Just my opinion, but the hell with Hillary Clinton

[Mari333]

her response to Ms Sheehan was totally vapid, centrist, crap.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0539,fergusoncamp,68174,2.html

[In Truth We Trust]

1. Ditto

[KittyWampus]

16. "Ditto"? Here's What Clinton Actually Said AND What Sheehan Said

and, first of all, Clinton gets credit for meeting with her. Did BUSH?

"On Thursday, Sheehan sat down with Clinton and Reid, two of the highest-profile Democrats, to pose the same question she has posed to President Bush: “What noble cause are our loved ones fighting and dying for?"

“I asked them, ‘Are you going to be willing to lead us out of Iraq? Because if you do, the rest of the nation will follow you,’ ” Sheehan said.

Neither Clinton or Reid, who both voted for the war, were willing to reverse tracks and push for a U.S. withdrawal now. Nevertheless, Sheehan reported feeling “fabulous coming out of the meeting.”

“I know their offices are going to be working with us; all we have to do is keep up the pressure on them,” Sheehan said, adding, “Now it’s up to the people of New York to put pressure on Clinton.”

snip

Asked afterward about the meeting, Clinton noted that she had met earlier in the day with about 20 moms from American Gold Star Mothers, .... Clinton noted that those moms have voiced “different positions” on the war from the one held by Sheehan’s group, Gold Star Families for Peace.

But Clinton added: “My bottom line is that I don’t want their sons to die in vain.”

Asked when she thought those soldiers’ mission might be complete, Clinton responded: “I don’t believe it’s smart to set a date for withdrawal. I don’t think you should ever telegraph your intentions to the enemy so they can await you.”

“I’ve been very critical of the president’s policies and also supportive of the Iraqis who are trying to move forward and form a new government,” Clinton told the Voice.

“I think it is a much more complicated situation,” she continued. “I don’t think it’s the right time to withdraw, but we also have to stand up and send a message that we’re not going to be there indefinitely. We need to tell the Sunnis that they have to do their job and that we won’t be there forever. Because if you don’t, then what incentive is there for them to ever participate in the political process?”

Clinton cited two key upcoming moments: October 15, when the Iraqis are slated to vote on their new constitution, and December 15, when Iraqis are expected to elect a new government.

Responding to a question of whether Sheehan and the anti-war crowd are premature in demanding an immediate withdrawal of troops now, the presidential hopeful was nothing if not diplomatic.

“No, I think they’re playing a very important role,” Clinton said. “This is a democracy, thank God, and people should be speaking out. It helps keep the debate flowing and creates the conditions for better decision-making, which makes for better policies, so it’s very important.

“Nobody has a greater right to make that criticism,” Clinton said of Sheehan and the other military families who feel betrayed by the war. “But I happen to think that fighting for freedom is a noble cause. There are lots of things wrong with how Bush did it. I believe we should have gone through with the inspection process and acted through the UN. But I believe that standing up against someone as dangerous as Saddam was a good goal.”

Clinton was noncommittal when asked whether she still supports sending more troops to Iraq. “We’ll see,” she said, then disappeared into the Russell Senate office building.

At least Clinton was willing to hear Sheehan and the other military family members’ plea. Republican representative Bill Thomas of Bakersfield, California, wouldn’t let them in the door, while Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist’s staff told the group they would have to fill out a written form if they wanted a meeting. When told they had already called and e-mailed several times, Frist’s chief of staff relented and spent about 15 minutes with the group, which included Iraq war veterans and members of Military Families Speak Out.

[Mr_Spock]

23. Please don't bother pointing out facts to the Clinton bashers

They don't want to hear it.

[ronnykmarshall]

41. Amen!

FYI - I just got an e-mail from Hillary Clinton's office ..... she is voting AGAINST Roberts.

But who really cares? Hillary is a neo-con fascist pig. :sarcasm:

[Mr_Spock]

56. Yeah, I hear Hillary is taking Rush's place on talk radio

Heven't you heard - she's jumped the shark :eyes:

[ronnykmarshall]

66. Chelsea's been bar hopping

with the Bush twins as well.

[Mr_Spock]

76. I always thought Chelsea was kinda cute ;)

Do you know what bars their hangin' out at? :rofl:

[In Truth We Trust]

47. Tha fact IS she has voted for this war and refuses to call an end to it!

enough said imo.

