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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:18 PM
Original message
REPOST: Eloriel's thread. Plus a word on conspiracy theories
I want to be clear: at the beginning of this whole disaster I reminded the moderators to remove particular topics of discussion which we have removed in the past. This week has certainly demonstrated - again - that the Bush administration is criminally incompetent, but we are not going to be hosting discussions about weather control any time soon on Democratic Underground.

Earlier I removed a thread by Eloriel which had been previously locked. At first glance this thread appeared to be inappropriate, specifically because of the premise that the Bush administration deliberately planned the poor response as some kind of social experiment.

However, DUers were using this thread to build a large and useful collection of links, and attempting to create a timeline of events. As a courtesy I have spent some time recreating the links from the deleted thread and they appear in the post immediately below this one.

We have also instructed the moderators to back off a little on locking threads. I hope you can understand that this has been an incredibly difficult time to moderate the message board, and the moderators and administrators have been doing the best they can under very difficult circumstances. Inevitably there will some arguments about threads that were locked which shouldn't have been, and threads that weren't locked which should have been. We appreciate your patience as we continue to try to work through this, and in particular we would ask you not to repost threads which have been locked. Please contact me directly if you have a question about a locked thread.
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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Collection of links from Eloriel's thread
National Guard not allowing aid into the city (Mistrel Boy)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Link: http://neworleans.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/3941.php

OK if this thread is true then they did withhold aid until Bush got there (refers back to Minstrel Boy's thread)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Read and Weep - FEMA "turned away Police and Doctors" at the stateline
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/Web/2005/092005/0902... : http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0905/256871.html
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0905/256871.html
http://www.zwire.com/site/tab1.cfm?newsid=15144436&BRD=...
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0905/256903.html

CNO directed US naval ships to gulf coast - ON HIS OWN INITIATIVE
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Link: http://www.house.gov/kirk

Holy shit. Cafferty surmises that the Bush photo op and the convoy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

post: not getting authorization from FEMA
I was watching the local news on the NBC affiliate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

See middle of this post for mid-level officer in NG reaction
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

planes did NOT report being shot at
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Link: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1087205

I am waaaaaaaaaay out on a limb here ........
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

WHY is this being allowed to happen?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Randi: "I am starting to believe that this is what they wanted" n/t
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, its Strategy of Tension, got it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Bush WANTS Katrina victims to die.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Anyone know what happened to the Scanner Feed I had been listening to?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Reporter on WWL-TV "Same amount of choppers in the air....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

THE BOY SCOUTS!! THE FREAKING BOY SCOUTS!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

FEMA to Russia: Don't send aid!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/31/katrina/main8...

LIES from FEMA!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Why did it seem like a lightbulb came on in the FEMA guy's head when
Anderson Cooper mentioned air lifting food.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

what the aircraft carrier will really do
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Rescue teams showed up for phony media pictures with Bush
http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/meldungen/0,1185,OID46...

Too much critism... This report is good: To be copied in your video player:
mms://213.254.239.51/tagesschau/msmedia/2005/0902/TV-20050902-2032-4601.wm.hi.wmv

Translation of the Transcript
http://rapidshare.de/files/4684828/01-_tagesschau_de_-_...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

english language version...front page
http://www.tagesschau.de/english /

CNN BREAKING: concerns of rioting breaking out at convention center
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

follow the link. They really are calling it an 'insurgency'.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Halliburton hired for storm cleanup
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/33356...

Another View from Louisiana
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Investors bet on Katrina's winners and losers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Mayor blasts failure to patch levee breeches
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/31/katrina.levees

FEMA tells rescuers - Buy your own gas!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Must Read - A "floatilla of aid" TURNED BACK from New Orleans...Explain!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.thedeadpelican.com/lawyer.htm

Calculated Criminal Negligence-PNAC & Climate Apocalypse-Read This
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10078.h...

Fox Reports: NG not allowing people to leave Convention Center
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

CNN BREAKING: concerns of rioting breaking out at convention center
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Raw: July 2005 article reveals New Orleans told poor: 'You're on your own'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/July_2005_article_reveals...

LIHOP? MIHOP? Come on folks. Take a breath and think. (Pitt)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

On Malloy now: Red Cross was ORDERED to stay out of the area
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

WTF? the DHS is not letting the Red Cross into New Orleans?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html#4...

What is going on at the colieseum? Why are they not letting anyone out?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Murder and mayhem in New Orleans' miserable shelter
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N02134169.htm

Daley 'shocked' at federal snub of offers to help
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050902dale...

Daley 'shocked' at federal snub of offers to help
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050902dale...

Louisiana sent letter begging Bush for help on 28th
http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pd...

A "floatilla of aid" TURNED BACK from New Orleans
http://www.thedeadpelican.com/lawyer.htm

FEMA powers per Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEMA

FEMA under the Bush Admin
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/20...

Here's the motivating event for why here and now
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/090205_bet_li...

Aid offers pour in from around the globe (Bush rejects it)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Louisiana Catastophic Hurricane Planning Workshop 2004 (FEMA Sponsored)
http://www.lepa.org/Newsletter/newsletter2.htm

Continued (on PDF "Spring 2005", page 3)
http://www.lepa.org/Newsletter/newsletter2.htm

Think about the implications of this: Nat'l Guard in Iraq, NorthCom HERE.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

the "Comfort" hospital ship will leave port NEXT Sunday!! it has not
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Red Cross NEVER allowed into New Orleans.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

LIARS! LIARS! LIARS! (very good discussion)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I just watched ABC's 20/20 report on Katrina's impact on
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

On Malloy now: Red Cross was ORDERED to stay out of the area
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

WTF? the DHS is not letting the Red Cross into New Orleans?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html#4...

July 2005 article reveals New Orleans told poor: 'You're on your own'
http://rawstory.com/admin/dbscripts/printstory.php?stor...

If the Press can drive in to report why can't Those Stranded be picked up?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/story/0,16441,1561996...

Why does the New Orleans nonresponse remind me of 9/11 ?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Any MIHOP/LIHOPers rethinking after Bushco's Katrina clusterfuck?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

New Orleans SURVIVED Katrina. The City was KILLED by REPUBLICANS!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I'm watching a New Orleans station's news....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

THEY KNEW EVERYTHING!!! They are GUILTY!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://hurricane.lsu.edu/_in_the_news/tmemag0404.htm

JP's (Jefferson Parish) Maestri said FEMA didn't keep its word
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlo...

the "Comfort" hospital ship will leave port NEXT Sunday!! it has not
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Mayor Daily shocked at being snubbed
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050902dale...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Slow response bewilders former FEMA officials
http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/politics/12549282.h...

JP's Maestri said FEMA didn't keep its word
http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlo...

A little bit of disconnect with reality based community and Bush/FEMA based reality:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Emergency Aid Authorized For Hurricane Katrina Emergency Response In Louisiana
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18447

Homeland Security Prepping For Dangerous Hurricane Katrina
Residents in path of storm "Must take action now"
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18461

First Responders Urged Not To Respond To Hurricane Impact Areas Unless Dispatched By State, Local Authorities
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18470

Assistance Continues To Areas Impacted By Hurricane Katrina
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18471

Cash Sought To Help Hurricane Victims, Volunteers Should Not Self-Dispatch
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18473

President Declares Major Disaster For Louisiana
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18478

Evacuees Cautioned Not To Re-Enter Damage Areas Prematurely
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18488

Life Safety Tops FEMA Priorities, Supplies Pour In
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18497

Main link to archives:
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsarchive.fema?year=2005&mon...

Award-Winning Report "Major Hurricane Will Hit New Orleans" Was Ignored
http://www.nola.com/hurricane/?/washingaway

There was chaos on the local police scanner last night about buses
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Guardsmen Halt Evacuation at Superdome
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

On BBC: Northern Command was in position, waiting for Presidential orders.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

We are still waiting for the video file, but here is the correct link
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Is this connected somehow?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

National Guard Delay (no approval by WH til Thurs!) Likely to Be Examined #
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_national_guard

Troops begin COMBAT operations in NO
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1077495.p...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Fires burn along river; thousands wait to leave
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.impact/index.h...

Time to end the doubt. Letter from Gov. Blanco to Pres. Bush - 8/28
http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pd...

Congress Likely to Probe Guard Delay
(White House delays National Guard approval until Thursday)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_national_guard

Convention Center airlift begins. President * holds radio address AT THE SAME MOMENT
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Red Cross not allowed into New Orleans for total BS reason!
http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html#4...
http://dailykos.com/story/2005/9/2/2125/04978
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/3/02454/07418
http://www.newsmeat.com/washington_political_donations/...

Troops begin combat operations in New Orleans
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1077495.p...

Chicago Mayor Daley stating back on SUNDAY that Chicago was ready to help out.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/hurricane/cst-nws-daley0

Act of God (I was wondering where he was, says Rove): NOW, sir: send in those Nat'l Guard: its Thursday evening and the orders go out to get the NG in there.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_national_guard



The Big One: It's just a Matter of Time
http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf?/washingaway/th...

FEMA "said they had to CONTRACT OUT for that and couldn't use volunteers.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

FEMA can do just about whatever it wants, they could take those airboats
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Doctors and police turned away...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Report from the leevee
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Dutch viewer: Bush's completely staged New Orleans mercy mission
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/002485.html

German plane with aid stuff rejected
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

FEMA is trying to stop all aid, they want to CONTRACT it out
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

BREAKING: Bush visit to New Orleans halts food delivery
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Leader of Federal Effort Feels the Heat
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/national/nationalspec...

Fearing riots, Guard rejects food airdrops (Sept 3rd...Today)
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?article=31346§io...

The suspicious non plugged in phones photo-op from crawford
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Oops .Dept of Homeland Sec Web site claims FULL responsibility for any natural disaster
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/09/michael-chertof

bush faked levee repair for photo op yesterday
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Part Three- The Cost of Survival
http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf?/washingaway/se...

A Couple More Corraborating Links
http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlo...
http://progprog.blogspot.com/2005/09/olbermann-limbaugh...

Globalists vs the Military Industrial Complex ain't a Democracy to me
http://www.net4dem.org/mayglobal/Papers/JerryHarris_Mil...

Privatizing the hurricane
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Privatized rescue/relief : When did FEMA contract for the 650 buses?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18540

Part 4- Tempting Fate
http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf?/washingaway/te...

Same page today:
http://www.fema.gov/news/eventdfrns.fema?id=4808
http://www.fema.gov/news/dfrn.fema?id=4489
http://www.fema.gov/news/dfrn.fema?id=4464
http://www.fema.gov/news/dfrn.fema?id=4484

National Guards “played cards” amid New Orleans chaos: police official
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

about the two ladies Bush posed with
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

FEMA: The secret goverment.....History and executive orders
http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon6.html
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Bookmarking permalink. Perhaps this should go in the Demopedia?
NGU.


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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Now can you pin it to the top of the page
Pretty please? :)
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. and this sums it all up in two threads for what it's worth...
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. thanks!
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Thanks!
Sometimes conspiracy theories are only mental exercises that help get to the truth when something smells fishy.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. Excellent! Please pin - when services go down because of overload
on site it is very hard to track threads - we understand that you do have to limit services and we thank you for keeping the board alive - please pin this at the top so that we can find it.

Thank you!
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. USS Bataan floating off LA: FEMA withholds order for assistance
Edited on Sun Sep-04-05 03:39 PM by seafan
To add to this thread these important links:

Relief ship (USS Bataan) held offshore right after storm passed, no FEMA order to help

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Direct link to Chicago Tribune article:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509...

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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
58. Here's another
reprehensor's BUSH'S FEMA FAILED US ALL

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
86. another Alaska airlines plane with supplies etc refused by FEMA
Edited on Mon Sep-05-05 01:03 AM by caligirl
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


original posted by
ConsAreLiars Donating Member
Alaska Airlines plane & crew turned away from relief effort


Edited on Sun Sep-04-05 09:36 PM by ConsAreLiars

A caller to the Erin Hart show was one of 22 employees who had staffed a donated plane with supplies sufficient to sustain them and fly continously for a week without any additional logistics needed from anyone, other than instructions. They were told to forget it by FEMA HQ in DC. The Alaska Airlines volunteer was outraged and angry.

The interview is over but the show is at http://www.kiro710.com /
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
157. State of the art mobile UNC hospital not allowed to treat victims
Edited on Mon Sep-05-05 09:47 PM by ultraist
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
167. Wow, just Wow
No wonder we've been at level 3 so much the last few days.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you for everything!!!
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you, EarlG !
Much appreciated! :yourock:
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:21 PM
Original message
Thanks for doing this
I think it is important to remember the moderators are human beings, and, like the other folks here, have been through a lot these last few days. Thanks to all of you.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is NSMA...thanks EarlG
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. thanks and a recommendation for the Greatest Page...
...both to keep this info near the top and to thank the admin and mods for all their work!
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. You earned your wings today, EarlG
:loveya:
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AbbyR Donating Member (734 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thank you for all the work
It must be awfully difficult during this time. I made my first DU donation during this period when I realized that I was getting all my directions and my major information from here.

Again, thanks.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. and that Star looks lovely on you too! Thanks n/t
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thank you, EarlG and thanks to all the MODS.
INCREDIBLE info here! EVERYONE should bookmark this.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks so much!
You are a gem!
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
15. Thank You Earl G For The Explanation
of something I've noticed. And as the subject is being discussed could you tell me why H20's Weepin' & Wailing" thread was shelved with more than half of it missing? Went to look and found it so, which surprised me as it hadn't been locked (as far as I know). I do appreciate what you and the mods have been up against and how fast it has been around here, and a bit like the wild west. I also appreciate you requesting the mods to ease up. Hope for an answer and thank you in advance.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
40. I'm curious about that, too. n/t
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. Thanks EarlG
I've never lost my faith in DU.
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beetbox Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. I want to thank you for the following reason.
The Internet has not only become easily the best news directory in the world but it is slowly becoming one of the most important places for historical archives. This event in New Orleans will, I believe, be looked upon as one of THE seminal events in American (Post-Modern?) history. The implications of this tragedy, the hurricane and its aftermath, are too enormous for us to grasp at the moment.

