Well things don't look good

[jiacinto]

And I wonder why we keep losing. I really do. I hope that things turn aroudn but it seems like it's all over.

Can't we win an election just once to have bragging rights?

[goobergunch]

1. I don't trust exit polls

and I don't trust Drudge. So I still hold out (a little) hope.

And there's always next year's CA-9 race....

[Cush]

2. think the press is bad now?

I don't want to even think about 2004. They will do their best to help Bush

They should have run someone who wasn't associated with Davis. Its the stupid leadership.

Yeah, I know I'm being pessimistic, but I'm just getting that feeling again.

I'm sure I'll get over it, I did after the 2002 midterms....maybe a short break is in order

[Democat]

7. The press decides who is "associated", not us

The entire media promoted Arnold and bashed Cruz and Davis.

We don't have a lot of control at this point because we don't have any influence in the media.

It's time for Democrats to step back and look at the real problem. The real problem is the media.

Unless we get our own version of Fox, and other influence in the media, we are going to keep losing.

[Cush]

19. Exactly

[DemCam]

47. Ain't a doubt in my mind....

THE MEDIA SUCKS.

Ihatethosesobsandthepowertheyhavetobabblebabblebabble.

C'mon, Al...buy that cable! Quick!

[Bandit]

3. It isn't over yet

But we do live in strange times.

[DemNoir]

68. I wish they were only strange

But it appears they are dangerous

[ulysses]

4. I assume you mean California

Maybe the way to have things turn around is to turn them around, not wait for someone to do it for us.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

17. Thank you

for saying something constructive! If this ends up a defeat for us, we have to use our anger to make some real changes.

Maybe this will be the huge wake-up call we needed -- we have a long way to go and we need to get off our asses and start taking steps to get there.

(...with a nod to those of you who have long known this and have been working hard all along.)

Either way it falls, let Wednesday be the first day of the next phase of the fight.

[kstewart33]

5. Are you sure that Arnold winning is a bad thing?

He may be a total fiasco. He has a list of crises to solve and a Democratic legislature that will be in no mood to cooperate because they do not have to. Expect that more 'groping' allegations to emerge.

The New York Times ran an article a day or two ago on the Bushies beginning to think that Arnold as governor may hurt more than help.

It should be an entertaining circus. And they won't have Gray Davis to kick around anymore.

[Kitsune]

29. You're probably right, except...

..that if the Dems don't bend over, grab their ankles, and brace themselves, the Republicans will scream "OMG WTF PARFTIZAN DEMZZZzzz!1!!!!!!!!11one" and the media will lick it up like ice cream.

I just pray that something like 50 women file suit against that creep. Whether or not he 'wins' this farce of an election.

[jeter]

54. I agree kstewart33

Davis was a loser anyway.

[LeahMira]

56. Even if...

Arnold is a monumental failure, the Democratic legislature will be blamed for opposing him.

People believe that all Democrats want to do is raise their taxes for whatever reason, usually to fund social welfare programs. Until Democrats can shed the "tax and spend" impression that people have, people will vote Republican.

Now, in fact, what was that $87 billion that Congress is being asked to approve for Iraq? Is that coming out of thin air? Ah, but according to Republicans, that is to keep the U.S. free and to rid the world of dictators.

o, IMO, Democrats somehow have to convince people that money given to social welfare really works to everyone's advantage, the people are going to keep on doing what they always do... act greedy.

[diplomats]

75. kstewart33, do you a link to that N.Y. Times article?

I missed that.

[jenk]

6. we had 92 and 96, and Davis did win California fair and square

before this well financed GOP dirty trick recall kicked in

[Forkboy]

8. I wonder why we keep losing too

[polmaven]

12. It's called

rigging the machines....!

[Forkboy]

25. I think that'sa strong possibility

Carlos has said it's just in the minds of conspiracy theorists.

[Athletic Grrl]

72. My liberal county is Diebold.

The last election went smoothly. Our county posted the highest percentage for Dems in the state and was overwhelmingly for Barbara Lee (around 75%).

I'd hate to live in a split district, but they aren't fooling with them in mine.

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. Do we keep losing?

Seems Davis won his last election and Gore won. Do we keep losing or do the repukes just keep stealing elections, changing the rules to suit them, in the middle of the game, pull every dirty trick in their slimy playbook to "win". And let us not forget the Media's role in helping us "lose" and the repukes "win".