[KittyWampus]

55. Nobody "Voted For This War". The Resolution Gave POTUS POTENTIAL

to use force IF necessary the same way we give cops guns to use IF necessary.

[Kelvin Mace]

59. Still seems like they abdicated their responsibilty

to Bush.

Only Congress has the power to declare war. They stepped up to the plate, then handed Bush the bat and said "You do whatever you want."

Even if you accept that they were duped, then why do they continue to support the war? Do they actually think it can be won? If they do they are as big an idiot as Bush.

Did any of them actually BELIEVE that Bush didn't intend to invade no matter what was or wasn't found? If they did, they shouldn't be allowed loose from the home.

There are no good solutions to the situation in Iraq. Bush created a power vacuum with no one to fill it. Civil war is already taking place and their is ZERO chance of a peaceful solution at this point.

They did not have the moral integrity to oppose the war, so they will continue to support it no matter how many people are killed.

[Armstead]

61. Translation: They voted for the war

Saying Bush could have the power to wage war on his own was the same as voting FOR the war.

It was patently obvious at that point that Bush was already determined to go to war, and was seeking the fig leaf of "authorization." He had no intention to avoid war, even if Sadaam had flown into Washington carryiong a white flag.

Anyone who didn't realize that was either not paying attention, or was so blinded by piolitical manuevering that they couldn't see the forest for the trees.

[donheld]

78. IMHO Hillary voted for the war, not just the resolution

She's had very little to say that wasn't in full support of the war.

[tx_dem41]

62. Amazing how you still remember the Republican talking points...

from last year's campaign. Color me impressed!

[papau]

30. Excellent Post :-)

:-)

[nini]

33. I didn't quite see the issue either when I read this

But then I understand the politics being played too.

[mattclearing]

38. Frist's chief of staff, but not Frist himself? I wonder if he was around.

That's lame.

Good post, though. I think Hillary is doing the best she can with a bad situation.

If she pushes to pull out early, and the system collapses, then her future opponents can say she was responsible for losing the war.

If she supports staying until the political process is complete, we blame her for continuing the pointless violence.

Personally, I think her career is less important, but if she thinks it's worth it to get someone like her into the office to change things, and that's a real possibility, I can see how she would be willing to make that choice.

However, she has to know that in the short term people will die because of her decision. She better win a diebold-proof victory and seriously change the way the U.S. addresses international affairs.

[gulfcoastliberal]

45. What about the freedom of Darfur/Sudan? Equatorial Guinea?

I guess this explains the lack of concern in Darfur:




Oops, I forgot Equatorial Guinea also has lots of oil so we overlook the total abuse of their population.

“But I happen to think that fighting for freedom is a noble cause.

Riiiight. And I have a bridge you may be interested in buying.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

73. HILLARY: "...Fighting for freedom is a noble cause"

So Cindy's son died for a noble cause, after all. Right?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

27. You mean Bill?

Yeah, probably.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Realize I'm from Arkansas

and I've known about Hilary for a while, and I have not been impressed, not only with her stands on issues, but her simple unwillingness to listen to folks with ideas different from her own. Reading her replies to Cindy and her comments about the pro-Bush group sounded more like a GOP candidate than a Democrat, imho.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leeroysphitz]

17. unwillingness to listen to folks with ideas different from her own

The time for that kind of politics is OVER as far as my voting choices are concerned. I've had enough of being ignored.

[jsamuel]

21. fellow Arkansan agrees

[marshall]

22. She listens...but

Hillary will meet with Sheehan and listen to her, but she is not HEARING her. The sound goes in, rattles the ear drums, but it never makes it to the brain!

[tatertop]

4. I had hoped that all Democrats would stand by Cindy

The time is right, the message is right.
Alas, it is not to be.

[confludemocrat]

10. They care more about a DLC Dems "chances" than ending a criminal war

I feel sorry for them.

[tatertop]

68. It's to the point where I'M not sure what we stand for

I fear that kind of 'take no chances' thinking will not win elections.
They won't stand up for anything, then they wonder why
we are accused of ... not standing up for anything.

[tatertop]

69. It's to the point where I'M not sure what we stand for

I fear that kind of 'take no chances' thinking will not win elections.
They won't stand up for anything, then they wonder why
we are accused of ... not standing up for anything.

