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Question For Those That Actually ATTENDED The Washington March.

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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:11 AM
Original message
Question For Those That Actually ATTENDED The Washington March.
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 07:11 AM by DistressedAmerican
How did you feel about the event?

I hear a shitload of largely armchair quarterbacks trying to tell me that this event was ruined by ANSWER and their diverse goals.

I certainly did not get any such vibe on the ground. The issue never even crossed my mind until I got home and found all of these posts bitching and whining about how awful the event was. I just do not get it. Why the hell is everyone so obsessed that a few folks make remarks that were at best tangential to the main theme. People here act like the whole rally was taken over by other interests. That is definitely not the experience I had.

Regardless of people's opinions on Mumia or Palestine, from what I saw, 99 percent of folks there were on the same message, the war. All of the news reports I saw indicated a large rally of anti-war protesters. Nothing said about the other groups.

So, if you were actually at the rally, what did you think? Was the event a big failure as some would like to paint it? Was the focus completely lost?

I for one sure as hell did not think so. I thought it was well attended and for the most part right on message. I suspect that the crowd would have been a lot smaller had they not participated.

I think the TV crowd may have gotten a far different impression of the event than those of us on the ground and participating. I saw no problem with either turnout or the message. But, maybe that is just me.

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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. I agree with your assessment
I was in DC, and ANSWER wasn't even on my radar.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well, I wasn't there, but I agree with you :). That's kind of the point
of my earlier post telling folks if they don't like ANSWER then step up to the plate and organize something instead of complaining about it.

The same thing happened with the rally here in Boston back in March on the anniversary of the start of the war . . . for weeks afterward, the indymedia site was bombarded with whining people complaining of everything from having flags at the event (the majority of which were used on coffins as they have been at many rallies) to not staging an unpermitted march quickly enough (which might have gotten the entire event shut down). Hell, the only thing people could agree on at all was that having Howard Zinn give an unscheduled speech was extremely invigorating and cool.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. I was there. It was a great march. Also, I had Howard as my professor
for many enjoyable, thought-growing classes at BU. He's the best.

:hi:
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Sadly, I Think I May The Our University's Most Radical Prof.
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 07:53 AM by DistressedAmerican
Can we borrow Howard for a little while? Anyone have a number for Chomsky?
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moddemny Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
45. The march itself was very good
....... the problem is for the next march. ANSWER throws out their web address at the podium and people go home, type it in, (not to mention the ones that watch on TV) do just a little research and find out some of the positions ANSWER is tied to. I wonder if some of you people actually read the thrust of many of the complaints against ANSWER. What happened in Bosnia may not have been your reality but it was for many others. When people see ANSWER wants Milosevic free, it repulses a lot of people, and that's just one of their ludicrous positions. Come to New York and take a walk through downtown, you'll probably find some falun gong dissidents with there set ups on the street. Ask them about how they feel about being tortured by the Communists in China. I was at the march, I am not an armchair quarterback, that's just the spin put out against those with anti-ANSWER complaints. Try thinking about the complaints against ANSWER, realize the demographic of people you are alienating and then try to find your own common sense which seems to be the real thing that went missing in action with many people.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
49. Which Boston area school do you teach in?
What's your field? Just curious.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Not Boston. I Teach Archaeology.
Not posting the school as I have many freeps that have nothing better to do than dog me.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. These Days of Future Passed
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 05:46 PM by leveymg
What will future generations make of the ruins we create, I wonder?

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NewInNewJ. Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. My husband & I were there,
our first demonstration. We listened to some of the speakers, but I got the impression that most people, as well as us ,were there to march against the war. There were a few things I saw or heard that I didn't like, but that happens everywhere you go.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Good For You! Hitting The Streets Is The Only Tool We As Citizens Have.
Our own party won't even stand up for us. We have to do it ourselves! :applause:
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Here's what I saw...
I was at the half-way point (across from the Treasury Bldg on 15th) with Billionaires For Bush.

The crowd passing us was 30 people deep (with 4-6 marching on the sidewalk behind us-- overflow) for 3 1/2 hours.

The longest pause in the march near us was about 90 seconds.

That was the loudest, biggest march I've ever attended (and I've attended dozens).

The only disappointing part for me was 3 or 4 people behind us on the balcony with a bullhorn chanting "Death to Israel!Death to Zionism!"

EVERYONE marching (except one confused guy) cheered us Billionaires and thanked us for doing what we do.

