I had a kid tell me this afternoon that this is "not his war". I've been

[anarchy1999]

talking with him for 3 years. He supports our troops, he has a decent job, but this is "not his war".

I'm at a loss. You support it, but you don't? This is not your war?

Damn.

[oasis]

1. It's Bush's war.

[anarchy1999]

4. He supports Bush, he supports our troops, then why don't you join up?

"it's not my war".

I was stupified. I had no appropriate response. I did not want to offend him, but I was offended. Damn, once again. I have to learn something new.

on edit:

It was heartbreaking. I did not know what to say.

[oasis]

6. The guy seems as shallow as a parking lot puddle.

[evilqueen]

8. It is too his war.

If he voted for Bush, this *is* his war. No shirking responsibility allowed.

His vote counted for Bush and he is responsible for his vote. This war is something he definitely owns, no matter how hard he tries to distance himself from it. That goes for every person who voted for Bush, especially in 2004 as the war was already ongoing.

[wli]

2. Bushler, Cheney, Rummy, & Ledeen's war (maybe PNAC & the AEI's, too)

[craigolemiss]

3. Ask him which war is "His War?"

[opihimoimoi]

5. As a result of dumbing down.....a lot of kids these days have no idea

HOW to think...

Reason and Reality are not part of the mental make up...those chips are of the early kind...no updates...

[anarchy1999]

7. Peace to you dearest. My daughter is one.

I don't know what to do?

[evilqueen]

9. as I said above

If they voted for Bush in 2004, this war is theirs. They own it. They are responsible for their votes. They cannot say "we didn't know!" because the war was already ongoing during the November elections. This war is the responsibility of all Bush supporters.

[anarchy1999]

10. Okay then, how do you make these young kids understand that this is

indeed "THEIR WAR"? There is where I am at a loss. I've been talking with this kid for three years. He knows, he understands and today he tells me this is not his war?

Like I said, I was stupified. I had no appropriate response. You support Bush, you support our troops, but this is not your war?

Huge disconnect. Short circuit, etc. Help me please.

[FlemingsGhost]

11. "responsible for their votes"? The '04 ticket had two pro-war pigs

A fact conveniently forgotten, by many here at DU.

If you supported the DLC whore for president, this is YOUR war, too.

[oasis]

12. Are you saying that Kerry was aware of the DSM and his plea for Bush

to go to war "only as a last resort" was an act?

[FlemingsGhost]

14. If a 30-year D.C. veteran could not see the writing on the wall ...

he is not qualified to be a Senator, let alone President.

How is it many of here at DU knew the IWR was a sham, but folks like Kerry claim that they were lied to, and had no idea that Bush would abuse the priviledges given to him?

I call bullshit, and I also attach this war onto all Democrats who decided it was in their best interests to play Beltway politics, when it came to supporting the "war."

[oasis]

15. Just answer the question I asked if you can.

[FlemingsGhost]

17. I cannot ... neither can you, for that matter

Makes most of this interlude rather pointless, don't you think?

[oasis]

22. Being prepared to back up your assertions before calling "bullshit"

may be of use to you in future "debates".

Good night. :hi:

[FlemingsGhost]

24. Yeah .. that's clever and all ...

Point taken, but I still call bullshit.

[fujiyama]

13. Yeah

Those of us that opposed this war should have all voted for Nader or Cobb. What nonsense. Unless you don't pay American taxes, your hands aren't clean either. The war and the blood of this war is on ALL OUR HANDS.

[FlemingsGhost]

16. Interesting debate technique

Watch this: it's called "ignoring you" ...

[fujiyama]

19. Fair enough

I've had enough of your self righteous bullshit.

Good bye!

[anarchy1999]

18. You have to calm down and chill out. Passions are running too high.

Seriously, take it down a notch or two, please.

[fujiyama]

21. I'm not going to be blamed for this war

I didn't create it.

But if the poster wants to claim that because I voted for Kerry, I share special responsibility, then I call bullshit.

[FlemingsGhost]

20. By the way, I have not paid taxes since the war started.

Some of us actually walk the walk ...

[fujiyama]

23. If that is the case

you are consistant. You are breaking the law, but nevertheless you are consistant. For that I applaud your beliefs.

[anarchy1999]

26. I've not paid taxes for far longer.

Is that walking the walk. I think I quit around the time of the Oklahoma incident.

Peace once again.

[evilqueen]

36. as I already said...