Eloriel's thread contained within it an enormous amount of important info that can be used to begin a current and ultimately historical analysis of sorts. When I came back this afternoon to see it had been disappeared I felt like a wealth of important knowledge was gone with it.

I am in the process of compiling and cataloging info on this tragedy with the hope of writing a booklet for small scale distribution. Eloriel's thread, as well as many others, goes a long way in helping this small project.

Again, thanks.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
18. Your recreated list of threads is commendable.
I've bookmarked and nominated this thread. Thank you for all the truly great work you do to keep DU fair, just, and informative.

EarlG rocks! :headbang:
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
19. Given everything else you have been doing, to take the time to ...
... assemble this very important historical resource is way commendable.

Thank you. You might want to 'pin it' to the top of the GD forum for a few days; it is certainly worthy of persistence.


Peace.
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akarnitz Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thanks, Earl! Keep up the good(hard)work.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
22. Thanks to EarlG and Eloriel for all your efforts!!! Nominated! n/t
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
23. a thank you and a comment
Edited on Sun Sep-04-05 03:02 PM by nashville_brook
with every new disaster there is renewed discussion of the importance of "blogging." i heard it again just today on NPR's On The Media, in their interview with the Times-Picayune editor. who said in as many words:

"blogging" is saving lives.
"blogging" is providing essential information 24/7
"blogging" is informing our stories as well as providing much-needed expansion thru forum usage.

post-katrina demands connecting the dots and we can't do that if the dots disappear. that's our lesson. information is survival.

we are not a news-outlet. i don't use my DU bumpersticker as a press pass. we are just folk talking to other folk because that's where wisdom comes from.

we should be reminded of what a FORUM is and why it was that Socrates was made to drink the hemlock. Impiety? Corrupting the youth? Indeed.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
24. did wayne madsen's site commenting on DU/Kos censorship cause this?
just asking.
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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Actually I was almost done recompiling the information
before I was informed of Wayne Madsen's comments. And I have no idea what's going on at Kos... haven't exactly had much time to get over there recently.
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Could you inform me...
why these sorts of posts were deemed inapropriate in the first place?

I mean, you specifically mention weather modification for example. Was this topic considered too "tinfoil"? I am interested because I wouldnt want to post anything "inapropriate" and knowing what constitutes such could help prevent events such as this.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. i agree with thinkingwoman. you folks are doing the country a service here
lets get that timeline up.

btw: josh marshall is doing a thread where he is attempting to gather the info to counter the bushevik spin. this is too important and too difficult for a single blog/site. so i am scanning there and kos and atrios, and other sites to gather information to send folks here.

we need to set the timeline so americans can see the facts and counter the spin that is already being set up in the major media. we have seen what the busheviks do and how they operate now, so we can counter them better.
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thinkingwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
26. Thanks EarlG and all mods and admin
You all have a tough job and I (and many others) appreciate you. I don't know how you all do it but I do know that if DU hadn't been up and running all week (regardless of level) I'd have gone completely insane. This place has been my lifeline this week.

One of the things I love best about this site is that mods and admin listen to and consider and respond to concerns expressed by users. This repost is just the latest example of this.

Thank you again mods and admin!
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
31. Keep this kicked and nominated!!
:kick:

(and thanks EarlG and Eloriel!)
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Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
32. Interesting, thanks EarlG
keep kicked
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
33. More links to information documenting events
State Dept has not accepted any of the offers of aid, money, help, machine
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

CBS: Official Washington was like a dog watching television
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Death toll will climb past 15,000 as conditions worsen
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

kid that saved a bus load of people is now in jail for stealing bus
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Landreau On "This Week" Threatens To Punch Bush If He Keeps Criticizing!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Sunday papers (including conservative ones) rip Bush hurricane response
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

FEMA crippling communications?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

New Orleans mayor calm after Bush meeting
http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/b...

Police have killed at least a dozen in New Orleans today
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

FEMA TERRORISM and the democrat(ic) censors.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Red Tape Keeps 100s of Doctors From Caring for Katrina Victims
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Via Atrios: For the record, the AUGUST 27 declaration from the WH
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Natl Guard Crimes in Super Dome and NO - Rapes, Murder
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
34. REAL weather control technology - Not to MAKE storms, to kill them!
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
73. There are non-military applications
and then there are military. And without getting into it here, we know by the Pentagon's own words that they are pursuing them.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
35. kick n/t
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nascarblue Donating Member (693 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
36. I don't agree with the censor. A topic that raises all these links?
I believe if you hunt down local New Orleans message boards online, you can see that the CIA media have been doing heavy damage control. But even a Bushbot can get a heart when they see criminally negligent genocide first hand. We're no better than Germans in the late 1930's if we don't VIGIROUSLY examine all angles. To suppress it is undemocratic.

Someone has to strike a match to light the fire.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
37. Thank you EarlG, the other admins, and all the mods!
You do a wonderful job. DU is an important service, and it wouldn't exist if not for your hard work!

Some people might not realize that all the mods are volunteers. They don't get paid in any way for the many hours a day they spend on DU. I was a mod once and until then I had no idea how many trolls and disruptors visit DU every day. If not for the constant work of the mods and admins, this site would be overrun with garbage and unusable within days. The right wing would love to shut down DU. The mods and admins are our first defense. They keep this site running smoothly.

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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
38. I wasn't going to respond ...
but the more I think about your OP, the more I feel just a little insulted by the mischaracterization of my thread, and feel the need to respond.

... we are not going to be hosting discussions about weather control any time soon on Democratic Underground.

There were a couple of posts mentioning weather control almost tangentially, but the thread itself was NOT about weather control, nor did I actually suggest that the Bush administration caused the hurricane. I realize that using the term LIHOP/MIHOP made some people, including certain prominnent DUers, think that I was suggesting it, that's not the case and I made that CLEAR in a subsequent post in my thread. To be rigorously honest, because I have actually done some research on the subject in the past and know that the subject of attempts to manipulate weather is NOT completely out of the realm of possibility, I also said that I wasn't completely hostile to the subject. But we didn't go on to discuss it any further. So characterizing it as such is, IMO, inappropriate. And unfair.

Earlier I removed a thread by Eloriel which had been previously locked. At first glance this thread appeared to be inappropriate, specifically because of the premise that the Bush administration deliberately planned the poor response as some kind of social experiment.

Well, I wasn't exactly calling it a "social experiment," tho I did speculate in my OP that it had an element of that to it -- but with a specific purpose in their minds, not just to be playing around, and I still believe it does.

AFAIC some of the information we've seen since then (since Friday, Sept. 2, at 4:25 pm) supports my OP "conspiracy theory" at least in broad strokes -- widespread credible reports of FEMA's unconscionable withholding of aid and rescue efforts, the power struggle between the Bush Admin and Gov. Blanco, reports (currently unconfirmed, AFAIK) of suspension of posse comitatus this morning, and so forth -- it strikes me as absolutely undeniable that, YES, you bet "the Bush administration deliberately planned the poor response." Did they plan it in advance in preparation for this hurricane, or in advance in preparation for some other hurricane or other potential natural disaster? Or have they just taken advantage of the situation as it developed, as good fascists are wont to do? I don't know. But the evidence is there (well, elsewhere now, not here at DU), and accumulating.

As one sagacious DUer put it: Incompetence gets you to Tuesday.

Anyway, if anyone has whacky conspiracy-theory stuff they now understand would be considered unsuitable for DU, please feel free to PM me. I am still compiling this stuff, and will be.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. thank you for your response. this helps me understand better this FLOP
failure to lead on purpose? i don't care what it's called. people are dying.

i would like to continue to work on this subject. i'll PM for direction to sources. people NEED this info.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Eloriel... Please understand...
Mods were under orders to delete any weather control threads because of all the kooks who claimed that the USA caused the Tsunami intentionally.

Now, I have tweaked that rule a bit by posting about some real and very promising weather control technology to kill storms...

But the fact remains that the New York Times focused on that one thread to make all of DU seem to be kooks, and we cannot as a community afford that.

EarlG did a wonderful thing by preserving your links and re-starting this thread and crediting you, and I think he meant NO slight to you in his discussion of the problem with weather control threads.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. never mind
Edited on Sun Sep-04-05 06:49 PM by Eloriel
.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. I'm trying to make peace here, Eloriel.
I seem to mostly be upsetting people further, though. :(

We have to try to get along if we are ever going to take back this country, though, and if we can't get along among ourselves, how are we going to convince the disaffected Bush voters to side with us?
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. "Getting along" works both ways. "getting along" means not silencing
Edited on Sun Sep-04-05 07:54 PM by mom cat
people who have done so much for this site. As far as I am concerned, all theories about this catastrophe should be examined.Are we supposed to worry about our image? I thought that was what Bush does...not us. Does every post have to pass the image test? If the press is reading us closely enough to find one thing about weather control, WHY are they not reading us closely enough to see all of the info that is here and why are they not publishing THAT info. And where is there critique of the freepers?
Moreover, why don't YOU get it. They will do anything to discredit us. Should we start self censoring so we do not get slammed? We have to have courage when they come after us, and they will. We must stand behind our most productive members, not silence them!
Then, maybe, we can get along.
Edit for sp.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. Diplomacy is where you move towards a tolerable situation by inches.
We started this morning with an intolerable situation; The postings were locked and then removed, formal warnings were issued...

We advanced to where this thread was created and an apology was rendered. And I can guess that some diplomacy you did not see in public was involved in doing that.

Now we have a situation where the diplomatic thing to do, and the one that would advance things further, in my opinion only of course, is to accept that this thread is here and continue with the good work that was being accomplished in the original thread, and at the same time begin a dialog with the mods and admins about how to coexist in the future.

As in the current strife in "The Holy Land", peace can only happen when both sides have an earnest desire to get along and a full understanding of each other's issues. I can help by trying to air the issues as I have been on both sides of this equation, but I cannot make people want to get along.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #59
131. Diplomacy is listening, not imposing
"In my opinion only of course" we may further dialogue by avoiding condescencion, red herrings, false assumptions, trick questions, unintentional arrogance and back-handed insults.

Perhaps I present my assumptions as if they should be shared and complied with by all. If so, I have a huge blind spot in theorizing effective strategery.

:hi:
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #49
81. If it wasn't one thread that the NYT seized on to make DU look bad....
...it would be another. That's true, isn't it?

If they seize on enough threads to make DU look bad, maybe we won't have any threads to discuss at all.

IMHO, I think that you and others spend way too much time worrying about what non-DUers think about this board.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #49
90. To two of my favorite DUers:
Well actually, I have many favorites DUers. :)

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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #45
146. And I owe you an apology.
I'm sorry that I offended you.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #41
89. When was something from DU in NYTimes and what was
written? For the record, I'd like to know. Link?
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #41
183. I thought Tsunami was cause by a quake, not the weather, or am I wrong?
As a matter of fact congress has a bill to do just that. Research to control the weather.

Weather Modification Research and Technology Transfer Authorization Act of 2005 (Introduced in Senate)
S 517 IS
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:s517 :

The Act passed and will be implemented on October 1, 2005
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Thank you for your response and most importantly for your compilation
of important information.

Do we need a board that specifically looks at this DELIBERATE withholding of AID by the feds? Or is there already one set up?

If so let me know and i would be glad to help or If there already is a board please post a link.

Thank you again for your important work of helping to spread the word :toast: :loveya:

peace
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #42
65. The MARINES Have Landed in LA (paging Will Pitt) -------- ------ > MP3
"Just a week ago today who could have imagined this happening in an american city" - WDSU reporter

MP3...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/katrina/marines-hav...

more katrina media...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/gallery/index.php?cat=1...

just wanted to add to the list :hi:

peace
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newswolf56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. It seemed to me many posters on Eloriel's thread were beginning...
to develop a genuine understanding of the debacle in New Orleans as an especially horrific expression of class warfare -- and thus of the extent to which Bush and the oligarchy he serves have ironically re-animated Marxism: especially as a vehicle by which discover the historical truth of class-struggle and thus comprehend what is being done not only to the people of New Orleans but to all of us who are not plutocrats. Is it possible that this evolving Marxist consciousness (and not a couple of paranoid mutterings about "weather control") was the real motive behind the apparently pivotal belittlement of DU by The New York Times? Just asking...
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Bingo bingo bingo
and you'll find that the same people most annoyed by these open discussions are the same ones pissing in the Castro/Chavez threads.

What does that tell any thinking person? That material "things" and capitalistic wealth matter more to certain *Democrats* than social justice.

I was here on 9-11. Right here at DU when we had lol, oh lol, "esteemed 'Liberal' posters" telling everyone to get behind our leader, President Bush while posts about how Bush was complicit, compiled by DUers who had been tracking that little rat, tracking his shutdown of the Muslim websites, tracking the complic under-the-table deals were shut down as "conspiracy" theories.

An educated citizenry is a citizenry that won't accept social injustice. That won't accept obscene BILLIONS poured into the Pentagon for weather control experiments/projects. This is why we can not talk about these things.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. If the NYT can find a few lines about weather control, why can't they find
all of the valuable info on this site...and then publish it? Why is the paper that soooo supported Judith Miller's lies that led to over 100,000 deaths so eager to trash us? Are we becomming too effective in exposing George. We need to brace ourselves, but not censor ourselves.
PS, Did the NYT expose the freeper site,s blantant racism? These are the questions that need to be asked!
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. Because they don't want to find anything good about us.
They will only publish the bad, so why give them anything to use?
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. r u kidding?
they will always attack us, NO MATTER WHAT we say, i thought you of all people knew that.

but don't kid yourself to think that we can somehow image manage ourselves into M$M respectability, thats pie in the sky.

