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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 10:00 AM
Original message
Howard Dean on meeting with Cindy Sheehan
http://democrats.org/a/2005/09/meeting_with_ci.php#trac...

I met with Cindy Sheehan and three activist supporters here in my office at the DNC (two of whom were involved in the Presidential race) on Saturday after the rally. Some of you have met her, but for those who have not, I thought I would share my impressions.

She is a delightful person. She had not a drop of holier than thou zealotry. She is unpretentious and very clear. All this I expected, given the terrible sacrifice she has made, and her willingness to speak out.

What I was surprised at was her ability to be so comfortable in her own skin. After she became a phenomenon in Crawford, the Republican spin team realized she was a real threat. Cindy Sheehan, made a tremendous personal sacrifice. A sacrifice being made by too many American families who have had loved ones killed or maimed in this war.

Cindy has credibility the Administration does not have. Even the President tried to diminish her by saying that she did not believe in fighting terrorism. His minions, of course, did much worse, trying to make out that she was a media savvy manipulator -- and even spreading false rumors that she was anti-Semitic.

No one is untouched in the face of personal attack, but Cindy exudes an inner calm and a self-confidence which made it clear to me that she will not back down. I respect and support what she is doing in standing up and speaking out.

Whether you think the Iraq war is a good idea or not, all of us should support Cindy Sheehan. Perhaps the grossest disservice the Republican leadership has inflicted on our country is not the war, the huge deficits, or even the divisive appeals to the worst fears of voters. Rather it is the notion that it is unpatriotic to disagree with the most partisan President in our life time, and that dissent harms our country. Nothing could be farther from the truth -- we are a strong country because we have the right to dissent.

In fact it is the attempts of the Administration to fight dissent with personal attacks as they did during the Nixon era are that diminish our country in the long term.

Cindy Sheehan is honest in the face of a dishonest and corrupt Washington culture. She is plain spoken in an era of cynicism and propaganda, she in committed and idealistic in a time where our government has abandoned what is right for America in favor of what is right for the Republican party. We need more Cindy Sheehans.

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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yay Howard! Glad to hear he met with her this weekend.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. Dang. That was very eloquent, a very good read.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. Kick for GD.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you Dr. Dean.
:)
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dooner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
5. Right On Howard! n/t
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. Howard Dean and Cindy Sheehan must be the two people
With most credibility around these days.

It was one big relief when Dean became chair (he would have been a real asset in any position) and Cindy is just a delightful person, and sooo American, lol!

Of course I like Kerry and a lot of other senators too, but Dean was a governor, and a little more outspoken and direct. A much appreciated quality ;-)

I hope Dean can work with her and build on her credibility to buffer against the rw smear machine. And if possible, make her an asset for the Democrat and liberal movement.

Even more than she is, that is! :D
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. I hope so too!
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 12:33 PM by FreedomAngel82
They're doing to Cindy like Nixon did to Kerry for speaking out with Vietnam. I'm glad Dean is telling this because it shows we're all with her. Nothing the GOP will do can stop the anti-war movement and/or her.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. Dean lost his credibility when he became a supporter of the war
I would like to hear Cindy's view of this meeting.

Give him hell, Cindy!
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Wow. Seven whole posts before the slamming started. nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. You sound like Joshua Frank....
Josh says Dean is pro-occupation and pro-war, which is a bunch of BS. He says equally bad things about all our Democrats. Except Nader or Kucinich.

Cindy apparently said some things about the meeting with Dean that were not very nice.

She is not helping us acting like this. There are ways to do things and ways not to do them. This is a good example of the latter.

I say Kudos to Howard Dean for writing about the meeting so graciously.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Correction about something
Nader isn't a democrat.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. He most definitely is not. True.
I don't know what he is now.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. She is working to stop this insane war, not...
out to help the Democratic Party. In my view, the party, at best, can be a tool to help bring about a more just society. If it is not doing that, then it is not worth my support.

Others use the issue such as the war to help the party. The issue of the war will be dropped if it is not helping the Party.

So what comes first, working to ending the war, or loyalty to the Party?
Cindy, and many others like myself, have already made our choices, you have to make yours.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Here's exactly what Cindy said after meeting with Dean:
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 12:45 PM by Seabiscuit
Cindy Sheehan met with Howard Dean last Saturday.

Then she showed up at a Progressive Democrats of America conference on Sunday and recounted what had happened at the meeting. Dean, she said, had showed her his plan to build the Democratic Party, which included a long platform of issues. That list did not acknowledge the existence of the war.

Cindy said she asked Dean whether the war would be part of the agenda. He replied, she said, that hed like it to be but couldnt figure out how, because it was such a hard question. Hire me, Cindy said shed told him, because I dont think its hard!