It was amazing!

When I got home, I couldn't believe the lack of news coverage!



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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
54. All I saw
was hundreds of thousands of people against this war and this administration. <http://www.thepulsenny.com/_fileCabinet/dcmarch1.wmv >
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. Sweet! Thanks for the video!
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. I wasn't there
but my point is that I couldn't be there, primarily because I got behind at work preparing to serve Kartrina evacuees. I tuned into CSPAN to watch the demonstration. Instead I got the ANSWER rally. Which wouldn't have been so bad, but it went over by hours. CSPAN gave them 3 hours, and they used the whole thing for the rally So as a result, if I wanted to watch events in Washington I had to watch f'n traffic cams. Anybody who wanted to tune in, got no sense of the spirit of the march, the numbers of the march, or the anti-war sentiment of the march. If Answer had stuck to its time line it would have given America (at least us Cspan watchers) a better sense of what was going on in Washington that day. I am glad to hear that people at the march were able to get that spirit, and get that view of the whole event. Those of us limited to CSPAN were not.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. That Was What I Was Wondering.
I think folks that were not there got a very distorted view of the event as a whole due to the coverage aspects.

Surely, running over time did not help that issue one bit. However, I can tell you that on the ground it was a apparently a very differnent.

I find myself wondering, why are people not yelling about C-SPAN? It seems to me like they could have left the speeches any time they chose to and cover the march. It sounds like a shame that they didn't.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. I had a wonderful time
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 07:23 AM by DoYouEverWonder
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

ANSWER? Who?

Most of the people there went to march and the March was a blast. It felt so good to be with so many like minded people.


Here's some pics I took at the March and the RFD's later on that night.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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swimboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. It was wonderful and it was great to get to meet you.
It's very different now when I can picture the person behind the posts! :hi:
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Yes, I agree
It was a lot of fun, especially booing W everytime he came on the TV at RFD's.

It was great to meet you too :hi:

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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. I was there
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 07:29 AM by RagingInMiami
And it was one of the most impressive events I have ever attended. It was refreshing to see the turnout and how it attracted people from all levels of society. And it was empowering to see the anger directed towards bush and the war.

I walked against the flow of the march from the first group to the last group because I was taking photos. And the groups that were marching for a different cause, say Palestine or the Philipines, made up less than five percent -- if even that -- of the total marchers.

If ANSWER promotes or organizes another protest, I will be there in a heartbeat.

EDIT: To those who are bitching and complaining about it because of what they saw on C-Span, they are simply letting the media manipulate their feelings. They might as well be drinking the Kool-Aid.
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babydollhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
31. I saw you there
...all 500,000 of you. The crowd was diverse and beautiful. I had a lump in my throat many times. This is only the beginning. The messege will clarify and whittle itself down to one thing...this counry needs to CLEAN HOUSE, and hunker down to repair this damage done of greed. Number one...air. water. earth. peace. truth. step by step and breath by breath. we must not shut up or beat each other down. each one teach one. walk the walk. do not go back to sleep.
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
9. I was there, and I thought it was a great success
You know my opinion is that if the people in the sixties had waited to protest the Vietnam war until they could organize with 100,000 people who agreed with them on every single issue, we might still have a war in Vietnam. Think about it.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
10. Here's the story DA
"I just do not get it. Why the hell is everyone so obsessed that a few folks make remarks that were at best tangential to the main theme. People here act like the whole rally was taken over by other interests. That is definitely not the experience I had."

You were there. You and a few hundred thousand other Americans. You know the truth and the rest of those who attended know the truth.

But the millions of other Americans who were not there... do not know the truth. We did not get the sense of the energy and positive vibes, or the huge cross section of Americans who were represented at the march. All we saw (those of us who cared enough to watch C-Span) was the speeches, in "tight shot" with no panoramic views of the size of the crowd.. And after a couple of hours, all we saw were the ANSWER "issue" speakers... talking to a sparse, less interested crowd (i.e. those who hadn't moved on to the march.)

Those of us who were DETERMINED to see the march, and were online and communicating with each other, had to watch the DC TRAFFIC CAMS to see any of the march at all.

We saw no march on TV anywhere, or on the news that night, for the most part.

The fact is, that a chance to get the word out to the vast reaches of this country was squandered by two things. (Whether or not they were in collusion is up to your own tin-hat fit.)