If we do go down that road we will destroy what we have created.

also... didn't i just see a post of yours advocating WEATHER MANIPULATION? this is very confusing coming from you.

help

peace
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #63
71. I'm an engineer, Billy...
I look for a technical fix for everything, including the fury of nature.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #60
70. Good question, and it deserves an answer. The thing that makes us strong
is our ability to disagree and still keep the dialog going. If we start to censor that kind of dialog, we are in trouble. If we focus more on our image than on honest dialog, then we are on a slippery slope. It is in this crucible that ideas can get testes, examined, challenged, criticized (with remarkable decorum for the most part), and developed into usable plans for action. I have seen other organizations get to a certain level of power and start to come under fire. It was inevitable that this would also happen to DU.If they really want to tarnish our image in the mainstream media, I has no doubt that they will find...or plant..evidence! Look at what they did to Max Cleland! If they can make a triple amputee look like a terrorist, then I am sure they can smear us. Do we fight this with attracting our own or by standing up to those who make distorted and false claims. We should be writing LTTE's to the NYT to chastise them for there distortions and question them about their coverage and stay on their case like stink on shit.
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newswolf56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #55
69. Actually two issues here:
(1)-Nothing terrifies the oligarchy more than the possibility of resurgent Marxism, especially in the United States, with its Bill of Rights and Constitutional principles to protect and further the peaceful achievement of socialism via the electoral process. Hence -- just as I noted above -- the deliberate suppression of objective analysis: the fact that the historical truth of class-struggle explains how and why Bush's policies are responsible not only for the government's failures in New Orleans, but for the worsening economic hardships the oligarchy is inflicting on all of us. In this context note too the seeming disappearance of threads comparing successful Chinese and Cuban disaster-relief efforts to the debacle in New Orleans. (If these threads have not been deleted -- if I am simply looking in the wrong places for them -- I will be the first to post a correction and apologize.)

(2)-The oligarchy's fear of First Amendment freedoms, nearly as great as its abject terror of Marxism. The oligarchy now controls most of the press and virtually all the broadcast media, but has thus far been unable to (completely) censor the Internet. Hence the widespread and often venomous corporate-media hostility to blogs, bloggers, and (theoretically free) websites like DU -- a hostility specifically expressed by the The New York Times -- a wholly predictable effort to suppress and discredit freedom of discussion by portraying DU as a collection of loons.
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Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #55
94. Because this site has managed to attract a lot of
literate and informed posters!

The job of the NYT article is to limit that flow. Who wants to waste time checking out a site frequented by "paranoid mutterers" when you could get "rational and informed debate" within the pages of the Times instead!!





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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
51. You will be vindicated, Eloriel, when President Dean...
...reads one of your posts on the floor of Congress during the state of the union address, and the FACTS that you've uncovered live as an American legacy in the congressional record!

:bounce: :toast: :bounce: :toast: :bounce: :toast: :bounce: :toast:
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GettysbergII Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #38
85. LMAO. It could have been worse, Eloriel. They could have disappeared you.
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Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #38
95. I think you have been very gracious Eloriel. Thankyou! n/t
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MadeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #38
104. I don't know if you read about this at all....
But I read on several websites that would add to this conspiracy-theory that FEMA deliberately sabatoged the Levees.....

It was coming from on the ground witnesses in the area, stating that FEMA personnel were in the area and either something exploded or they sabatoged the levees.

Now I don't know where to go with this theory, but does anyone have any information from any witnesses in the area? :shrug:

Does anyone have any on the ground accounts of what happened in the French quarter? It really would be nice.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #38
126. I'm calling it "malign neglect" aka "Let them eat caca"
Edited on Mon Sep-05-05 12:35 PM by omega minimo
And who needs "weather control" when Big Energy industry writes White House energy policy that perpetuates global warming that exacerbates climate change and monster storms?

:shrug:

Thanks for all you DU, Eloriel. We NEED you

and we :loveya:



(Thanks to EarlG for reposting) :kick:
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-05 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #38
160. Thanks Eloriel. Nice work with the links. n/t
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #38
169. Thanks for starting this thread.
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
43. Links and notes I kept over the past few days (incomplete at best)
May be useful while the search engine is down...others should post their links before we lose them all.

9/4 message from aid worker concerning Laura visit to area
http://hal-law.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/4/124532/7736

9/3
Kanye West criticism:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

'I'M TERRIFIED. I REALLY AM - I FEEL LIKE THE WORLD'S GONE NUTS.'
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nypost/20050903/cm_nypost/39i39...

Nagin just now on CNN:
"i'm trying to get all the resources to get these people help. I'm screaming at the governor; i'm screaming at *, and i won't stop until everyone is safe. the CIA could come in here and wipe me out any minute, but i'm not stopping until everyone is safe."
KOS timeline on our lack of response (IMPORTANT LINK)
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/3/131934/7503

9/2:
World mobilises to aid US victims
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4210264.stm

Geraldo and Shepherd on Fox: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/02.html#a4763

United States of Shame, M.Dowd
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/opinion/03dowd.html

Jabbar Gibson (kid who stole a school bus to save people):
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/topstory2/3334 ...

transcript of Mayor Nagin:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/index...

CNN: Only half of NG equipment left in US.

Read and Weep - FEMA "turned away Police and Doctors" at the stateline
LEESBURG, Va. (AP) - A group of Loudoun County sheriffs deputies heading to Louisiana to help maintain order among hurricane refugees had to turn around at the Virginia border when they couldnt get confirmation from emergency management officials, the Loudoun County sheriff said.
Their attempts to get confirmation from the Federal Emergency Management Agency and Louisiana state officials have gone unanswered over 12 hours.
http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/Web/2005/092005/0902...

Transcripts: Yes, Bush did say we're gonna rebuild Trent Lott's home
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050902/dcf054.html?.v=7
We've got a lot of rebuilding to do. First, we're going to save lives and stabilize the situation. And then we're going to help these communities rebuild. The good news is -- and it's hard for some to see it now -- that out of this chaos is going to come a fantastic Gulf Coast, like it was before. Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house -- he's lost his entire house -- there's going to be a fantastic house. And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch. (Laughter.)

CNN's Jack Cafferty just asked if the arrival of supplies and Bush were a COINCIDENCE

Here's the Nasty Reason for Locking Down NOLA: Quarantine
The germs that cause Cholera and Typhoid are already incubating inside of large numbers of the survivors. There is no way to effectively isolate and treat all of those infected if they were allowed to simply evacuate and disperse in large numbers.

CNN Reporters are carrying guns for protection: just heard they're in a gas line and they've taken up arms to protect themselves.

From Baton Rouge:
We don't' understand why the Red Cross is refusing to feed refugees housed in homes all up and down the state. We are told they must be IN the shelter to have hand outs from the Red Cross - and yet the shelters are full - they can't HANDLE the people. So hundreds of citizens are taking them in - and assistance is being denied to those not in the shelters. The reason given for this - at least at our Red Cross office - is because "regular citizens" might try and take food they are not entitled to - so they can only feed those who are in their shelters.

Chris Matthews to Andrea Mitchell: why didn't a "real executive person" help?
Chris Matthews asked Andrea Mitchell: "I would have thought that someone in the White House, watching what was going on in NOLA, like Andy Card, or someone who's a REAL EXECUTIVE PERSON," and get on the phone and say get this done.

PBS to air NOW program tonight on levees
http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/05/09/ale05128.html

LA governor: No help for Blue governor in red state.
Alabama governor is Repug. He's getting help.

CNN: Big lines for gas

Xavier University ...400 students still trapped ... one dead

<snip>
The storm hit Breton Sound with the fury of a nuclear warhead, pushing a deadly storm surge into Lake Pontchartrain. The water crept to the top of the massive berm that holds back the lake and then spilled over. Nearly 80 percent of New Orleans lies below sea levelmore than eight feet below in placesso the water poured in. A liquid brown wall washed over the brick ranch homes of Gentilly, over the clapboard houses of the Ninth Ward, over the white-columned porches of the Garden District, until it raced through the bars and strip joints on Bourbon Street like the pale rider of the Apocalypse. As it reached 25 feet (eight meters) over parts of the city, people climbed onto roofs to escape it.

Thousands drowned in the murky brew that was soon contaminated by sewage and industrial waste. Thousands more who survived the flood later perished from dehydration and disease as they waited to be rescued. It took two months to pump the city dry, and by then the Big Easy was buried under a blanket of putrid sediment, a million people were homeless, and 50,000 were dead. It was the worst natural disaster in the history of the United States.
-----------

Reading those paragraphs above, it comes as quite a shock to realize that the article is almost a year old. http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/?f...

Biloxi Mayor----"there has been no help. There is a little ice and a little water, there is no food available" Bush just drove through there an hour ago BTW.

How much water has Bush had to drink today?

"I will get back to him" - Condi Refering to help from France

Pleas for Help can be seen written on the streets of Grand Isle, Louisiana http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

A "floatilla of aid" TURNED BACK from New Orleans A group of approximately 1,000 citizens pulling 500 boats left the Acadiana Mall in Lafayette this morning (Weds.) and headed to New Orleans with a police escort from the Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Department. The "flotillia" of trucks pulling boats stretched over five miles. This citizen rescue group was organized by La. State Senator, Gautreaux from Vermilion Parish. The group was comprised of experienced boaters, licensed fishermen and hunters, people who have spent their entire adult life and teenage years on the waterways of Louisiana. http://www.thedeadpelican.com/lawyer.htm

Wash Post:
September 2, 2005; 7:23 AM
NEW ORLEANS -- An explosion jolted residents awake early Friday, illuminating the pre-dawn sky with red and orange flames over the city where corpses rotted along flooded sidewalks and bands of armed thugs thwarted fitful rescue efforts.

Congress was rushing through a $10.5 billion aid package, the Pentagon promised 1,400 National Guardsmen a day to stop the looting and President Bush planned to visit the region. But city officials were seething with anger about what they called a slow federal response following the devastation left by Hurricane Katrina.

A SWAT team drives past flood victims waiting at the Convention Center in New Orleans, Thursday, Sept. 1, 2005. Officials called for a mandatory evacuation of the city, but many resident remained in the city and had to be rescued from flooded homes and hotels and remain in the city awaiting a way out. (AP Photo/Eric Gay) (Eric Gay - AP)
"They don't have a clue what's going on down there," Mayor Ray Nagin told WWL-AM Thursday night.

National Guard not allowing aid into the city
There are supplies sitting in Baton Rouge for the folks in New Orleans, but the National Guard has the city surrounded and is not letting anyone in or out. They are turning away people with supplies, claiming it is too dangerous.
http://neworleans.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/3941.php

NYT: Airlines to Fly Up to 25,000 Refugees Out of New Orleans!

The nation's airlines have been mobilized to fly up to 25,000 refugees out of New Orleans beginning today, under an emergency plan put into effect for the first time by the Department of Homeland Security.

Under the department's national response plan, 15 airlines, including 10 major commercial carriers, will transport up to 25,000 refugees from Louis Armstrong Airport outside New Orleans to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, airlines taking part in the plan said this morning.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/national/nationalspec...

C-SPAN Congressional Black Caucus Angry About FEMA Response

NO mayor on aar affiliate, scathing, heartbreaking (audio)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

N.O. Mayor Nagin: Gov't has left us to die

Bush just said the level of help being received is unacceptable!

Bush on CNN "We are going to help rebuild Trent Lotts house. "

The Bush Speech In Screen Shots From CNN. Check Out The Quotes!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

BLACKWATER mercenaries coming to NOLA to provide "security services"
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/1/222637/6400

Wes Clark: "it took President Bush days to get off his mountain bike"

How "Battle Hardened" Nation Guard are responding: gun point

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor /
"Bigfoot" is a bar manager and DJ on Bourbon Street, and is a local personality and icon in the city. He is a lifelong resident of the city, born and raised. He rode out the storm itself in the Iberville Projects because he knew he would be above any flood waters. Here is his story as told to me moments ago. I took notes while he talked and then I asked some questions:
Three days ago, police and national guard troops told citizens to head toward the Crescent City Connection Bridge to await transportation out of the area. The citizens trekked over to the Convention Center and waited for the buses which they were told would take them to Houston or Alabama or somewhere else, out of this area.
It's been 3 days, and the buses have yet to appear.
Although obviously he has no exact count, he estimates more than 10,000 people are packed into and around and outside the convention center still waiting for the buses. They had no food, no water, and no medicine for the last three days, until today, when the National Guard drove over the bridge above them, and tossed out supplies over the side crashing down to the ground below. Much of the supplies were destroyed from the drop. Many people tried to catch the supplies to protect them before they hit the ground. Some offered to walk all the way around up the bridge and bring the supplies down, but any attempt to approach the police or national guard resulted in weapons being aimed at them.
There are many infants and elderly people among them, as well as many people who were injured jumping out of windows to escape flood water and the like -- all of them in dire straights.
Any attempt to flag down police results in being told to get away at gunpoint. Hour after hour they watch buses pass by filled with people from other areas. Tensions are very high, and there has been at least one murder and several fights. 8 or 9 dead people have been stored in a freezer in the area, and 2 of these dead people are kids.
The people are so desperate that they're doing anything they can think of to impress the authorities enough to bring some buses. These things include standing in single file lines with the eldery in front, women and children next; sweeping up the area and cleaning the windows and anything else that would show the people are not barbarians.