See: http://spidel.net/blog /

I don't think that's saying anything that's "not very nice". She's simply being consistent with her position, which she should be.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. A good sound byte, but I would hope Ms. Sheehan understands how one
might have to represent a consensus, which is exactly what Howard Dean's job is.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Thanks for the sensible sane remark.
His job is to do just that.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. "hed like it to be but couldnt figure out how"
I am sorry but I think there was more to the conversation than that. I admire Cindy, but I am just realizing that perhaps some things are being twisted.

Perhaps we will hear from the others who were at the meeting. Maybe there is more to the story. Dean is pretty intelligent, you know, and for Cindy to try to make him sound the opposite is not going to help her cause.

The diarist at Kos who also wrote a diary at Democrats. com asking "Is Dean Drunk"....is likewise becoming suspect in my book.
http://www.democrats.com/node/6284

David's diary at Kos is very disturbing as well. He is a director of PDA and he not be asking if the party chair is drunk. Sorry, wrong. not good. Bad Idea.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. That was a great tribute by Dean to Cindy.
Good read, and a lot of class.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. "all of us should support Cindy Sheehan"--what does that mean?
Dr. Dean is obviously trying to deal with the dilemna that the US has no good options in Iraq. They are: (1) withdraw, (2) stay the course (ewww), or (3) increase forces and win the thing!

The Democrats have to craft a position where we don't seem weak on defense, a problem that has dogged the party since McGovern. (That is the perception, whether you agree or not). The whole world is waiting for the Dems to turn and demand a withdrawl from Iraq. The damned thing is that the party has no control over the situation in any respect and there are not many statements that the Democrats can make without the gops and the media twisting it to attack us.

So, here is Dr. Dean trying to mollify the situation and not take a stand. When he took the chairmanship, he said he was not going to address policy. What more could be expected?
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. excellent
recommend
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. Cindy spoke of this meeting at the PDA convention this past Sunday
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 12:28 PM by WilliamPitt
According to her, she told Dean we had to get out of Iraq. He replied, "We don't know how."

She was less than impressed.

I report, you decide.
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Kevin Spidel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. about her speech on Dean...
its updated on http://www.spidel.net/blog David Swanson summed her speech up right. We have video on this.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. Were you at the meeting?
Are you guys going to go with the Dean is drunk deal? Are you?
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
33. It sounds to me like Dean was saying...
That, while he wanted the Democrats to focus on the war, he didn't know how to get the other Democrats to agree that the war should be a major part of the Democrats agenda.

"Cindy said she asked Dean whether the war would be part of the agenda. He replied, she said, that hed like it to be but couldnt figure out how, because it was such a hard question. Hire me, Cindy said shed told him, because I dont think its hard!

This makes more sense. We all know that the Democrats are all over the map about the war.

Keep up the pressure people, that's all we can do.

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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. "We don't know how"?
Uh we pull out! Duh! Vietnam Mr. Dean?
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Kevin Spidel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Yeah... Cindy's response to that was...
Maybe we are marching too fast... maybe we should "slow down" so he gets the fact that this is now a majority view that we need out.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Is that really the way he said it? Were you there?
Dean is not known for being a stupid man. There is connotation and sense to words. Did Cindy pick up on them? Is she trying to be divisive?

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RazzleDazzle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
48. She sounds a little naive or perhaps ill-informed as to what
Dean's position actually is. "No policy!" said Pelosi and Reid. Remember? Seems to me figuring out how to get out of Iraqnam would be considered policy. Too bad Reid and Pelosi don't seem to have the time or perhaps interest in doing that for the Party.

Sheehan is definitely a one-issue voter right now, so to speak, and that's how it should be. So she can take the opportunity to diss Dean on what she apparently doesn't understand he can't involve himself in (i.e., policy re Iraq), but ater what I've seen of her and what Dean said about her, my guess is she'd be classy enough to disavow those tawdry remarks by the PDA guy. I hope so.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Perhaps you guys need to get together.
You and David Swanson and his diaries at Kos and Democrats.com. It is inexcusable for him to ask if Dean is drunk, and it is not good policy to twist words said at a private meeting.

Dean's words were gracious. Your director's words are not.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. David Swanson is not my director
and if Dean didn't want to be criticized, he should have stayed in Vermont.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Writing an article "Is Dean Drunk" is inexcusable.
I linked to it above.

David is listed on the board of directors' page at PDA. If you can't find it I linked to it elsewhere will find.

He is on the board of directors.

Cindy is trying to make Dean sound dumb. Not good policy, Will.

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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Dean doesn't need help in sounding dumb
He has always done a good job on his own.

