US commanders turn blind eye on Iraq prostitutes use by soldiers

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

quote:

"..and commanders turning a blind eye to the prostituting of Iraqi women."

- -

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/comment/0,11538,997648,00.html

Political death of a usurper

An unwinnable war in Iraq and the deceit that led to it have destroyed the credibility of the prime minister

George Galloway
Monday July 14, 2003
The Guardian

excerpt -

In their occupation of Iraq, the US and British armies have entered the gates of hell. Soon it will be 100 degrees at midnight in Baghdad, but there will be no respite from the need for full body armour. In two weeks, armed attacks on coalition forces have nearly doubled to 25 per day. More than 200 have been wounded and over 40 killed in combat since "victory" was declared by President Bush. Morale among US forces is dropping towards Vietnam-type levels, with heavy drug consumption, and commanders turning a blind eye to the prostituting of Iraqi women. No doubt the spectre of troops "fragging" overly strict officers is on their minds.

So hot is the welcome to these "liberators" that the US has now evacuated its forces from both the vast campus of Baghdad University and from the hub of the sharpest armed action, in Fallujah. The latter gives the lie to the repeated calumny that those fighting the occupation are merely "Saddamist remnants". In truth, Fallujah is the heartland of the Jubbur tribe, arch-enemies of Saddam whose leaders were purged by the Takriti Ba'ath party bosses more than a decade ago.

No fighting in this area could take place without the Jubbur, so it must be more than nostalgia for the old regime that is fuelling it. Throughout the Calvary of Vietnam, resistance was routinely described as coming from unrepresentative "hardline elements" or outside the country's borders. The deeper Johnson and Nixon sank into the quagmire, the more they spread the war, to neighbouring Cambodia and new killing fields. Look out for "hot pursuit" operations in the months to come into Syria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Iran.

more...........

-------------------

and in NEWSDAY US soldiers prostitute use is reported also -

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-iraq-endangered-peace,0,4337241.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

excerpt -

"Leaders of the rival al-Sadr group -- followers of a senior cleric assassinated in 1999 by Saddam Hussein -- are more extreme. They say the Americans corrupt local young people by handing out pornography and entertain prostitutes. "

[NNN0LHI]

1. Why do they hate us? n/t

[leanings]

2. Blah blah

Galloway is full of shit.

"Soon it will be 100 degrees at midnight in Baghdad"

It doesn't get above the mid-eighties at night. If he has to lie in order to dramatize his introduction, it can only go downhill from there.

"with heavy drug consumption"

Please. Does anyone believe this for a second? If so, could you please attempt to explain your reasoning and show me a source? I guess the Marine Corps has stopped urinalysis and starting passing out meth in order to crank the troops for village burnings and baby bayonetings.

"commanders turning a blind eye to the prostituting of Iraqi women"

Source? Any inkling of a source? Maybe Galloway's still getting a paycheck to put this crap out.

"Look out for "hot pursuit" operations in the months to come into Syria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Iran."

I thought that we'd have already taken over these countries and installed new governments, the way Galloway was talking six months ago.

and this: "Leaders of the rival al-Sadr group -- followers of a senior cleric assassinated in 1999 by Saddam Hussein -- are more extreme. They say the Americans corrupt local young people by handing out pornography and entertain prostitutes. "

Really, people. Doesn't the lead in describing the groups extremism give you a clue? Do you really think US troops are handing out pornography? Check back in with the mother ship.

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

3. whores In wars since ancient Mesopotamia

http://www.mesopotamia.co.uk/

Sex with prostitutes by occupying armies is NOT
a new concept. Been going on since ancient Mesopotamia
and since the dawn of civilization.

