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My 18 yr old friend Sam wants to ask you all a question re Patrioit Act

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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:13 PM
Original message
My 18 yr old friend Sam wants to ask you all a question re Patrioit Act
Hi all- Sam here.

Does the Patriot Act treat all Protesters and
Demonstrator as Traitors?

What would you do if someone arrested you
for protesting, using the Patriot Act to
charge you as a traitor?
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. What you would do is disappear.
We will find out shortly if real traitors can still be prosecuted. Watch for the Patrick Fitzgerald indictments.
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. don't tell the poor kid that! he'll never show up at the protest! eom
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Well, snarkiness aside, they haven't yet
arrested people for showing up at most rallies. Those (such as Cindy) who have gotten arrested, it has mainly been on purpose. As far as we know (even those rounded up in NYC and DC last year by rogue police departments) have been released within hours or days. The charges have never been anything like treason, more like trespassing, gum chewing, etc.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Patriot Act lets the gov. do as it pleases.....
http://www.eff.org/patriot /

If it pleases them to use it because you protest, they'll do it.

Hell, the only conviction Ashcroft got under the Patriot Act was on a titty bar in Vegas.

If I were arrested for protesting and charged under the Patriot Act I don't suppose there is much I could do, except wait for the next DEM Pres. to give me a pardon.
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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. More Questions from Sam
Does the Patriot Act make you feel safer knowing that the government can now monitor your life and accuse you of being a terrorist?
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Sam.. You sound like a bright kid..
What do you think?
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ellie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. No, the Patriot Act
doesn't make me feel safer one bit.
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. The patriot act makes me feel more afraid, but not...
of terrorists, but of my own government.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. NO. But it has a very broad definition of what constitutes a terrorist
in that it defines anyone who threatens or endangers life or property while attempting to bring about political change as a terrorist. So, theoretically, if you you jay-walked (which could possibly cause damage to life or property) while engaged in a protest, in the broadest usage of the definitions contained in the act, you could be designated as a terrorist.

A traitor or one who commits treason is very narrowly defined in the Constitution, as:

" Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted. "

So dissent is NOT treason, contrary to what some right-wing hacks might have you believe.

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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. It gives the government carte blanch authority to treat protesters as
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 12:26 PM by dogday
terrorist if they so wish to put that label upon us. Under the patriot act one could conceivably be thrown into a cell if proved to be a terrorist. That is the rub, they do have to prove that there is a conspiracy to commit terror. Could be thrown in jail with no due process of law. This act has been extended I believe another 10 years unless it is revisited and changed...
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SlipperySlope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. Someone is misquoting the Patriot Act to you...
The Patriot Act has all sorts of nasty new ways the government can spy on you, monitor you, and track you.

However, I'm pretty certain it doesn't have any new ways to arrest you. If some is threatening to arrest you under the Patriot Act, they are bullshitting, or have been bullshitted.

Also, a "traitor" is one who commits "treason". Treason is the only crime defined by the Constitution, and the definition can't be changed by mere law:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two witnesses to the same overt Act, or on confession in open Court.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
11. The traitor charge is hard to prosecute , enemy combatant is the label
I fear . the bfee has been very careful in the wording
of labels as to confuse the constitutional issues raised.

The Constitution is very clear as to the rules for
charging one with Treason .

Enemy Combatant is so broadly defined that it would
have arrested the civil rights food counter protests .
MLK would have been labeled "Enemy Combatant"

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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thanks friends, Sam wanted to get a flavoring and
he'll be back checking this site, (with his own name)

He's doing a documentary for school this weekend,
and is a very bright kid. I'm popping off to work
now- Take Care All!

Again Thanks.
deb
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. They don't need a reason to arrest you anymore. All they need
is a HUNCH that you are a terrorist. Then, they can toss you in jail, you have no right to an attorney and your family may not see you for years, if ever. Nice, eh? Welcome to the neo-con's America. If you're a protester and they wish to call you a traitor, you are a traitor. Period. They can sweep you away with no one knowing about it.

They can also go into your home, search your belongings, bug your house, look at your computer hard drive, take your computer hard drive and NOT TELL you about it. It's called "Delayed Notification" and they can enter your home at any time WITHOUT you knowing it.. :(
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