[tx_dem41]

5. Hurray!....we haven't had a Lets Bash A Democrat thread in an hour!

:eyes:

[Armstead]

11. Was kind of boring without one wasn't it?

[tx_dem41]

15. No....I call it refreshing.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mr_Spock]

25. Tell me about it.

:eyes:

[ronnykmarshall]

42. Time to dust this off again ....

actually there wasn't any dust on it at all.

[tx_dem41]

46. I hope somewhere that guy's family is getting royalties for the use..

of that pic. I love it. Thanks for agreeing!

[Mr_Spock]

74. LMAO - SSDD!!!

Same shit, different day :D

[confludemocrat]

70. Guess a big-name pro-war Democrat is synonymous with "a Democrat", since

that's who's getting justifiably taken to task or "bashed". Nice euphemism usually used by Republicans when they are taking justifed criticism.

[tx_dem41]

79. Why don't you not be like * , and actually LISTEN to what Cindy...

had to say:

“I know their offices are going to be working with us; all we have to do is keep up the pressure on them,” Sheehan said, adding, “Now it’s up to the people of New York to put pressure on Clinton.”

Show Cindy some respect, please! Act CONSTRUCTIVELY.

[confludemocrat]

85. Why don't you not be like Scott McClellan and think of other than pasting

the same phrase into every reply.

[tx_dem41]

97. I figure if I paste it enough, some of you Cindy-disrespecters...

might actually "get it". I see its not working with you. Keep right on "bashing" Cindy's message. Have fun.

[confludemocrat]

105. I like your stubborness

when, unlike now, you are on the right side of a question it should be beneficial to behind that wall of Scotty McClellan-like repetition.

[John Q. Citizen]

75. Does that include Zell also? Or is he fair game?

[tx_dem41]

80. Psssst....Zell's no longer an elected Democratic official n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

84. So then Bill Clinton is fair Game?

[tx_dem41]

96. Feel free to bash any and all Dems you want to, if it makes you feel..

good. Lots of things make you feel good in the short term. Few of those things actually accomplish anything in the long term.

[Armstead]

7. She even waffled on her reasons for the meeting

From the article above, Clinton felt she had to distance herself:

"Asked afterward about the meeting, Clinton noted that she had met earlier in the day with about 20 moms from American Gold Star Mothers, the pro-military group that President Bush has glommed onto in an effort to deflect the criticism by Sheehan and other military families. Bush has proclaimed this Sunday National Gold Star Mothers' Day to honor America’s fallen heroes—just a day after Sheehan and other military families are to speak out at Saturday’s anti-war demonstration.

Clinton noted that those moms have voiced “different positions” on the war from the one held by Sheehan’s group, Gold Star Families for Peace. "

[bahrbearian]

8. Send Chelsea

[oasis]

87. Is Chelsea for the war?

[tlsmith1963]

9. Forget Her

She sold out to the DLC a long time ago. They are as useless as the neocons.

Tammy

[brentspeak]

13. Did I accidentally stumble on freerepublic.com?

[LittleClarkie]

28. If you go far enough to the left, you meet the right coming around back

It's a spectrum thing. That's why our side sometimes sounds like theirs. It's a lefty freeper thing.

[frictionlessO]

35. I know it seems like everyone has to be in lock step with what ever the

leaders say... I thought freeperville was the place for that.

No dissent aloud here according to so many.

[ronnykmarshall]

44. I'm waiting for the "Hitlery's" to start flying.

[confludemocrat]

71. So anti-war outrage is "freerepublic"? got any other wise and wry quips?

[BIG Sean]

14. Sorry...But Cindy has jumped the shark.

I respect her right to voice her opinion. But it sounds like she is starting to believe all of the hype.

I mean come on...are New Yorkers supposed to NOT vote for Hillary because Cindy said so?

Give it a rest already.

[LittleClarkie]

32. I can support her without agreeing with everything she says

She's not infallable.

I feel for her. I thought the Crawford protest was brilliant. But yeah, the words "jumped the shark" occured to me too.

But, as I've maintained all along, it's her message. We can not tweek it or frame it for her. It is what it is, and is presumably coming from her gut. And what she's done so far has been invaluable. But I think the impact she was going to have has already been felt, and folks at large probably aren't even paying all that much attention to her any more. Which might just be a good thing.

