How much impact do protests really have anyway?

[begin_within]

Especially when they get only 15 seconds on the nightly TV news.

[Patchuli]

1. It's the only way

to change anything. We all need to get out and let our voices be heard!!!! We got the chimpie running...

[Seansky]

2. I lived in a country were it was the only alternative to get gov. change

but it took over two years of protests until practically the entire country turned to the streets on a daily basis, closing everything down. This is extremelly common on third world countries.

[crispini]

4. Well, and I'm beginning to think we're a third world country now.

At least based on our response to Katrina. So let's pick up the pace.

[MisterP]

6. which country?

[Seansky]

21. Panama

and in other countries, it's worst than in Pma.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Correct and even in the halcyon and idealized days

of Nam, it took years and bringing the capital to a stop every week, for the press to notice... yes they had photos of them in the papers as early as '67, but they did "not" made a tinkers damn of a difference until 72 when they were finally on the evening news.

Of course there is that little tidbit called the Pentagon Papers

No things are not that different here than they are in the Third World... it is just that we believe we are exceptional

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Potentially enormous. They definitely affected the Vietnam war.

Here's an excellent chronology of the Vietnam protests in Washington.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/2000/vietnam092799.htm

[ima_sinnic]

13. great article! and I was there for the levitation of the Pentagon,

AND for "shutting down the government" in 71 (escaped getting arrested, though!), and for some in between.

note at the very end of the article: "I don't think most people, myself included, thought (the demonstrations were) more than an existential gesture at the time," said Raskin. "But after we read the Pentagon Papers, it turned out the marches were very, very important in changing the direction of the war."

[Webster Green]

17. I was there too!

The Fugs were playing near the Pentagon as tear gas filled the air... lots of tear gas. I got arrested and hauled off to the federal lockup in Lorton, Va.

It was great!

[ima_sinnic]

20. oh, man, I used to see Ed Sanders all the time in the Lower East

Side! Tuli Kupferberg sometimes, too! I loved the Fugs!

And I remember that night at the Pentagon, which was lit up red from bonfires, I was back a little ways, seeing the MPs clubbing the people who were closest with rifle butts. It looked very violent and scarey.

[Matilda]

23. Were you? How fantastic!

I can remember that - it was wonderful.

The big difference though between now and then is that the media
at least reported the facts back then, so we all knew what was
happening and could think about it.

[Olney Blue]

5. Good question. But for me, doing it on Saturday, for the first time,

it had a HUGE impact.

If others involved had the same feeling I did, I think the impact might be the ripple effect at the local level. Knowing that tens of thousands feel the same way as I do, gives me strength to do more.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. protests disturb the norm

Protests are out of control and as such they represent a great danger to the established order. They never know how their minions will react, they never know when that Ukranian moment will arrive, when the separation between marchers and guards disappears, when their power melts away like a sand castle wall at high tide.

On the flip side - each demonstration by itself, except perhaps the next one, means very little.

[JimmyJazz]

8. Best. Screen name. Evah.

:)

[DanCa]

9. Remember protest also build our morale

Anytime I see a group of lefties regardless of the time frame or size of the group I feel better about our current situation. Of course for an effective protest I say we start picking better targets like sean hannity, and the bishops council.

[tuvor]

10. What alternatives can you offer? n/t

[madeline_con]

11. Here you are, on the internet, asking....

a question that I feel is moot, given everyone's access to news other than the 15 seconds on the tube.

Everyone except those living in caves knows about it.

There were protest all over the country, and in the U.K.

(no condescension to cavemen intended) :hi:

[TrueAmerican]

12. Not much

IMO

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. Sorry, you're wrong.

The protests of the '60's antiwar movement had a huge effect on the politics of the Vietnam war -- the Pentagon Papers proved that.

[TrueAmerican]

19. Last I checked

It's 2005, not 1969. The world is different now.

