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thefloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:51 AM
Original message
What would a perfect DU Economy look like?
I am not talking about Capitalism, Communism or Socialism. What metrics would DUERs use to determine the Economy is fantastic? Would the Clinton economy be number 1 on the list?
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think the Clinton economy was pretty darned good. n/t
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. What Grannie Said...
It was as good as it "can" get...
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. My family was better off during Clinton's presidency. Thanks for nothing
chimpy. :grr:
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. Everybody would look at it differently
Certainly a return to sanity in our taxation code, strengthening of the EPA's regulatory power, strengthening of worker protections would top my list, along with serious investment in energy alternatives.

Maybe I don't understand the question - are you asking for what we'd like to see the economy doing? The form of the economy? Or more what sort of numbers we'd like to see?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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thefloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Sorry I was not clear enough
Du has been dicussing diffent Philosophies ex socialism so on and so forth. Which will not happen. I want to know what form our economy would need to take for DU to say "yea the economy is great".
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_Winston_Smith_101 Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. National Healthcare is priority number#1
I favor the Hillary Clinton model of 1993.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. First and foremost, a Gini Ratio of 0.35 or less.
We've got a long way back to travel. The Gini Ratio (also called the Gini Index or Gini Coefficient) describes the inequality of income distribution, where a higher ratio indicates increased wealth concentration in the hands of fewer people -- often characterized in the press as a "disappearing middle class."

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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. Livable wages that afford people housing, food, and clothing, and medical
care to start. Easy access to mass transit that is affordable. Allows anyone who is capable and so wishes access to higher education. And prior to that gives all children good and equal access to preschool-grade 12. Jobs with patriotic companies that don't offshore to avoid paying US taxes. End to Corporate welfare. End to CEO salaries that greedily take all the profits while the workers go years without raises.
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_Winston_Smith_101 Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Minimum National Wage Needed!
$50,000 minimum a year for a family of four!
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
8. employees could be choosy about who they work for
and would be able to leave if working conditions were not satisfactory

Instead of employers being able to choose which of hundreds of job applicants are cheapest and most exploitable, and being able to fire at whim

A combination of a tight labor market and shifts in labor and employment laws would help
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MildyRules Donating Member (739 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. They can leave
NO one is FORCED to work for anyone.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. do you understand the difference between a seller's market
and a buyer's market?

I didn't think so.
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MN ChimpH8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
9. Whatever indicates that Norway and Sweden
have good economies. Make our numbers look like theirs and we will be getting somewhere.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
12. Here Are The Metrics I Use
Productivity per capita (not per worker)
Employment Saturation
Proportion of Households Below the Poverty Line
Multiples of the Poverty Line That Represents Median Household Income
Total Inflation, Including Direct Energy & Food
Fraction of GDP That Rerpesents M1 (An indicator of velocity)
Fraction of GDP Growth Represented by Increase in Fed. Deficit

Yes, during the Clinton administration, these values were all superb. The values peaked high (where high was good and dipped low (likewise) in 1998 & 1999.

The ideal economy is one in which real wage improvements exceed inflation for at least 5 years; employment is very low; internal productivity exceeds 75% of consumption; velocity of money is at least 5.

How's that?
The Professor
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thefloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. What I was looking for
on top of the Policy issues mentioned above. Are you really a Professor?
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Used To Be
In industry now. More money in that and i can completely pick & choose which classes i want to teach. But, i still teach grad classes from time to time. Mostly in econometric modeling and statistical analysis.

I'm still a member of a national economics organization and write papers for publication about every three years or so. Keeps me a member in good standing.

But,
The Professor
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thefloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Interesting
I am now attending Saint Louis University getting a Master of Science in Finance. Also looking to start CFA examination. How is the job market?
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Not Sure, Sorry
Given the discipline, it shouldn't be a problem. Almost any industry needs people who know what you will. But, still we should always cross our fingers when job hunting.
The Professor
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thefloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Also
Double Majored in Finance and Economics at University of Missouri.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
18. I like the "Popsicle Index" model devised by Catherine Austin Fitts:

Understanding the "Popsicle Index" (aka "Solari Index")

To help people understand how the global financial system affects their neighborhood, I came up with a very simple quality of life index based on one question:

What percentage of the people in your place believes that a child can go to the nearest place to buy a popsicle or other treat, and return home alone safely?

Your answer gives you the Solari Index of your place. For example, if you think 50% of your neighbors believe a child in your neighborhood would be safe, then your Solari Index is 50%. The Solari Index is based on gut level feelings, rather than facts and figures.

The real purpose of the Solari Index is to start a conversation in every neighborhood and village on earth about what it means to feel safe and secure where you live and work.

Maybe passersby can be trusted to leave the child alone, but they drive like maniacs through your neighborhood. Maybe the child will be safe, but the parents are concerned about all the junk food marketed to young kids. Maybe the family is too poor to give the child money for a treat. Maybe the child will be perfectly safe going to the market alone, but die of a preventable disease before the age of 18 for lack of basic healthcare. Or maybe there is no market nearby, or any jobs either, so everyone commutes to someone elses neighborhood to work and shop and bank.

This leads to discussion about the job market, job security, unemployment, and how quickly all the money is leaving your neighborhood, the drain of credit card debt as well as what the national debt and state budget cuts are costing, along with dwindling healthcare benefits and retirement security, the fate of local family farms and businesses, natural resources and the local water supply, and generally how hard everyone is working just to make ends meet.

As the conversation unfolds, it is clear that the drain we are experiencing is spiritual as much as financial -- how we experience a negative return on investment economy that is out of alignment with the well-being of our families, communities, and planet; an economy that is organized around the Dow Jones going up from our Solari Indexes going down.

As the conversation unfolds, friends and neighbors begin to understand what is important to each other and to sense opportunities to help each other feel safer.

Now I ask:

If the Solari Index in your place is less than 100%, what will it take to raise it to 100%? And who is responsible to make that happen?

This leads to a discussion of the Solari Opportunity, which is an invitation to create wealth from our Solari Index going up to 100%.

Catherine Austin Fitts


The Down Jones going up while the Popsicle Index goes down: This is very important to understand. For me, if ECONOMICS does not have a QUALITATIVE means by which to evaluate WEALTH, then what we have now is what we inevitably get. Although the material quality of life went UP during the Clinton administration, I would say that on the whole the QUALITY of life decreased for many people. I am being subjective here. For example, look at the number of schools which felt they needed to put fences up around their campuses or install metal detectors for students to pass through.

The QUALITY of life of the average citizen in a working class community is an economic matter, but it isn't merely about how much money one has. The VALUE of that money is important, no doubt. But there are other considerations. How much is a SAFE neighborhood worth? --And by "safe" I'm thinking of all the things Catherine mentions above. If a society does not have healthy citizens, does not have clean air and drinking water, does not have access to good health care, good food and so on, how can it be considered a WEALTHY society, regardless of how much money the citizen may have to spend on 27 different brands of deoderant?

Then comes the hard part: How does a society implement these concerns? Does a society pass laws which DICTATE the way people should live? Or does a society recognize THE RELATIONSHIP between economics and the QUALITY of life? This, I think, is what the Solari model is attempting to do.


For more on the Solari Index see the article:
"A Conversation About The Popsicle Index"
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0301/S00117.htm
and
Learning About Solari:
http://www.solari.com/learn/index.htm
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. Yup. In Clinton's economy - everyone did their fair share in keeping
the country healthy. Everyone had to sacrifice at times.
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