[BIG Sean]

43. I agree completely...

I can fight for her right to speak...while still disagreeing what what she says.

America...Love it or FIX it.

[frictionlessO]

39. Yeah you Mother who lost her son in a war based on lies

that has completely disrupted any safety the uS mighthave had, and put not only our country in far greater danger but the rest of the world.

Yippee lets send more soldiers over so they can get fucked up in every which way and further endanger Iraqi lives as well as their own.

Johnny go quickly , eh?

Fairweather for you and as well as it should be.

[LittleClarkie]

52. Bah. Bush already tried that tactic. We're immune to it now

We can disagree with her while still supporting her. I will not blindly follow her as if she were Mahatma Sheehan or something. She is not infallable.

Let her down off that pedastal. I doubt even she wants to be there.

[frictionlessO]

64. Oh sorry you are sooo right and I am wrong.

Sorry... I mean I dont want to not blindly follow the leaders of this cuntry or anything because they are certainly not fallable in the slightest.

Guess you are against the protests this weekend as well.

More soldiers more war more death and you can keep on keeping on because it will not end till we leave and we let Al Sadrs Mehdi Army and certain anti AQ insurgents have at AQ in Iraq.


Thats what you and Clark and Hill and all you supposed centrists have yet to learn. The people of Iraq roundly believe we are the greater threat and not AQ in Iraq. Until we leave AQ in Iraq will continue nearly unmolested by the local populace. Because we are the greater evil.

There is a major difference between the insurgents and AQ in Iraq. AQ in Iraq will continue to have support while we are there and will continue to slaughter anyone associating with us.

BTW if you want to start accusing me of being a motherfucking bushite by saying I use his tactics, I'd suggest you look at where staying the course came from... which is what Hill and Clark are saying (and then some "more troops we could beat them if we had more troops!", that might have workd 2 years ago). Hypocrisy?

I think I'll follow my conscience instead of leaders looking to save face where there is none to save.

Cindy is not on anymore of pedestal than Clark and Hilll but of course they do want to be there.

[LittleClarkie]

67. No, you're not a Bushite.

But saying that folks are being disloyal to Cindy Sheehan and are fairweather friends because they happen to disagree with her in some instances smacks terribly of "you're either with us or with the terrorists." It's just a bit too much like high school somehow. Yea team! (mleck.)

It's too close to the same frame of mind, albeit from the opposite end of the spectrum.

As for the rest, you make assumptions about me based on near nothing. I defend fairness, not necessarily Hillary Clinton, who along with Biden, are at the very, very bottom of my list of potential candidates for 2008. However, I give her credit when credit is due. I try not to be kneejerk in my reactions. She votes against Roberts, she gets a cookie. She does Cindy the courtesy of a meeting, she gets another cookie.

I still tend to consider her a pander monkey, however.

[frictionlessO]

82. That is not at all what your topic line inferred.

What was I trying to infect you with so that you'd be immune. What do you mean by Bush has already tried that? You made an assumption on me as well with that line.

The post I responded to said this

"Sorry...But Cindy has jumped the shark.

I respect her right to voice her opinion. But it sounds like she is starting to believe all of the hype.

I mean come on...are New Yorkers supposed to NOT vote for Hillary because Cindy said so?

Give it a rest already."

I respect the right to criticize, though this poster has obviously had it sooo much with Cindy that the only thing worth defending her over is her right to voice an opinion. Which puts her right up there with Neo Nazis and religious extremists.

FWIW I do intend on voting for HIll though she has been a lack luster Senator.

[Mari333]

19. I voted for all Dems but that doesnt mean I cannot criticize them

Hell, I held my nose when I voted for Kerry..anyone who signed up for this war is suspect IMO..I guess Im a John Conyers Democrat.

[ewagner]

20. What really frosts my cake

is that after this meeting, Hannity, O'lielly, Limpballs, Savage and all the other RW propagandist will be saying: "See? Not even Mainstream Democrats support Cindy Sheehan. She's (Cindy is) a nutcase!"

Hillary just handed them more ammunition.

Bye-bye Hillary.....forget the nomination. forget support from the Democratic base.