[G_j]

27. I'll dedicate this to you

"While one who sings with his tongue on fire gargles in the rat race choir,
bent out of shape from society's pliers, cares not to come up any higher
but rather get you down in the hole that he's in.

But I mean no harm nor put fault on anyone that lives in a vault.
But it's alright, Ma, if I can't please him."

BD

[RagingInMiami]

15. And you call yourself a Raiders fan?

With that attitude, you're more like a Denver Bronco fan.

[renabear]

16. Always have some impact

My first protest was the massive march for extending the ERA in 78. Though the bill did not pass, I believe we made a difference and brought the issue out of the halls of congress and into people's living room for discussion and ultimately helped bring about equal opportunities for women. Sometimes the impact of even the most well meaning and important protests can have some negative aspects--for all the positive messages for peace and bringing the troops home on Saturday, I was saddened to see some people go off message. As a Jew, I was discomfited by the Intifada chants and the tone behind the Death to Israel crowd. I know that in a free society, you cannot censor other's points of view. But--I worry how it may have skewed the message in the eyes of the undecided people out there watching. I am new, and mean no offense, but this is how I see it.

[Alamom]

18. Why would we need the First Ammendment?

If there is no need and protest does not produce results, why do we have it as a Constitutional Right?


2 lives made (more) miserable by "Protests"

You would need to read a a great deal in several books and articles to find just how much Protests bothered these presidents.

Have no doubt....... the protests did impact their lives and terms.


Against his wishes, Johnson's presidency was soon dominated by the Vietnam War. As more and more American soldiers and civilians were killed in Vietnam, Johnson's popularity declined, particularly in the face of student protests. During these protests students would often chant the line, "Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids have you killed today?" In what was termed an October surprise, Johnson announced to the nation on March 31, 1968 that he ordered a complete cessation of "all air, naval, and artillery bombardment of North Vietnam" effective November 1 citing progress with the Paris peace talks. And at the end of his speech he shocked the country by telling them he would not run for re-election, by saying: "I shall not seek, and I will not accept the nomination of my party for another term as your president."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_Johnson


The Nixon administration went to court to block the 1,200 veterans from camping out on the Mall during their protest, but Kerry and his group stayed put. The reaction from Nixon’s inner circle was real contempt for the veterans. In private conversations inside the White House, Nixon called them “horrible” and “bastards,” H.R. "Bob" Haldeman described the veterans as “ratty-looking,” and Henry Kissinger dismissed them as “inarticulate.”

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4534274/

[OneBlueSky]

22. one of the things demonstrations accomplish is . . .

the bringing together of like minded people to interact with one another face to face rather than only over the net . . . actually seeing and meeting others who think like you do reinvigorates you and helps keep you going during those times when things seem most desperate and words most futile . . .

[babyk]

25. zero

anyone that thinks protests have an effect does not understand fascism.

I view protests as an expression of free speech, not a mechanism for change.

[Graf Orlok]

26. They have a lot of impact.

Especially during the Vietnam War. That's one of the main things we learned about in history class about Vietnam were the protesters.

[Laughing Mirror]

28. "Why do we march?"

Because marching is how women got the right to vote.

Why do we march? Because marching is how Blacks and Latinos got the right to vote.

Why do we march? It took us from the back of the bus to the front of government.

Why do we march? It took Lyndon Johnson out of Vietnam and sent him back to Texas, where we’re going to send George Bush.

If we had not marched, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice would have had to sit in a segregated motel in Washington. Don’t tell us how proud you are of them. They are a result of marching. They’re not the result of no Texas oil deal.

So as we prepare now . . .

Mr. Bush: You said that you were concerned about your father and his legacy. Well we’re concerned about our fathers too. And we’re concerned about our mothers too. So when you see us marching, we know you’re George W’s son, but look outside Mr. President. These are Martin Luther King’s children. These are Allard Lowenstein’s children. These are Benjamin Spock’s children. We are the brothers and sisters of Paul Wellstone. We got family too!