FEMA refusing to give reporter a death toll

National Guard rolling into NOLA

Things in Houston going to hell..deaths on the buses, no toilets in Dome
From a Houston dome blog:
http://blogs.chron.com/domeblog /

Out in the parking lot, dozens of buses filled with more evacuees are waiting to unload. Bryant says Harris County Tax Assessor Paul Bettencourt said as many as 18,000 people may be on the grounds by noon.
A doctor told Bryant some people have died on those buses.
On the Astrodome floor, people sleep in cots, some getting real rest for the first time since taking shelter in New Orleans' Superdome. But a few have been arrested for fighting over those cots.
Volunteers are bringing badly needed supplies to the volunteers, but when they pull into the parking lot, they are often swarmed by the desparate.
It's about 10:30 p.m. and Eric is reporting that people continue to flow into the Astrodome.
It's been less than a day and already the crowds are beginning to take their toll on this gigantic dome turned shelter.
The toilets are overflowing and when Eric went to the restroom he found out only one toilet was flushing.

The blogger in NO:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor /

"Apocalypse Now" "Anarchy in the USA", World Stunned as U.S. Struggles

CNN Headline says it all: "Where's The Help?"

Mayor NO say's "where's the F*cking ships?!"

TOONS: Katrina's Aftermath Edition
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

CNN Poll: Has Bush done enough to help victims of Katrina?

80% NO

N.O mayor sends another SOS----right when chimp is doing photo op

Hastert backtracks on suggestion to bulldoze New Orleans

Why Didn't Bush wear the Flight Suit again??

The results are acceptable says Bush on CNN

Why is Bush* smiling while talking to reporters?

30 truck convey bring food and water to convention center now.

from cnn
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050902/pl_afp/usweatherde ...
Death toll in Louisiana could be above 10,000: US Senator - Yahoo! News
it doesn`t look good

Dennis K. - Gulf looks like it was obliterated by a weapon--- weapon of mass indifference.

New Orleans mayor lashes out at feds
Nagin: 'They are spinning and people are dying' http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.nagin/index.ht...
Laura Bush live on CNN: "Some things are working very, very well...

FEMA donations being routed to Rev. Pat Robertson

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18473

UPS just shut down in Orlando, FL: no gas

National Guard not allowing aid into the city
There are supplies sitting in Baton Rouge for the folks in New Orleans, but the National Guard has the city surrounded and is not letting anyone in or out. They are turning away people with supplies, claiming it is too dangerous.
http://neworleans.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/3941.php

NYT: Airlines to Fly Up to 25,000 Refugees Out of New Orleans!

The nation's airlines have been mobilized to fly up to 25,000 refugees out of New Orleans beginning today, under an emergency plan put into effect for the first time by the Department of Homeland Security.

Under the department's national response plan, 15 airlines, including 10 major commercial carriers, will transport up to 25,000 refugees from Louis Armstrong Airport outside New Orleans to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, airlines taking part in the plan said this morning.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/national/nationalspec...


NO mayor on aar affiliate, scathing, heartbreaking (audio)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

N.O. Mayor Nagin: Gov't has left us to die

Wes Clark: "it took President Bush days to get off his mountain bike"

9/1:
Scott McClellan: "We are NOT requesting international aid." A Canadian reader of Daily Kos reports as follows:

"On tonight's news, CTV (Canadian TV) said that support was offered from Canada. Planes are ready to load with food and medical supplies and a system called "DART" which can provide fresh water and medical supplies is standing by. Department of Homeland Security as well as other U.S. agencies were contacted by the Canadian government requesting permission to provide help. Despite this contact, Canada has not been allowed to fly supplies and personnel to the areas hit by Katrina. So, everything here is grounded. Prime Minister Paul Martin is reportedly trying to speak to President Bush tonight or tomorrow to ask him why the U.S. federal government will not allow aid from Canada into Louisiana and Mississippi. That said, the Canadian Red Cross is reportedly allowed into the area.

Canadian agencies are saying that foreign aid is probably not being permitted into Louisiana and Mississippi because of "mass confusion" at the U.S. federal level in the wake of the storm."

There are jets loaded and ready to go from many countries!

CNN: Press Not Allowed to Talk to the "Refugees" Reporter in Houston Astrodome just stated that they were only allowed to photograph the "refugees" from the fifth tier of the Astrodome, but they are NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK TO ANY OF THE REFUGEES.

NO: Many Thousands Trapped in 2 Hospitals, Convention Center and Superdome
Two New Orleans hospitals plead for help

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9159903 /

Doctors at two desperately crippled hospitals in New Orleans called The Associated Press Thursday morning pleading for rescue, saying they were nearly out of food and power and had been forced to move patients to higher floors to escape looters.

call from marriot on canal...armed civilians surrounding police officers

CNN's Spellman report -"Poor cannot get on the buses(superdome)"
Says the hotel guests and well to do are getting on the buses to be evacuated from the Superdome, and the poor people on the street cannot get on the buses.


Video of Conditions inside NO Convention center so Shocking/Can't be Aired
Report on MSNBC Devastation,
chairs, corpses lined up against the walls...Babies dying, People dying of dehydration, no food...people told to come there...walked in water to shelter and there was nothing there...no one is in charge...Photographer said photographs so shocking he could barely take them... Anchor said the pictures are so shocking about the people and conditions MSNBC couldn't air them

15 to 20, 000 People trapped in NO Convention Center. Mayor urges March

Woman Stuck in Hotel in the FQ: "No Police, No NG, NO FEMA Nothing!"

Can we house NOLA refugees in mothballed military bases?
Here in Seattle we have 2 closed installations; Fort Lawton & Sand Point Naval Station, where military housing sits empty.

No water/food/medicine drops because THERE AREN'T ANY?
GOOD LORD! An emergency session of Congress has been called to they can authorize "immediate costs" for FEMA. Is this why there have been no air drops of water, food, medicine etc - BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ANY TO DROP?!?!?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20 ...


WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration intends to seek $10 billion to cover immediate relief needs in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, congressional officials said Thursday, and lawmakers decided to break off their summer vacation to approve the request by the weekend.

Several officials said the $10 billion would cover immediate costs for the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the government's front-line responder in cases of natural disasters.

Americans offering temp homes to NO homeless.
http://neworleans.craigslist.org/hhh /

FACTS: Bush was told about NO , he funded a study to confirm & then CUT $$

Bush fired Republican who criticized hurricane funding cuts

"I'm not saying it wouldn't still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have," said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps' budget."

Dumbest Bush Quote About Katrina Disaster So Far
President Bush flew over the ravaged city and parts of Mississippi's hurricane-blasted coastline in Air force One. Turning to his aides, he said: "It's totally wiped out,...it's devastating, it's got to be doubly devastating on the ground."

Legendary Musican "Fats" Domino Among The Missing in NOLA

Biloxi Newspaper Slams Relief Effort, Begs for Help
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_di...

Video of Biloxi mechanic: "Bush shouldn't be the president no more" http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/01.html#a4727

Cafferty: "...never seen anything as badly bungled as (hurricane relief)"
CNN's Jack Cafferty just talked about viewer response to the question, "How do you rate the federal government's response to the hurricane?". He said that there hasn't been a single positive response, and that he personally has never seen anything as badly bungled as the government's response to this disaster.


"A fly-by aboard Air Force One is NOT leadership."
Admiral Crocker (couldn't catch his first name), on the Ed Schultz show, just now.



NY Times: Bush Gave "Worst Speech of His Life"

Still blogging from NO: http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor /

(202) 456-1111 Call the White House & Demand His Resignation

Just in from AP New Orleans Mayor SOS!!!!
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/hurricanes_and_tropical_ ...

AP - 19 minutes ago
NEW ORLEANS - Fights and fires broke out, corpses lay out in the open, and rescue helicopters and law enforcement officers were shot at as flooded-out New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday. "This is a desperate SOS," the mayor said. Anger mounted across the ruined city, with thousands of storm victims increasingly hungry, desperate and tired of waiting for buses to take them out. "We are out here like pure animals. We don't have help," the Rev. Issac Clark, 68, said outside the New Orleans Convention Center, where corpses lay in the open and he and other evacuees complained that they were dropped off and given nothing no food, no water, no medicine.

CNN reporter verifies this seems to be accurate except he isn't sure about the rapes.

volunteers to help in the astrodome told to take course on 9-7???

bush: "Don't buy gas if you don't need it. " as he boards Air Force One


FEMA director just blamed the people who "chose" to stay in NO

9/1:
Recap of Tony Zumbado on MSNBC:
* People journeyed for days in chest deep water and followed the instructions of the Government by doing so. When they arrived at the convention center for "help" it was non existent.

* Babies starving/dying of dehydration, dead bodies lined up along the walls, and in spite of it all people are STILL patiently waiting for help.

* People are NOT looting but taking food/water for survival.

* It's NOT dangerous to approach the convention center - people are far more calm then they were after hurricane Andrew.

* Horrible scene, beyond imagination.

Check out Olbermann later for more.

So very sad. Where are the helicopters with food/water rations!?

Snip from MSNBC here:

"They were told to go to the convention center. They did, they've been behaving. It's unbelievable how organized they are, how supportive they are of each other. They have not started any mles, any riots ... they just want food and support. And what I saw there I've never seen in this country." ~ Tony Zumbado

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9160710 /



Local Audio NOLA 9/1:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Scott McClellan: "We are NOT requesting international aid." A Canadian reader of Daily Kos reports as follows:

"On tonight's news, CTV (Canadian TV) said that support was offered from Canada. Planes are ready to load with food and medical supplies and a system called "DART" which can provide fresh water and medical supplies is standing by. Department of Homeland Security as well as other U.S. agencies were contacted by the Canadian government requesting permission to provide help. Despite this contact, Canada has not been allowed to fly supplies and personnel to the areas hit by Katrina. So, everything here is grounded. Prime Minister Paul Martin is reportedly trying to speak to President Bush tonight or tomorrow to ask him why the U.S. federal government will not allow aid from Canada into Louisiana and Mississippi. That said, the Canadian Red Cross is reportedly allowed into the area.

Canadian agencies are saying that foreign aid is probably not being permitted into Louisiana and Mississippi because of "mass confusion" at the U.S. federal level in the wake of the storm."

There are jets loaded and ready to go from many countries!

CNN: Press Not Allowed to Talk to the "Refugees" Reporter in Houston Astrodome just stated that they were only allowed to photograph the "refugees" from the fifth tier of the Astrodome, but they are NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK TO ANY OF THE REFUGEES.

NO: Many Thousands Trapped in 2 Hospitals, Convention Center and Superdome
Two New Orleans hospitals plead for help

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9159903 /

Doctors at two desperately crippled hospitals in New Orleans called The Associated Press Thursday morning pleading for rescue, saying they were nearly out of food and power and had been forced to move patients to higher floors to escape looters.

call from marriot on canal...armed civilians surrounding police officers

CNN's Spellman report -"Poor cannot get on the buses(superdome)"
Says the hotel guests and well to do are getting on the buses to be evacuated from the Superdome, and the poor people on the street cannot get on the buses.


Video of Conditions inside NO Convention center so Shocking/Can't be Aired
Report on MSNBC Devastation,
chairs, corpses lined up against the walls...Babies dying, People dying of dehydration, no food...people told to come there...walked in water to shelter and there was nothing there...no one is in charge...Photographer said photographs so shocking he could barely take them... Anchor said the pictures are so shocking about the people and conditions MSNBC couldn't air them

15 to 20, 000 People trapped in NO Convention Center. Mayor urges March

Woman Stuck in Hotel in the FQ: "No Police, No NG, NO FEMA Nothing!"

Can we house NOLA refugees in mothballed military bases?
Here in Seattle we have 2 closed installations; Fort Lawton & Sand Point Naval Station, where military housing sits empty.

No water/food/medicine drops because THERE AREN'T ANY?
GOOD LORD! An emergency session of Congress has been called to they can authorize "immediate costs" for FEMA. Is this why there have been no air drops of water, food, medicine etc - BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ANY TO DROP?!?!?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20 ...


WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration intends to seek $10 billion to cover immediate relief needs in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, congressional officials said Thursday, and lawmakers decided to break off their summer vacation to approve the request by the weekend.

Several officials said the $10 billion would cover immediate costs for the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the government's front-line responder in cases of natural disasters.

Americans offering temp homes to NO homeless.
http://neworleans.craigslist.org/hhh /

FACTS: Bush was told about NO , he funded a study to confirm & then CUT $$

Bush fired Republican who criticized hurricane funding cuts

"I'm not saying it wouldn't still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have," said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps' budget."

Dumbest Bush Quote About Katrina Disaster So Far
President Bush flew over the ravaged city and parts of Mississippi's hurricane-blasted coastline in Air force One. Turning to his aides, he said: "It's totally wiped out,...it's devastating, it's got to be doubly devastating on the ground."

Legendary Musican "Fats" Domino Among The Missing in NOLA

Biloxi Newspaper Slams Relief Effort, Begs for Help
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_di...

Video of Biloxi mechanic: "Bush shouldn't be the president no more" http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/01.html#a4727

Cafferty: "...never seen anything as badly bungled as (hurricane relief)"
CNN's Jack Cafferty just talked about viewer response to the question, "How do you rate the federal government's response to the hurricane?". He said that there hasn't been a single positive response, and that he personally has never seen anything as badly bungled as the government's response to this disaster.


"A fly-by aboard Air Force One is NOT leadership."
Admiral Crocker (couldn't catch his first name), on the Ed Schultz show, just now.



NY Times: Bush Gave "Worst Speech of His Life"

Still blogging from NO: http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor /

(202) 456-1111 Call the White House & Demand His Resignation

Thu Sep 01st 2005, 01:55 PM ET
CHRONOLOGY....Here's a timeline that outlines the fate of both FEMA and flood control projects in New Orleans under the Bush administration. Read it and weep:



January 2001: Bush appoints Joe Allbaugh, a crony from Texas, as head of FEMA. Allbaugh has no previous experience in disaster management.

