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Kerry's campaign is as bad as Gephardt's in regard to Dean

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pruner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 03:27 AM
Original message
Kerry's campaign is as bad as Gephardt's in regard to Dean
Edited on Tue Oct-07-03 09:37 AM by Skinner
Dean working the younger crowd

BY KEVIN ORLAND
Associated Press

MADISON, Wis. Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean tried to attract younger voters Sunday with a rally and speech on the campus of the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

The former Vermont governor told a mostly college-aged crowd, estimated at 5,000, that the 2004 election would be about a transfer of power to their generation.

<snip>

Earlier in the day, a handful of supporters for Democratic candidate John Kerry gathered near the Capitol building at a closed diner, which is serving as Kerry's campaign headquarters in Wisconsin.

Campaign volunteers decorated the windows with Kerry campaign signs and a hand-drawn poster that read, "Howard's House of Waffles."

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

<snip>

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/news/local/s...
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La_Serpiente Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 03:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. Totally
Those guys should be trying to promote their own policies and records instead of playing shallow tactics. We should be trying to get away from that kind of campaigning, and frankly, I think people are sick of it already.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. Oy!
How counter-productive! How Republican! Spending time and money like that to attack another Democrat. I'm sure the GOP is delighted. They could at least be feeding the poor with their edible slurs....

:eyes:

Julie
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Why no outrage from Dean supporters when they heckled Kerry as "Bushlite"
Edited on Tue Oct-07-03 08:57 AM by blm
and show up at Kerry events with cases of Busch Lite Beer?

Dean and his supporters started down the low road last January and many of you applauded.

Not ALL, but, many.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. We did not *ALL* applaud!
The vast majority of us do not like the negative campaigning. There are irresponsible idiots in any campaign, and tar us all with the same brush is irresponsible of you.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. THen where was the outrage?
Maybe you didn't applaud it, but I don't remember any of Dean's supporters being outraged by Dean's negative campaigning or by how some idiots applauded Dean for it.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I cannot speak for others:
Edited on Tue Oct-07-03 08:58 AM by Padraig18
I have consistently spoken out against flaming, bashing and negative campaigning on this board, a fact MANY supporters of *other* candidates will corroborate.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. altered it
for accuracy.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I can't say I applauded that
Edited on Tue Oct-07-03 08:54 AM by JNelson6563
What I saw in that strategy though was Dean tapping into the frustration of the many of us who had watched our party of "loyal opposition" roll over for Jr. Perhaps you were ok with it all but some of us were sick and tired and angry. Key word, angry.

I seem to recall a certain American revolution of sorts back in the 90's that tapped into the electorates's anger.....and that particular anger was basically manufactured. The anger Dean tapped into was genuine and happened to be directed at Team Bush and their Dem enablers.

Just what is it Kerry is trying to tap into? The angry masses who hate Dean for saying Medicare is a mess because they think it's just right? :-)

Julie
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Translation - It's OK when Dean does it
because Dean tapped into "genuine" anger, so there's no need to get upset when Dean supporters like JNelson6563 call other Democrats (you remember them, right? They're the ones who might end up defeating Bush*) "enablers"

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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Really? Where did I say that?
Actually I disapprove of anyone going to any campaign rally to disrupt it. If I knew beforehand of Deanies planning such a thing I would do all I could to prevent it.

I can see you don't want to address the points I actually do make, I can understand why. No worries.

Julie
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Did you read the post you responded to?
blm mentioned Dean supporters who went to other candidates rallies with cases of Busch-lite beer. Your response was that it was OK for Deanies because Dean tapped into a "genuine" anger (as opposed to the fake anger the rest of us feel)

You also claim to think that candidates should stick to bashing Bush, and not each other, but when someone on DU attacks another candidate, you laugh along with, demonstrating that you only get upset when Dean is the one being attacked. Other times, you find it entertaining.