[theboss]

26. Well, mainstream Dems don't necessarily support Cindy

I think that the mainstream position is that we need to get out of Iraq as soon as possible but under conditions that make sense. Maybe after the Constitution is voted in is the time. I mean, there needs to be a moment where we say, "Okay, it's up to the Iraqis to sink or swim now." But I don't know if pulling out in a way that looks like retreat is the method to do it. Clearly, both Clintons feel the same way.

[confludemocrat]

81. When is ending an illegal war deemed to have a time that "make sense"?

[Mr_Spock]

24. Clinton bashing post # 24341324232342. Welcome to DU,

Clinton bashing central.

As if we don't have enough problems with are real enemies, we are eating or own - and for no good reason either. Sometimes I just despise this place.

[Mari333]

31. criticism is bashing?

I think criticism is healthy. The with us or against us mentality should only belong to the bushbots. Healthy critiques are essential.

[Mr_Spock]

34. "the Hell with Hillary" "the Hell with Hillary" "the Hell with Hillary" "t

that's a bit more than criticism. You just called for Hillary Clinton to be damned to hell for having a consistent position on an issue that you have already complained about in the past. It's not fair criticism because you already knew her position on the issue. And saying "the hell with so-in-so" isn't exactly a "criticism" opening salvo. It is bashing in my book.

[LittleClarkie]

49. Folks really don't get that distinction most of the time

I run into similar things with Kerry. Criticism I will rebutt. Bashing I will counteract with what I know of the truth, and will likely be called an apologist for my trouble.

As for Hillary, I'm not her biggest fan, but I must give her credit for meeting with Cindy. If Cindy is happy with the meeting that insued, then that's a good thing. That and her impending vote against Roberts... two kudoes from me in two days. She's on a roll.

[ronnykmarshall]

53. No SHIT!

I swear to god, Hillary Clinton could discover a cure for cancer and people would still bash her.

[confludemocrat]

77. Interesting: Hil refused to reconfirm her belief in sending more troops.

Very significant, that has been her consistent position along with Kerry--if she thinks we don't need more, what does that mean? It's so bad there we truly either need many more troops or we need to get out. And given the illegality of the war and the impeachable lies that got us there and the deadly provocative effects of our military presence, if you are a Democrat with principles then you want us out. So whaddya say Hillary? Hre reply: "Let's see."

[Mr_Spock]

86. She's enjoying watching the Iraq war hang Bush out to dry maybe

...that, and the fact that it's a lose, lose, lose situation at this point. Bush bought the farm on this one and I don't think he's getting a free ticket out any time soon.

Definition of lose, lose lose FYI:

1. We lose if we "stay the course" - this shit ain't working.

2. We lose if we put more troops there as the army is extremely strained AND it will hurt recruiting AND we have found that we need National Guard at home.

3. We lose if we pull out suddenly or on an announced date. This is the most controversial, but we will likely lose all we have invested in Iraq, Iraq will likely break out into civil war and many more will die - and it will be our fault, the USA really does look like losers and will lose even more respect if we hightail it out of there.

Personally I would still choose option 3 but without giving any indication that's what we're doing - I actually think that's what's happening believe it or not. I disagree with Hillary's public stance though she may know that we are doing three also and is protecting the country's image - I have no way of knowing.

[confludemocrat]

92. If she's enjoying that then she's worse than I thought

[Mr_Spock]

95. So your going to miss my point and all I typed just to poke my words??

You do understand that it was an expression I was using and it doesn't literally mean that she is "enjoying" the people dying.

No, I didn't think so.

:eyes:

I give up - mine as well talk to a wall.

[confludemocrat]

104. I apologize, no intent to mock your words just my conclusion from what you

said.

[Mr_Spock]

107. You couldn't have read my post.

I said in it that I disagreed with Hilary's position.

I also listed why there is no way to win in this Iraq situation we are in.

You chose to ad hominem attack Hillary instead of giving a reason why you dosagree with her position.

[confludemocrat]

110. I disagree with her pro-war stance and issue an ad-hominem attack on her

We must withdraw. The war is patently illegal, destructive to all parties and doesn't make us safer, and the chaos is exacerbated by our presence. My conclusion is that the Iraqis ahould decide their own future. When and if they arrive at true sovereignty we can help them reparations wise if they ask. Elsewhere here I have fleshed out my disagreement. Given your cranky replies both times I reread in the interest of comity your post, and the subject line and the message don't lead me to reach any other conclusion than the initial one.