[E Pluribus Unum]

82. The LA times did every thing in

their power to keep Davis as Gov. The people
just did not want it.

[AntiLempa]

89. Your post scares me

The LA Times should not be doing "everything in their power to keep Davis as Governor." That's no different than Sean Hannity doing everything in his power to get Arnold elected.

Newspapers should report the news, not politicize it. By your post, I would assume that you don't mind the Washington Times?

[E Pluribus Unum]

90. I Agree with you. The media should only

report the facts. But most have a major bias
one way or the other.

[AntiCoup2K4]

43. Two Words

Terry McAullffe.

If we lose California, he deserves blame more than anyone other than Pete Wilson and Ken Lay.

[Terwilliger]

9. He wonders why they keep losing???? I THOUGHT IT WAS THE LEFT!!

I guess jiacinto has no idea what keeps voters from pulling the swict for the Dem...BUT LET'S MAKE SURE WE BLAME NADER AND THE GREENS!

[Democat]

14. This election, like 2000, has more to do with the media than Nader

In this case the Greens don't seem to have made a big difference, but that's not to say they didn't try.

[Terwilliger]

24. and now, Democat, you're already blaming other people for Dem losses

like you folks ALWAYS do

[_NorCal_D_]

34. By all logic

Nader did cost Gore certain states (Florida).

Indeed, Nader is definitely at least partly to blame.

[Terwilliger]

42. definitely?

Here is Nader hater EXTREME, Mr. Al From...

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?cp=3&kaid=86&subid=84&c...

The assertion that Nader's marginal vote hurt Gore is not borne out by polling data.

Is there anything left of your argument?

Once again, the very few votes that Ralph Nader MIGHT have pulled away from the end results were FAR exceeded by the inability of the Democrats to create a positive, popular message.

5,000,001 to 5,000,000 is NOT a victory...it's a push.

[Democat]

36. You don't think the media had anything to do with Arnold winning?

Do you follow the media?

The entire left is partially to blame for the extreme right wing media bias because they have not gotten off their asses sooner and set up their own networks. Other than that, what the hell are those on the left supposed to do when every major newspaper, radio station, and TV network is promoting Arnold and bashing the Democratic candidates relentlessly?

If you don't think the media had anything to do with Arnold's support, or you don't think Nader hurt Gore in 2000, what more is there to say?

[Terwilliger]

46. I think you blame the media because the positives of Democrats...

are wanting

Cat, I've SEEN the absolute bias towards Schwarzy all over California. Fact is, it wouldn't have happened at all had Davis not been such an irredeemable schlub.

Nader hurt Gore in 2000 ONLY because Gore had nothing to counter any of what Ralph said.

[_NorCal_D_]

57. Prove to me that

Davis is an 'irredeemable schlub' besides his steadfast opposition to Enron during the energy crisis.

He has done great things for this state.

[Terwilliger]

60. proof or not, his approval was at 22%

people don't like him, REALLY don't like him, REALLY REALLY don't like him

hell, there are BLACK folk in California voting against Davis

My "proof" is not solid (check nothingshocksmeanymore's thread) but that doesn't alter what the state thinks of Gray Davis.

[Nederland]

67. Amazingly enough...

I agree ith everything you've said on this thread. The Democrats need to get a message that resonates with the American people. Now I'm sure that you and I disagree strongly on what that message should be, but at least we don't have our heads in the sand about what the problem is...

[burythehatchet]

78. Thanks

well said

[quaker bill]

83. I noted no mention of Greens here

until you brought it up.

Still working on your demons? I can't help you there.

All this Ralph cost Al the election BS aside....

I see no way that any of the 10 key values of the Green Party were advanced in even the most minor measure through the results of 2000.

To say the least, it is clear that sponsoring a third party candidate is a profoundly inefficient and ineffective way to promote the Green Party agenda.

I thought we wanted more people to see the sense in a more humane and appropriate scaled politics.

You suggest democrats learn from 2000? Have you offered similar advice to members of the Greens?

[DrGonzoLives]

87. Will you get off your fucking cross, Terwilliger?

The schtick is starting to get a little old. A few people howl against the liberal wing of the party, and you turn into the poor, persecuted minority. Give it a rest.

[bluestateguy]

10. Well I have proposed mandatory voting here before

but too many people here get the heebie jeebies at the idea.

There ought to be obligations with citizenship, and I'm not talking about plopping a flag on an SUV. Force 'em to vote, and if they don't it's a 100$ fine.