I can see you don't want to address the points I actually do make

The points you made were

1) The candidates should attack Bush* and not each other = a point you betray by joining in the name-calling, so long as it's not Dean being attacked

2) It's OK for Deanies to attack the other candidates because Dean tapped into genuine anger and the other canadidates are "enablers"

Nah, you'd never attack the other Dems.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. show me the quote
dear. Show me where I said "it was ok". I said I didn't applaud it and that I understood the strategy of it. There is a difference between understanding someting and condoning. One would think with your inferences regarding my reading comprehension you'd be a bit more precise in your own replies.

As to the "name calling", fine, let me rephrase so as to meet your high standards.

Original: The anger Dean tapped into was genuine and happened to be directed at Team Bush and their Dem enablers.

Refined for the more sensitive readers: The anger Dean tapped into was genuine and happened to be directed at Bush and the Dems in congress who helped him achieve his agenda.

I'll go so far as to say that if those in Congress who now claim they were mislead by Bush were to have gotten angry perhaps their campaigns would be doing a little better. Who's to say? :shrug:

Better now?

Julie
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Dean tapped into something to benefit his campaign.
His 11 year record proves that he was one of the DLCers who was pushing the Democratic party to the right.

You can thank liberal Dems like Kerry for countering the centrist compromisers over the last 10+ years and preventing the lurch too far to the right.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. And a fine job he did
especially the last two and a half years. You can't drop the ball all season and then expect only your previous seasons to be looked at.

It's Kerry's long term record that makes me feel I can vote for him if he wins the nom. It is his recent behavior that causes me to work for another to win the nom.

Julie
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. So succinct.
It's Kerry's long term record that makes me feel I can vote for him if he wins the nom. It is his recent behavior that causes me to work for another to win the nom.
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janekat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. That anger is turning off a lot of people. He can't win with that message
n/t
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. his anger seems to be cooling
but you're right, not a soul in the electorate is angry or anything. :eyes:

Oy!

Julie
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janekat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. WE might be - but most are tired of all the divisiveness
I'm starting to feel that way. I've been angry since the Chimp was selected - but I'm now going to another stage - hope for the future.

Hope that the Dems can win and change things in the country. Clark is giving me hope. Now Dean and the rest need to give out that message also.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Most ?
Where are you getting that "most" from? It certainly is not from the amount of everyday people that have donated to Dean's campaign. Those figures alone prove you wrong.

Btw, Dean was offering hope, long before clark's "coy" period when he was trying to decide if he was a Democrat.

I do find it amusing, though, that clark keeps copying Dean. What is that saying? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?
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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
10. When are they going to learn?
While Dean and Dean Corps are out doing great things for their communities of their own free will because Dean motivates and inspires them, Kerry and his Cronies are taking comments made a decade ago (that are entirely different from what Dean's currnet policies are) and making mountains out of molehills while they come up with dumb schemes to force American kids to do community service in order to get a diploma. Pathetic.
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janekat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. What are they doing? Why don't they publicize this more?
I haven't heard about this.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. It's Dean Corp
These are the newest listings for just my zip:

Dean Corps:

Green for Dean - Planting Native Vegetation (4 registered participants)
3850 S. Brandon
Seattle, WA
We will be assisting Earth Corps, Friends of Hitt's Hill, neighborhood residents, and students volunteering through the Univ. of Wash. Carlson Center plant native vegetation in a new woodland park in SE Seattle. At 1 p.m., park will have grand opening celebration. Please wear Dean attire. I will have extra buttons to give to those who ask. I also have a few x-large t-shirts.
Columbia City Area, Northern tip of Rainier Valley. Main entry at 5236 37th Ave. S.,side entry at 3850 S. Brandon. Just a few blocks off Rainier or MLK
Saturday, October 18, 10:00 AM

Green for Dean - Planting Native Vegetation (5 registered participants)
3850 S. Brandon
Seattle, WA
We will be assisting Earth Corps, Friends of Hitt's Hill, neighborhood residents, and students from Univ. of Wash. Carlson Center plant native vegetation in a new woodland park in SE Seattle's Columbia City area. Please wear Dean attire. I will have extra buttons available to hand out to those who ask about Dean. Also have some x-large Dean t-shirts.
Columbia City area. E-mail for more specific directions. Park has two entries, main entry is 5236 37th S., side entry is 3850 S. Brandon, which is where we will initially meet. Just a few blocks off Rainier or MLK.
Saturday, October 25, 10:00 AM

