I think that the point of this march is being hijacked by ANSWER'S

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

protest against Israel and the Palestinians. I am finding this upseting. I feel strongly about this issue but I thought that this was all about our illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

1. I always feel like that about ANSWER...

but thats their platform, and they will take every opportunity to talk about it, no matter what else is going on.

[mcg]

255. They were even discouraging people from starting to march.

They wanted us to stay put and listen to their speeches. One thing I noticed is that a proportionate number of the speakers were Muslims, and many of the speechs were focused against Israel.

I wasn't going there to attend an anti-Israel rally or to be converted to Islam.

There were also lots of Socialist this and Socialist that, which gets in the way of the message. I think some of these people are pretty naive in thinking that Socialism is the answer and that Capitalism in any form is no good. Things are not at all that simple. I'm for social programs, strong unions, etc. but that's different.

[Atman]

2. It always is, anytime ANSWER is involved

There were threads about this last night. ANSWER is great at organizing, but then they completely muddle the message.

[Pirate Smile]

49. When I flipped to C-span and it said "A.N.S.W.E.R. Rally" - my

heart sunk.

[Peace Patriot]

134. If you don't understand the connection between the invasion and occupation

of Iraq and the Israeli/Palestinian conflict then you don't understand much at all. I'm for listening to all viewpoints, especially from those who have been marginalized. We should not buy into the war profiteering corporate news monopolies' public relations paradigm which severely narrows the political spectrum and would like to see boutique marches sponsored by Starbucks where nothing uncomfortable is said, and prefers political conventions where all dissenters are caged far away from the powerful. This is a peoples' march. Let the unpowerful speak!

[Finder]

193. I agree 100% (nt)

[nodehopper]

206. is this about everyone having their say or trying to effect actual change?

Antiglobalization in all its incarnations marches are old news, and marches that give anti-Israel groups, ICP etc. equal time are not going to be taken seriously by people whose awareness about the war we are supposed to be raising this day.

That is always the problem with the ANSWER rallies, they never stay on point, and, really, are more about the protesters than about the issues. Fluffed-up "protester cred" egos and maChesmo.

[hippiepunk]

261. guh... I hate ANSWER

"

[rman]

267. You just insulted a majority of protesters

"I think that the point of this march is being hijacked by ANSWER'S protest against Israel and the Palestinians. I am finding this upseting. I feel strongly about this issue but I thought that this was all about our illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq."

"When the ANSWER guy was first speaking and mentioned Palestine I have the feeling that most of the crowd agreed with you. The response was less than enthusiastic." (this was also clearly visible on C-SPAN)

Palestine/Israel is just one of dozens of serious issues worth protesting for. Why not also include Birma, East Timor, Haiti, Tibet, WTO/IMF Free Trade Scams, etc etc etc etc.
Why not?
BECAUSE THAT IS NOT WHY PEOPLE WENT TO THE DEMONSTRATION

[Cassandra]

3. Answer drives me nuts when they do this.

I hope I don't hear even one Mumia reference.

[LosinIt]

4. Happens every time

now we'll hear about every issue under the sun. Johannesburg?? please...

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

5. When I saw that C-Span called this ANSWER's Anti-War Rally I had

a dark feeling that something like this would happen. I think that someone has to hijack it back from them!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. First Principles

I assume the folks who are attending this event put an end to the occupation of Iraq at the top of their agenda....To achieve this goal they want to enlist Middle America in this effort...


I'd like the opinions of other DUers....


Do they think the speakers and the tone is going to attract Middle America to their efforts...



I think the last protest march to be truly successful at stirring the conscience of Middle America was Dr, King's March On Washington... You had every day folks appealing to the basic dignity of average Americans...

[RevolutionStartsNow]

31. That's it...

Get the Gold Star moms up there, more Cindy Sheehan. Jesse Jackson was great too.