US soldiers did it in Revolutionary War,
US soldiers did it in Civil War, Spanish/American War,
American War(Vietnam War), WW1, WW2, Korea,
and at EVERY USA military base across the globe TODAY.

see -
http://www.bigeye.com/sexeducation/romanempire.html

prostitutes -
http://www.bigeye.com/sexeducation/mesopotamia.html

[leanings]

12. Again

Do you have any evidence that US forces are, en masse, taking advantage of Iraqi prostitutes while their commanders stand by? Maybe a year from now, if things are more stable, US troops will be given the opportunity to go out and interact with the local populace on a non-business basis, and maybe there will be cathouses that they will go to (world's oldest trade, after all), but there's no reason to believe that they're doing so now.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. Tailhook and the current situation with the Air Force are red herrings

Our troops who have been away from their families for months and are young horny guys would never use a prostitute to get their rocks off.

[leanings]

19. Once more

Do you have any evidence that US forces are, en masse, taking advantage of Iraqi prostitutes while their commanders stand by? Maybe a year from now, if things are more stable, US troops will be given the opportunity to go out and interact with the local populace on a non-business basis, and maybe there will be cathouses that they will go to (world's oldest trade, after all), but there's no reason to believe that they're doing so now.

[CatWoman]

20. Just like there's no reason to believe they're NOT doing it now

[leanings]

24. Interesting standard

of reasoning. Just because I have no reason NOT to believe something must mean that it's true.

Cute kitties, by the way. I also have four; Morgan, Fritzgerald, Pearl Ann, and Florence Joy.

[ChillEB]

35. Kinda like Shrub's reasoning...

If they can't PROVE they DON'T have WMD, then they must HAVE them!

The wingnuts have reduced us to adopting their cloth-eared syllogisms. For SHAME!

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leanings]

10. Do you think

Marines in battle conditions are getting Saturday nights off to go down to the local market, buy eight-balls, then take them back to their fighting positions and get zooted? If there was any indication of drug use, which is incredibly unlikely and hasn't been mentioned except by kook and Saddam stooge Galloway, drug testing would commence immediately.

I'm not saying that somewhere in Iraq there's not a supply troop hitting a hookah. But heavy drug use similar to that in Vietnam? Poppycock.

[aneerkoinos]

15. I'll take a wild guess

Most of the drugs, at this state at least, are coming along the normal supply routes from US and US bases around the world - and from army hospitals stashesh of morphene and other goodies. Where there is market to sell, there are supplyers. And the hard drug of choice is coke so far, wide heroin will take some time to sink in. Pot is everywhere naturally, and shouldn't be even counted as a problem.

Similar to Vietnam? Yes and no. Same shitty situation, but still early stage, so probably not yet as widely used as in Vietnam, but who knows.

And centcom to tell about the drug use among troops? In your dreams, even if they knew anything, which they naturally don't.

[leanings]

21. Is there even

a smidgen of evidence, an iota, anything that in any way whatsoever indicates anything you've speculated about or prophesized in the above post is in any way accurate in regards to the current sit in Iraq? Anything?

This is not a draftee military. Drug use in the field is not a new problem, like in Vietnam. Galloway's statement that "heavy drug use" IS taking place in Iraq is a completely unsubstantiated, outlandish statement, and to attempt to defend it because you like Galloway's views is intellectually dishonest. Show me otherwise, and I'll change my mind. But from what I saw in my six years as a military policeman and infantryman, in addition to my understanding of the conditions under which these troops are currently operating, the availability of drugs in the ME and the current ops tempo, I call BS.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leanings]

33. Not at all bragging.

I think you started by pointing out what an exclusive club of users and dealers you belonged to and how the rest of us laity are gullible ignoramuses. I didn't mention it at all until then. I'm just ironing out your asinine assumptions.

[CatWoman]

17. Ex military here

And I can attest to the fact that drugs are plentiful, no matter where you are stationed.

Simple rules of economics -- supply and demand.

When I was in Germany, my boyfriend and I used to get high in the storage room in the basement of our headquarters. We fashioned a can into an apparatus to smoke hashish.