1) C-Span stayed at the podium to the bitter end. They aired the speaker's references to the march, but showed none of it. NONE OF IT.
2) ANSWER's speakers got fringier and fringier and their audience got thinner and thinner as the coverage wound up.

This is what spawned the furious threads here that day.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. It Sounds To Me Like The C-Span Coverage Really Distorted The Event.
I wish that C-SPAN had broken away from the speeches and followed the march. That is what most of us did on the ground and we apparently got a much more positive impression of the event. However, ANSWER should have stuck to the time they advertized. Had they done that, I think the coverage would have given everyone else a much better impression of the event.

I just want to remind folks that what they saw on TV was a clear distortion of what actually occured. Not uncommon. I think that the media has every bit as much blame to carry as anyone working ther asses of to organize the event.

And hey, I got to hear George Galloway speak. I would have made the trip just for that!
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. they DID stick to the time...
But the podium speeches went on WAY past schedule.. It's like they were talking out the clock..

(pretty bows on my tin-foil hat set off my emerald green eyes)
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
12. It was great. Nothing was ruined by ANSWER.
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 07:28 AM by bowens43
They , along with United for Peace and Justice, did an excellent job of organizing this event. Yes, the speeches went a little long and a couple of them were not right on message, but did they ruin the event? Not even close. The event was a HUGE success. I have attended many anti-war demonstrations since the beginning of the the war against the people of Iraq was launched, this one was without a doubt the best. The speakers were dynamic, the people were friendly, the police were non-threatening, the turnout was tremendous.

Make no mistake, especially those of you who were not there, this was an ANTI-WAR rally. Period.
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abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
14. I Agree With You
The problem was the tv cameras were focused on what was more contentious, which is ANSWER. When you were there, as I was, you felt the energy focused on ending the war (and hating Bush) which felt very, very good. And some people are more against ANSWER's philosophy than they are for the end of the Iraq war.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. I wasn't there
but I think your take on the MSM focus on ANSWER is probably spot on. They are more out there and therefore more interesting.

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abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Another Insight
I did not see any disruptions at the march. It was very mellow. But that evening I was talking to a young man who was a photographer with Reuters. I mentioned the "peace" of the march. He proceeded to pull out photos showing people on ground with police standing over them. He then told me he "hung out" with anarchists all day. Well, he wanted to find that type of picture for Reuters. And he did. Another point in our favor that MSM looks for the picture/story, etc., that will bring about negativity.
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swimboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
15. It was positive and amazing.
Yes, I had my moment of rolling my eyes and even feeling put out when the speakers brought up Mumia and Palestine, but we shrugged it off and went to march as we had come to do. I can't imagine deciding to leave without marching because of the fringe speakers. Better if they didn't speak, (it's a terrible source for this but) you march with the protest you have, not the one you wish you had.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
17. I was there with my two children, my sister and her friend
We all had a wonderful time. We spent about an hour listening to fringe speakers and actually heard audible disagreement with some of what was being said. We decided to leave and start marching because it was getting a bit redundant and boring.

I don't care about ANSWER or fringe speakers and I have said this a number of times. My focus was protesting the illegal war in Iraq and making my voice heard for myself, my children and my country. I thought the march was the most diverse I have ever attended.

I say the people bashing ANSWER have Bernard Goldberg Syndrome. Instead of concentrating on those who are really destroying our country they are focusing on those who have nothing to do with it.
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
21. Well hallelujah
I was there, and ANSWER was, to me, nothing more than a group by the side of the road.

What was important was this - America saw 500,000 people against George Bush. All in one place.

They did not see 25,000 people in 20 different places.

Doesn't anyone get the simple premise that NUMBERS are what matter here?

25,000 people in 20 cities - no coverage.

500,000 people in D.C., demonstrating against Bush and his policies? Coverage.

I said this last evening - my 80 year old mom watched coverage of the march. So did her friends. Do you think any of them has a clue who ANSWER is?

Of course not - what they saw were thousands and thousands and thousands of people, and THAT image of the large crowd is what people see.

Damn it, 500,000 people in one place means - to TV America - that this movement is real, OK?

What we need next time is 1 million people in D.C. - so to those folks who have said they will not go predicated on who is running the show I ask you to talk with my mom, or yours, or anyone else's.

Ask them if they saw an anti-war march on Saturday.

Then ask them who sponsored it.

They'll get half the questions right.

As it should be.

