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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:41 AM
Original message
Saddam's gassing of the Kurds.
Can someone please provide me with a link to a summary of these events?

Thanks,
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. Was there a recent discussion of it?
Or are you just incapable of using google? Or Wikipedia?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. That was helpful. nt
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Wasn't trying to be helpful, except in the larger sense
People who use this website as a research tool on basic issues like this just clog up the board.
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Waya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. US Army War College: NO PROOF SADDAM GASSED THE KURDS!
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. sure...
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I'll Defer To Professor Cole
eom
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. What did Cole say?
Do you have a link?
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
5. Here ya go:
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 09:48 AM by SteppingRazor
A good one by Juan Cole:
http://hnn.us/articles/1242.html

Here's a Kurdish page with some extremely graphic photos:
http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html

And here's the wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack


Hope that helps!

On edit: In response to some of the above replies, the Juan Cole article refutes these myths that Saddam didn't gas the Kurds, and that it was Iran or someone else.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Be Careful
The revisionists will claim that you and Professor Cole are in cahoots with BFEE...


We don't have to establish that Saddam was good to prove the war is bad....


Peace
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Oh brother. If Juan Cole's with the dark side...
So is... damn, I can't even think of a proper analogy. Juan Cole's about as far from being a Bushista as they come.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Look At The Other Links....
Saddam gassed the Iranians... He gassed the Kurds...


In fact the use of gas is what helped Saddam fight Iran to a stalemate after he foolishly attacked them...


Again. one does not have to think Saddam is good to think the war is bad....


Peace...
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Well, yeah. We're agreeing here...
I'm aware of what Saddam did, and I've already read the other links. If I comment on something, I've read it. (ahem. Sorry if that came across as harsh at all. My biggest pet peeve on DU is people telling me I need to "read up" on whatever topic. As if I'd comment on something I don't know anything about).

In any case, I don't see where we're disagreeing. Yes, Saddam gassed the Kurds. Yes, he gassed Iran. Yes, he did it with chemical weapons made from components that WE sold him. Saddam was and is a monster.

Well, not really. He's really just a cheap bully who was given what he needed to take his bullying to the next step. Like the biggest, fattest kid in the schoolyard, only if the schoolyard is the Middle East and the fat is chemical weapons :evilgrin:
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I Knew We Are In Agreement From The Gitgo
I think Saddam was in the Stalinesque mode... He was a sociopath who was unnecessarily cruel...


He reminds me of a sociopath like Al Capone... The Mafia used harsh methods to achieve their goals but no harsher than what was necessary... Saddam like a Capone or Stalin were cruel just for the hell of it...
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. Where'd he get the gas?
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 12:08 PM by mzteris
". . . Thiodiglycol, a substance needed to manufacture deadly mustard gas, made its way to Iraq via Alcolac International, Inc., a Maryland company, since dissolved and reformed as Alcolac Inc., and Phillips, once a subsidiary of Phillips Petroleum and now part of ConocoPhillips, an American oil and energy company.The Weekly contacted the Texas law firms representing Alcolac Inc. and
ConocoPhillips for comment, but only Ronald Welsh, Alcolacs lawyer responded. I have no personal knowledge that Alcolac supplied Iraq with a component of mustard gas, said Welsh. Alcolacs attorney also claimed he didnt know that Gary Pitts had obtained Iraqs 1997 Weapons Declaration, but said he intends to challenge its authenticity in court. Alcolac was one of a handful of corporations prosecuted by the U.S. Justice Department for illegal exports.

Although Alcolac allegedly supplied its mustard-gas ingredient to Iraq and Iran, the Justice Department indicted the company in 1988
only for its illegal exports to Iran, via a German company, Chemco. A Chemco executive, who arranged the sales, was convicted of violating export laws. Alcolacs chemicals allegedly made their way to Iraq through Nu Kraft Mercantile Corp., via Jordan. In 1989, Alcolac pleaded guilty to one count of violating U.S. export laws.

Husseins troops used mustard gas against the Iranians in their war and also against Kurdish civilians at Halabjah in 1988.


. . . Iraq would never have developed its chemical-, biological- and nuclear-weapons program or even its conventional missiles without technology and material support supplied by a phalanx of American and international corporations. It also helped mightily that officials in the first Bush presidency many of whom now
work for George W. Bush were willing to look the other way or directly assist Saddam Husseins regime.