[slackmaster]

15. That would be about as popular as mandatory gun ownership

Or mandatory childbearing.

[Andy_Stephenson]

20. And Make election day a National holiday

Oh and Carlos

It's all about the irregularities.

May want to check here to see what kind of crap is being pulled!

[mlawson]

21. I suspect that many CA residents who have never voted before,

are voting for Ah-nuld, if they can figure out how to do it. Hopefully they will never be re-energized.

Mandtory voting would bring many more of them out, and many would vote for celebs, or on the basis of name recognition, which is EXACTLY the reason Arnold will win. What else has he going for him?

[Old and In the Way]

30. Funny story.

My local news station here in Maine reported that state election officials were getting calls from people wondering where they should be voting....how much you want to bet that 98% of them were Ahnuld voters who watch a little too much Fox?

[mlawson]

38. Yeah. Hopefully they didn't register, either.

I would think that many of them either didn't know that prior registration was necessary, or they assumed that they could do that at the polls. Others probably thought they could vote at ANY poll....

[leanings]

37. I'd say

a large part of the problem is that people don't educate themselves about the issues. They vote according to popular appeal, appearances and smooth sound bytes. Arnold may very well win this thing almost solely on the basis of celebrity already. Don't you think mandatory voting would worsen this trend? The presidency would be Ben Afleck's for the taking.

[DrGonzoLives]

88. How in hell

does mandatory voting help anything? Do you think more people will suddenly say "Wow, the Democrats are great! I should vote for them!"?

Or will more people just vote for whoever they've heard of or whatever commercial they last heard before getting into the polling place?

[CityDem]

11. Message or Candidate

Are we losing because Davis and Cruz were bad candidates or was their message off target? In a heavily democratic state we should not be losing to some hack actor. I hope Dean will do better job of getting the democratic message out. Otherwise, we will get beat again in 2004.

[Democat]

23. The media refused to report any Democratic message!

It was all Arnold praise, all Davis and Cruz bashing all the time.

The only time they weren't bashing Democrats was when they were ignoring them.

If we made a mistake it was not going on the attack against Arnold from day one.

Democrats cannot rely on the media to do our dirty work for us like Republicans can. If Davis had slammed Arnold from the start about his groping, illegal contributions, business failures, etc., then we might have had a better chance. Instead, Arnold went after Davis relentlessly and our side didn't respond until it was too late.

The media, along with a couple of right wing millionaires, have overthrown the government of California.

[E Pluribus Unum]

85. You and I must be living in a different world Democrat.

The LA times pulled out all the stops for Davis.
I live in AL and even here the front page headlines of our newspaper
this week was about Arnolds sorted past.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shance]

16. Gosh why are you always so happy about these things Jiacinto?

I wonder......

[noiretextatique]

55. it's too early to be claiming victory for ahhnold...that's for sure.

and it is indeed puzzling why he's started TWO threads that do just that. it does make you wonder...

[Heddi]

70. Maybe misery loves company?

who knows.

Oh wait---I know someone who knows (and is one of the TWO people in the universe who can claim that they know what people are thinking at any given point in time :snicker: ).....




CALL MEH NOW, BEBBIES

[FredScuttle]

18. NOTHING IS DECIDED!!!

Ugh...if I have to say this one more time....


Thanks for your "concern" but you can be assured that there will be no official call on the governor's race for at least a week....still all those pesky 2 million absentee ballots to count, you know.

Why don't you save the "pity us" thread for when Lieberman drops out, eh?

[jiacinto]

22. Why would I be unahppy if Lieberman drops out?

I am not voting for him.

[slor]

27. Do not start the pity party yet...

POSITIVE VIBES!!! This is NOT over yet!

[_NorCal_D_]

28. I haven't voted yet.

As well as several people I know who will vote no on the recall.

It's ridiculous to throw in the towel before most people have even left work.

[goobergunch]

33. Yeah...it's only 4:51 PDT (n/t)

[kutastha]

31. ...

Is there a link out there that says things don't look good and we're losing?

[goobergunch]

32. LBN-Drudge's exit polling (n/t)

[kutastha]

35. ah

Thanks. Didn't see it earlier. But it's Drudge and he's the only one with info? Hm....