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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Where did they watch it?
Who covered it? Did anyone see more than a 30 second spot? I'm really curious, because I looked and looked and didn't see anything about the MARCH.
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. My mom lives in Connecticut
She gets most of her info from the 6 p.m./11 p.m. newscasts, and sometimes CNN (I'm working to change that, however. :) )

She told me that there were fairly comprehensive reports on all those newscasts. I can't vouch for the length of the reports, but the fact that she saw coverage (and more importantly became aware of the size and scope of the march) was good enough for me.

i tend to believe her, because she was really mad that there was hardly any coverage of Cindy and Crawford by the above mentioned sources.
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #25
60. I was going to ask that too
CNN did not cover it, and Aaron Brown who must have received thousands of complaints about that, tried to assure those who wrote to CNN that the lack of coverage 'was not a conspiracy' but Rita was an act of god and that's the way the cookie crumbles, or some such nonsense.

What was important was this - America saw 500,000 people against George Bush. All in one place.

No, American did NOT see that there were hundreds of thousands of people there, they only saw ANSWER's podium, which started with about four great speakers, Cindy, Jesse Jackson, Galloway and they only spoke for a few minutes, then it was hours of people talking about everything from Communism to poetry ~ and anyone who tuned in, saw a crowd diminishing rapidly, and heard voices droning on and on and most likely tuned out. Over two hours of it.

I went to other networks, and saw nothing either, just Rita coverage.

There seems to be a real misunderstanding about this.

Those of us who could not go, KNEW how great it would be, we wanted to be there with you all in spirit at least, and to see all the work you all did ~ but after being told to watch C-Span and never, not once, seeing any march, it felt like being left out, or maybe the march didn't start yet?

Or, in my case, at least for a while, I thought after hearing about the Metro problems, that people couldn't get there!!

And this is people who KNEW about it, searching for coverage ~ others I bet, probably millions, still have no idea there even was a march.

I don't know anything about ANSWER, but it was their sign I saw on C-Span. At first I thought they would announce 'and now on to the march and the cameras would follow them. But that never happened, the speakers got worse and worse, the crowd smaller and smaller, and then it was over!!

Anyway, there's no point in continuing this. All we wanted YOU all, who were lucky enough to be there, to know was, we wanted to share in the experience. I am so glad it was such a success, which I found out once I got online and saw the wonderful pictures posted by people who were there ~ and the videos.

And the better I know it was, the worse I feel that so few got to see it, other than the half a million who were there. I thought it was being helpful to let all those who worked so hard and who did such an outstanding job, how the media did not cover it, even C-Span, so that next time, something different could be done.

It seems wishing for that, has gotten a lot of people flamed, as though they were the enemy, rather than feeling so bad that you all were so great, but unless you were there, there was a total, media blackout, even on C-Span.

I know some elderly people who simply are too old to go to such an event, who would have loved to have seen it on television. It would have given them hope for their country.

Btw, what about Current TV? I don't get it, but for the future, could that be an option that would at least allow more people to see these very important events the media refuses to cover?
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. What Drew Flames Were The Attacks On The Event. The Problem Was The Media
Edited on Thu Sep-29-05 10:05 AM by DistressedAmerican
That is the point of this entire thread, to make people direct their anger toward the media that distorted the event and failed to cover effectively.

That is where the hostility should be directed. Not at the event organizers. They have no power to make the media show the event in an appropriate light.

You seem to get part of the equation but, you do not seem to see how misdirected the anger was.
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #61
65. I'm not angry at the organizers
I was involved with, such as the Military Families and the IVAW. I am and will always be angry at the MSM, which I gave up on a long time ago.

Since I couldn't be there, (like millions of other Americans, some elderly, some with sickness in the family, some who could not get off work, or for various reasons, but wanted to be there in spirit) many were told to watch C-Span, which has done great coverage of some of the marches in the past. All I saw was three hours of very boring and yelling people, none of whom I knew, except for the first few, and as I sad, a very depressing, rapidly diminishing crowd, which I thought was people becoming bored as I was, and just leaving, since we had no way of knowing what happened to the march.

I have no idea why that happened, it was probably the worst two and a half hours of television I've ever seen. And I can see the excitement of those who were there, and we all envy that. And now, thanks to you and others like you, I am reassured that it was a great march.

But what is so wrong with telling you all what the rest of us experienced? Isn't that the best way to correct it in the future, whether it was C-Span's fault or ANSWER's? I don't know why C-Span did not, as you say, go cover the march. But they didn't, that's all we're saying.

