I want to tell you all what happened at my church yesterday.

[Midlodemocrat]

I am Roman Catholic. I knew that there would be collections for the American Red Cross.

I started to tell this fundie who was there because a mutual friend was making her First Communion, about Sears' offer to match funds to the Red Cross. This guy, a Southern Baptist, Holier than thou uptight SOB, told me he wasn't giving any money because they were told to get out.

So, I calmly and completely refuted all that, as well as the Fema mess, et al. He retorted with the standard repuke response to this
'what about the state, local level'? etc.

I just continued to repudiate his thinking until he finally shut up.

Then, during the Homily, my very liberal priest stated that blaming had no place in this. Instead we need to focus on the real cause of the destruction in New Orleans, Poverty. That we had a moral obligation and an obligation to Christ to eradicate poverty.

The guy next to me spent a lot of time shifting in his seat and squirming.

And, I did tell the priest about the matching donations.

[ananda]

1. I get so sick of that..

.. blame the victim mentality.

Sue

[Lerkfish]

3. they HAVE to blame the victim to avoid blaming themselves.

[FreedomAngel82]

11. Me too

As it's been pointed out the people who didn't leave didn't have money! How were they going to fill their car with already high gas prices? How are they going to pay for a hotel room if they don't have family or friends in other states? People forget it takes money. My church is also taking donations and a church down the road from me opened their doors for citizen's to stay. :)

[WCGreen]

36. They have been doing that since Nixon.....

And it is the race card.....

I use to laugh when the white collar workers in the 70's and 80's suddebly found themselves unemployed..

How they set up "support" groups so the privledged class could still pretend they were going to work....

While ten years earlier, they scoffed at the beginning of the mass industrail lay offs.....

All they could say was we need help.... It's not my fault.... Whine Whine Whine......

[etherealtruth]

2. My elderly mother returned from mass

...at her (generally very liberal) Catholic church, very pleased that the priest lambasted the federal response and carefully explained to the parishioners that MOST of the looting was for survival and that there was NOTHING WRONG with that (also pointed out that the other looting was not something we could actually judge, as we were not there).

Of course encouraged donations to the relief effort...

[skooooo]

4. another thing...

THe crisis is not just about the people who "chose" not to hoist a motor on their wheelchair and get down the highway -- its also about the hundreds of thousands of people who DID get out, but have nothing left now.

THey're not really better off than those who had to be evacuated. (Of course, they may have SOME additional resources, but unless they're really rich, they're in the exact same boat.)

Beyond that, it's about the communities taking on the extra load of these people. We've never seen such need made so obvious in the US before.

[pippin]

5. Hating the Poor

It's a strange phenomenon I've noticed about many Americans: the hatred of poor people. Lot's of times they are people who themselves are teetering on the edges economically but they are often the least compassionate, the most holier than thou, and the first to condemn the poor. They are also working class people who end up voting repub and against their own interests, and they echo the sort of conservative phrases like "welfare queens," "why don't they (Africaqn Americansm, Mexiscans etc.,) get jobs," and now "why didn't they evacuate?" It's as if they want to distance themselves from the very people most like them.

Interestingly too, many of the people I've met who are like this are the "big C" christians who seem to have forgotten that their boss JC was an impoverished, homeless carpenter!

[Midlodemocrat]

6. I know. I don't get it.

Don't these 'Christians' know about the Greatest Commandment? Or the Beautitudes?

How could a person sit there and look me dead in the eye, a cop no less, and say that those people should have gotten out? Of Course, they should have!!! They would have if they had the means.

I am sorry, but that is just nowhere near the 'Christian' that I strive to be.

How could you not have a broken heart watching this stuff on TV?

Compassionate Conservatism, folks. Speaks volumes.

[FreedomAngel82]

12. I don't get it either

*sigh* It's so disgusting to watch and to hear people speak about poor people like that. What if it was them? Would they want people talking about them like that? I've never understud how some people can hate the welfare program and things like that. As Christians it's our duty to help the poor and those who are meeker then us. Even if we have nothing, or next to nothing, we should still help each other out. It's one of Christ's greatest lessons. "Whatever you do to the least of thee, you also do to me."