April 2001: Budget Director Mitch Daniels announces the Bush administration's goal of privatizing much of FEMA's work. In May, Allbaugh confirms that FEMA will be downsized: "Many are concerned that federal disaster assistance may have evolved into both an oversized entitlement program...." he said. "Expectations of when the federal government should be involved and the degree of involvement may have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level."

2001: FEMA designates a major hurricane hitting New Orleans as one of the three "likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing this country."

December 2002: After less than two years at FEMA, Allbaugh announces he is leaving to start up a consulting firm that advises companies seeking to do business in Iraq. He is succeeded by his deputy, Michael Brown, who, like Allbaugh, has no previous experience in disaster management.

March 2003: FEMA is downgraded from a cabinet level position and folded into the Department of Homeland Security. Its mission is refocused on fighting acts of terrorism.

2003: Under its new organization chart within DHS, FEMA's preparation and planning functions are reassigned to a new Office of Preparedness and Response. FEMA will henceforth focus only on response and recovery.

Summer 2004: FEMA denies Louisiana's pre-disaster mitigation funding requests. Says Jefferson Parish flood zone manager Tom Rodrigue: "You would think we would get maximum consideration....This is what the grant program called for. We were more than qualified for it."

June 2004: The Army Corps of Engineers budget for levee construction in New Orleans is slashed. Jefferson Parish emergency management chiefs Walter Maestri comments: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay."

June 2005: Funding for the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is cut by a record $71.2 million. One of the hardest-hit areas is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was created after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson, Orleans and St. Tammany parishes.

August 2005: While New Orleans is undergoing a slow motion catastrophe, Bush mugs for the cameras, cuts a cake for John McCain, plays the guitar for Mark Wills, delivers an address about V-J day, and continues with his vacation. When he finally gets around to acknowledging the scope of the unfolding disaster, he delivers only a photo op on Air Force One and a flat, defensive, laundry list speech in the Rose Garden.

A crony with no relevant experience was installed as head of FEMA. Mitigation budgets for New Orleans were slashed even though it was known to be one of the top three risks in the country. FEMA was deliberately downsized as part of the Bush administration's conservative agenda. After DHS was created, FEMA's preparation and planning functions were taken away.

Actions have consequences. No one could predict that a hurricane the size of Katrina would hit this year, but the slow federal response when it did happen was no accident. It was the result of four years of deliberate Republican policy and budget choices. It's the Bush administration in a nutshell.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/20 ...


Wa Po Katrina pics 8/30

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/gallery/20...

MSNBC pics:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9106827/displaymode/1107/s/...

video from 8/30:
http://nebe-b.org/wgno26flyover.asx

White people find...
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830...

Black man loots...
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530

Slides: wwltv 8/30:
http://www.wwltv.com /

Molly Ivins blasts Bush
http://www.workingforchange.com/printitem.cfm?itemid=19...
***********************************************************************
Headlines on DU 8/30 (I didn't keep the links)

CNN just now: Mississippi "borrowing" 800 Natl Guard from Alabama

NYT blasts Bush

CNN: Coast Guard using black paint on the houses with dead people
red paint on the houses with injured: Hancock County, Miss.

People are drowning,starving,forced to drink sewage...

How many of the LA national guard are in Iraq right now? 3000 deployed to Iraq Oct 2004.

CNN just reported that one guy just killed himself inside the SuperDome. (He jumped)

Katrina Louisiana Watch: Death in Dome, Boats Needed, Bagging Levee

BUSH you piece of shit.. WE NEED THE NATIONAL GUARD

"Looters will be treated RUTHLESSLY" - Gov of MS, Barbour

cnn saying "hundred's killed' in MS--Biluxi just now they are reporting

Mayor Nagin: Twin Spans bridge IS TOTALLY DESTROYED: Slidell, LA

WWL-TV - Martial Law declared in Jefferson Parish, Timeline given:
In one week, residents only will be allowed (with proper id) to return and pickup essentials only, then asked to leave and not return for a month
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beetbox Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Well done-Saved
'Today I saw 5,000 African-Americans on Highway 10, desperate, perishing, dehydrating, babies crying - it looked like the hold of a slave ship. It's so ugly and obvious. The issue of race as a factor will not go away.'

But as culpable, criminal and loathsome as the Bush Administration is, it is only the apotheosis of an overarching trend in American society that has been gathering force for decades: the destruction of the idea of a common good, a public sector whose benefits and responsibilities are shared by all, and directed by the consent of the governed. For more than 30 years, the corporate Right has waged a relentless and highly focused campaign against the common good, seeking to atomize individuals into isolated 'consumer units' whose political energies kept deliberately underinformed by the ubiquitous corporate media can be diverted into emotionalized 'hot button' issues (gay marriage, school prayer, intelligent design, flag burning, welfare queens, drugs, porn, abortion, teen sex, commie subversion, terrorist threats, etc., etc.) that never threaten Big Money's bottom line.


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MadeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #46
106. To the top. nt
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buzzsaw_23 Donating Member (631 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #43
178. Tons of Good Info Here n/t
"Many Days Pass And People Die Very Much"
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Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
44. If you didn't like the weather control posts you should have limited
your censorship to them.

It would have saved you a lot of trouble.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
48. I'm sorry Earl. I find it extremely ironic that people purporting
to effect democratic change are censoring discussion of ANY topics and when I say people, I am not pointing fingers at the DU Admin, but at a certain element that started, right around Primaries time, changing the direction of this site to make it more palatable to the mainstream.

The mainstream, the close-minded people who never bother asking 'why' and 'how' have NEVER, not ONCE in history ever effected change. What do we want? Status quo?

Who cares what the mother-of-all-WMDs-in-Iraq lie pushers like the New York Times think? Or what the gullible idiots who believe their lies think? We are fighting the corporate media and their lies- what kind of a fight is it when we defer to *their* mindset and try to impress them with oh how so reasonable we are. The NYT can kiss my a** and they can kiss it twice, as can all the people who think it's not news until they've either read it in the papers or heard it on CNN.

We have thought control in this country. We have a media that outdoes any media in the worst dictatorships. The Soviets were in AWE of our media and how it kept the people in line.

Scientists have been talking about Operation Popeye, the weather control ops that flooded the Vietnamese Rice Fields, ever since Jack Anderson exposed it, but DU isn't ready to talk about it? That is indeed alarming.

What do you want DU to be? A gathering of status quo supporting Bush-hating Dems or a gathering of thoughtful people discussing important issues and trying to effect meaningful change? What was your vision 4 years ago? Whatever your vision, I hope you realize that the status-quo crowd is not going to effect any change for you. That status quo crowd was brilliantly summarized by Sparkly earlier:

    "Don't point fingers. Don't play the blamegame. Don't politicize this."
    "Don't criticize Chimpy BEFORE he screws up -- pushing massive tax cuts, ignoring counterterrorism warnings, banging war drums, vacationing during a storm -- because maybe it'll all work out fine, give it a chance, you don't have a crystal ball!"

    "Don't criticize Chimpy DURING his screw ups, because now is not the time when we're in the middle of a crisis -- it doesn't help the people who are struggling, it undermines morale, it's divisive when we should all be pulling together!"

    "Don't criticize Chimpy AFTER his screw ups, because we need to move on and get over it -- besides, it wasn't his fault, he didn't know, Democrats are just trying to politice this, and we have other things to deal with right now."


And we've got that very crowd, full of trolls, moles and operatives, here, slowly suffocating this site, like a bunch of weeds overtaking ones front lawn.

Neither the NYT nor the Democratic Party are ever going to respect this site. You know why? Because they don't respect the PEOPLE; they are AFRAID what the people will think when armed with information.

They do not respect us now and they will never respect us. Why aggravate posters over that? Elad programmed an ignore poster function and a hide thread function. Is that not enough? We need to shut people up also and just zap threads, posts into oblivion?

And one more thing since I'm on a roll. We seriously, very seriously need a term limit on mods.

Thank you for taking the time to painstakingly recreate Eloriel's links. I appreciate the difficult task of running this board but seriously, it's time to decide in what direction this board is headed.

Neither this board nor the Democratic Party can pretend to represent the people they censor views and voices you don't like. And in three years it will be too late to play nice and ask for a solidarnosc' of a voting bloc. The pain of these last few years has to deeply seared the soul for that.

Your vision EarlG. What was your vision? What was your vision when you, Skinner and Elad stood shivering at that inauguration with your little sign asking people to band together here and get that bastard out? Please remember that time and ask yourself who's going to help you get there. Not the timid, quivering ones... And certainly not the under-the-rader trolls and moles. It's the brave people like Eloriel who know a conspiracy theory when they see one and aren't afraid to talk about it.

Thank you for reading my rant.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. ...
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Well put, Tinoire, and not condescending at all.
Edited on Sun Sep-04-05 08:04 PM by LoZoccolo
Thank you for giving us your analysis of the past and vision for the future of DU, presented in a way that is thought-provoking and not rude and presumptuous or anything like that. I can see that you appreciate the difficult task of running this board, as you put it, because we know that message boards are run by the people on them, and you have given us a strong direction in which to go forward that can only come from we the people, who don't have a "bias" in how to direct the board because we had no part in setting it up or coming up with the purpose for it in the first place (following that would be a bias in direction).

I do think though, that we should strengthen each other with criticism and self-criticism, so please allow me to criticize your post that you have just made in which you say:

The NYT can kiss my a** and they can kiss it twice, as can all the people who think it's not news until they've either read it in the papers or heard it on CNN.


You go far, but not far enough, by not speaking your mind here; you should not put assterisks to censor yourself when effecting change such as this, but should spell out words like "ass" if you feel like it (but only if you feel like it because that again would be bias if you didn't really feel like it). Just giving you criticism to stay strong in these times of change. Or do you not want REAL change?

Sorry if that last sentence seemed strong, but we have to keep each other strong as I said.

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Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. For the record, I agree. n/t
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. LoZocolo Thank you for your concerned criticism
Edited on Sun Sep-04-05 08:56 PM by Tinoire
but could you go more in depth as to how spelling out the word ass makes one any stonger?

I have enough faith in the intelligence of readers to figure out that a** is ass ;)

Do you really thing a few asterisks to avoid offending the genteel eyes of certain people is going to derail any change? You see, this way, should the NYT succomb to any uncontrollable urge to print this thread, they'll have no excuse for altering even one character of my post. They can reproduce it intact.

With humble gratitude for your touching concern for my strength. Fear not please, I can uproot mighty oaks with my teeth and bend like the bamboo when necessary.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. Well, I've been worried about this thing about strong messages lately.
Edited on Sun Sep-04-05 09:05 PM by LoZoccolo
The other day I realized that Kerry said "fucked" in an interview with Rolling Stone, I was remembering the primary like that, and I kind-of thought it was funny that he was trying to be like Howard Dean or something because he was behind in the polls...and then I realized wait a minute, Howard Dean didn't say the word "fucked" in an interview, so Howard Dean wasn't even trying to be Howard Dean in a sense. Then I got worried; when is Howard Dean finally going to go ahead and start using a curse word during an interview like that? We need him to be strong as that for people to vote for him, otherwise the base might not turn out for him in 2008 and we won't have the kind of leader who would ask questions about the points brought up in Eloriel's thread which everyone would go for and make us win.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #64
80. Have no fears Zoccollo
& don't worry your tired head about such complicated matters. There will always be a status DLC pansy in the race trying to sound like a real leader by saying impressive words like fuck and ass for you to vote for. Strength after all is in the obscenities or something vapid like that; it must be true because I read it right here at DU. Of course that comment may have rightfully been deleted by now as it would be MOST embarrassing if the NYT were to use it to shoe the rest of the country what kind of loony things sometimes get posted here.

But on this note, I have to bid you adieu... You can have the last mocking word if you want. There's been a staggering catastrophe in this country and yet another unforgivable crime committed against people of color (you know, the ones who don't deserve reparations) so I must go... There are a few matters on my plate, more important, more pressing, than getting on a merry-go-round of mockery right now.

:hi:

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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #64
82. Loco Z
anyone got a decoder ring for this :shrug:

peace
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #82
91. LOL!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! :rofl:

Sci-Oops! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! :rofl:

Thanks for making my day! :D

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #64
125. The base won't turn out for Dean in 2008. He isn't running. He coundn't
get the nomination in 2008 anymore than in 2004. People didn't vote for him. All ballyhoo and no votes. He pandered to the kids and they didn't vote for him. That is the sad truth.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #125
165. Man.... That Went SO Right Over Your Head... Huh ???
:rofl: :wow: :rofl:
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #48
56. And remember that asking people if they don't want real change...
...is not at all like when people go around asking other people if they hate America. There is loads of difference, so don't let them silence you!
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #48
66. I was going to post something not nearly as good, so if you don't mind,
Edited on Sun Sep-04-05 09:07 PM by Karmadillo
I'll just tag along with your excellent comments.
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #48
79. Thank you so much for saying that.
Now is NOT the time to tip-toe.
The other side is using live ammo against us, yet we're still trying to be inoffensive?!
It's far beyond time for everybody to wake up and open their eyes to this horror-of-a-government -- and have the guts, and quite frankly the decency, to say what's true.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #48
83. That was an EXCELLENT rant! Thanks for expressing a view I support 100%.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #48
84. wow. this is beautiful. what a wonderful appeal to common sense.
thank you.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #48
87. Thank you ,Tinoire for cutting through the BS as usual....
I couldn't agree more or have said it better......

