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Davis 46% Arnold 35%----Arnold wins? Anyone else think this is messed up?

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CoffeePlease1947 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:16 AM
Original message
Davis 46% Arnold 35%----Arnold wins? Anyone else think this is messed up?
I am sick of this Republican math to win. How can this happen? Don't we live in a country where the person with the MOST votes wins. This is horrible and I am afraid that Democracy is Dead, Dead, Dead.

We lose the Presidential election even though we got more votes. Now we could lose the largest state even though we got the most votes.

This legal garbage is making me MAD! :mad:


Mike
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hopefully Davis will fight Arnold no matter if he wins or loses
No more being nice from Democrats. We shouldn't even pause if Davis "loses" the recall. The next step is getting Arnold arrested or recalled or both.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think the recall thing is ridiculous
but it is part of California's Constitution. The citizens of California at one time CHOSE to have this provision in their Constitution. Davis isn't actually running for anything so technically he gets no votes. This isn't some kind of legal trickery although it is, IMO, a violation of the spirit but not the letter of the recall provision. But don't worry , if arnold wins, things get worse and the repugs look like fools , if arnold loses, the repugs look like fools. It's a no win situation for them.
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CoffeePlease1947 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. That would fine, but some people live in California
We have to think about the fact that if Arnold fails that means people suffer. I think this not the best attitude to always take.

Mike
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I agree. The thing stinks all the way around.
In my post , I wasn't HOPING that arnold fails, I just don't see how that goon can do anything but fail. He is a foolish man. If arnold wins the election and then fails it will be very bad for the people of california. I don't want anyone to suffer. I guess my point was that although this recall goes against everything I believe, it is legal in California and it is up to the people of California to resolve this issue. If they choose arnold and he fails, it's their own fault. I hope that the recall fails. If it does it will certainly make them less likely to happen in the future. I think that when the recall provision was added to the California constitution it was probably intended to be used as tool against corruption rather then a tool to undo just elections.
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. We are living in an Alice in Wonderland
world, where up is down, black is white and to win is to lose. :wtf:
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. Same formula works against arnie in the next recall
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. of course
Yes it is messed up! No doubt
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. I Hate To Say...The GOOP is slick
They've got legal teams working...going through state constitutions and other legal loopholes (witness Texas) to avoid having to directly face the voters. This is the latest...definitely not the last. While Nevada may have a recall, I think the fiasco and costs this one took will scare other states...especially those with GOOP governors to think twice about using this stunt again.

We have to be aware of these same "wormholes" that are costing us elections and the people their vote. Tain't gonna be easy when the whore media is gonna be so emboldened after they take credit for Gropinator's "victory".
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
8. The recall
should never have happened. The recall provision was not to recall a Gov just because you don't like him. The Arnold recall should be put in motion the minute he takes office, should he win and I pray to G-D, he DOESN'T!
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skyzics Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
9. Would have made more sense if..
The candidate on the second part of the ballot had to exceed the number of votes against the recall in the first part of the ballot. The way it is, Davis could easily 'win' and still lose - just like Gore in election 2000! The GOPers seem to be onto a trend here..!
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CoffeePlease1947 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I think so too
They were not thinking back then.

The person replacing the recalled governor should be more popular than the recalled governor. What retards for making such a law.

Mike
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tlb Donating Member (611 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
11. The issue is moot since that's how the law has been for a century.
If nothing else perhaps this circus will encourage California to revisit the issue and redesign their recall laws. With the thirty prior recall attempts going nowhere they never before had to deal with the realities of what the legislature gave the state.
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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
13. Had a bit in our Kansas paper about the Cal recall numbers...
Saying how it could happen in Kansas but it would be much,much harder. First you'd have to come up with 40% of the total voters in the last election just to get a recall started--that would be a hell of a lot to get to sign up.

They mentioned that in California the number is around 12%. But...if Gov Groper gets elected the Repig powers to be will try and change those numbers so his ass can't be kicked out.

David
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dkamin Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
14. There will be lawsuits
if Davis loses and Arnold wins.

the primary legal block to these lawsuits before, from my understanding, was that there had been no actual harm and only prospective harm.

if there is actual harm, the Dems have a pretty good legal argument for unconstitutionality. well, they would if the courts weren't stacked with idiot partisans with no sense of justice.

the specific argument Davis advanced earlier, which he would almost certainly advance again, is that this is a violation of equal protection. Under the Supreme Court's cases, reaffirmed and extended in Bush v. Gore, all votes should count equally. Thus, the argument Davis would make, which I think is a good one, is that a yes vote on Davis counted less than a yes vote for Arnold, and therefore the recall law (which has never been challenged) is unconstitutional.

also, the Dems will immediately launch a recall initiative if Arnold or Tom wins. regardless of what the outcome is, you will see lawsuits (if the Dems win, there will of course be challenges to the vote accuracy, demands for recounts, etc. all the dirty tricks the GOP has in its arsenal).

i think Davis will beat the recall. incidentally, bodog.com has Davis at +200 right now (bet 100, win 200) to beat the recall, and bustamante at 5-2. i think both are great futures bets.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
pmbryant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
16. Of course this is messed up
It is truly idiotic. The people who originally thought this thing up (back in 1910 or whenever it was) either had their heads on backwards or were undemocratic thinkers.

:wtf:

--Peter
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
17. at least. . .
Arnold will not be "acting" for the next 4 years.

or will he?
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
18. Davis is not running
That is the crux of the problem. Davis has to have over fifty percent to survive while everyone that is running needs only a majority. Patently unfair.
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dkamin Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. a plurality
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I stand corrected ~ A plurality is correct
:shrug: you knew what I meant, I bet.
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