Not saying he is dumb, but he DOES say dumb things.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. Your position and your group's position is coming clear now.
I did not want to believe it, as I thought really that groups could work together.

I can not believe this is happening, but then I should, shouldn't I?

The advocation by many that the party is not viable anymore, only a few months into the new chair's leadership.

I should have known, I guess I did. I had heard this.

I do hope someone else at the meeting will speak up and not treat Howard Dean as being an ignorant man. I hope they will do that.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
47. William - have you or David
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 05:16 PM by shance
entertained blaming those who have the power to actually make such a decision towards ending the war?

Like many of those, including John Kerry who never gave Cindy a straight answer, by the way.

Did David Swanson go after Dean because its just much easier to go after someone who is not actually in the job of legislating policy, than taking on the ones who truly deserve the hotseat of accountability?

Any criticism on Kerry, Clinton or Edwards?

They all wrote the blank check for the war?

Where's David Swanson and his glowing pen on them?

Not to mention he there are quite a few lawmakers on the Shame list he could hit pretty hard with criticism. He's quiet about them.

Instead he hammers Dean.

Why?

You know and I know Dean has little power in effecting policy change, especially with so many ego centric, Republicanized Democrats, which is a loss for our Party and the country because Dean probably has the most concrete, tangible, common sense ideas, and not to mention a wonderful, keen mind.

In addition, with that said he's still light years ahead of McCauliffe on any playing field of accomplishments, and certainly in terms of building an actual bridge between normal Americans and Washington D.C.

Time to get the priorities straight. Why not actually try and help Governor Dean out by showing support for what he is doing, instead of levelling divisive, unecessary critism towards who many believe is unquestionably the best thing the Democratic party has going these days.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Reply
You can reach me at david@davidswanson.org

I attack all those sell-outs all the time, especially Bush and the Republicans, but also the Dems you name.

They're all complicit and all deserve it.

And it's actually easier to go after them, because it avoids the Attacks of the Deaniacs.

But, you know, if you've got one party with it's whole identity tied up in a criminal war, and you've got the majority of the country against the war, then the guy running the opposition party has to be incredibly corrupt or misguided not to take the moral and politically smart position.

David Swanson
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Here are David's posts. He is on the PDA board of directors.
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 01:29 PM by madfloridian
Is Dean Drunk?
http://www.democrats.com/node/6284

Cindy's meeting with Dean
http://david-swanson.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/28/1...

Website: http://www.davidswanson.org

Co-Founder of www.afterdowningstreet.org, Washington Director of www.Democrats.com, board member of www.pdamerica.org .

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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
32. heh heh
Bubble goes *burst*.

That's all I'm sayin'.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Ten posts in one thread
The pop musta hurt.

;)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. No matter what you call it, Will, people are not stupid.
Neither is Dean stupid. I have admired Cindy so much, but she apparently has her agenda set.

I have worked with anti-war groups, but I refuse to work against the party right now. I trust Howard Dean, and I hate to see the PDA making fun of him and in this thread making fun of the rest of us.

Keep it up, people do see.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. ha ha...
Bullshit.

That's all I'm sayin'.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Dean has always been a craven opportunist
His "opposition" to the war has always been opportunistic (Biden-Lugar, anyone?). He was a Howard-come-lately then, and he is a squishy appeaser now.

Rating his credibility against Sheehan's, I would say Cindy 100, Howard 0.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. Yay!
I'm glad Howard Dean met with her. :D
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jmatthan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
40. I had a very personal email exchange with Cindy

Howard Dean has greatly understated the character of Cindy Sheehan.

Not only is Cindy Sheehan all that Howard Dean said, but I found her to be absolutely receptive to comments, steadfast in her task and completely non-partisan.

I warned her, for instance, that she should not make a decision to not pay her taxes without talking to her lawyer and accountant and that she should put any amount due in an escrow account. Within 24 hours she had done all that.

Cindy Sheehan knows her limitations and has stayed well within the Peter Principle - and THAT IS WHY SHE IS A WINNER.

http://jmpolitics.blogspot.com/2005/09/cindy-arrested.h...
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
41. "Is Dean drunk?"
This was asked by a director of the PDA, which is supposed to be for Progressives/the Democratic party?

F'em. I am canceling my membership today.
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RevolutionStartsNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. WTF?
Argh. Who is this guy?
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. He's referring to this article:
http://www.democrats.com/node/6284

The author is a director of PDA.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. "He" is a "she"
:)
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. My apologies, Pastiche
:hi:
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MODemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
42. Love you Howard Dean!
and I'll never change. You are truly a breath of fresh air. :loveya: :thumbsup:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
45. spot on Dr. Dean!
perfect!

:woohoo:
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