This board has changed incredibly since the beginning...mostly since the primaries & election farce
...
What the HELL happened to DEOMCRATIC UNDERGROUND??!!

So now we have to kiss the a** of the MSM and anyone else who happens to be trolling here and not post outside of expected and accepted paramaeters acceptable to.....??

Bless people like Eloriel and Tinoire and the others who have the guts to ask questions and then DIG for the answers.


"What do you want DU to be? A gathering of status quo supporting Bush-hating Dems or a gathering of thoughtful people discussing important issues and trying to effect meaningful change? "
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #48
96. Cheers!
"Your vision EarlG. What was your vision? What was your vision when you, Skinner and Elad stood shivering at that inauguration with your little sign asking people to band together here and get that bastard out? Please remember that time and ask yourself who's going to help you get there. Not the timid, quivering ones... And certainly not the under-the-rader trolls and moles. It's the brave people like Eloriel who know a conspiracy theory when they see one and aren't afraid to talk about it."

Right on, T!
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #48
97. kick
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #48
98. Tinoire, YOU ROCK....................
I've been gone for a few months. I am always delighted to read/see you...but THIS is everything I and many other's feel.

My mouth is agape and my spirits soar with your piece. Gawd, am I EVER glad I know YOU. I was losing hope of ever seeing ANY change in attitudes or society but, with people like you...HOPE IS ALIVE again.

I'm afraid I do not know what transpired to bring about this particular thread, but when I saw your name I had to look and boy am I jumping for joy!!!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Bless bless bless YOU..... :hug: SB
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #48
108. Excellent, Tinoire.... Thanks for saying that.
:thumbsup:
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JackieO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #48
168. Word up, Tinoire.
Thanks for having the patience and clarity to spell it out.

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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #48
173. Damn. Now that's a rant worth keeping. copy, paste, save...
:yourock: :applause: :patriot:
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
57. "hosting discussions about weather control any time soon"
What the heck is going on here? Has everybody gone bonkers?

and there I was thinking I had came up with some crackpot theories that every once in while :rofl:
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #57
74. US policies DO affect the weather. Our policies are guaranteeing that
global warming will become increasingly destructive. Did they sit around and seed the clouds for Katrina...probably not. (I am not 100% sure of this however after seeing their callous disregard for the lives of the people in the Superdome.)However, their policies to ignore sound science, retard alternative energy, hamper population control and deregulate the worst polluters have sown the seeds for this and the forthcoming disasters.
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Tuesday_Morning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
67. thanks, everybody, for this thread n/t
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
68. I've been told by a lobbyist that's tuned into blogs, etc
that there is a concerted effort to discredit them now, with funding from the right wing - and not just trolls, I mean BANKROLLED "perseption management" folks like H20man refers to..

They are going to infiltrate in such a manner as we've yet to see, they have no other option as blogs are the New Media with communities just like DU that love to research, CNN, FOX and others can't hire or pay enough people to do the research that web communities do for the love of truth.

Even Satan realised that you have to add an element of truth to something to make it fly.

We need to remember folks that have been around a long time, just like EarlG on the DU and Buzzflash, Bartcop, TalkingPoints, you know who they are and of course, Takebackthemedia.com for content, etc..
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. I have seen this firsthand, my friend.
Contact me offline if you want to see what they tried to do to slander me!
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. I hope that you do not think that I am trying to slander you. I know that
you are tops, as are all of the people who have done so much to make this site strong. If anything comes of all of this, I hope that it will be the development of a strategy to cope with the forthcoming onslaught.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Nonononono! Not you!
Not even anybody here.

The Ratwingers have been trying for a couple of years.

And they have a couple of pretend Liberals in their employ to do the job.

The ugliness really hit while I was trying to defend Andy Stephenson.

They tried to slander me with my own sex life, forgetting that I am out about being bisexual and kinky... And they tried to slander me about my political activism, alleging dirty tricks. They are good at spinning a mix of facts and shit they made up into something that sounds awful.

But actually, I find it funny!
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. I am glad you can still have a sence of humor.
Must be a really twisted sence of humor by now! :hug:
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. Oh, my sense of humor was twisted before this... Long before!
But I promise you this; They have not discouraged me from working in every way and with every tool I can command to destroy them utterly. Funniest thing is that, when it happens, they will likely not even know that I was behind it. And that suits me fine.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #76
92. "And they have a couple of pretend Liberals in their employ to do the job"
Yep, and I am watching them like a hawk!

Nothin' wrong with being kinky. ;) Today is the "Day of Decadence" (we always celebrate on Labor Day weekend) in New Orleans, though only a dozen poor souls are there to celebrate. I propose (hopefully you will see this) we celebrate it here, on behalf of we displaced "regulars." :D

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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #75
121. A suggestion
This is a bit half baked, but here goes.

The problem: american population successfully brainwashed by deliberate psychological warfare/propaganda barrage from Cabal controlled MSM. Their basic tool is the dissemination of disinformation 'memes' to confuse and divert the population in order to maintain control.

Here on DU we see a mixture of both deliberate and unintentional propagation of the disinformation memes. Trolls and operatives spread memes on a regular basis, typically using various forms of indirection as a way of avoiding outing.

Solution framework: one obvious way to stop meme dissemination is to simply censor all posts that propagate the meme. This begs the question of which ideas are disinformation memes and is of course censorship, which is an odious idea to begin with although we already have quite a bit of it here to start with.

The first problem is 'disinfo-meme identification'. In the case of NOLA the disinfo-meme was the bad looter meme. Having a fixed set of taboo subjects did no good, as of course bad-looter was not in the mix. So what is needed is realtime recognition that the MSM has been given its marching orders and is acting in lockstep to confuse and divert the population. DU needs a counter-psyops committee that can decide on a timely basis what the heck the MSM is up to and advise moderators how to react.

The second part is just how to react to and counter memes. I personally find censorship odious, but I am not sure what else to do. I'm open to suggestions. Ideally the best defense against this dark art is the truth, but frequently the truth is not so clear.

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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #121
123. I hope that it doesn't come to that. We can sll take responsibility for
shooting down crap.
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Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #121
170. If it comes to that it is the end of DU....
The way to counter disinformation is to post a convincing counter argument. That is how free speech and democracy work!

You don't say "We can't discuss that because I say so!"

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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #170
172. Oh please
spare me - we already have censorship all over the place here. You cannot say this or that, this subject is taboo, that one gets moved into some ghetto. All I am saying is that if we are going to have censorship anyway, lets have intelligent censorship that responds in realtime to the Cabal's propaganda machine and shuts off the intentional and unintention propaganda catapulting here on DU.

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Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #172
174. You're right Warren... lets all just turn Fox back on...
What were we thinking there?
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #174
175. that is not what I am saying
read the rules. There are taboo subjects. We already have censorship. I hate censorship. What I am saying is that as long as we have moderators and censorship lets at least have intelligent censorship realtime-responsive cesnosrship that refuses to allow DU to be used as part of the disinformation/psy-ops confusion weapon that is keeping us all in thrall.

But you are refusing to get it and this conversation is going nowhere. Oh well...
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #68
93. Very true.
Sites such as DU are being targeted because they are outlets for the truth. This is no mystery, and this isn't paranoia .... and it isn't the long arm of coincidence, wrenching itself out of socket. It is, plain and simply, the truth about political/cultural discourse is our complex modern society.

The thread that provided the source of this little debate was not a danger to the stability of DU. Neither was the thread of mine that a person asks about (see: Me's question, above), which was likewise butchered.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
88. Thanks for putting this back and condensing it....
To me, this is what DU is all about....people asking some tough questions and then searching for the answers (if indeed there are any to be found.)



Thanks EarlG....(((hug)))
DR

PS I really think we should pursue some of these "conspiracy theories", only drop the word "conspiracy". Who started with the ridicule of those people asking these questions anyway?? didn't used to be like that here.....
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
99. add the phone line cut in Jefferson posts - find them alll and put here
Edited on Mon Sep-05-05 07:37 AM by 28erl
We need to collect the phone lines cut and also communications jammed to this thread

here is one eluding to it
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
100. thank you..... for this and for everything
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
101. another link compiling FEMA blocking help
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #101
128. pres of jefferson parish - keeping body count low
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #128
129. aug 27th request was put out per atrios
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #128
130. more on keeping the body count down
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #101
140. timeline leading up to disaster and * eating cake and playing
guitar and not doing what needed to be done

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #140
141. if cheney was not on vacation - since * does not know what to do
would things have been different

* brain was on vacation too
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #101
164. force people out - bulldoze them and build homes for rich
people are being forced out - even in french quarter where electricity is on - this poor people were homeowners, land owners - saying they won't be coming back - also people saying land will be cheap - there is something rotten in denmark

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050502/klein

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #101
166. fema assigned firefighters etc to hand out flyers with fema phone number
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
102. asking for boats - lets see what happens - since they turned
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
103. more links blocking aid
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
105. more on this - killed by contempt
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
107. more areas of NO being blocked
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #107
109. * SR making fun of whole situation in Baton Rouge fundraiser
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #107
110. power struggle is why * did not send aid
* wanted to take over the state -
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #107
111. BFEE same for both katrina and andrew
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #111
115. H clinton wants a task force to investigate
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #107
112. admin was arguing for fedralizing debate between the Pres, VP, Chertoff, R
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #112
113. no one in charge
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #113
116. military controlling communication channels and blocking others
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #112
137. so are they wanting to take the land of the poor for the rich
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #107
138. bush photo ops are a disaster
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #138
139. more about blanco hiring old fema director
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-05 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #107
163. thread listing help that fema rejected
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
114. kicky
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
117. Ignore Dupe Sorry EOM.
Edited on Mon Sep-05-05 11:15 AM by Warren Stupidity
I find MIHOP (weather control) in this case silly/stupid. Is LIHOP permitted? How about MIWOP (made it worse on purpose) as MIWOP is pretty much obvious and indisputible?

While we are on the subject of censorship I am pissed shitless that the moderators allowed the bad looter meme to spread here without any effort I could see to put a stop to it. Conspiracy threads were shut down all over the place but the official propaganda was allowed to spread without any constraint at all. Why?
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
118. So what are the rules now?
I find MIHOP (weather control) in this case silly/stupid. Is LIHOP permitted? How about MIWOP (made it worse on purpose) as MIWOP is pretty much obvious and indisputible?

While we are on the subject of censorship I am pissed shitless that the moderators allowed the bad looter meme to spread here without any effort I could see to put a stop to it. Conspiracy threads were shut down all over the place but the official propaganda was allowed to spread without any constraint at all. Why?

Finally, what can we do about the uselessness of this board under crisis conditions? Level-3 is where we go whenever things are bad and the board becomes useless as it is pretty much impossible to follow a thread, research other threads, etc.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
119. Well the UNITED STATES SENATE is busy doing it EarlG
"but we are not going to be hosting discussions about weather control any time soon on Democratic Underground."

109th CONGRESS
1st Session

S. 517

To establish the Weather Modification Operations and Research Board, and for other purposes.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

March 3, 2005

Mrs. HUTCHISON introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation

A BILL

To establish the Weather Modification Operations and Research Board, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Weather Modification Research and Technology Transfer Authorization Act of 2005'.

SEC. 2. PURPOSE.

It is the purpose of this Act to develop and implement a comprehensive and coordinated national weather modification policy and a national cooperative Federal and State program of weather modification research and development.

SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) BOARD- The term `Board' means the Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board.

(2) EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR- The term `Executive Director' means the Executive Director of the Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board.

(3) RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT- The term `research and development' means theoretical analysis, exploration, experimentation, and the extension of investigative findings and theories of scientific or technical nature into practical application for experimental and demonstration purposes, including the experimental production and testing of models, devices, equipment, materials, and processes.

(4) WEATHER MODIFICATION- The term `weather modification' means changing or controlling, or attempting to change or control, by artificial methods the natural development of atmospheric cloud forms or precipitation forms which occur in the troposphere.

SEC. 4. WEATHER MODIFICATION ADVISORY AND RESEARCH BOARD ESTABLISHED.

(a) IN GENERAL- There is established in the Department of Commerce the Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board.

(b) MEMBERSHIP-

(1) IN GENERAL- The Board shall consist of 11 members appointed by the Secretary of Commerce, of whom--

(A) at least 1 shall be a representative of the American Meteorological Society;

(B) at least 1 shall be a representative of the American Society of Civil Engineers;

(C) at least 1 shall be a representative of the National Academy of Sciences;

(D) at least 1 shall be a representative of the National Center for Atmospheric Research of the National Science Foundation;

(E) at least 2 shall be representatives of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration of the Department of Commerce;

(F) at least 1 shall be a representative of institutions of higher education or research institutes; and

(G) at least 1 shall be a representative of a State that is currently supporting operational weather modification projects.

(2) TENURE- A member of the Board serves at the pleasure of the Secretary of Commerce.

(3) VACANCIES- Any vacancy on the Board shall be filled in the same manner as the original appointment.

(b) ADVISORY COMMITTEES- The Board may establish advisory committees to advise the Board and to make recommendations to the Board concerning legislation, policies, administration, research, and other matters.

(c) INITIAL MEETING- Not later than 30 days after the date on which all members of the Board have been appointed, the Board shall hold its first meeting.

(d) MEETINGS- The Board shall meet at the call of the Chair.

(e) QUORUM- A majority of the members of the Board shall constitute a quorum, but a lesser number of members may hold hearings.

(f) CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR- The Board shall select a Chair and Vice Chair from among its members.

SEC. 5. DUTIES OF THE BOARD.

(a) PROMOTION OF RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT- In order to assist in expanding the theoretical and practical knowledge of weather modification, the Board shall promote and fund research and development, studies, and investigations with respect to--

(1) improved forecast and decision-making technologies for weather modification operations, including tailored computer workstations and software and new observation systems with remote sensors; and

(2) assessments and evaluations of the efficacy of weather modification, both purposeful (including cloud-seeding operations) and inadvertent (including downwind effects and anthropogenic effects).