[despairing optimist]

234. Well, now that you mention Middle America, I'll put in my 2 cents

Scene: Yellow Line on Saturday morning and afternoon, to and from the airport. Families with young children on the trains. Antiwar protesters wearing t-shirts like Fuck Bush, Fuck the War, Fuck This, Fuck That.

Would you like to be the young parent who had to answer your kid's question, What is Fuck?

I don't care about the threads on DU. This is an adult board. But in public parents can't shield their young ones from vulgar language, and small kids count on adults to set up boundaries.

Again, I write four-letter words here and elsewhere with the best of them, but when people are out in public and want to win over undecided folks, you're already handicapping yourselves by coming off as vulgar and offensive. Okay, now, flame away and keep wondering why more of Middle America doesn't see itself in the antiwar movement.

Sure, some of MA does, but that part is trying hard not to see those t-shirts. I'm not saying antiwar people need to look and sound like Donny and Marie Osmond, but just use a little restraint under certain circumstances. College rallies? Sure, use any language you want, but on a Saturday afternoon in DC with lots of small kids, I don't think it's appropriate and I'm glad I didn't have any kids with me.

[mcg]

257. other problems...

There were women exposing themselves and holding signs 'War is Indecent'. I didn't mind seeing them and they did have some points, but strategically, not good. What was surreal was that there was a line of cops nearby. Guess we're not in the 50's anymore.

Also there were some people being a bit too artsy fartsy, I felt they were just showing off and were distracting from the message.

These protests need more focus.

[gordontron]

260. agreed

the one in down town Seattle that I went to really felt like it lacked focus, which answer was partially responsible for. I found my self silent for long sections of slogan chanting because they were completely unfocused on the task at hand. this movement really needs a good leading organization.

[madfloridian]

6. It happens every year.

Why do you think a lot of polticians are cautious about appearing at their rallies?

They are only a little bit anti-war. This happens every rally.

[cyberpj]

7. Unfortunately, this is what will make the mainstream media - nt.

[GrumpyGreg]

8. When the ANSWER guy was first speaking and mentioned

Palestine I have the feeling that most of the crowd agreed with you.

The response was less than enthusiastic.

This was a couple of hours ago.

[coffeenap]

9. Me too--I am SO pissed--this is how we fail to get our message

across. I am yelling--I am frustrated--this is about IRAQ and BUSH.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

13. And the more speakers the put up the more I'm getting pissed! nt

[yorgatron]

17. Matthew McConaughey did a skit on SNL about that

stay on MESSAGE people!

[Alizaryn]

10. Agreed

They should just ... begin to march.

[seabeyond]

11. you are right, and they pile it on at the end. tryin to make people

shout free free palestine. lol. i thought this was: get out of iraq

wow.

each speaker it is more so

you are right

[OzarkDem]

12. Why is ANSWER the only group

who can organize these marches?

[fasttense]

19. They are the ones with money. Oil money. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. You're Not Suggesting Their Provacateurs...

This is a Republican wet dream....

A bunch of poeople scaring the bejeesus out of middle America....

[rman]

266. Not so much Provacateurs as Gate Keepers

[CountAllVotes]

34. since when do you have to put dollar bills in the bucket?

I remember the marches in the 70s. Buckets went around yes. And if you had some money, even a dime was a donation. They are asking for $100 dollar bills!

This is supposed to be about U.S. OUT OF IRAQ, BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!

And note how they are telling people to contribute to ANSWER by plugging their website for donations in case you cannot be there. No $100 bills from me! NO!

[lakeguy]

14. i was just wathcing and the crowd was starting to get angry

don't understand why they can't just focus on the US getting out of Iraq. is it really that hard?

[Opusnone]

15. BIG TIME

I've been lost in anti-Israel rhetoric for the past 30 minutes.

[bluestateguy]

16. I don't like ANSWER

First of all it's one thing to oppose Israel's policies, which I often do, but ANSWER gives me the impression that they would not lose any sleep at all if Israel was completely wiped off of the map.

Secondly, the left has a tendency to go off message with these demonstrations, where an anti-war rally becomes a venue for people in a whole bunch of other movements to piggy back along.