Between 1985 and 1990, the U.S. government approved 771 licenses for
exports of biological agents, high-tech equipment and military items to Iraq, reported Representative Sam Gejdenson (D-Connecticut) in 1991. Those exports were valued at $1.5 billion, said Gejdenson, who was the chairman of the House Subcommittee of the Foreign Affairs Committee at the time.

"The United States spent virtually an entire decade making sure that Saddam Hussein had almost whatever he wanted.... We continued to approve this equipment until just weeks before Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait," declared, according to a Congressional transcript.
Gejdenson also told his subcommittee that the State Department refused to impose controls on the export of biological toxins to Iraq until 1989, even though it knew Hussein used chemical weapons against Iranian troops during the Iran-Iraq war as well as Kurdish civilians. And, he added, the administration of the elder George Bush had lobbied, right up to "July 27, 1990 six days before Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait," against a proposed House amendment that would have restricted agricultural credits to Iraq.

In a 1991 speech on the House floor, Texas Democratic Congressman Henry Gonzalez denounced the billions in financial support given to Hussein with assistance from both the Reagan and Bush administrations. . . .

The USA in bed with Saddam Gonzalez also reported that U.S. officials under Reagan and Bush routinely ignored evidence that Iraq was using its weapons of mass destruction. He cited congressional testimony by Paul Freedenberg, the chief export-licensing official at
the Department of Commerce during parts of both the Reagan and Bush
administrations, to underscore that point. "In the summer of 1988, a number of licenses were pending with regard to technology transfers to Iraq," testified Freedenberg. "I asked for official guidance
with regard to what the licensing policy would be toward Iraq, since by then there was credible evidence of the use of poison gas by the Iraqis against their own people and also against the Iranians."
Freedenberg told Congress that he suggested the "imposition of foreign controls" be used to justify the denial of these export licenses. But the National Security Council told him to treat these exports as "normal trade."


Companies Being Sued for Ties with Iraq
The following companies are named in the Gulf vets class-action suit, which claims the companies aided Iraqs weapons program. None of these companies has admitted any wrongdoing; some have yet to be served with the lawsuit alleging wrongdoing:
# Preussag, a German company, allegedly built a chemical-weapons facility.
# Schott Glaswerke, a German company, allegedly provided specialized
equipment for chemical plants.
# Klockner, a German company, allegedly sold Iraq spare machine parts for its chemical-weapons facilities.
# Sigma Aldrich Corp., a German company, allegedly sold biological-weapons equipment.
# Chemap A.G., a Swiss company, allegedly sold specialized equipment for Iraqs bioweapons program.
# American Type Culture Collection, a U.S. company, supplied biological agents and pathogens to Iraq.
# Phillips, now part of ConocoPhillips, an American oil and energy company, allegedly sold chemicals used in the production of mustard gas.
# Alcolac International, a U.S. company, allegedly sold chemicals used in the production of mustard gas.
# Alfa Laval, a Swedish company, allegedly sold specialized equipment for Iraqs bioweapons program.
# Karl Kolb, a German company, allegedly built a chemical-agent factory.
# WET, a German company, allegedly sold specialized equipment for Iraqs bioweapons program.
# Herberger, a German company, allegedly built bio-weapons facilities. LA Weekly 21-27 March, 2003 52 "


Click on a company name or U.S. government agency from the list below to go directly to a description of their acknowledged or documented involvement with Iraq. http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/23/news-crogan.php > in order to do this. Active links found there;>

Some of these businesses are no longer operating. A number of these
companies did not respond to the Weeklys calls for comment. All who did denied wrongdoing, even when they confirmed their exports to Iraq. Some companies have since changed hands, and representatives of the new businesses said they had no information on exports by the old firms. Nearly all of the documentation for this list comes from official sources, investigations and multiple interviews with authoritative sources. Some of the source material is presented at the end of the entire list.