But thank you so much for all you do, I've seen your posts here, and loved your Camp Casey pictures and your great spirit comes through in your posts, and gets others excited also.

Just wanted to correct the wrong impression that we are criticizing the event. It sounds awesome, the complaints are about not getting to at least see some of it and to feel a part of it, since we all worked to help it happen, even if we couldn't get there. :-)
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Butterflies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
22. Yes, just look at the hundreds of anti-Bush and anti-war signs
I was there and it was definitely almost all about those concerns. There was a vibe of unity in the common causes of ending the war and impeaching Bush - that was what I went there for and I wasn't disappointed. I see it as a VERY successful march, and I came away from it with positive feelings. Nothing is perfect, but Saturday went really well considering 500,000 people were brought together and the overwhelming message was anti-war and anti-bush as expected.
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
23. I was there to march and be counted.....
ANSWER did not effect it for me....
I went to hear some of the speakers but meandered back to the street where people were actually starting to PROTEST.....

Many of us started marching before ANSWER was "done"......

Lots of us knew what we were there for and didn't count on any sort of "entertainment" to get siked to do our part.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
28. I was there
and it was fabulous. Especially the people lined up along the march route just watching and cheering us on. What a street party!

Possibly, Cspan chose not to cover the march because some of the posters might be a little too sensitive for their audience? There were alot, ALOT of F*ck Bush banners, and they didn't use the asterisk! Also, I didn't see them, but I heard there was a group with their ta-ta's exposed (Breasts Not Bombs?).

Other than Cindy and Jesse, I really didn't pay attention to the other speakers :shrug:

Overall, I thought the press gave it fair coverage, especially noting that the fringe groups were in the minority.
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rw3204 Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
29. I live in the DC Metro area and attended...
Thought it was great. One guy on the metro made a snide comment, which I quickly responded to. When I got home and watched the news, I was amazed. They must've looked long and hard for counter protesters, cuz I saw very few.

I went to the march to protest Bush, not just the war. This is the most corrupt, inept administration in history. Arrogance and stupidity are a dangerous combination, and these folks have got both in spades. Yeah, there were a few people off message, so what? Great attendance, great march, great concert, well-behaved crowd, what more could be expected.

On a side note, I watched the Daily Show last night and was pissed. Jon Stewart's coverage of the march was inexcusable. I usually like him, but he made a mockery of the event. Got tickets to see him at GWU, thinking of selling them.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
32. Agree with you and have been pissed by some of the threads here.
Some seem to think that all it would take to end the occupation is just one perfect anti-war march.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
33. sniffa's take from the ground
the groups that i remember from my time there were iraq vets against the war, goLd star moms for peace, the raging grannies, the budhist monks (didn't catch their name), and a group of nuns who sat next to us and asked us to bLow our smoke in another direction.

i aLso remember a few persistant dicks, i mean weLL meaning voLunteers who insisted on teLLing me about a capitaList conspiracy and asking me for $.25, or $.50 or whatever i'd Like to donate so i couLd then own a newspaper expLaining this conspiracy to me.

i remember a woman on stiLts, and a group with those weird scuLptures they made dance/bounce in the air as they waLked.

in short, i don't remember answer.

some can bark and cry aLL they want, and threaten not to go to another protest, or go to their first one; fuck them. i'm sick of their shit, and i'm not gonna Let them continue to minimize what so many of us did this weekend.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #33
63. Self delete
Edited on Thu Sep-29-05 10:15 AM by deutsey
I meant to respond to the OP.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
34. of COURSE it is not your experience. we were at march. we watched
on tv. two different experience. adn we are on your side btw. we are not denigrating your expereince. we WANTED to have your expereince. bummer we did not. we had another expereince. i dont know why you refuse to listen and say i am wrong. listen to cspan coverage, our experience. for three hours. you can easily do our expereince. we were able to experience your march thru the pictures and you conversation and storytelling of what happened on ground. we are jealous and envious that you got to be there. we wanted to be there too. really really bad.