We’re gonna march! We’re gonna march!

Al Sharpton, speaking at war protest march on the Mall
Washington, DC, October 26, 2002

[theHandpuppet]

36. I must respectfully disagree

You wrote:

Because marching is how women got the right to vote.

Why do we march? Because marching is how Blacks and Latinos got the right to vote.

Why do we march? It took us from the back of the bus to the front of government.

Marching may have brought the issues to the forefront, it may have brought like-minded peoples together and inspired them to speak out, but what tilted the balance in each of these cases were the acts of civil disobedience.

We're not there yet. Cindy Sheehan and the 370 who were arrested along with her may mark the watershed moment for today's movement, but until there are thousands waiting in line to take their place, who are willing to risk much in the same way that MLK, Rosa Parks, Alice Paul and so many others did before us, then weekend marches will gain us little. It took marches like the one from Selma to Montgomery, it took sitting at an integrated lunch counter knowing you would be arrested, it took a refusal to sit at the back of the bus, it took chaining yourself to the gates of the White House, and perhaps it took the mother of a fallen son who camped outside the estate of a corrupt and ignorant bully and refused to leave.

Weekend protests and marches do serve their purposes and perhaps they provide the impetus for acts of rebellion and civil disobedience. But real change is never neat and tidy, nor safe nor convenient. Cindy Sheehan, by her acts of civil disobedience, may just be the Alice Paul, the MLK, the Rosa Parks of our generation. Only time -- and how many are willing to follow her example -- will tell.

[sandnsea]

29. Depends on who is protesting

I think when protests include broad cross-sections of the country, people who hadn't participated previously, then they have affect. In Vietnam, when moms and vets joined in, it got attention. But now, it's like it's still the moms and vets, so maybe when more of the college kids get consistently active, it'll make the difference. Protests have to be sustained and accompanied by legislative visibility and media message. That's the way the spotted owl and dolphins went anyway, it wasn't protests alone.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. The kids will not join until it is personal (draft)

that is why I fear one will be needed.....

On the plus side I can help my freeper neighbor pack for boot camp... and hell I wish I could go push his sorry ass.

[sandnsea]

30. Double Post

[Peter Frank]

32. a Government of The People, For The People and By The people...

...should never be embarassed to hear from The People it is supposed to represent.

Any American government that is embarassed by dissent has no business being in power. Dissent is what founded our very nation. Only the weak minded consider dissent a flaw (however it is expressed).

[Lochloosa]

33. It stopped one war....enough said

[neweurope]

34. I shudder to think what they'll do to all of us if we ever stop protesting

---------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Oh I stoped being afraid years ago

I expect that knock in the middle of the night any day... if they scare us they win... but yes if we stop, it will only make them accelerate their little project

[NuttyFluffers]

37. they used to do more, but i think civil disobedience does more.

getting abused glaringly exposes the illegitimate nature of authority of a brutal oppressor. that in turn makes some groups of people frown and avoid doing business and diplomacy with said abuser.

i think civil disobedience, huge national strikes, and endless small and targeted protests to harass more malleable factions, all help build to something.

like, right now, i believe small targeted weekly protests should be done to harass local news stations at their place of work and wherever they go to cover the news. wear t-shirt bolding news lost to the memory-hole and constantly blame the media, specifically, down to your own local station. relentlessly. record them ignoring you and keep throwing it up on the web. send these links to friends. keep it up. rape their reputation. see a media van or a recording taking place and shout, "fuck the media! fuck channel 7! what about treasongate?! what about katrinagate?!" each time. endlessly. mercilessly.

but to be really honest the only thing that really worries fascist people in power about protests is the eternal threat that all of society could riot and destroy everything. it's only with the reality that they will no longer be comfortable, and will have their resources drained in trying to hold everything together will they have to deal with you. peace is nice to express yourself, threats of discomfort, problems, and resource drain are better for getting bastards to the negotiating table.