(b) FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE- Unless the use of the money is restricted or subject to any limitations provided by law, the Board shall use amounts in the Weather Modification Research and Development Fund--

(1) to pay its expenses in the administration of this Act, and

(2) to provide for research and development with respect to weather modifications by grants to, or contracts or cooperative arrangements, with public or private agencies.

(c) REPORT- The Board shall submit to the Secretary biennially a report on its findings and research results.

SEC. 6. POWERS OF THE BOARD.

(a) STUDIES, INVESTIGATIONS, AND HEARINGS- The Board may make any studies or investigations, obtain any information, and hold any hearings necessary or proper to administer or enforce this Act or any rules or orders issued under this Act.

(b) PERSONNEL- The Board may employ, as provided for in appropriations Acts, an Executive Director and other support staff necessary to perform duties and functions under this Act.

(c) COOPERATION WITH OTHER AGENCIES- The Board may cooperate with public or private agencies to promote the purposes of this Act.

(d) COOPERATIVE AGREEMENTS- The Board may enter into cooperative agreements with the head of any department or agency of the United States, an appropriate official of any State or political subdivision of a State, or an appropriate official of any private or public agency or organization for conducting weather modification activities or cloud-seeding operations.

(e) CONDUCT AND CONTRACTS FOR RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT- The Executive Director, with the approval of the Board, may conduct and may contract for research and development activities relating to the purposes of this section.

SEC. 7. COOPERATION WITH THE WEATHER MODIFICATION OPERATIONS AND RESEARCH BOARD.

The heads of the departments and agencies of the United States and the heads of any other public or private agencies and institutions that receive research funds from the United States shall, to the extent possible, give full support and cooperation to the Board and to initiate independent research and development programs that address weather modifications.

SEC. 8. FUNDING.

(a) IN GENERAL- There is established within the Treasury of the United States the Weather Modification Research and Development Fund, which shall consist of amounts appropriated pursuant to subsection (b) or received by the Board under subsection (c).

(b) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS- There is authorized to be appropriated to the Board for the purposes of carrying out the provisions of this Act $10,000,000 for each of fiscal years 2005 through 2014. Any sums appropriated under this subsection shall remain available, without fiscal year limitation, until expended.

(c) GIFTS- The Board may accept, use, and dispose of gifts or donations of services or property.

SEC. 9. EFFECTIVE DATE.

This Act shall take effect on October 1, 2005.

http://www.theorator.com/bills109/s517.html

END
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dbeach Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #119
120. Why now?
this act was passed in march and barely got a mention..Its a huge act given the current circumstances..
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #120
133. HIGH FREQUENCY ACTIVE AURORAL RESEARCH PROGRAM
http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/index.html
HAARP is a scientific endeavor aimed at studying the properties and behavior of the ionosphere, with particular emphasis on being able to understand and use it to enhance communications and surveillance systems for both civilian and defense purposes.

Send questions to
Office of Public Affairs
Air Force Research Laboratory
3550 Aberdeen Ave S.E.
Kirtland AFB NM 87117-5776


Climatic Manipulation by the US Military: The HAARP Program

The High-Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) based in Gokona, Alaska, has been in existence since 1992. It is part of a new generation of sophisticated weaponry under the US Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI). Operated by the Air Force Research Laboratory's Space Vehicles Directorate, HAARP constitutes a system of powerful antennas capable of creating "controlled local modifications of the ionosphere" :

" to induce a small, localized change in ionospheric temperature so that resulting physical reactions can be studied by other instruments located either at or close to the HAARP site". (HAARP website)

Nicholas Begich --actively involved in the public campaign against HAARP-- describes HAARP as:

"A super-powerful radiowave-beaming technology that lifts areas of the ionosphere by focusing a beam and heating those areas. Electromagnetic waves then bounce back onto earth and penetrate everything -- living and dead."

World renowned scientist Dr. Rosalie Bertell depicts HAARP as "a gigantic heater that can cause major disruptions in the ionosphere, creating not just holes, but long incisions in the protective layer that keeps deadly radiation from bombarding the planet." (quoted in Chossudovsky, op cit.)

According to Richard Williams, a physicist and consultant to the David Sarnoff laboratory in Princeton

HAARP constitutes "an irresponsible act of global vandalism." He and others fear a secret second stage where HAARP would "beam much more energy into the ionosphere. That could produce a severe disruption of the upper atmosphere at one location that may produce effects that spread rapidly around the Earth for years." (Quoted in Scott Gilbert, Environmental Warfare and US Foreign Policy: The Ultimate Weapon of Mass Destruction

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=HAARP&btnG=Google+S...


Background of the HAARP Project

Prepared by Rosalie Bertell, Ph.D., GNSH

http://www.earthpulse.com/src/subcategory.asp?catid=1&s...

Further References:

C.L. Herzenberg, Physics and Society, April 1994.

R. Williams, Physics and Society, April 1988.

B. Eastlund, Microwave News, May/June 1994.

W. Kofinan and C. Lathuillere, Geophysical Research Letters, Vol 14, No. 11, pp 1158-1161, November 1987 (Includes French experiments at EISCAT).

G. Metz and F.W. Perkins. Ionospheric Modification Theory: Past Present and Future, Radio Science, Vo1.9, No. 11, pp 885 -888, November 1974.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #119
124. shhh - citing legislation and the words of military strategists
makes us look bad.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #124
134. Weather as a Force Multiplier:Owning the Weather in 2025
As presented by


Col Tamzy J. House
Lt Col James B. Near, Jr.
LTC William B. Shields (USA)
Maj Ronald J. Celentano
Maj David M. Husband
Maj Ann E. Mercer
Maj James E. Pugh
August 1996
Page 2
ii
Disclaimer
2025 is a study designed to comply with a directive from the chief of staff of the Air Force to examine the
concepts, capabilities, and technologies the United States will require to remain the dominant air and space
force in the future. Presented on 17 June 1996, this report was produced in the Department of Defense school
environment of academic freedom and in the interest of advancing concepts related to national defense.
A
global, precise, real-time, robust, systematic weather-modification capability would provide war-fighting
CINCs with a powerful force multiplier to achieve military objectives. Since weather will be common to all
possible futures, a weather-modification capability would be universally applicable and have utility across
the entire spectrumof conflict. The capability of influencing the weather even on a small scale could change
it from a force degrader to a force multiplier.
People have always wanted to be able to do something about the weather. In the US, as early as 1839,
newspaper archives tell of people with serious and creative ideas on how to make rain.
2
In 1957, the
presidents advisory committee on weather control explicitly recognized the military potential of weather-
modification, warning in their report that it could become a more important weapon than the atom bomb.


Applying Weather-modification to Military Operations
How will the military, in general, and the USAF, in particular, manage and employ a weather-
modification capability? We envision this will be done by the weather force support element (WFSE),
whose primary mission would be to support the war-fighting CINCs with weather-modification options, in
addition to current forecasting support. Although the WFSE could operate anywhere as long as it has access
to the GWN and the systemcomponents already discussed, it will more than likely be a component within the
AOC or its 2025-equivalent. With the CINCs intent as guidance, the WFSE formulates weather-
modification options using information provided by the GWN, local weather data network, and weather-
modification forecast model. The options include range of effect, probability of success, resources to be
expended, the enemys vulnerability, and risks involved. The CINC chooses an effect based on these inputs,
and the WFSE then implements the chosen course, selecting the right modification tools and employing them
to achieve the desired effect. Sensors detect the change and feed data on the new weather pattern to the
modeling systemwhich updates its forecast accordingly. The WFSE checks the effectiveness of its efforts by
pulling down the updated current conditions and new forecast(s) from the GWN and local weather data
network, and plans follow-on missions as needed.


http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:bwAhCAnSwMcJ:www.hum...

The United States Military is Very interested in "the Weather"

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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #134
136. NYT, Nov 23, 2000: US military working on weaponizing weather systems
Dr. Rosalie Bertell: "US military scientists are working on weather systems as a potential weapon. The methods include the enhancing of storms and the diverting of vapor rivers in the Earth's atmosphere to produce targeted droughts or floods."
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/10/american-...

Better stop before this thread disappears, too.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #136
147. "Better stop before this thread disappears, too."
No this is a legitimate subject.

Claiming a specific disaster has been caused by this without irrefutable proof is not & I can understand the mods view on that.

Discussing the American militaries interest in weather manipulation
is legit.

This is a great place & I come here to learn & grow.
Not to stick my head in the sand because a topic does not conform to my schema's




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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #147
153. I understand and agree with the distinction.
But it's been proven here many times over that some who can make threads disappear don't.
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Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #124
171. Not to mention scientific journals!!!
Edited on Wed Sep-07-05 05:39 AM by Henny Penny
jeez... couldn't you get a quote from Fox or Tom Cruise or someone...

:sarcasm:
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #119
135. what the hell are you doing
posting legislation like that?....you're liable to flood the truth squad out of their nests....
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #135
142. Yes I know but that's not my intent
My intent is to have a mature discussion of a topic the American Military has been interested in for decades "weather manipulation"
and how it may or may not affect us.

There is a lot of well referenced material out there on this topic for anyone who has questions.





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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-05 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #119
181. Word. nt
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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
122. Adding link on history of levees
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
127. OK I'd like to know why is DU so afraid to discuss something
that is happening. They've already passed the legislation and trickles have been coming to the surface about their activities. Mike Ruppert of From the Wilderness even has it on his website. It was bad enough when everything was being relegated to the 911 forum but now its just outright being deleted.

All I can figure is that DU is trying to follow the lead of the Democratic leadership and not make waves. Doesn't work for them either.

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michael_1166 Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #127
132. I'd like to know that too.
We're not living in the Middle Ages, we are allowed to discuss that the earth might revolve around the sun, aren't we?
Otherwise this website needs to be renamed to Democratic Establishment, including a sign "Do Not Disturb" on the entrance page.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #127
143. "Mike Ruppert of From the Wilderness even has it on his website"
Um...you just answered your own question.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #143
145. Cynthia McKinney asked Ruppert to be one of 3 people
Edited on Mon Sep-05-05 02:09 PM by seemslikeadream
to ask questions at this hearing. I suppose you don't have much faith in McKinney. Maybe you didn't get a chance to see it?



That's DU's Paul Thompson on the right, I guess you don't have any faith in his research either

C-SPAN has kicked its broadcast of 9/11-related hearings to a higher profile spot on the main C-SPAN Channel.

Originally slated for C-SPAN2, this will reach a broader audience.

I've listed the 9/11 Public Discourse stuff being broadcast this week as well.

Monday, August 29th

08:00 PM EDT
3:00 (est.) Forum
Civil Liberties and Security
9/11 Public Discourse Project
Mickey Edwards , R-OK
Christopher Shays , R-CT

Tuesday, August 30th

08:00 PM EDT
2:00 (est.) Forum
Foreign Policy: Afghanistan, Pakistan & Saudi Arabia
9/11 Public Discourse Project
Dennis Ross , Department of State
Elizabeth Jones , United States

Wednesday August 31st

08:00 PM EDT
3:32 (est.) Forum
September 11 Commission Report Results, Pt. 1
U.S. House of Representatives, McKinney, C. (D-GA)
Rebecca Daugherty , Freedom of Info. Service Center
Wayne Smith , Center for International Policy

Thursday, Sept 1st

08:00 PM EDT
2:00 (est.) Forum
Winning the Struggle of Ideas
9/11 Public Discourse Project
Thomas H. Kean , 9/11 Public Discourse Project
RE-AIR

Friday, Sept. 2nd

08:00 PM EDT
4:55 (est.) Forum
September 11 Commission Report Results, Pt. 2
U.S. House of Representatives, McKinney, C. (D-GA)
Cynthia McKinney , D, Georgia (State)
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #145
148. They also talked about ABLE DANGER
Five People Now Recall The Existence of Chart Identifying Atta
Edited on Thu Sep-01-05 10:14 PM by seemslikeadream

Three more assert Pentagon knew of 9/11 ringleader

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Three more people associated with a secret U.S. military intelligence team have asserted that the program identified September 11 ringleader Mohammed Atta as an Al Qaeda suspect inside the United States more than a year before the 2001 attacks, the
Pentagon said on Thursday.

The Pentagon said a three-week review had turned up no documents to back up the assertion, but did not rule out that such documents relating to the classified operation had been destroyed.

Downs said that three more people, as well as Phillpott and Shaffer, recalled the existence of an intelligence chart identifying Atta by name. Four of the five recalled a photo of Atta accompanying the chart, Downs said.

Pentagon officials declined to identify the three by name, but said they were an analyst with the military's Special Operations Command, an analyst with the Land Information Warfare Assessment Center and a contractor who supported the center.

more
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050901/pl_nm/security_atta...



BUDDY BUDDY

DO THE MATH

24 MINUTES

THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A MILITARY ORDER

http://www.bushflash.com/buddy.html



Senate May Hold Hearings on Able Danger, Info Sharing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


post by robertpaulsen

Able Danger is a Pandora's Box that will blow up in the RW's face.
Re-open the 9/11 investigation? BRING IT ON! Here's why:

So the responsibility for stopping DIA program Able Danger, which had Identified Atta and 3 other hijackers and linked them to 56 other al-Queda terrorists overseas, has been laid at the feet of Bill Clinton--except he and Richard Clarke were never told about it at all.

That's right. Bill Clinton was never told about Able Danger and the ID of Atta because Richard Clarke was never told about AD. How do I know? He never wrote about it in his book, nor did he testify about it's existence before the 9-11 Commission!

