all of us had all our $ needs covered by 1 breadwinner maybe we could care.

i'm getting tired of the comparison to a group of spoiled kids -- who are baby boomer children, by the way -- and the expectation that the rest of us who aren't having everything handed on a silver platter should do something about it. let's play a game! perhaps it's just bad parenting and poor parental role-modeling biting society back in the ass. hmm?

how about it's all the people from the 1960's fault, they've made this new problem by their self-centered lifestyle and passed it on to a new generation. and now we're doomed by their bad parenting, because without the powerless college kids to sit in college administration offices and make crappy folk music we'll all be doomed by a great corporate gov't machine that all the baby boomers now work for or directly control... for only college kids scrawling colorful posters to be ignored by the media (ran by their parents generation) can save this nation from the fascist state it is turning. hey, isn't this fun? it's all the boomers fault? why aren't they solving it?

:eyes:

please. yeah, it's all our responsibility. we haven't been marching with you. there's not one twenty-something in all the protests past weekend. yeah, uh-huh, thanks. hey, let's slap on another paul simon LP to save the world!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
distantearlywarning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #92
97. For your info...
I'm not a baby boomer. I'm a young Gen-X grad student just a few years older than the oldest undergraduates in my labs.

And I don't think my generation was perfect either. We were/are pretty self-centered and apathetic and interested in getting drunk and laid too. We could have been much better progressives ourselves. But the failures of my my generation in no way negate anything I said about the college students I interact with on a daily basis.

And yes, I do think they are less progressive in some respects than college kids of the early-mid '90s - we at least had alternative music and 'zines and rallies when Jerry Garcia died and stuff, which implies that we cared about something other than fashion and Temptation Island 14. For instance, I remember noticing a distinct cultural shift around 1998-1999 in which stations like MTV, which used to cater to "rebellious youth" (sort of - think about MTV in the early days and the 80's and how hip and alternative it was) started showing endless streams of mass-produced plastic pop videos and shows filled to the brim with tanned blond sorority girls (as opposed to tatooed rocker guys). Even rap and hip hop became plastic around that time - booty videos filled with bling and cars and hot chicks. It was like the message went from "Fuck the man" to "Be the man". This is a meaningful shift, I think, and says something about the culture of the young today. We are obsessed with status, and money, and escapism, and celebrity worship. I don't think that was _as_ true of my generation or previous generations (although its always been present in America).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #97
102. my rant generated from one too much similar boomer posts.
not directed at you, per se, but the topic's direction as a whole.

i, too, am a young gen-x student. near the cusp.

of course our generation isn't perfect. that's the point. no generation is. not the baby boomers, nor the "greatest generation," the silents, or the gen-xers.

we, as gen-xers, are incredibly cynical. but that doesn't mean this current generation isn't. remember this, you're older. you're not gonna get to see this generation's underground culture without serious effort. all your gonna see is the most superficial layer of their self-expression. your conclusion seems to come from just being older. hell, i'm older and i have to struggle like hell to not immediately peg these "whippersnappers." i, too, easily labeled them as vapid, distracted, plastik, and vain. but, you know what? i was wrong. it's my generational blindness.

just 'cause you can't find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. tell me all the emo kids, goth resurgence, punk resurgence, explosion in veganism, schizophrenic sense of fashion exploration, and huge swath of wholly unknown music to us is all plastic selfishness.

"For instance, I remember noticing a distinct cultural shift around 1998-1999 in which stations like MTV, which used to cater to "rebellious youth" (sort of - think about MTV in the early days and the 80's and how hip and alternative it was) started showing endless streams of mass-produced plastic pop videos and shows filled to the brim with tanned blond sorority girls (as opposed to tatooed rocker guys). Even rap and hip hop became plastic around that time - booty videos filled with bling and cars and hot chicks. It was like the message went from "Fuck the man" to "Be the man". This is a meaningful shift, I think, and says something about the culture of the young today. We are obsessed with status, and money, and escapism, and celebrity worship. I don't think that was _as_ true of my generation or previous generations (although its always been present in America)."