[stevief]

225. ANSWER wouldn't care if Israel was wiped off the map

However, this rally isn't about Israel, Palestine or Mumia. It's about the war in Iraq.

The trouble with ANSWER's approach is they want too much. Like the rest of the far left, they want every little greivance to be corrected.

If you ask for the moon, you get cheese. sdf (stevie)

[mcg]

253. There was even a sign "All of Israel is an illegal occupation"

Really, some of these people do more harm than good.

I was pretty bewildered by the first part of the day, reading this thread, I'm starting to understand.

[mandyky]

18. I brought this up after one of the early protests of the Iraq War

This is why Middle America thinks peace protesters are "anti-American" and "unpatriotic". We need to stay on one issue as much as possible or we lose suport with Middlle America.

I was pretty much told since ANSWER does the organizing that I was wrong. shrug Maybe, maybe not - but many people who would listen to getting out of Iraq just don't wanna hear some of this.

[Rose Siding]

89. I remember being thrilled that ANYONE would have an anti-war rally, but

now that we're the *acknowledged* majority, it doesn't seem so necessary to include every single issue that may be deserving of attention in this sort of venue.

[MisterP]

227. they think that because Faux tells them all the time, ANSWER or no ANSWER

(would the latter option be QUESTION, then ?)

[Scout1071]

20. I'm absolutely in agreement. I'm starting to get pissed this is all about

Palestine.

Don't get me wrong, it needs to be in our dialogue, but I thought this day was about Iraq and George W Bush.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

22. I agree, this kind of sucks

The point of this march is END THE WAR IN IRAQ. Cindy was great, the Grannies were great, a few other speakers were great, but I am skipping through most of it. It's not that I don't support most of what the other speakers are saying (and I say most, not all, but that's true at any rally) -- but can't we just stay FOCUSED? This a huge opportunity to make a single statement, END THE WAR IN IRAQ.

[madfloridian]

23. That's why a lot of politicians won't appear at their rallies.

Everyone has been jumping all over our Democrats for not appearing there. We have turned off the tv on the rallies nearly every time when they get this way.

Looks like the anti-war main issue folks would know it by now.

[fujiyama]

265. Agree completely

It was ridiculous to watch people lashing out at Dean and other Dems for not appearing at the rally.

I have never trusted ANSWER. While what Dean is doing is not an exciting or sexy job, it has to be done and in the end I think what he is doing will likely have more of a positive impact than these ANSWER rallies.

[bucknaked]

24. Felt the same way here. Was like "oh no, here we go..."

eom

[Alizaryn]

25. Someone in the crowd needs to become

a leader, say follow me and begin to march. I am for for this demonstration with every ounce of my body and soul, BUT am about to turn it off. I can't see it reaching anyone tuning in making an attempt to make up their minds.

[cyberpj]

33. I see people walking away - if people tune in now, it looks bad. nt.

[Traveling_Home]

57. Doesn't just look bad

It is bad. A.n.s.w.e.r isn't. The 'other' folks were very glad to hear it would be televised. It hurts the cause. We all know it. We have to marginalize A.N.S.W.E.R. to get effective. Hopefully some of the media will 'clean' up the message some.

Contrast with the ADAPT protest in DC last week. (Much posted on DU last week - search it) Stay on topic, especially in Public and it's all public these days.

[etherealtruth]

27. Yep

[coffeenap]

28. If I hear one more poem--well, I already screamed. (apologies to

those who like poetry under all circumstances).

[coffeenap]

32. Iraq! Iraq! Impeach! Iraq! Iraq! I am begging--we are losing credibility

by the minute with each topic added to our message. Shit, shit, shit.
(sorry to resond to my own post--mistake)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

35. Yes, we are and I am going from pissed to horrified by this. nt

[RevolutionStartsNow]

40. LOL

I love poetry, but it doesn't work at a rally.

[Opusnone]

29. Free the Cuban five?

What the fuck is going on?