THAT is THE BITCH we have. we got to listen to anti isreal rhetoric and a host of others, for a long time. like over an hour. speech after speech. if it was just here and therre, like beginning, then wouldnt have left the same impression. we listened to speech after speech after speech of this stuff for over an hour. we were wanting to go to the march. we werent allowed. we were stuck listening to this stuff. they were telling us to chant down with isreal.

we didnt get to do what you did.

i am sorry you cannot, or refuse to understand or listen to what we saw.

we are not here to battle you

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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. I'm sorry that the coverage wasn't better for you. I've watched
marches on c-span before when I couldn't attend them and I picked up energy from watching the marchers actually marching. The energy and the crowd in DC Sat. was tremendous. One thing that struck me is remembering watching marches before and seeing people dancing around or having the room to move around, and the entire time that I was marching there wasn't any room like that around me. It was shoulder to shoulder - forget "personal space" - and being careful with signs so that you wouldn't clunk someone in the head.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
35. I went to be one person in a sea of people expressing anger
toward Bush**, the war, and to do my part to punch Bushie** and the repugs in the nose. My 10 yr. old son was with me and he wanted to have his picture taken with the "Buzzards of Compassion" guy. He wore his DU "Freedom Fries" shirt and there were quite a few people who commented on his shirt. On a couple of our homemade signs I had written the names of the 2 towns in TN (representing where the folks who rode the same bus were from) and complete strangers were going out of their way to talk to us because they seemed shocked that ANYONE from TN would be there. The energy was tremendous and no one in my group paid any attention to the 'fringe' ANSWER speeches. After George Galloway spoke we were ready to line up and MARCH!! You know - the reason we were there to begin with.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
36. I was there and I think the March itself was great but....
...the speeches leading up the the march were, well, a little too much. The first hour they had several excellent speakers including Jesse, Cindy, Ramsey and other anti-war speakers. But after that first hour they gave the microphone to any radical group who wanted 10 minutes of mic time in front of a C-Span camera. And by 12:30 the crowds were anxious to march because we were going by the UPJ schedule which said the march would start at 12:30
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
37. ANSWER was a miniscule part of the rally for the people there.
You could barely even hear the speakers outside the elipse, and most people left the stage area once the "fringe" speakers started.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
39. Here are my perceptions
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
40. I was there...
You are right. 99% of the folks were on message. I don't understand the folks who are making a big stink about Answer. Where the real activity was going on, at the march itself, the message was extraordinarily focused.

Our bus was supposed to arrive in VA at about 7am, but due to a glitch or two enroute, we didn't pull into Vienna, VA until 10am. We then had about a half hour metro ride to Federal Triangle, and then maybe a 20 minute walk to get to the Washington Monument area.

Consequently, we were left with little time to see or do anything other than to meet up with our contingent at 14th and Constitution in preparation for the march, set to begin at 12:15, we were told.

As it was, we waited in place for two hours before things started to move. We were directly across from the stage(s) and the Answer group, but didn't want to jump out of line in case things started moving.

Unfortunately, we missed all the speakers, including Cindy Sheehan. My friend and I did walk the entire route, though, and I didn't see anything of note that was off message in terms of "Out of Iraq". There were a couple of people with a flag of Ireland, but I don't remember the message. Other than that, this march was as focused as I've ever seen.

Just my $.02.



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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
41. it rocked.
dear whiners, hand-wringers, armchair activists and red-baiters:

with 300,000 in attendance, you weren't missed.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
42. Well, I Hope That Some Of The Folks That Are Posting These Issues See This
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 01:32 PM by DistressedAmerican
Clearly the C-Span coverage distorted the event for the TV crowd. I think ANSWER is taking a lot more blame than they deserve. Once we started marching C-SPAN should have covered that. Although, ANSWER should have kept the schedule.

Please remember that this was a hugely successful event. Whatever the C-Span effect was, please remember that the level of hostility being shown in some of these posts does not in anyway reflect those of us that participated. We saw the real event not, whatever C-SPAN made you watch.

I couldn't care one way or the other about ANSWER. I was there to protest the war and I did. I was joined by throngs of others hitting the streets for freedom.

Please do not let this ANSWER bashing get out of control and become counter-productive.

I would recommend that you use some of that anger and write a letter to C-SPAN about how badly they distorted the event by refusing to leave the speeches to check out the march. Maybe they will do a better job covering it next time.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
43. It was fucking awesome


Those who were disappointed by the TV coverage should, I think, fail in the future to be surprised when television lets them down.
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #43
62. Television was there
apparently they found ANSWER's screaming speakers more interesting, than the awesome march.

Maybe, since C-Span was there, had they not had so many communist supporters, poets, and whatever else those people were screaming about to keep their cameras on for three hours, they might have managed a few shots of the actual march and the normal people who were there.