[kestrel91316]

17. My BF tried to cop an attitude about the "dumb blacks" not getting out

when they were warned. I told him that not only did these people not have a car, or money for gas, or access to mass transit, or whatever, but that they were in many cases just not as able to cope with this sort of thing as we might be. Whether it's that they aren't as smart, or as well-to-do,or not as physically able, or not as psychologically able..........whatever the hell it was, he had no business putting them down. Maybe they thought the evacuation was a racist plot to take what little they had. I don't care. How could we possibly know why unless we walked a mile in their shoes (and BTW, some of them didn't just WALK out, because they HAD no shoes, or didn't know which roads to take to get out).

They all deserve our caring and concern. We clever, smart, well-educated middle class white folks are not any better than those poor LA folks; we just think we are. In actuality we're just more fortunate.

[StellaBlue]

34. Oooh, scary BF

I just, mercifully, got out of a relationship with someone who occasionally said things like that.

I told myself he was actually really smart and a good person.

But do you really want to share your life with someone who has the capacity to make statements like that? Think about it.

I am glad I now have the opportunity to find someone that I can move FORWARD with, not constantly be dragged down by and constantly have to justify to my own conscience. And if I don't find anyone like that, I am STILL better off!

Sorry to get personal... I just wish more people had pointed out to me how utterly racist and indefensible some things my ex said were... before I got so embroiled it was hard to get out...

[Sapphire Blue]

22. I finally get it - Compassionate Conservatism = conserving compassion...

for the haves & have mores.

[kliljedahl]

24. "these 'Christians' " are Old testament Xtians

It's all about the 10 commandments, not that namby pamby New testament stuff

[salin]

26. they conveniently forget some of the commandments, as well

coveting - they do tons of that; bearing false witness - tons of that too.... :shrug:

[porphyrian]

30. That's no excuse.

Jews are Old Testament, and they are far more compassionate in general than these assholes.

[libhill]

18. It will come home to roost

when their own communities get devastated in some disaster, either natural or terroristic, and the Repukes fuck them, just as they fuck all poor people. Maybe they can pawn their assault rifles for food, huh?

[roseBudd]

21. Reagan started the hate the poor memme, those Cadillacs they drive...

are what we call Hoopties, a piece of shit, rusty, dented, cracked upholstery, loud muffler, high mileage gas guzzling very old used car.

[theHandpuppet]

27. It's because in America poverty is considered a moral failing

This is a nation which has been brainwashed to believe that greed is good. That wealth is a reward for the morally superior. It's not only preached from every boardroom in America but puplits of megachurches whose leaders live in gilded mansions. God wants you to be rich! If only you pray hard enough, if you are worthy enough, you too will be rewarded!

Of course, none of this is consistent with the true teachings of Jesus. Capitalism is its own twisted faith which has hitched its medicine show to the evangelical wagon. The longer I hang around this planet, the more I'm convinced that unfettered capitalism and democracy are mutually exclusive concepts.

[KitSileya]

31. Yes. The roots of Western culture in the US

are puritans and fortune hunters (Mayflower and Jamestown.) Together, these antecedents have bred a disgustingly grotesque culture of greed and morals.

[StellaBlue]

35. That hits the nail on the head

for me

[Brother Buzz]

39. The Puritans didn't arrive on the Mayflower

I fully understand what you are trying to say but I need to point out that the Puritan movement followed and displaced the Separatist movement (Mayflower). The Separatists were an inclusive movement that gave believers (Saints) and non-believers (the Strangers) equal footing as per the Mayflower Compact, and believed in separating church from state. Puritans, on the other hand, had no problems mixing the two entities as long as they could maintain control. Hey, as an eleventh generation Stranger, I feel the need to point out the difference. ;)

[libhill]

40. Agreed -

Nice summary. American history in a nutshell.