and the almighty new youth were responsible for this? you know as well as i that MTV, chain record stores, and radio are wholly co-opted and zero indicators of what's going on in youth culture. hell, limp bizkit, for example, was foisted upon us in the late 90s as co-opted corporate bullshit and do you mean to tell me that us gen-xers were monolithically supportive of that? that they were our fault? only the most vapid and out of touch among us bought into the limp bizkit-as-rebel swill, suburbanites forced to live lives in lands wholly divorced of meaning. but here's what it meant: 1. suburbanites are starved for anything with meaning, anything to speak their discontent 2. the corporate media already figured it out and now lock down most mass outlets for expression and whitewash or pre-mold any artist to co-op any rebellious dissent and neuter it or render it soulless.

so why are you blaming the kids for having next to nothing outside of the 'net and their cell phones? ever notice that that's literally their lifeline to the universe? it's how they define themselves now, because there's no other choice. otherwise their every move is being watched and co-opted.

if you sit and talk with them more you'll find that a surprising amount is just as jaded, if not moreso, than us about the survival of this system. the thing is is they don't see how brandishing all the accoutrements makes a difference. and they're right. it doesn't. so until then, they play and wait for the adults in charge to do something better. if the older adults, who have more power, don't wanna change it, why fight it, wait until they die.

what i have noticed is more fear in publicly criticizing everything and not having a solution to back it up. our generation was ready to kvetch at the drop of a hat, them you have to coax it out of.

though, the young republican trust fund babies have gotten more annoying this time around, if that was humanly possible. i think that's what most people fixate on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
37. For one thing, most Profs are NOT as liberal as they are made out to be
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 03:57 PM by ccbombs
Most of mine, particularly the Econ ones, were conservative if not full-blown neo-con. The liberals usually taught English or History. But the kids I meet today are mostly majoring in business and technology and are being inculcated with Supply Side Koolaid. They think they're going to be partying on the yacht with P.Diddy and the Donald. You wouldn't believe how many of them buy into tax cuts and privatized SS. There are, of course, numerous exceptions (thank god).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
38. With so few colleges identified by name, it's hard to follow this thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kcwayne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
39. When I was in college, I could be conscripted to kill and die, but
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 04:11 PM by kcwayne
I could not vote or buy a beer.

I could watch police in Alabama hosing down peaceful Civil Rights activists and attacking them with dogs, in a land where those same activists would be conscripted to go to Viet Nam and fight for "freedom".

I could watch the National Guard shoot and kill students at Kent State in response to civil disobedience, enforcing the point the "freedom" did not include the right to protest.

I could watch people of color being denied the right to ride in a bus, eat in a restaurant, sleep at a hotel, marry or associate with someone of a different race, get a car loan, rent an apartment, or buy a house in a white neighborhood. And at the same time the government could forcibly demand that I go to some hell hole and die to preserve "freedom".

The rank hypocrisy of society and government, coupled with the threat of conscription was a dominant factor in my life, my awareness, and my world view. And I shared this experience with most of my peers.

A student today's biggest worries are being inconvenienced. It is a far cry from being forced to lay your life down for something you do not believe in.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
40. Beer, pot, sex, exams, in that order. n/t
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 04:10 PM by tasteblind
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
46. Busy with moneygrubbing. eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
47. When I was in college (80-84) ...

... the vast majority of the student body considered themselves conservative Republicans. 90% of the people in college are there to get a degree that will enable them to get a job. They aren't there to expand their minds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
48. Too many pampered and spoiled kids
who have cars, cell phones, the latest fashions and want to do nothing but party, party, party. If there is no draft then they aren't in peril, and that is all that counts. But there are still many good, caring student activists--I've seen them at protest rallies in Madison, but there numbers are not what they once were. If the draft ever did come back you would see alot of those kids and their parents finally wake up and start caring.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. I was in a Madison antiwar rally in 2003
as an overage campus visitor and noted that almost half of the protestors were high school and middle school kids who cut class to turn out!! There is some hope there but I wandered why there weren't more college age people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
53. Generation Y
They call them Gen Y or Echo Boomers - and they are an interesting group. They have grown up as very pampered and catered to and we are starting to see the results of that now. 60 Minutes did a very interesting piece on them which included the following info:

"This is a generation that has long aimed to please. They've wanted to please their parents, their friends, their teachers, their college admissions officers."

It's a generation in which rules seem to have replaced rebellion, convention is winning out over individualism, and values are very traditional.


More info: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/01/60minutes/mai...


Not only do they automatically expect the best to come to them, because that's what they've always been given, but they also feel the need to conform and obey. Not exactly a hotbed of dissent.