There were people too old and frail to be able to travel there, and others with sick relatives to care for, babies, and many themselves unable for various reasons, in our case, a dying friend, who would have liked to see the march, which we knew would be awesome. It certainly would have been really inspiring for those who are frail and elderly, but who are so concerned for their country.

Sorry you can't relate to that ~ and I'm really glad that at least YOU had a great time, and sorry you feel that nothing can be done about it. I disagree, though. I hope it's okay to disagree, lately it seems that unless you agree blindly, that something you wouldn't know even happened was awesome, you have to be some kind of subversive or freeper troll.

Freepers btw, love the ANSWER speakers, and never did see the hundreds of thousands of marchers, which is why Rush was able to tell only '30 people were there'.
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
44. I thought the entire weekend was great.
It was nice to meet people from all over the country who came together to end this illegal war and demand our troops come home now. It's a shame the way CSPAN covered this huge event by focusing on a very small part of a huge picture. United for Peace and Justice along with other veteran groups worked hard to organize this major event.

GreenFestival also had speakers both Saturday and Sunday at the Convention Center along with vendors promoting environmental friendly products. I heard Amy Goodman and Greg Palast speak on Sunday afternoon - the perfect ending to the weekend.

CodePink, DemocracyNow, AirAmerica, DemocracyNow and Dennis Kucinich were just a few represented at the GreenFestival, unfortunately, I missed hearing Kucinich speak.

I know many people are upset over certain aspects of the rally (myself included) but it's important not to lose sight of all of the positive that occurred - kindred spirits of all ages traveled long distances to come together and oppose this administration and the war in Iraq.

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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
46. Thank you for marching. Those of us who couldn't go appreciate it. But..
What we "armchair quarterbacks" saw was a different game than the one we had been told we would see. How can we not help but feel cheated and pissed off because of it?

Instead of seeing the game we wanted to see, we were force fed a completely different game plan from ANSWER. We missed the drama and excitement of the game as did the rest of the country who really needed to see that game far more than most of us around here did.

The whole point of a Peace March is not for a personal thrill but for public AWARENESS that leads enlightenment and to change.

But how can enlightenment and change happen if the lights during the game are turned off?

:shrug:

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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. You Should Be Complaining To C-SPAN...
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Wouldn't that be the same as talking to a wall?
Look, I don't want to fight with you, because I DO appreciate all you and others have done on behalf of us all.

However, I would also appreciate a reply that addresses just how the Peace March was to make a difference and have an impact if no one but those involved witnessed it?

:shrug:


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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. Your Problem Is That Is A Bogus Premise.
Maybe it did not get the coverage you would have liked. But, it was reported in many places and many, many people heard about the hundreds of thousands. Clearly many folks followed what C-SPAN aired even if their coverage was far from ideal. Many other networks gave it some time as well.

Even if that were not the case, the politicians are damn well aware of the growing anti-war sentiment. The more of us that show up on their doorstep, the harder it is to ignore us.

Your premise that somehow no one in the country was aware of the event is just plain wrong. We had an impact and will continue to do so. Especially as the politicians start to worry about 2006 blow-back. They are listening even if no one else is.

Why do you assume that talking to C-SPAN would be useless. Maybe they are interested in hearing from their viewers. Before you dismiss it out of hand, how about you give it a try. It could not be any less effective at creating change than posting your complaints about the coverage here.

In short, you are far too pessimistic and defeatist on this issue. Many, Many people and political leaders heard about the event. This assertion that the only people that heard about it we in it is simply untrue.

Besides, I can assure you that if everyone decided it would not be covered, would not matter and didn't even bother to try, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WOULD BE ACCOMPLISHED.


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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
47. Mr zola & I were there and IT WAS GREAT!
Hundreds of thousands of us gathered from all over the country to express our demand to end the war. We sat in the park across from the WH to rest for a while (we spent quite a while in front of the WH yelling at bush to get out of our house :)). We met a woman there who had borrowed money and a car to drive by herself from Detroit to march to end the war.

It was a wonderful to be a part of history and no amount of whining about little things will change that. We would/will do it again in a heartbeat! :)
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
53. No, the meaning wasn't lost at all
but the start was pretty slow, slower than I think it ought to have been.
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buzzsaw_23 Donating Member (631 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
57. Here's my thread and thoughts on the non-issue of ANSWER-phobia
I Was Sleepwalking Through the DC Rally-A.N.S.W.E.R. Me This

It seems to me that there has been a disproportionate amount of attention focused on ANSWERs' influence and import in the most recent march as well as ANSWERs' influence in the anti-war movement.