[lildreamer316]

30. I want to see the ACTUAL MARCH. WHO TH E HELL are the

Cuban five?

[derby378]

36. Free James Brown!!

Free Tommy Chong!!

Free Willy!!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

41. derby

[Alizaryn]

LOL

Unfortunately they are turning people off even though the "cause" may be great. Its unfair and it would be making me furious if I were there. You cannot FORCE FEED someone something, that's the government's job.

[Egalitariat]

37. I thought it was a "Free Mumia Abu Jamal" march****

nm

[Misskittycat]

38. We need to take the anti-war movement away from ANSWER. I can't

watch the rally for more than a few minutes; it's making me so upset.

I presume the local rally I'm attending won't be hijacked in that way.

[lildreamer316]

39. Screw it; I'm gonna follow it with Will's blog and the traffic cams.

[cyberpj]

42. I'm with you. STAY ON POINT. STAY ON POINT. STAY ON POINT.

[Opusnone]

50. I felt this way watching the Libertarian convention

on C-Span last year. I thought I'd hear intellectuals, rational thinkers, political debaters, and truth tellers, but instead it was an unorganized hodge podge of various speakers with different agendas who seemed as comfortable behind a microphone as a whore in church.
It was embarrassing, no, I was embarrassed for them.

[Mari333]

43. I cringe when I imagine my mom, a staunch republican,

who now detests Bush,as she watches this. If anything pushes her back to Bush, it will be some of the shrill , loud voices from ANSWER. This happened when I protested against the Vietnam war also..fringe groups hijacking the message. Oh well.

[LSK]

47. time for an email campaign to ANSWER

I am not liking this. I have heard Palestine more than Iraq talked about in the past hour.

Dammit. This is about Iraq.

[karynnj]

192. In the 60s and 70s, the extreme left wing was incapable

of understanding that their hardcore protesting scared America and was not effective. The Nixon tapes prove that they felt most of the protesters turned America off.

From the tapes, the only protest leader who scared them was Kerry, because he was a clean cut, articulate, well educated war hero. Kerry, at 27 had the wisdom to fight to keep the protest a non-violent protest of veterans, with no celebrities. The only issues were to end the war and take better care of the veterans who needed help. This focus made this a very successful protest and made it possible for Senators and Congressmen to join the protesters and to invite them to visit their offices. Watch "Going Upriver" and see the difference between that protest and today's. (Kerry's stance against the 70s far left wing led some of them to hate him (to this day) as much as Nixon did. But he turned more people against the war than they ever did.)

Cindy Sheehan would be well advised to consider who she associates with. She had credibility and moral standing, which ANSWER is willing to use. In doing so, they diminish her.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

44. It's the COVERAGE that's the problem

There are (by Will's account) tens of thousands of people on the streets of DC, marching, THAT's what they should be covering, not this "Cuban Five" stuff.

SHOW THE FREAKIN' PEOPLE!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

48. These are the speeches being held before the march officially starts.

That is why they are being covered.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

59. When does the march start?

I thought people were already marching in the streets, per Will's blog and the traffic cams.

[NoodleyAppendage]

62. And, they can't find speakers who can stay on point?? Come on...

The key is to limit the focus of any march from day one. All this "socialists/communists of the world unite" bullshit is only hurting the more important message about Iraq.

B

[Arugula Latte]

72. Welcome to DU, NoodleyAppendage!

Hope you like it here!

Ramen.

[NoodleyAppendage]

87. Thanks. It's nice to be had...

B

[nonconformist]

45. I agree, this is pissing me off! nt

[coffeenap]

46. Now, how many people throughout America and the world want

to join this movement? What the hell is the message we are sending? When will we ever learn????

[Alizaryn]

53. I am glad its not just me

feeling furious.