[tx_dem41]

37. "The hell with Hillary"...."crap".....

very sophisticated and insightful criticism. :eyes:

[Mari333]

54. Every dead soldier in Iraq is dead because some Dems

went along with this war..until they admit they were wrong, made a mistake, and were fools to sign on to this war, and stop waffling, then I say to hell with them. I stand by my statement.

[tx_dem41]

58. Again, listen to Cindy....don't be like Bush. n/t

[leetrisck]

101. And I can just as easily say too hell with Cindy

in the name of my dead relatives in the war, veterans, etc. - She's going where she can get the most attention. She had bush on the run (she really did) but she was losing face time so she goes wandering off into the wilderness. Hillary meets with her (bush didn't) and then everyone bashes Hillary. Hillary could have just lied to her. "Oh honey, I'm so sorry for your loss" (like bush). Thing is, we are sorry for Cindy's loss and she was doing well. No more - shut up Cindy and go to hell home or wherever but stay out of my face - thank you. I'll stand up for my own dead relatives in my own way but you will never know it - I may be in DC, NY AR, MO WI or anywhere else doing something to stop this war but I sure as hell won't be calling on the Cindy's, the bushes or the Clinton's and then turn around and bash them. I'll do it on my own.

[RethugAssKicker]

29. Shes way too moderate.

She's just another F*** politician. Trying to play the middle road, trying not to offend anyone with her NO-OPINION comments.

[berni_mccoy]

36. Clinton's Bottom Line: "I don’t want their sons to die in vain."

But Clinton added: “My bottom line is that I don’t want their sons to die in vain.”

Why is it so hard for people to accept, even those who were lied to in order to get thier support that the soldiers have ALREADY DIED IN VAIN? THEY DIED FOR BUSH'S VANITY!

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

[tx_dem41]

40. Thank goodness Cindy doesn't agree with your sentiments...

From the article:

“I know their offices are going to be working with us; all we have to do is keep up the pressure on them,” Sheehan said, adding, “Now it’s up to the people of New York to put pressure on Clinton.”

So, Cindy obviously doesn't agree with your "The hell with Hillary!". Why are you knocking Cindy's point of view????

[Mari333]

48. Cindy is more of an optimist then I am

every Dem who voted for this war is suspect, and their continued unwavering support to keep our kids in harms way is suspect.

[tx_dem41]

51. Maybe you should actually listen to her for a change....

or are you like *, caught up in your own worldview and unwilling to listen?

[Mari333]

57. Every day that a Dem doesnt speak out to get our soldiers home

is a day another one dies. Im sorry if you think we have all the time in the world to wait for some of our Dems to step up to the plate, but we dont. Every day they waffle, another soldier dies.

[tx_dem41]

60. Then go ahead and say "the hell with Cindy". The disrespect ...

you are showing Cindy says that loudly.

She wants you to work constructively, and you want to get on the internet and say "The Hell with Hillary!" and what she says is "crap"! I guess its a lot easier to do that though than expend some effort.

[MamaBear]

50. One Good Corporate Donation

One Good Corporate Donation is worth more than any mere lives to the DLC crowd. It's all money, money, money to them. Had not the Repubs gone so insanely Right, then Kerry, Clinton, Edwards, Lieberman, Biden and the whole crowd would be Republican with their banker friends.

And Karl Rove would still have the polaroids on all of them, and they'd all do his will.

Too many people only want to be thought of as winners and care little about what is actually accomplished. I count the DLC, and their supporters, among that crowd.

[Freddie Stubbs]

100. Corporations are prohibited by law from donating money to federal

campaigns.

[Solly Mack]

63. “My bottom line is that I don’t want their sons to die in vain.”

But they did die in vain - and NOTHING will change that. EVER. They died for NOTHING (unless you count defense and oil contractor profits - and if you do, FUCK YOU for even existing)

Illegal war.Illegal occupation. Built on lies. Washed in blood. And the cover-up of lies continues.

All in vain.

[confludemocrat]

90. Shows how truly bankrupt Hillary is. Justifiably: to hell with you,Hillary

Parotting republican talking mantra as someone else is repeating a same mantra--unohoo you are--that since these people died for a lie, more should do so.