Contrary to my opening statement I pay very close attention to every detail and attempt to be attuned to the overall "presence" or "spirit", if you will, of the protest and protesters.

During the rally this weekend I had numerous conversations with total strangers who I would now consider brothers/sisters in arms. I met a military man who is virulently opposed to the Bush agenda. He has served two tours of duty in Iraq and was taking buckets of photographs of the rally to show to his mates as he is on a crusade to educate them about the anti-war movement. Never did ANSWER come up in our conversation.

I had myriad conversations with people at the various tents about their (inter-related) causes, the war(s) and everything else under the sun. Never did the topic of ANSWER arise.

I had numerous discussions during the rally itself about topics ranging from organic agriculture, community based currency, low-scale energy systems, the neo-con agenda, water wars, etc. Never did ANSWERs' problematic role in the organizing of the marches ever come up.

I rode there and back on a packed bus with a group of very intensely politically oriented folk. Discussions about every possible political topic seemed to arise but never the topic of ANSWER.

In fact it wasn't until I arrived on the DU discussion board that I learned that ANSWER was such a "force" and such a "problem".

Yes of course ANSWER played a vital role in organizing the rally and some of the speakers
spoke to their agenda. But ANSWERs' overall import is minor. What matters is the people who go to dissent; the people who go to commiserate; the people who go to be with others unified against this administration and their insane policies; the people who go to speak truth to power;the people who dare stand up to the machine; the people who go to feel the spirit of a shared humanity; the people who go to gain ideas and momentum to carry back home.

I've been to all the major rallies and numerous smaller ones since this latest version of the "War on Iraq". This one was qualitatively different. ANSWER was a mere blip in the proceedings. It was the massive and multi-faceted group of outraged, hopeful, concerned, humorous and intense people who held the day.

See you at the next anti-war rally, sadly we'll probably have more, no matter what acronym organizes the demonstration.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

My brother and I. I'm on the left as always.


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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
58. I went. Had a blast.
I too came home all juiced up only to come on the boards to find negative comments about the rally. It pissed me off too, then I talked to my mom on the phone. She told me she watched the rally on Cspan and was very confused and upset. I had to tell her what actually happened...the rally and the march were two different events and ANSWER had nothing to do with my reason for being there. I'm glad mom had my perspective and experience to draw from. I can't imagine folks who didn't have friends/family who were actually at the march to explain to them what really went on--I can't imagine what they think. I guess my feeling now is frustration. ANSWER can scream and holler all they want, I just don't want it broadcast on the tee-vee for Ma and Pa Kettle at home to misinterpret.
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Mutley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
59. I don't agree with many of ANSWER's politics,
Edited on Thu Sep-29-05 09:25 AM by mutley_r_us
and I was disappointed that the speakers were mostly ANSWER people, but the march itself seemed, to me, to be focused on the message it was supposed to be: Getting out of Iraq. I didn't have a problem with the march itself at all. I will attend the next rally; ANSWER or no ANSWER.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
64. I think it comes down to a POV created by TV or by actually being there
Those who saw the demonstration on TV, by and large, seem to think it was counterproductive.

Most of us who were in the streets seem to agree that it was a huge success.

To me, this illustrates how powerful television is in manufacturing its own kind of reality apart from actual experiential reality.

Those of us in the streets stood among the huge diversity of Americans around us, and saw the decency and "averageness" of those around us, and felt firsthand the unitary energy emerging from that broad plurality.

I haven't seen the CSPAN coverage, but it sounds like it featured a lot of the usual ANSWER suspects and themes. Frankly, I didn't hear any of this. I heard speakers right up to Ramsey Clark (the group I was with decided to get out in the street, where thousands were already gathering). Up until that point, I thought Cindy Sheehan, Jesse Jackson, and others did a pretty good job of staying focused and did what they're supposed to do: rally the crowd (although they all fell far short of the highwater mark established by MLK's "I have a dream" speech).

So I can't comment on the speakers after Clark. I was out among the thousands of people who weren't interested in what they had to say and were frustrated that we were all unable to march at the designated time (12:30).

The reality created by TV is important in shaping perception and I think UFPJ and others need to do their own demonstrations without ANSWER in the future with an eye toward shaping an image that captures the reality experienced by the majority of those of us out in the streets.

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