[Champion Jack]

41. Yeah...(snicker) and we KNOW how reliable drudge is

[goobergunch]

48. Like I said in post #1... (n/t)

[LibDemAlways]

51. Legitimate exit polls

are never released until after the polls close. Who the hell is behind this? Let me guess.

[Starpass]

39. jiacinto brings up something important

I've said this many times. I don't give a flying fuck which "way" CA goes in '04...probably Dem but who knows. I'm saying that the message to the country on top of the total, total, total, awful defeat we got in '02 when so many here were so cock sure we would beat them devils into the ground, is that if CA falls (and it will tonight) that we are STILL a bunch of losers with a bunch of no-name (and the people can't name them) zero candidates who have LOSER written all over them. This was our chance to say "we have arrived and '04 will be different". Because of a bunch of fucking DEMS in CA we are blowing '04. and YES it's the Dems. Just saw the figures that something like 45% of CA are registered Dems and like 31% are repukes. This would not take place if the Dems voted as Dems.....and this is just a foretaste of the feast to come.

[Democat]

49. Do you think we should run celebrities?

What candidate, name one, that could have beat Arnold with the incredible media bias we saw in California.

[Speed8098]

86. Martin Sheen

Marty would've taken the election hands down.

[noiretextatique]

40. THE POLLS ARE STILL OPEN IN CALIFORNIA! nt

[_NorCal_D_]

45. Thank you

for that remark.

Apparently some individuals think it's already over and done with.

[noiretextatique]

53. it's hardly over yet, since the polls are still OPEN HERE

and this should be one of the heaviest voting times, since a lot of people will be voting after work.

[_NorCal_D_]

59. You bet.

I'll be leaving to vote within the hour.

[Cat Atomic]

44. "Can't we win an election just once to have bragging rights?"

Of course we can. We won the California Governor's race, and we won the last Presidential election, too.

[Zynx]

50. We did win in Louisiana last year.

That was worth bragging rights. However, I must concede that I do find the results of the last three years for us to be a little worrying. However, the recall is not indicative of anything.

[ComerPerro]

52. Well, then can't

we for once win an election and serve a full term (they tried to remove Clinton).

Republicans don't respect the people. They lie to them to get their votes, and when they still can't win they do whatever they can to reject the will of the people.

[Andy_Stephenson]

62. Ann Richards of Texas was a win

If I remember correctly...Oh yes and I voted for her.

[Andy_Stephenson]

58. When do you start blaming

Naders Dick?

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noiretextatique]

66. a question i pose to you: for all the californians here, and elsewhere...

do you think virtually calling the race for ahhhnold, while the polls are still open HERE is...

1) wise
2) motivational
3) correct
4) none of the above

my vote is #4.

[Heddi]

71. oooh oooh I know

I say number four. And this lady says that's correct as well : CALL MEH NOW, BEBBIES....

[noiretextatique]

76. you mean! is he consulting 'our little friend?'

LMAO hey there Heddi you got THAT right...

[Heddi]

77. well must be

I mean, how else can one predict not only things that haven't happened yet, but to say with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY again and again what people are thinking, were thinking, and will think

:wave: hi yourself!!! Hope you're doing well these-days. Once I figure out how to preserve my blackberry jelly, I'll be sure to send some your way!!!

[noiretextatique]

80. i am loathe to kick this thread, but

i will do it for homemade blackberry jam...yum! mz cleo is one with ome folks tonight, but i still have faith! oh..."wave" is "colon hi colon"...that's how you get this (no spaces, of course)

[bluedog]

61. qhats with Democrats?

The way I understand it some of these people voting for arnie are Democrats...they also signed the recall paper......I blame these people..who signed this shit to begin with....its not the parties fault....its these people in CA..who are star struck with the arnold movement....they also should be held accountible for the outcome of this.....
I never thoought I would see my party voters sign would to get involved in this mess and vote for the Rebiblican party guy...

[Must_B_Free]

64. Let's all be reasonable, Carlos

"And I wonder why we keep losing. I really do. I hope that things turn aroudn but it seems like it's all over.

Can't we win an election just once to have bragging rights? "

We don't have a popular agenda, Carlos. We are like a nice date that's afraid to get his face slapped, and never gets a kiss.

The repukes are like a jerk who goes and says something lewd to 10 girls, because he knows the 10th one will give him a ride.

[Dob Bole]

65. 3 Gubernatorial elections this year

All in the South: Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi. And it looks like we have a pretty good chance at winning all 3.