[Violet_Crumble]

256. You don't want to be part of the anti-war movement?

Uh, oh-kay. To be honest, as a non-American, I've been a bit disgusted by the carry-on in this thread. Thankfully from news reports, there were a whole lot more Americans who think getting out on the streets and adding their voices to the anti-war message is way more important than sitting round on the internet and bitching about there being other issues than just the war in Iraq being touted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Shame on the whole lot of you. I'm pretty sure it was ANSWER who organised the massive anti-war rally here prior to the invasion of Iraq, and there were speakers who talked about other causes, but the main focus of the rally was on Iraq. Should I have packed up and gone home in a huff when an indigenous speaker talked about land-rights?

Violet...

[rman]

270. Anti Iraq War movement, anti Bush movement

We all know that's what this is about, that's why people came to DC.
Shame on ANSWER for pushing topics that are not on the protesters agenda and turning people off.
What YOU do in response is YOUR concern.

[Violet_Crumble]

281. If you all know what it's about, what's with all the whining then?

Are you a mindreader or something? How do you know what people do or don't support?

Shame on those who don't seem to even realise that ANSWER organised this protest. Without them there would have been nothing, which I'm getting the impression some of the loudest anti-ANSWER types would have preferred. Anyone who was turned off is no better than the freepers as far as I'm concerned...

Violet...

[rman]

283. Like you don't know what the "whining" is about;

this entire threat is about that issue: the fact that ANSWER keeps pushing topics other then the issues for which people came to DC: troops out of Iraq, Bush out of the WH.

We know for sure all demonstrators support that. About all the other issues we don't know whether or not people support it. What we DO know is that people didn't come to DC for those other issues.

I can't imagine ANSWER would not be able to organize a demonstration on issues that all people support.

Hordes of people actually left the ANSWER 'lectures' and went on to circle the WH; went on to do what they had come to do.

[Violet_Crumble]

282. If you all know what it's about, what's with all the whining then?

Are you a mindreader or something? How do you know what people do or don't support?

Shame on those who don't seem to even realise that ANSWER organised this protest. Without them there would have been nothing, which I'm getting the impression some of the loudest anti-ANSWER types would have preferred. Anyone who was turned off is no better than the freepers as far as I'm concerned...

Violet...

[Rose Siding]

51. It sure doesn't resonate like Camp Casey

But the reaction of the crowd makes me believe they are anxious to get down to business.

You'd think that with the polls about the war and all the renewed attention of the last couple of months, the speakers would force themselves to focus.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

54. I say at this point that the crowd is way too polite. eom

[Fla Dem]

217. ITA...I started watching, but when every fringe group had to get

up and have their say, it lost me. I was afraid I was the only one, and just figured I wasn't being sensitive. But I thought this was going to be ant-war, anti Bush administration, sensible speakers talking about how this pResident has so seriously screwed this country. As political as I am, I found the other speeches distracting, and could not focus on their screaming. If that was my reaction I have to wonder how others less committed, less involved, entrenched in the belief of the goodness of Dumbya, would ever see this except as another radical left wing "I hate America rally".

[union_maid]

52. Yup, this isn't helping

Coverage of the rest of the people would be much better. They're showing a particular rally, seems to me. Showing the cross section of people who are participating in this would be much better.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. Israel Is No Angel...

But they are getting bashed way worse than Bush*

[seabeyond]

60. neither side are, but this isnt what this demonstration is about

this isnt what we are fighting right now. this isnt why so many went to dc today

[frictionlessO]

162. You can say that again.

Answer is good for faces in the streets but sucks ass for keeping on message to put those people there.

I really am pissed this is all they are covering.

They better show some real marches later on.

[NoodleyAppendage]

56. Conflating the Iraq issue with HAITI???? What the f*ck?

This rally today is a disaster. Instead of a focused approach on Bush and the war on Iraq, I feel like I'm watching a socialist rally for a laundry list of other grievances around the world.

Cindy hitched her wagon up to the wrong train this time...

B

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

66. Bringing up Haiti was appropriate as it was listed what we did to Haiti

with Bush's sins.

[NoodleyAppendage]

And having the Leader of the Haitian Communist Party give the message??