Blanket Drive (2 registered participants)
A Meetup Near You
Greater Seattle Area, WA
Bring blankets, small tarps, and/or warm gloves, coats, or hats to your November Meetup. Dean Corps will arrange to collect these donations for a local homeless charity. Walgreens has basic fleece blankets at 2 for $10, so there's really no excuse ;)
Wednesday, November 5, 07:00 PM

Toy Drive (2 registered participants)
A Meetup Near You
Greater Seattle Area, WA
Bring an unwrapped toy to your December Meetup and make it a special holiday for a family that isn't expecting a visit from Santa this year. Dean Corps will arrange to collect the donations from your Meetup host and give them to a Seattle area children's charity.
Wednesday, December 3, 07:00 PM

http://action.deanforamerica.com/meet/selectmtg.html?zi...

Also on the page are opportunities to participate in an AIDS walk or to visit shut ins.

Any zip can be input at this link and when you scroll down, you find the Dean Corp listings.

http://action.deanforamerica.com/meet /

I've seen some press but mostly it just happens. People get together and just end up seeing there is a way to help out in the community.

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janekat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. The Dem Party is getting so negative: Dean, Gephardt, Kerry
to some extent Kuchinich. I think they're amking a mistake by being so negative all of the time. To be honest, that's why I was attracted to Clark - he seemed to be above the fray. The other candidates need to start giving out some positive messages - give people hope.

So far, Clark's running a "positive" campaign. It will be interesting to see if this lasts. I'll bet he can turn "nasty" if pushed.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
15. George Twigg?
it can't be a coincidence that his name sounds suspicously like George Bush, it must be some kind of subliminal Skull and Bones signal. :tinfoilhat:

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DealsGapRider Donating Member (650 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
20. I love how Kerry talks in his speeches...not.
He starts sentences off with lines like, "And I stand before you today to say that..."

Who the fuck talks like that?

Personally, I think that's why everyone likes Howard Dean. He talks like a human being.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yes...we want someone who speaks as coarsely as we do
on the internet. We do NOT want someone who speaks with an elegance of a bygone era. We want to be just like the Republicans who vote for Joe Scarborough and George Bush. When they talk, they sound just like regular guys. heh
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Point taken, blm, but Kerry's speaking style is paternalistic sometimes,
and I think that's what "deal" might have been getting at. Kerry often seems disconnected from his audience which makes him come across as cold and above it all.

It's a flaw, I wish he'd worked harder on. But, maybe it just isn't something one can't change. Obviously all the choaching Chimp's gotten hasn't worked for him, either. People just are they way they are at a certain point.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. LOL...true...Kerry has talked like that since he was a schoolboy.
I don't blame him for any ounce of elegance and grace he brings with him. If people can't relate to that grace, then that speaks to how shameful the media has been over the last few decades, when the public can relate to someone like Bush and Limbaugh, and glaze over people like Gore and Kerry.
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. That's what it seems like to me as well.
Dean speaks like a normal person and he comes across very clear. I think he can connect with populace. Too much Washington insider polish for Kerry IMO.
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Taxi Driver Donating Member (142 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
29. HEY DEANIES, your candidate is more "Bush-lite" than Kerry
how about you check out each candidate's stance on the issues instead of judging according to rhetorical style?

Kerry is the definition of a LIBERAL.

Dean is a MODERATE. The only strikingly Liberal thing about Dean is his opposition to the war, and guess what? Kerry is also antiwar. He's an internationalist.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. More accurately, Kerry's a PROGRESSIVE internationalist.
Edited on Tue Oct-07-03 05:56 PM by blm
;)))))
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
32. No candidate has a lock
on childish behaviour.
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