No cans? No problem. We used the tubing found inside standard issue gas masks.

I routinely kept a bottle of rum under my desk. Everyone knew where it was, and helped themselves.

I had friends who would go into the local drug stores and buy sleeping pills. If I recall correctly, they were called "Mandrax", or something like that. Drink a German beer and pop a couple of those, kick back and put some tunes on. Yeah baby. The good ole days.

Piss tests???? Hah!!!! You honestly think they give piss tests in the field???? And as someone mentioned, there's plenty of stuff to mask drug usage in urine. Most of it (golden seal, etc.) was sold right there in the commissary.

Never misunderestimate the ingenuity of a soldier :D

[leanings]

23. Please explain to me

How you used tubing inside gas masks to smoke hash. What tubing are you refering to?

And if you're prior service, even if you were a remf, you should have some concept of how busy troops in Iraq are right now. This isn't garrison in Germany.

[aneerkoinos]

26. Troops busy? :D :D

Hard to believe you have military background...

[leanings]

28. Hard to know wtf you're implying by that

You're saying that they're not busy? You think, perhaps, with one or two being killed every day they're getting weekend passes to downtown Fallujah since they've got nothing better to do?

[dawgman]

37. Coke and Meth and indeed most hard drugs only take about 48 to 72

hrs to exit one's system so even if they were getting tested it probably wouldn't show.

[Emillereid]

5. This isn't the first mention of prostitute or pornography to pop up and

I've read many times in reports from Iraq in the LA Times that Baghdad reaches 115 -120 in the day and only cools off to about 100 at night -- so "Soon it will be 100 degrees at midnight in Baghdad" doesn't seem off the mark to me

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

6. BBC weather: 114 degrees in Baghdad

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?world=2047&links

114 degrees for today - Wednesday Jult 16

[leanings]

8. Mins are in the 80's

Do you think they occur at noon?

[leanings]

7. Why in the hell would

US troops be handing out porn?

Here's the average temps for Baghdad:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/weather/longterm/historical/data/baghdad_iraq.htm

It doesn't get up to 100 at midnight. I spent over a year in Kuwait and SA, where's it's hotter than Iraq, and it didn't get up to 100 at night.

[karlschneider]

11. Are you a meteoroligist? Just wondering; you seem awfully obsessed

with details about the exact temperature. It's 101 here in Oklahoma right now, I can empathize with the grunts in Baghdad...
:eyes:

[leanings]

14. It's a bold faced lie

on Galloway's part, designed to give more impact to his farcical little column. It's an incredibly obvious one, as well. Maybe it can be attributed to poetic license, but I don't tend to think politicians should exaggerate for impact.

[aneerkoinos]

16. Then prove it a lie

I lice in Athens and we just had a week of 40 celsius (over 100 Fahrenheit) also during night.

My Egyptian friend who has been living in Basra told me it's the hottest place he's been in. Remember, Mesopotiamia is not desert, where it can get cold at nights, there is lot of moisture to make the heat suffocating, and in big cities with lot of beton that reserve heat the nights are no less hot than daytime in shade when it gets over 40 celsius.

Galloway has been in Iraq many times, have you? What do you know more than him, me and my Egyptian friend who worked in Basra?

[leanings]

22. Did you look at the link?

Either the one I provided or the BBC? Temps in Baghdad are in the mid eighties at night in July and August. Do you or I or your Egyptian friend know more than the BBC or the WP?

[aneerkoinos]

29. Bagdad downtown or generic Iraq?

Like I said, when it's really hot the concrete buildings reserve so much heat that night brings no relief at all. This is personal experience.

But go on blindly believing some sources without real knowledge of what the numbers mean. I don't know what the BBC numbers really refer to and neither do you. But hey, I don't even care...