You see Richard Clarke was known for being obsessed with Osama Bin Laden and HE was the guy the neo-con moles did not want to find out about Atta and the gang. Schoomaker and the neo-cons knew telling the FBI would inform Clarke and then Mr. Laser Beam himself, President of the United State William Jefferson Clinton, would have gotten involved--and the Pearl Harbor-type attack would never take place (the neo-cons talked about the need for a Pearl Harbor-type attack before the PNAC Plan would be accepted by the American people--so when one presented itself, they let it happen).

General Pete Schoomaker, who were later heavily rewarded by the neo-cons in the Bush Administration, blocked the upward motion of the DIA information by having Shaffer and Philpott meet with Pentagon lawyers opinions--lawyers who were rubberstamping ridiculous legal opinions to carry out the neo-con plan. These certain people were neo-cons in the Clinton Administration, covertly carrying out the PNAC plan to let a Pearl Harbor-type attack occur so Iraq and 6 other countries could be invaded.


MUST READ - RE: ABLE DANGER INFO
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Hopsicker: Able Danger Intel Exposed "Protected" Heroin Trafficking
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Able Danger: Short Time-line
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Was Able Danger Shut Down After It Detected Condi-PRC Spy Ring?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Congressman Weldon -- Why now? Why ever?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #143
149. Are you saying the US military has no interest in weather manipulation.
I'm sure you know better.



Weather as a Force Multiplier:Owning the Weather in 2025


As presented by


Col Tamzy J. House
Lt Col James B. Near, Jr.
LTC William B. Shields (USA)
Maj Ronald J. Celentano
Maj David M. Husband
Maj Ann E. Mercer
Maj James E. Pugh
August 1996
Page 2
ii
Disclaimer
2025 is a study designed to comply with a directive from the chief of staff of the Air Force to examine the
concepts, capabilities, and technologies the United States will require to remain the dominant air and space
force in the future. Presented on 17 June 1996, this report was produced in the Department of Defense school
environment of academic freedom and in the interest of advancing concepts related to national defense.
A
global, precise, real-time, robust, systematic weather-modification capability would provide war-fighting
CINCs with a powerful force multiplier to achieve military objectives. Since weather will be common to all
possible futures, a weather-modification capability would be universally applicable and have utility across
the entire spectrumof conflict. The capability of influencing the weather even on a small scale could change
it from a force degrader to a force multiplier.
People have always wanted to be able to do something about the weather. In the US, as early as 1839,
newspaper archives tell of people with serious and creative ideas on how to make rain.
2
In 1957, the
presidents advisory committee on weather control explicitly recognized the military potential of weather-
modification, warning in their report that it could become a more important weapon than the atom bomb.


Applying Weather-modification to Military Operations
How will the military, in general, and the USAF, in particular, manage and employ a weather-
modification capability? We envision this will be done by the weather force support element (WFSE),
whose primary mission would be to support the war-fighting CINCs with weather-modification options, in
addition to current forecasting support. Although the WFSE could operate anywhere as long as it has access
to the GWN and the systemcomponents already discussed, it will more than likely be a component within the
AOC or its 2025-equivalent. With the CINCs intent as guidance, the WFSE formulates weather-
modification options using information provided by the GWN, local weather data network, and weather-
modification forecast model. The options include range of effect, probability of success, resources to be
expended, the enemys vulnerability, and risks involved. The CINC chooses an effect based on these inputs,
and the WFSE then implements the chosen course, selecting the right modification tools and employing them
to achieve the desired effect. Sensors detect the change and feed data on the new weather pattern to the
modeling systemwhich updates its forecast accordingly. The WFSE checks the effectiveness of its efforts by
pulling down the updated current conditions and new forecast(s) from the GWN and local weather data
network, and plans follow-on missions as needed.


http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:bwAhCAnSwMcJ:www.hum ...

The United States Military is Very interested in "the Weather"
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-05 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #143
158. Self- Deleted
Edited on Tue Sep-06-05 01:11 AM by arikara
Can't be bothered on second thought.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
144. Thanks for saving the links... eom
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
150. EarlG, I like what you've decided to do about the links and
I'm wondering if this could be made a standing policy for locked threads- that, if removed, the links remain available in another thread.

After all, there's no need to 'punish the information' for the posts made about it. :)
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msgadget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
151. Wow,
thanks. It's gratifying to see people unafraid of debating themselves.
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
152. **************LINK to timeline of reponses to emergency************
This site contains crucial information!

Hurricane Katrina timeline with links to articles http://savinggraves.org/notimeline/index.php
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
154. Please note Wayne Madsen's incorrect reporting here on Witt
Edited on Mon Sep-05-05 03:16 PM by FrenchieCat
Wayne Madsen DISSES James Witt & Associates BIG TIME! THEN RETRACTS!

Wayne Madsen wrote an article in where he linked James Witt & Associates to the New Orlean Disaster and in fact blames Mr. Witt's company for being a part of the problem. http://www.wittassociates.com/index.xml

It included this passage....

FEMA Outsourced New Orleans Disaster Plans
WNY Media Network - Buffalo,NY,USA
Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco has announced that she is hiring Witt to assist in the hurricane recovery. Just a minute here. His firm (which includes retired Gen. Wesley Clark) was part of the IEM team that came up with the non-existent $500,000 FEMA New Orleans-Southeast Louisiana Catastrophic Hurricane Disaster Plan. Why pay this guy again for his incompetence? Republicans + Democrats = Partners in Crime.
http://www.wnymedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&ta...


Here is the "correction" although the article is still running on several websites as was....the correction is only found on Mr. Madsen's website. He mentioned that "someone" is trying to frame Witt and Associates...like Rove, but actually, I knew that Witt and Clark had not received the contract, and if Mr. Madsen was a real journalist, he could have found this out PRIOR to writing this article.

Please note: News disinformation does not come from the right only. The Leftist extremists are also guilty of it. So please beware of Mr. Madsen and his "F-A-C-T-S"!

Corrective article http://waynemadsenreport.com /
September 4, 2005 -- WMR contacted by spokesperson for James Lee Witt. Yesterday, WMR reported that according to a June 3, 2004 press release from Innovative Emergency Management (IEM), Inc. it received a FEMA contract to develop a "Catastrophic Hurricane Disaster Plan for New Orleans & Southeast Louisiana." The IEM press release stated that among its team partners was James Lee Witt Associates. Witt was FEMA director under President Clinton and he restored that agency's disaster recovery effectiveness after President George H. W. Bush's ineffective response to Hurricane Andrew in 1992. According to Witt's spokesperson, James Lee Witt Associates continues to be fraudulently listed on IEM's web site as a team partner for the over $500,000 FEMA contract work. The IEM press release that contains the erroneous information has been disappearing and reappearing, another sign of something suspicious with IEM.

IEM, which is an 8-A minority-owned firm, apparently used Witt's name as a "buy in" ploy to lock in the FEMA contract. What is fishier is that the IEM press release was reportedly sent out before the FEMA contract was actually awarded. After IEM began the work on the FEMA contract, it never once used Witt's company and did not pay it one cent. Informed sources claim that IEM, owned by a big donor to the GOP, is notorious for not completing work after contracts are awarded. The Catastrophic Hurricane Disaster Plan for New Orleans and Southeast Louisiana was no exception. Mr. Witt is now acting as a pro bono disaster recovery adviser for Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco. Witt's spokesperson was frank is stating, "you don't really think the Bush administration would have given a contract to someone who worked for Bill Clinton?" That is very true. The issue with the incomplete FEMA hurricane preparedness plan is in IEM's and its actual partners' court. James Lee Witt, likely America's most effective FEMA Director, had nothing to do with the IEM work and he now needs all the support the nation and state of Louisiana can muster as he prepares to confront America's worst natural disaster in its history. and the editor smells Karl Rove.


I say to Mr. Madsen!
"No Editor....I smell that based on your lack of professional journalistic methods, it is you who set up Mr. Witt and Gen. Clark.

Be accountable for your mistakes and try not to pass them on to someone else. We already have too much of that as it is!"--FRENCHIE CAT
:eyes:

Why my thread was locked, I have not clue! :shrug:

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beetbox Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
155. Last Installment-Part 5: Cost of Survival
The first four are in the condensed links put up by the moderator. Remember this very extensive and detailed 5-part series was written in 2002. They knew what was coming, it was only a matter of when. They knew how to mitigate the disaster. Conventional wisdom would say they did nothing, but this is not true. They did alot. They siphoned all the resources into the Military-Corporate complex. They dried up funds to give tax breaks to the uber-rich. They ignored cries from all manner of citizens, scientists, journalists, state and local politicians. They hired incompetent college buddies and political hacks in the highest level positions of authority in the various domestic agencies. This was malevolent neglect at the least. They must be held accountable. Starting at the top of the decision-making chain.


Improvements in forecasting have greatly reduced storm casualties. Now, scientists are developing techniques that could save more lives by improving hurricane warnings and evacuation times critical for New Orleans.

COST OF SURVIVAL

New Orleans and south Louisiana will always be vulnerable to a catastrophic hurricane, yet there are ways to make the area safer. But implementing the proposals may be prohibitively expensive.

By Mark Schleifstein and John McQuaid
Staff writers

If hurricanes haven't seriously scarred coastal Louisiana or swept it out to sea in the next 50 to 100 years, the very process of protecting the region may still end up altering it almost beyond recognition.

Based on current plans and proposals, here are some changes that coming generations may see:

A giant wall, more than 30 feet high in places, cuts through New Orleans and across Jefferson Parish to create a "safe haven" should a storm surge from Lake Pontchartrain top the levees. The levees themselves are 10 feet or more higher than today, and some are crowned with a sea wall, blocking views of the lake. A large collapsible wall sits atop some levees, ready to be raised during hurricanes.

At the Rigolets and Chef Menteur passes to the lake, huge floodgates stand ready to be closed if waters rise. All across the Mississippi River delta, hurricane levees crisscross marshes, surrounding dozens of towns. At key junctures on the river, large gated sluices direct fresh river water across stretches of marshland, rebuilding it with silt. Dredges have hauled sand from miles offshore to sculpt and maintain new barrier islands where only slivers exist today.

t's impossible to make a large city or a broad area like the Mississippi River delta completely disasterproof. Nature is too fierce, human structures and activities too exposed. But most emergency managers agree that south Louisiana could be much safer than it is. That will take creative engineering design and new thinking about how to disasterproof communities. It also will take plenty of money.


http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf?/washingaway/co...
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beetbox Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
156. kick n/t
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-05 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
159. beautiful!
thanks, earlg and eloriel! :hug: :kick:
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-05 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
161. kick n/t
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beetbox Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-05 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #161
162. For a comprehensive collection go here, here and here
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JackieO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
176. kick
.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
177. Blackwater was dispatched to NO on or before September 1
From the Blackwater website press release:

http://www.blackwaterusa.com /

Private Israeli security force hired to protect gated community:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05251/567892.stm

Makes me curious if these are similar or not. Who hired Blackwater? Private or government? Interesting question though.
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buzzsaw_23 Donating Member (631 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #177
179. It's on auto pilot now
The sharks are circling as they smell the blood money.


The problem goes back to when the powers, beauties, and deep knowledges of the age-old women's traditions were supplanted by military-caste mystiques & the accumulation of heavy metals

From d.a. levy
"Really"
the police try to protect
the banks - and everything else
is secondary"
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buzzsaw_23 Donating Member (631 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
180. In case some folks are just tuning in

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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
182. The spin tonight (9/12) on Scarborough Country is that federal agencies
are incapable of providing relief in a disaster. Only private sector charitable oganizations are competent. They ignore the bureaucratic red tape and bypass government agencies to be effective. I hear a theme here. Make FEMA FUBAR and then justify giving the FEMA money to Pat Robertson who will do a better job than FEMA did. Seriously. I'm sure that everyone who has reviewed this thread realizes that there is no red tape for FEMA.
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
184. Wow! Kick and bookmarking this tread!
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buzzsaw_23 Donating Member (631 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
185. Levees Made of Lies: Rage, Grief and the Chimera of the American Dream
Levees Made of Lies
Rage, Grief, and the Chimera of the American Dream
by Phil Rockstroh

An entire American city has become an uninhabitable mire of fetid water, sodden ruins, and toxic sludge. Moreover, the destruction will not end there: the financial, political, and psychological spill-off, incurred by the deluge, will cause our nation to sink further into a morass of debt, denial, and despair.

<snip>

Moreover, the high cost and banality of (not to mention brain-damage incurred by) those activities left the nation susceptible to the platitudinous, confidence man assurances of power and prosperity, without sacrifice, promised by Ronald Reagan. As, all the while, through the 1980s, George W. Bush hid himself among mountains of the afore-mentioned disco marching powder and Arnold Schwarzenegger brandished fists full of anabolic steroids, creating for himself a body that is a precise metaphor for his adopted land -- a nation that worships the appearance of strength, but whose interior life is as stunted as that of a narcissistic bodybuilder, a preening twit for whom the larger world serves no greater purpose than for the adoration of his over-sized, oil-lacquered muscles.

<snip>

And thus far, we Americas have risen to meet the challenge of these perilous times -- by dozing off before our televisions. With crumbs of Doritos stippled in the folds of our double chins and upon our sagging chest, the garish glow of our sets flickers over our sleep-slackened faces, while the programming fare proclaims that "reality" is now comprised of the stuff of contrived competitions between corporately-neutered, would-be pop stars and of Weather Channel remotes, in which legions of blow-dried, sub-cretinous blathering heads are dispatched to hurricane-battered coastal regions to be blown about on camera for the amusement of viewers afflicted with a voyeuristic fetish for "live" disaster footage. And it was big fun, until the appearance of floating corpses put a damper on everyone's festive mood.

More at:http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Sept05/Rockstroh0912.htm
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