But all may not be lost - I think the real world will be a hard adjustment for them, but it may be so different and so much harder than what they expected, that they turn into a very vocal group. Only time will tell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #53
80. Another name...
The are also called "Millenials." I have done presentations on this topic. It is interesting to see the "make-up" of this current crop of students.

This is a powerpoint presentation...but it has loads of info, if interested.

http://www.gc.peachnet.edu/studev/main/Millenials%20Sta...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
57. Give em time, it didn't just take off in the 60's.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
61. Because most American college students are fucking idiots...
Who couldn't care less about anything political. The few who ARE political are usually rabid pro-Bushites, at least here in the flyover states. Progressive college students are usually too stoned to do anything useful, including yours truly! :)

MojoXN
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
65. I'm a college student right now
Apathy, sheer apathy, is the problem. People are disconnected from one another. Society has become so atomized, and because it's harder now to pay for school than it was in decades past, people are more interested in money issues than anything else. There might be a corellation between the decreasing buying power of the average Pell Grant to the amount of free time students have when they are not working a job or two to pay the damn bills, but this is speculative.

I'm not sure students nowadays are any greedier than those back in the 1960s, but I'm young. I wasn't around back in '69 to see. I think they're simply less optimistic than they were, and I believe the CORPORATE NEWS MEDIA has done its part to shape mine and everybody's mind. This is not the 1960s. There is no real optimism anymore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
66. Dude, you're talking to someone whose college
ranked #2 in net beer consumption in the Princeton Review. Run by one of the most conservative Catholic sects (the Dominicans) in the world, yet we are a school of lushes. There are very few people who care about politics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
69. I would describe the atmosphere on my campus as benign opposition
Most students oppose the war, but they have other things to do besides march in protest. The absence of a draft eliminates a lot of the urgency of the issue for them.

The only students who still seem to support the war are the rich fraternity assholes (and not even all of them).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. Hey, I'm an asshole in a Fraternity!
But my brothers are cool. I guess that you could call us the anti-fraternity fraternity. No jock douche types, all well educated and/or intelligent. None of my frat borthers support the war. In fact, ALL of them are vehemently anti-Bushling. The ONE who thought that Dubyism was a good idea has changed his tune, and drastically, since the Katrina debacle. Just my $.03 (inflation, right?)

MojoXN

The XN is for Chi Nu!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #70
106. Bless you...I'm too old for the frat-stuff, but I appreciate your frats
attitude. I saw one frat house at UCLA where it was a bunch of artists & liberal poli-sci students were hanging out in front playing guitar & bongos...how cool was that in 1987?!? I kicked it with them for a few hours & bitched about Reagan...it was a blast. That made me want to go to UCLA. Unfortunately, I didn't get back into school until 13 years later...but that's another LONG story. Good ending though!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
71. The 25 year campaign to disassemble American Youth Culture
worked
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
78. Because students once congregated on campus, now they have the net
That and all the other forms of communication.

The dissent is real and there - it's just not campus-centric. A look through the faces of the anti-war marchers will see MANY of them were 17 - 24 years of age.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #78
88. Very interesting perspective..
My eldest just went off to school, and I (thinking like the boomer I am) thought that his new "campus life" would engulf him the same way it had me (back in the day).. But He brought all his HS pals with him via IM and email and he's been incorporating them into his new life.

He's enjoying himself on campus, but he hasn't had to make the radical break from his hometown that we used to have to make.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
artemisia1 Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
81. I think also, that a large number, due to cuts in funding for classes,
have had to migrate to schools such as "The University of Phoenix", which are factories - but guarantee that you will get the classes you need for your degree AND allow you to work full-time. I've known several Progressives who've had to go to Phoenix for these very same reasons. It hasn't blunted their activism in the slightest - they just confine it to non-school hours and locations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
83. uh, they are. but who's gonna tell you? the media? or you expecting riots?
Edited on Thu Sep-29-05 04:17 AM by NuttyFluffers
what exactly are you expecting from us youth? a gigantic crusade to burn down the richy-poo suburbs and raze town hall?

there's plenty of protests where i've been. but then, you can't tell with berkeley, stanford, and sfsu, etc. but i'm hearing the same from friends at other colleges. it's active, but it isn't all "be ins" if that's what you were expecting. we have, like, things to do, like pay rent and afford food to escape this Fortress America. college is far more expensive and difficult to juggle with real life now than 40 years ago.

besides, even if we were tapdancing in tutus who's gonna broadcast it to people's cushy sofas? the free press? what free press? please... we're already a fascist state and we know it. we're just trying to get an education and escape while the getting is good.

hey, where's the middle age adults who actually have something more to lose? y'know, like house and home, child to war or poverty, job to india or china, family health care, elderly parents health, complete liquidation of assets. rioting in the streets and burning down town hall? hmmm? and even if you did, do you think we're gonna see it on the TEEVEE?

