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Who is profiteering from natural gas? @#$%#!@!

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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:09 AM
Original message
Who is profiteering from natural gas? @#$%#!@!
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 11:10 AM by Armstead
(Yes this is a rant.But if anyone has a legitimate reason that could explain what is happening, I would like to know the answer.)

Over the past two years the cost of natural gas has risen by an exhorbitant rate.

I won't give personal information, but our household budget plan for gas heat has more than doubled over the pasy two years, for the same amount of heat.

Okay the apologists for oil prices give excuses like changes inthe international markets and otehr bullshit.

But who the fuck is gouging the public on natural gas? Thereh as not been any apparent change in the situation with natural gas that would justify what has been happening to those prices.

Does anyone know -- honestly -- what the hell is going on here? Are there legitimate reasons that I'm not aware of. Or is this just another example of Busines Gone Wild, and screwing the public just because they can get away with it.

Goddam Republicans. And goddamn those Democrats who have been sitting by ldly by while the people get screwed by the inflating cost of necessities.



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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. Basically it's supply/demand
Demand is going way, way up...yes, over the past 2 years. At the same time, production is going up as well, I've sunk 13 production wells so far this year, and the Rockies are being drilled like a cheerleader on prom night. Equilibrium will eventually be reestablished, but at a higher cost.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why is demand going up?
Despite increasing population, I find it hard to see any reason for a sharp enough increase to justify the proportion of increases to consumers.

I'm not being ornery, but I really cannot see any reason that would justify the extent of these price increases.

And if it is supply and demand, then we need government intervention or some kind of public not-for-profit alternative. I fear for how many people are going to freeze this winter because of the skyrocketing cost, after last year's skyrocketing. .
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. a lot of the east coast is changing from fuel oil to gas
check this page
http://www.eere.energy.gov/femp/technologies/eep_gas_fu...
FEMP Energy-Efficient Products: How to Buy an Energy-Efficient Gas Furnace

yes gas is going up--- if the government would give home owners a tax break to buy new furnaces the gas supply would stablize..but the bush whitehouse and the congress has other tax breaks to give out...
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. That's so ironic
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 12:24 PM by Armstead
Instead of being rewarded for switching to a fuel that is supposedly cleaner and more efficient, the thanks the public gets is "Now that you've done what you thought was the right thing, we're gonna stick it to you."

I know many people who made that switch in the past and are regretting it.

They've got us coming and going.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. I have read that many electricity producing facilities can operate on...
...either fuel oil or natural gas. As the cost of oil rises they are switching to natural gas which increases the demand. Don't know if it is true or not but it makes sense.

Don
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. Natural gas is produced with liquid petroleum
They're almost always found together, and are generally extracted concurrently. When oil becomes expensive/rare etc, so does natural gas.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Thanks. I didn't know that
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Sometimes true
but a huge overgeneralization. Just sunk a 15000 footer in thi Pinedale Anticline, with simply enormous amounts of gas and condensate, but not one whit of oil.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. I didn't say it was *always* true
Just generally true... The geological conditions that create petroleum traps are the same for liquid petroleum and natural gas, and are often found together.

All I was saying is that the similar geological environment and often times identical location for natural gas and oil is a major player in rising natural gas prices (in addition to limited refining, reduced production, increased demand, and greed).
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. I seem to remember a few years ago...
...there was a weird situation where the price was too low for producers to bother bringing much out of the ground, which tightened supply, which raised prices, which increased production, but prices stayed high to keep the cycle from continuing.

Privatized utilities is just a huge, huge scam...
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. We need a counterbalance to privatization
Too many people aregoing to FUCKING DIE if we remain slaves to Free Market Totalitarianism
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CabalPowered Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
9. The fed's natgas supply numbers are due tommorow
This will be the first report since Rita and I suspect the numbers will be ugly. Some analysts are saying $20 a decatherm is not out of the question.

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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yep.
And my conscience will still struggle with what I do for a living...guess I'll just have to remind myself even more that I am not the problem...it's the fact that the consumers won't change their demand or patterns of consumption, coupled with a simply insane energy policy which rewards ever higher levels of hydrocarbon comsumption. **sigh** What's a geologist to do?
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CabalPowered Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. What are your thoughts on shale in Utah..
It's the last thing I want us to pursue but given Hatch's plan..
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. At the point where it is
profitable to extract, it will come out of the ground. I really don't foresee our economy/consumption patterns changing until joe sixpack is willing to give up driving to Safeway for a loaf of bread.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Consumers can only do so much to change.
If you are not personally profiteering, then your conscience should be clear. Sounds like you perform a needed function.

But somewhere, the public is being taken advantage of, even if it by the cold forces of the unregulated free market that throws people to the wolves.

Heat, like healthcare, is something that can only be controlled to a limited extent. If I could dial up the outside natural temperature in New England to about 70 degrees in January and February, I would, and then use less heat.

And many consumers switched from oil to natural gas back when it weas being sold as a less expensive, more efficient and environmentally friendly form of fuel.



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tex-wyo-dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
12. If there is any profiteering going on...
you can bet our good friends at Halliburton are in the thick of it all. Halliburton is, I believe, one of the biggest producers of natural gas in my home state of Wyoming. As my fellow Wyomingite (TransitJohn) so aptly put it, the Rockies are now being drilled like "a cheerleader on prom night."

Back in the first * term, the BLM was tasked to process thousands of drilling lease applications that had been held up for years for various reasons including environmental concerns. These leases were subsequently doled out like candy to the big energy producers and land that was only a few years ago basically untouched wilderness is now well heads as far as the eye can see.

National Geographic had an article regarding this in July:

http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0507/feature5/in...
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Holly_Hobby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'm not sure why, but
our natural gas budget went down 10% from last year.

However, they just did a sweep of our neighborhood, found many service line leaks including ours, which cost $757 to repair, not including $65 for a hotel room to take showers due to lack of hot water.

That $757 also includes a $75 charge to move the meter - the crybaby meter readers complained that a shrub was too close and they might get scratched. :eyes: They could have asked us to trim it!
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