[leanings]

31. I guess that's a "no, I didn't look at the link"

It says "Baghdad, Iraq" on both links. One would assume they refer to the city of Baghdad, in Iraq. Maybe Galloway was refering to the temperature inside of a restaurant kitchen at midnight or inside a boiler room or something along those lines. I guess if that's the case, maybe I don't have any "real knowledge of what the numbers mean". Of course, you may be privy to info that I'm not.

I think it's much more likely that Galloway sat down to write the column and picked out 100 degrees as a nice, round symbolic number without any factual basis behind it. I seriously doubt that he sat down and thought, "Gee, the last time I was in Baghdad to collect my payoffs, it was 100 degrees F, I remember it clearly. Of course, it's only that hot because of all the heat retained in the concrete buildings." That's fine, as long as you don't mind having politicians make nice symbolic statements with no factual basis, like over WMD's.

The heat retention is probably a negligible issue anyway. I don't recall urban DC being 15 degrees hotter than the Virginia countryside in the summer.

[ChillEB]

38. Do YOU have evidence of YOUR accusations?

Galloway's 'payoffs' in Baghdad?

You know, you are sure are good at spouting off the Rush-style denigrations (you know, personal attacks, implying treason, without shred of evidence). You are to be commended on your rhetoric...

In any case, it's pretty obvious that the troops are quickly tiring of this 'mission', as are their families back at home. Been all over the news this past week. The Bushista's would be very wise to recognize this is a powderkeg about to blow in their faces. When the chips are down, if it comes down to 'military people/families' vs. the Bush regime, the American People are quite likely to favor the military in the almighty "Court of Public Opinion", particularly if it's conclusively proven that * lied in providing justification for the war.

Methinks this country is not going to put up with 'America's Finest' getting taken out on a daily basis for too long. Unfortunately for everyone involved, that is exactly the spectre that faces our brave young people from now until God knows when. It's a hell of bad deal, brought to the world by the inept moron squatting in Gore's house. My heart goes out to everyone suffering over there in the HEAT, Iraqi's and Coalition Forces alike.

Support the Troops - BRING 'EM HOME!

[leanings]

40. Allegations against Galloway?

I haven't seen Galloway refute the papers the Telegraph found. In fact, the same expert who declared the CSM documents fakes said that the Telegraph's looked genuine. I haven't heard much about Galloway's libel suit recently, either. Last I heard he wasn't "prepared to respond at this time" or some such weasel. And he's still under suspension for the mishandling of relief funds, right? I have no use at all for George Galloway, however much I agree with some of his arguments.

As far as Rush-style denigrations, that's a crock of shit and I resent the comparison and implications.

The rest of your post has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue at hand. I don't think anyone is trying to dispute that the military is tired and ready to come home, and should be brought here as soon as is practible.

Did you have anything to contribute to the discussion at hand? Would you like to provide some evidence of US troops using drugs, passing out porno or frequenting prostitutes? Or even on the weather in Baghdad? C'mon, help your boy Georgie out.

[ChillEB]

32. You know what? I don't care if it's BS...

The way the right-wing has acted my whole life has forced me to no longer care about accuracy in pieces like the one at-hand. The guy has an agenda, it's the same as mine, so I don't care if he lies to help our cause. Hey, don't blame me! I learned this brand of moral relativism from the party of 'integrity' and 'responsibility', so I figure it must be the proper way to go about things. Ends justifying the means, don'tchaknow?

[leanings]

34. I can respect that completely.

I just don't want to see anyone who takes your stance asking for accuracy from the other side.

[newyorican]

9. ummm...

Not good. I'd personally hate for someone to go Jihad on my privates.

[meisje]

13. my father told me that Vietnamese

whores would put razor blades in their vagina, ouch!

[Robin Hood]

36. But, But...

I thought that all of the soldiers were god fearing family men?

[ChillEB]

39. They ARE!!!

Just like our old buddy (and pResidential Brother) Neal "Silverado" Bush, he of the underage Thailand orgies! Solid, God-fearing FAMILY MEN, the lot of 'em.