:smoke: :donut: mmm, caffeine n' nicotine, breakfast of champions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Locrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #83
96. spot on
NuttyFluffers - as a 40 yo beat down activist you are spot on.
Keep up the 'tude and tell it like it is - it's what we need more of.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #83
100. Excuses excuses.
;)

(Serious question: How do you know it's harder for students now than then? Do you think getting a college education was a leisure activity 40 years ago?)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #100
107. simple. ask them. then ask their kids. then cross reference their costs.
sure the first part is going to be anecdotal evidence, but it's going to flesh out the statistical data and give direction on where to explore more.

then you take the statistical data of costs, be they time, social pressures (which as some have alleviated due to cultural movements, thank god and a huge thanks to the sacrifices of our 60s generation; but a whole new slew of pressures took their place -- std risks, divorce, and drug wars alone huge starting points), monetary purchase power, adjusted wages, social net, living expenses, etc.

so with statistical data and anecdotal reference we can flesh out how things have changed.

and even for a quick example: 2 jobs, part or full, and full time school is pretty much the norm, almost prerequisite. only a decade or so ago full time job and full time school was the norm, almost prerequisite. 40 years ago was definitely not the case of today. a part time or summer job perhaps, but full time job wasn't the norm by a long shot. 40 years ago public college was dirt cheap, and in some cases free (cal state system was literally peanuts to free around the 60s, i know that). these costs, and the jobs required to pay them, take a huge toll. trust fund brats may throw off the curve a bit, but we are absolutely struggling nowadays to make it through.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #107
108. I have no doubt you're struggling (as a class, I mean)
but then so is every American but the Republicanly favored.

I hadn't heard that 2 full-time jobs was the norm nowadays for college students. Working one's way through school is a time-honored tradition for people from the lower and middle classes. I don't think it has ever been easy to strive upward in the US. Granted it's getting harder because of Republican policies--much, much harder. But not having some education after high school is getting rarer as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smallprint Donating Member (778 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #83
103. Well said
Yes, good assessment... i'm a generation Xer, cynical beyond cynical, and I couldn't imagine college students today protesting in a stereotypical 60s way. Even by the time I was in college, public protest was seen as less important as your private choices--- i.e. who you had sex with, what you ate, what drugs you did and how you related to people. I'm sure this has only accelerated. Students today are dealing with such unreal pressures developed over generations of media bombardment, it's amazing they make it through at all. They have to be hypersexual, athletic, smart, culturally aware and superficially successful at every level, while at the same time knowing that all their efforts may be in vain due to the exporting of jobs and development of a fascist state. Due to this stress, eating disorders and massive substance abuse are the daily rituals of survival for so many ... on top of that add the cuts in scholarships and funding for working class kids... and you end up with some seriously screwed up, yet driven youth. Some of them go to protests, some don't, but the fact that they are still kicking gives me hope for the future. Give them a break, they are surviving and thriving in one of the most insane societies in human history.

/Rant over
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
84. the populace has been depoliticized, students are part of the populace
i think that's the essence of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pstokely Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
85. Only rich can afford higher education nowadays
one reason
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
105. College costs too much these days.
Students are too busy juggling two or three jobs, trying to pay rent, buy food and make good enough grades to justify the expense..

Kids of MY era, partied when they were not in class.. Things were laid back. I only knew ONE kid who had a job while in college..

Kids today (LOTS of them) still live at home and commute to school to save money.. They do not have the luxury of "breaking away".. They are 20-somethings who are still "bound" to their parents through debt..

Those scenarios do not lend themselves to much soulsearching and activism..

In the late 60's we spent MANY hours hanging out in large groups.."solving the problems of the world".. Todays kids watch it on CNN and accept what they say as truth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Aug 01st 2014, 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC