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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:50 AM
Original message
Gray Davis engages in dirty campaigns ?
you hear a lot from the whores about gray davis and dirty campaigning. but what is there to back this up ? the ads against riordan were mostly of riordan making conflicting statements on POLITICAL issues. riordan had ONLY been attacking davis during the primary, bill clinton told davis to respond as it would be stupid to allow months to go by during the primary with attacks and no response. so that's what happened. and with bill simon, it was ALL true also. it involved real corruption and policy issues. if you want to talk about dirty campaigning, then lets talk about the campaign against max cleland. all these right wing assholes and whores talking about dirty campaigning NEVER bring that campaign up.
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gWbush is Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. details please
what happened with Riordan?
what happened with Simon?
what happened with Cleland?

Please excuse my ignorance. Thanks!
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. you must be new
you must be new to politics. well with riordan he was way ahead in the republican primary early on. he thought he would win easily so rather than attacking or discussing issues with the other republicans running he went straight after gray davis only. so gray davis begin ads against riordan during the republican primary. one specific ad was of riordan making conflicting statements on abortion rights. this got right wing republicans to question riordan, and they were disappointed to find out he wasn't very conservative and bill simon benefited from this resulting in him winning the primary. bill simon is a business man who was engaged in a lot of corruption. his business was fined and davis ran ads on it.

with max cleland who is a democrat the republicans ran ads comparing him to osama bin laden and saddam hussein. cleland is a vietnam vet who lost both legs and an arm there. but republicans attacked him as not caring for security and being a coward supporting the enemy.

now tell me which of those is false and dirty campaigning ?
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. These were California ads....
Not everyone in the country saw these, so people here
aren't new to politics.
I agree with you that Republicans spin Davis as a
dirty ad backer but in truth the ads have all been
factual on Arnold's "record". He hasn't voted in 13 of
the last 21 elections. He didn't debate without the
questions beforehand. He took millions of dollars from
business special interests. In loans and contributions
he has paid the campaign $7.35 million and contributed to
Arnold's Total Recall committee ( a pro-recall group)

Arnold's ads have been nothing but lies, so who
really is the dirty campaigner here.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. true
i meant mostly the max cleland campaign which he didn't seem to know about but has been discussed by us many times. but in any case it wasn't meant as an insult.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well, of course...
Arnold got into the race very late and the very first thing he says is that Gray Davis is a "dirty politician". Now why do you think he would say such a thing? Could it be that he thought in sucha short time frame he could slip by without scrutiny? I think so.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Arnold = TRASH POLITICS....the GOP uis now officially using Trash Politics
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Composed Thinker Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. This is completely off topic, but I've noticed your Paul Wellstone...
Edited on Tue Oct-07-03 10:11 AM by Composed Thinker
picture a few times now. I've always wanted to say that I've grown a new appreciation for that man after reading Al Franken's latest book. He was such a kind, decent human being and a wonderful senator. (I want to march to Washington and punch Norn Coleman in the throat. Or maybe I will donate to the guy who runs against Coleman in 2008. Whatever.) I'm going to try and read his books at some point.

I just wanted to say that now because I saw you and was just reminded of it after seeing Wellstone's picture.
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Exactly - pre-emptively accuse your opponet of being a dirty campaigner
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marshmellow Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
6. Democratic voters are easy to con.
Religious leaders use guilt as a means to manipulate their flock.

When blacks were on the plantations, white owners told them of the monsters that lived in the northern cities that ate negroes.

Democrats are told that if their candidate goes negative on an opponent they are not worthy of support.

Democrats are victims of guilt merchants and fear merchants.

Republicans have always used fear and guilt to manage personnel.

Democrats will be accused of going negative no matter how they manage a candidate's race so they might as well use a scorched earth strategy. In the final analysis, it's all about winning. The winner is perceived as the stronger person. The stronger person will be perceived as a leader.

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Maybe we are slowly learning ??
At least, the folks on DU are learning... :)
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mumon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
7. What's wrong with "dirty" campaigning? No laws were broken.
As long as there's no murder, theft, extortion, etc., it's just business.

The media can go stick a finger in it.
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spindoctor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
10. Bombs away
I'm not familiar enough with Californian politics to know the details of the cuff, but when Davis was on Bill Maher's show, he was questioned about his campaigning tactics and specifically some add he ran against an opponent.

He laughed kinda sheepishly about it and then apologized.

So yes, apparently Davis is known to drop a stink bomb on occasion.
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FauxNewsBlues Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Feinstein race was ugly
Gray Davis ran an ad comparing DiFi to Leona Helmsley. It backfired on him because it was so over the top, and Feinstein won the democratic primary for the US Senate. It took many many years for the two of them to even speak to each other again. I was actually shocked that Feinstein has been out actively supporting Gray Davis. There was genuine bad blood between the two of them after Davis went after her in that race.
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Nothing dirtier than lying about sexual harassment and battery
Unless you have a very weak memory....
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lovedems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. How is it dirty when it is the truth? What Ahnold did was dirty
and disgusting! The truth hurts sometimes Ahnold. I hope we see a consession speech by the end of the day today. I will stay up late to watch it!
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the_real_38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
16. Gray Davis symbolizes what's wrong with...
... our party - he's just a careerist, with no vision. He's just got a lot of paid advisors around him, telling him what to do and designing attack ads for him. We need to run guys like this out of the party, and get men/women with ideas and ideals.

Go Bustamante!
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
17. Here's a special one
I was asked to call in on one of our local Hate Radio shows yesterday to give the "liberal" point of view on the recall. Some female wingnug (had never heard of her and I know ALL the local wingnuts) was on for two hours (we NEVER get that much time) saying she "knew" of people on Davis' staff who say he's violent. Violent! Our meak, mild little Gray Davis, violent. Of course, they cut me off before I could make any kind of retort. The next time this bozo calls and wants me on his show I'm going to insist on a full two hours.
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