Maybe you're an ANSWER shill or something...otherwise you are hopelessly blind to the fact that conflating every issue with Iraq only delutes the power of the anti-war message.

JB

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

84. I didn't hear him. I had heard Ramsey Clark bring up Haiti. nt

[NoodleyAppendage]

92. Can't remember his name, but he was on the mike right after Clark.

B

[G_j]

74. and a Republican backed coup under Bush

is not related? It is an international crime and Bush is responsible.
The issue is relevant IMO.

[Seen the light]

58. This is making me so sad

People watching this on TV right now are probably laughing hysterically. *sigh*

[Finder]

191. As they say in PR circles...

"Any publicity is good publicity."

[6th Borough]

263. ...as they say in a PR circle jerk. This reminded me more of Nixons sweat

...that an anti-Iraq war rally.

[rman]

271. You might have noticed very few people here agree with you

I do hope ANSWER does get the message.

[Gemini Cat]

61. Thank-you! I agree.

People who are turning in now are going to be saying a lot of wtf.

[Alizaryn]

63. From Will Pitt

http://www.truthout.org/campcaseydc.shtml
"Saturday 24 September 2005 1:46 PM

The march is unable to move because there are so many people coming in from all directions. Constitution Avenue is a wall of humanity. I am up on the hill that holds the Washington Monument, looking down on the crowd. This is a massive, massive showing.

Hot damn. "

At least they were not lieing when they explained that there were too many people there to move. Makes me feel a LITTLE better.

[coffeenap]

69. Great news--someone get the cameras to that event!!! nt

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

75. Excellent News! Thank you! nt

[rosalux]

64. THESE ISSUES ARE ALL INTERRELATED

Open your minds
I am tired of catering to timid middle americans
Let's just speak the bloody truth to power!
Where else will we ever hear about these issues?


But I can live without the poetry, too.

[Alizaryn]

76. I totally agree with you

However, there is a BIG difference between speaking effectively and what is happening now...IMO. It never serves your cause when you force people to shut you off because they are either not ready to hear or in overload.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

78. If This Is An Exercise In Catharsis It Has Succeded

If this is an exercise to win allies to our cause it is counterproductive...


Hell, If I subscribed to tin foil theories I'd claim ANSWER is funded by the RNC....

[Individualist]

79. Bringing up other issues FRAGMENTS THE ANTI-WAR MESSAGE

To be most effective, the focus should be entirely anti-war

[mcscajun]

91. They may all be Interrelated, but that doesn't mean you have to

speak about all of them at once.

The American Public is like a small autistic child, unable to weed out the message from all the static. Too much stimulation and it shuts down.

Truth to Power is great: Can we please just deal with One Truth at a time? This was Supposed to be about the War ON Iraq and getting the troops Home!

Everything else is secondary to that for those who came to march against that war.

[northamericancitizen]

210. American Public: autistic child? No. More likely

ADDHD: attention deficit disorder with hyperactivity. Not being able to focus on one thing at a time cause too much stimuli.
But I agree with you that in order to keep the attention of a (ADDHD) kid you have to look at him/her in the eyes and speak about ONE Truth at a time.

lise

[coffeenap]

65. This is not the time to bash anyone but Bush--this is the first time in

forever that we have a real chance for real coverage and it is being wasted on countless unrelated causes. There are thousands of good, noble causes in the world--today's rally is for only one: IRAQ-BUSH. We are wasting the opportunity of a decade. shit.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. This Is Why It Took Us So Long To Get Out Of Viet Nam?

The current speaker just called for the end of Israel or an Israel that is dissolved and subsumed into Palestine...


This will really win the hearts and minds of Americans....

[seabeyond]

68. now they threw in ralf nadar, after so many turned their backs

on the speakers. look at them run back. so funny fdunny

[wellstone dem]

70. Do you think the organizers have noticed

that a ton of people have left the rally!!!! Do you think they have a clue????? It's as bad as talking to the right. Gee Whiz!!!