[NashVegas]

69. Because EXISTING DEM POLITICAL STRUCTURE IS LAME

I think Cali Dems were caught sleeping and dazed. First there was the 'absolutely no Dems' on the ballot, then 'no to recall yes to Bustemante.'

They allowed themselves to be trapped into a defensive game - BIG big mistake. They put so much energy into getting the recall delayed that they didn't devote enough resources to fighting at the ballot level.

Why did they wait for LA Times to publish the harrassment stories?

Why did they not pounce on the Ken Lay/Karl Rove connection?

Why did they not make more of the RW power grabbing (Texas, Colorado)?

California may very well deserve Arnold; and Terry McAuliffe needs to be canned.

[Democat]

79. Feinstein said Davis had to run a "positive" campaign

So Arnold went on the offensive right away, with no fear of being attacked, and he was very effective at putting Democrats on the defensive and undermining Davis.

By the time Davis abandoned the Feinstein strategy and started fighting, very late in the race, it was way too late.

Wimpy Democrats like Feinstein and her "don't go negative" bullshit are part of the reason we are in this mess.

The media lies and says that voters don't like negative campaigns, but Republicans run the dirtiest most negative campaigns anyone has ever seen, and they win.

Being nice in politics is for losers!

[teryang]

73. The aggregation of corporate capital resources

...backing Ahnold is huge. He has the support of the energy industry and the mainstream media. The critics such as the LA Times won't even breach the real subject at hand, corporate fraud, accountability for corporate fraud, and state regulation of utilities. They prefer to dwell on the surrogate subject of sexual assaults.

Ahnold had a hundred million plus "unbranded" advertising before he even announced his candidacy. His face was everywhere. He was the only person in the last several weeks seen more on television than the idiot king. The support he is getting is being compared to Jesse Ventura support, this is the support of the regressed mind, befuddled by years of media obfuscation of the corporate rape of our republic and our democratic way of life.

They know intuitively that something is wrong but they are incapable of figuring it out because the press is nothing but pro corporate looting of the sovereign republic. These brain washed individuals latch on to the media projections of political meaning like it was a lifeline. They are totally unconcious and have no idea what they are doing. The country is completely corrupted. The idea that this obtuse weight lifter worth hundreds of millions is the representative of the popular masses is at once true and absurd. He is there to save the looting energy corporations from the retribution and accountability of California law and its courts. This is how he will support the gullible and ignorant masses lulled into the comfortable cocoon of the mass minded.

"This psychic condition in the individual corresponds by and large to the hypertrophy and totalitarian pretensions of the idealized State." C.G. Jung

[haymaker]

74. Are you going by Drudge? Not smart.

It is too soon to tell. There aren't any scientific, comprehensive exit-polling groups out there. Besides, I haven't voted yet.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

81. NEWS FLASH!!! WE DID WIN ONCE AND WON EVERY FUCKING

STATEWIDE OFFICE!!!

Perhaps we can all hang crepe when the actual vote has been counted.

I am very glad I shut off my computer and did not check in till now. Otherwise, I believe I would have HUNG myself several hours ago.

It seems everyone here is aiding and abetting the news in manufacturing the result.

Suckers.

[loudsue]

84. YOU GUYS BLAME DEMOCRATS AND SUPPORT DLC??

Many of the posters on this thread are always railing against those of us who have looked into the DLC membership, financing, and have read the aims of the DLC from their own papers. Then you have the gall to whine on a thread about all the stuff the Dems are doing wrong???

DeNile is NOT just a river in Egypt!!! If you gave a FLIP about this country you'd get active on the Black Box Voting issue. A ZILLION experts, open files, investigations by active private citizens (Dem and repuke, alike!) is not enough to tell you that the voting machines, the repukes, the corporations, the media and the DLC are all in the same bed.

IT'S THE VOTING MACHINES

STUPID!!!!

How many more elections is it going to take before you guys get it???

This is going to keep happening!! THE BAD GUYS OWN AND PROGRAM THE VOTING MACHINES AND BUY THE SECRETARIES OF STATE!!!

It is the fault of the Dems associated w/ the DLC -- NOT "the Dems". I am a Dem, and many of us on this board have been carrying the Dem message. (As opposed to the DLC message.)

Get on board!!!!! Get active!!! Send copies of Black Box Voting to every elected official in your districts.

Give the voice, AND THE VOTE back to THE PEOPLE, and this whole mess will straighten out faster than you can hit "send".