[DemBones DemBones]

7. What are the specifics on Sears matching donations

to the Red Cross?

[mcscajun]

8. Sears Matching Funds - Details

http://searsholdings.com/pubrel/pressOne.jsp?id=2005-09-01-0004098836

[DemBones DemBones]

9. Thanks. It's really helpful when you can get

matching funds for your donations. I got mine matched by another organization but it's good to see retailers like Sears and K Mart offering to match donations.

[salin]

10. Some strands of Christianity are down right - anti-Christian

in the sense that they seem to make Jesus an "idol" (give words to claim "worship" as a passport to heaven) but strip away any of the meanings of all that Jesus taught. Pure "Me Generation". All about ME getting to heaven.

All of this "blame" - is really masking pure GREED (won't give my money), and more than likely racism and classism - but most of all self-centered GREED.

[FreedomAngel82]

13. So true

And yes they do worship Christ but God said to put no one above Him.

[txindy]

14. I know someone just like that guy. A total fundie.

She always, ALWAYS lowers her voice when she talks about people who are different than her family, as in, "Well, they are black." As if 'they' haven't been able to figure that out, themselves. :eyes: Then she gets this smug little smile on her hypocritical face. I avoid that Borg like the plague, believe me.

There is some cosmic payback here, though. Her husband's job has caused them to be temporarily transferred to a country where they (white fundies) are vastly in the minority, surrounded by people she would never deliberately associate with. Most of us would probably have the time of our lives, enjoying the experiences and making new friends. She thinks she's in h*ll. Ah, karma. :evilgrin:

[Mich Otter]

29. How I'd reply to that...

In a loud voice, (which I have), I'd say, "They're black, you say. Well I guess they are. Does that matter to you? Are you a racist?"

[txindy]

32. I like that response. I'll use it when/if she comes back here.

And if I can get anywhere near her without ending up in jail as a result. :evilgrin:

[CatholicEdHead]

15. This weekend the donations to Catholic Charities

began, but it was previously scheduled to have a Habitat for Humanity fundrasing push that weekend so they toned that down for the CC relief efforts.

[Mr_Spock]

16. Republican Baptists must not be Christian

They can't be if they are vengeful in the face of the worst catastrophe in our history. People like this have no place in our country - they are pure evil.

[Sapphire Blue]

19. "...a moral obligation and an obligation to Christ to eradicate poverty."

AMEN!!!

[The Magistrate]

20. Indeed, Ma'am

Though a hard old pagan myself, it is abundantly clear from reading the New Testament that that is indeed the basic focus of Jesus' teachings....

[sakabatou]

23. Replublicans can take the truth

[SemperEadem]

25. Ah, the mega-McChurch xtians, worshipping mammon instead of God

this reminds me of the Titanic: the wealthy were saved and the poor in steerage were locked in the bowels of the ship and went down with it... their lives weren't worth saving. Nearly 100 years later, nothing much seems to have changed there.

[DanCa]

28. At our coffee hour they were asking us what we could

I said vote Democrat because we believe in livable wages, environmental controls, helping poor people, and we are against sending the guard in fighting fraudulent wars abroad when they could have been home helping in this mess. One women Dora called me a queer lover and Father Jim asked her do you pray to jesus with that mouth. She shut up and left quick. Oh and I told Dora afterward that I love people regardless of thier orientations class and skin color.

[faithnotgreed]

37. right on dan - we must live love if we are going to

make any headway against these societal ills

and we dont need to go to church for that although sadly that is where a lot of people need to hear and see this truth

thanks for making your stand and living Christ
youre a wonderful person

[Midlodemocrat]

38. "the greatest of these is love"

"Love one another as you love yourself"

Even for those who are non-believers, that is a pretty powerful message.

[spuddonna]

33. God bless you!

I hope these priests wake up and get back to what I remember them doing in the 70's and 80's - they were advocates for the poor, just like Christ was...