[Solly Mack]

99. I'm just beyond sick of anyone trying to turn the Iraq mess into

anything good.

How can it ever be good? It was built on lies for profit. Whatever future end they look into their crystal balls and see in no way justifies the means....or the costs.

besides which, I don't see a good end to it - or the war in Afghanistan.

Just another imperialistic grab that will kill people in the future , just like it's doing now.

[frictionlessO]

65. Shhhh don't say anything bad about Hill or Clark or any other war

supporters... I mean staying the course is the only option they can think of and you dont want to disturb their fragile ego driven existance.

Please stay in lock stop and make sure that all your critiques are aimed at Cindy jumping hammerheads and treating her like the only good thing about this situation she finds herself in is the right to her free speech.

Thank you now please donate to Hills campaign.

[rniel]

72. Elect her and she'll just send more troops in there

Continue the madness. She's not liberal.

[Individualist]

83. I share your opinion nt

[A-Schwarzenegger]

88. To those defending Hillary Clinton in this thread:

Do you agree with her position on the war? Seriously.

[Dr Fate]

109. I defended her- but my answer is "no."

Point taken.

[Fescue4u]

89. Hillary is just playing it smart and down the middle

She wants to be president of course.

Once shes elected, then the gloves come off.

[yankeedem]

98. What if they don't?

She has given ZERO indication that she wants to stop the slaughter. It's not a chance we can take. Let's nominate someone in '08 who is against the slaughter of soldiers and Iraqis.

[Fescue4u]

102. Then we are still better off

While its going to be tough to get a worse president, and surely ANYONE will better, Hillary is proably our best electable hope for the nation

[yankeedem]

106. She's better than a puke , but

Don't you think that we should take a shot at an electable Dem who doesn't believe in the slaughter of soldiers? There is lots of time to find one.

Hillary feeds into the public impression that Dems don't stand for anything- she says "Vote for me, even though I agree with the Republicans".

We need two things from the '08 Presidential candidate

- A fighter against the smear machine: Hillary will do that.
- Someone with somewhat progressive values: Hillary will have to prove herself.

And if possible, no more Senators. And PLEAASE no John "I promised to fight for every vote, before I conceeded" Kerry.

[Pastiche423]

91. I support NO ONE that is pro-war

Did any of you hear Hillary's IWR speech? The 1st 7/8's of her speech listed the reasons we should not invade Iraq. And those reasons were factual.

YET, in that last 1/8th of her speech, she stated she was going to for FOR it.

Hillary is for Hillary. She is not for We, the People. She is not for saving the lives of those sent to an immoral, pre-emptive war based entirely on lies.

I agree w/Mari333. The hell w/Hillary!

P.S. I am not bashing a fellow Dem, as I am an Independent.

[Fescue4u]

93. At least she met with Cindy

Bush refused to ever even meet her.

While she publicly disagrees, only Hillary has had the balls to meet Cindy Sheehan

[Dr Fate]

108. Good point- and she voted down Roberts too.

I'm not a huge fan of hers- but she is a saint compared to any Republican.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

94. An opinion I've held since she voted for the war.

To hell with her and all the others that aided and abetted the slaughter.

[ljm2002]

103. Hi Mari333...

...good to see you back, I haven't seen you around here in a long time. How are you, and how is your son doing? Is he back from Iraq for good?

I'm afraid I, too, agree with your statement on Hillary's position. Yes, it's good that she met with Cindy Sheehan; it's really, really bad that she continues to try and carve out a so-called "centrist" position.

There were literally millions of us, around the world, who saw through the Bush bullcrap during the runup to the Iraq invasion. So Hillary, et al, can try and claim that they were "deceived" by "bad intelligence", etc.; well tell you what, Ms. Clinton, there were a WHOLE HELL OF A LOT OF US WHO WERE NOT DECEIVED AT ALL. And now that we are proven correct on a daily basis by events that have spiraled out of control there, all you can come up with is, let's keep sending our young men and women into a hell hole of our own making.

Pffft.

On the other hand, let us heed Cindy's advice, and keep applying the pressure. It's the only thing we can do, really.

[Moderator]

111. Locking....

This thread has become inflammed and
it has run its course.