The war was already ongoing during the November elections.

The person ultimately responsible is the president of the U.S., not a Senator from Massachusetts. And like many Americans, he didn't know about the Downing St. minutes... remember Bush telling him in the debate that he "saw the same intelligence I did"? Knowing what I know now, that was Bush's way of trying to pin responsibility on Kerry, knowing the intelligence was "fixed around the policy."

Bush knew, Kerry didn't.

[anarchy1999]

25. All I asked in this post was for a reasonable response to a young man

I've been talking with for years, since before we started to drop the bombs in Iraq.

How do you get across to someone who "supports the war", but believes it is "not his war" that they bear any degree of responsibility as a citizen of this country?

He is a sweet, young, disillusioned young man.

Peace all.

[ninkasi]

27. I don't know how old he is...

I only know that many young people have never lived in a completely real world. Too much hype all around, too many trends, too much information to digest. They have been bombarded all of their lives with data, but have not lived long enough to put it in any perspective.

Some of us, like me, who were born when WWII was going on, grew up at a slower pace, and had the luxury of more time. We did not receive information at such a fast pace, and in such large chunks, that we were a little more able to think about one thing, before we were hit with another.

I'm sorry I have no real answer for you. I just have a lot of compassion and pity for today's young people. It's almost like learning to drive in the fast lane of a freeway in L.A. ...no time to learn from mistakes. Best of luck to you, though. I wish I could have helped.

[anarchy1999]

28. You can always help, never quit thinking that it's too late. All we have

left is hope and you can't quit.

[fujiyama]

29. Tell him clearly

that since Bush is responsible for starting this war, that by voting for him, he does bear some of the responsibility of this war.

Ask him why he supports this president and what a vote really means.

Not be rude, but he sounds kind of stupid and I'd have a much tougher time keeping sane. IMO, he should go enlist his ass if he supports the chimp.

[anarchy1999]

30. I keep asking him to join, he always has an answer. The latest was the

best. "It's not my war". Deep breath, go home, think about an appropriate response. Damn.

[fujiyama]

31. He sounds immature

The way he sees it, politics is just some abstract thing. What happens in DC, could just as well be happening in Katmandu for all he cares.

Unfortunately, that's the way many view politics, and even for those that vote, the real importance and responsibility of it is lost. Tell him that actions have consequences - that by attacking a country like Iraq which didn't pose a threat, we lose the world's support when a real threat arises.

And ultimately tell him that by killing many innocent people, we are creating enemies for a long time and that if or when another terrorist attack were to occur here, the US would have little sympathy abroad and little cooperation in finding those responsible. As it is, our attitude and aggressive behavior has alienated many in the world in the fight against terrorism, an issue that cannot be won by simple military actions alone.

[anarchy1999]

32. You nailed it all. It is my heartbreak every day. My daughter wants to

be a doctor and yet she hates being forced to learn Spanish, I embarress her with my activism and she says to me why should I care about anyone over there. And she wants to be a doctor.

Heart breaks again, 1000 times 10.

[evilqueen]

35. I found that for me, a trip to Arlington did the trick.

I don't know if you'll understand that, and I don't know if I can explain it.

[Vinca]

33. Tell him if it's not "his war," he should help to oppose it.

Then show him a gallery of photos of dead Iraqi children. It wasn't "their war" either. It won't traumatize him. The video games they play are almost worse than the real thing. Maybe that's why they're so removed from reality. I hope it doesn't take a draft to bring them back to earth.

[lostnfound]

34. What do you expect him to do about it?

A sense of responsibility without a sense of power is frustrating & painful.
Is he unconsciously trying to avoid that pain? "Why accept any sense of responsibility when you feel powerless to do anything about it?"

We are trained to feel powerless in our culture, aren't we? The power of ordinary people to make a difference in the political arena is not recognized.

Here's a few steps of logic you might try:
1. With the American Revolution, the citizens took the power of government out of the hands of the King and put it in the hands of themselves. We the People became the new King.
2. With that power comes responsibility.
3. Our power is diffuse but ignoring it completely is like handing it over to the 'bad guys' (corrupt elements) eager to seize it for themselves.

I'd also add:
4. To be fully human we must protect that part of ourselves that cares for the pain and suffering of others.

But the hard part is knowing how to turn it into action, and still feel that your efforts aren't wasted.

[anarchy1999]

37. Thanks and there is the hard part. How do I reach out and touch this

young man. He is so close and yet so far away.