Index of American Companies (and international companies with U.S. affiliates):
AT&T
AL HADDAD ENTERPRISES, INC.
ALCOLAC INTERNATIONAL
AMERICAN TYPE CULTURE COLLECTION
ASSOCIATED INSTRUMENTS DISTRIBUTORS, INC.
AXEL ELECTRONICS
BANCA NAZIONALE DEL LAVORO
BECHTEL GROUP
BREEZEVALE, INC.
CANBERRA INDUSTRIES
CARL SCHENCK AG
CARL ZEISS
CATERPILLAR, INC.
COMTEC INTERNATIONAL, INC.
CONSARC
COPELAND INTERNATIONAL, INC.
DATA GENERAL CORP
DEKTOR COUNTERINTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY, INC.
DOW CHEMICAL
DRESSER CONSTRUCTION AND EQUIPMENT
DUPONT
E G & G PRINCETON APPLIED RESEARCH
EASTMAN KODAK CO.
ELECTRONICS ASSOCIATES, INC.
ENTRADE INTERNATIONAL, LTD.
EVAPCO
FINNIGAN MAT US
FOXBORO COMPANY
GERBER SYSTEMS TECHNOLOGY
GORMAN-RUPP
HARDINGE BROTHERS
HEWLETT-PACKARD
HIPOTRONICS
HONEYWELL
HUGHES HELICOPTER
IBM
INTERNATIONAL IMAGING SYSTEMS
INTERNATIONAL SIGNAL AND CONTROL
IONICS
KENNAMETAL, INC.
LEYBOLD VACUUM SYSTEMS
LINCOLN ELECTRIC CO.
LITTON INDUSTRIES
LUMMUS CREST, INC.
MBB HELICOPTER CORP.
MACK TRUCKS, INC.
MAHO AG
MATRIX CHURCHILL CORP.
McNEIL AKRON, INC.
MEMPHIS INTERNATIONAL, INC.
MILLER ELECTRIC
MOUSE MASTER
NCR CORPORATION
NRM CORP.
NORWALK CO.
NU KRAFT MERCANTILE CORP.
PERKIN-ELMER CORP.
PHILLIPS EXPORT
POSI SEAL, INC.
PRESRAY CORP.
PURE AIRE
REDLAKE IMAGING CORP.
REXON TECHNOLOGY CORP.
ROCKWELL INTERNATIONAL CORP.
ROTEC INDUSTRIES, INC.
SACKMAN ASSOCIATES
SCIENTIFIC ATLANTA
SCIENTIFIC DESIGN CO., INC.
SEMETEX
SERVAAS, INC.
SIEMENS CORP.
SIP CORP.
SPECTRAL DATA CORP.
SPECTRA PHYSICS
SPERRY CORP.
SULLAIRE CORP.
SWISSCO MANAGEMENT GROUP, INC.
TECHNICAL COMMUNICATIONS CORP.
TEKTRONIX
TELEDYNE WAH CHANG
THERMO JARRELL ASH CORP.
TI COATING
TRADING AND INVESTMENT CORP.
UNION CARBIDE
UNISYS CORP.
VEECO INSTRUMENTS, INC.
WILD MAGNAVOX SATELLITE SURVEY
WILTRON
XYZ OPTIONS, INC.
YORK INTERNATIONAL CORP.
ZETA LABORATORIES

Index of U.S. Government Agencies:
CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION
CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
DEPARTMENT OF STATE
NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
U.S. NUCLEAR WEAPONS LABORATORIES

Foreign Companies:
(Number of foreign firms by country note: Some of these firms receive substantial financial support from their governments):
AUSTRIA: 3
BELGIUM: 7
CHINA: 3
EGYPT: 1
FRANCE: 9
GERMANY: 18
GREAT BRITAIN: 24
INDIA: 1
JAPAN: 5
LUXEMBOURG: 1
NETHERLANDS: 3
PORTUGAL: 1
SINGAPORE: 1 (Note: This company, KIM AL-KHALEEJ, also has links to
Dubai.)
SPAIN: 3
SWEDEN: 2
SWITZERLAND: 7
USSR/RUSSIA: 6

http://www.aaargh.com.mx/fran/livres4/USAibwS.pdf


"One former Iraqi officer, General al-Shamari, told Newsweek that he was in charge of firing chemical weapons from howitzers against Iranian troops, and that U.S. satellite information provided the targeting information. A former CIA official confirmed to Newsweek that the U.S. provided military intelligence to Iraq, including on chemical warfare. General al-Shamari now lives safely in the U.S., running a restaurant outside of Washington DC." (See http://www.ips-dc.org/iraq/primer4.htm#33 .) Murky business indeed!
http://www.swans.com/library/art8/ga138.html
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
14. HRW and AI have excellent summaries and research--especially HRW.
During the 1980's, it was the left who denounced Saddam and it was the rightwingers who supported him and armed him.

Never, ever, ever forget that.
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