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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 10:53 AM
Original message
"Crash near Pine City kills 2 women, unborn child"
Edited on Mon Aug-22-05 10:56 AM by Mairead
WCCO) Pine City, Minn. Two people and an unborn child were killed in a car crash near Pine City, Minn. Saturday morning.

Investigators said two cars of coworkers collided around 7 a.m. along St. Croix Road, about five miles east of Pine City.

Rebecca Booth, 41, and Jacquelynne Curry, 24, were both killed in the crash. Curry's sister said Curry was pregnant.


http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_234094701.html

What's wrong with this picture?
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KyndCulture Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. hmmm shouldn't that say "pregnant woman" not unborn child?
that's what I see glaring at me.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. "2 women, one pregnant." That's how it would generally be written
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. That's what glared at me, too.
And the article is from a major Twin Cities radio/tv outlet. I found it quite disturbing that it was let go through.
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fiveleafclover Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. And in other news
our editors are pro-lifers.
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. It *was* an unborn child.
Edited on Mon Aug-22-05 10:59 AM by tjdee
I don't usually get into these, but I'm game today (for a bit, I have to go out, LOL).

If this woman was planning on having this baby, everyone thinks of it as a baby. "Congratulations" "He's going to be just like his dad" whatever. I don't know one person who says "Oh you're pregnant? So what. Get back to me when it comes out of you." At baby showers, people aren't like "I know it's not a person, but here's some pajamas for the fetus anyway."

It may be use of pro-lifer code words, but I'm pretty sure the family is feeling the loss of that baby as well as the woman.

:eyes:

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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. Agreed
The fetus (to be technical) may have been 8 or 9 months along. As you say, I'm sure the family is grieving for that lost life as well as the mother's.

Another facet of this is that the child's life might potentially have been saved, depending on the damage to the mother. Not in this case, obviously, but it's possible. So given that possibility, I see nothing wrong with referring to that lost potential as an "unborn child".
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm not sure, other than it is a painful tragedy to the families of...
...the two women who were killed and to the spouse/significant other of the pregnant woman. Perhaps you can explain why you think the story seems to offend you.
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. The use of "unborn child".
nt
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
8. Nothing.
Some people say unborn child, some say fetus. I usually say baby because fetus sounds so cold and unfeeling, even though it's the correct term.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. Thank you
A couple of months ago I made a post regarding what I thought was strange language for a newscaster to use. He reported the murder of a woman and her "8 month old unborn child". I was like :wtf: and everyone around me suggested I was overreacting.

We will continue to see this language used more and more until people begin to think of the unborn as actual babies and children. It is intentional and it sets a dangerous precedent.
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. What I resent is that the child is somehow different from a person
Edited on Mon Aug-22-05 11:08 AM by AllyCat
I realize it is the language that is disturbing here from a choice/legal/whatever standpoint, but if the child was 8 months old (already born) would it still have been a person?

Currently, I am pregnant and I would consider anything that happened to the baby as "killing my baby/child". However, this is a wanted child and we are planning our lives with and around it. To use this language in a news story is assuming a similar scenario and is unnecessary.

They should have said "pregnant woman". The world doesn't need to know how she felt about the baby/fetus. I would expect that kind of news if it was me and my baby the article discussed. How I feel about the baby is not anyone's business and does not belong in the article.

On edit: Oops! replied to wrong post!
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. not to be gross, but if a woman with her period is killed,
would they report that a woman and an unfertilized ovum were killed?


Just too much information is transferred these days.. the fact that she was pregnant would be of extreme interest to her family & friends, but unless someone else was responsible, or there was an on-the-scene c section to rescue the child, do I even need to know?
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. *snork* that's gross
heehee No, not really. Well said!
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. ...it's probably wrong to someone that I'm laughing...
Edited on Tue Aug-23-05 04:32 AM by BlueIris
but I don't really care so much.

To all the people so ignorant and misogynist that they insist on declaring all fetuses of women they don't even know "unborn children," no matter what the fetuses' stage of development or how inaccurate a term that is: get lives. Go worry about your own lives, your own business and your own problems. And once again, get lives. 'Cause right now, even though I don't want to, I feel sorry for you that you have so little else in your own tiny slice of the world that you have cultivated and are now choosing to express that much judgment and disrespect for the personal, private health situations of women who are total strangers to you, with actual lives you shouldn't have any say in. Those of you who work in the world of journalism may want to get new jobs, ones you are more interested in doing responsibly, as part of those new lives you desperately need to get.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. It's odd how pregnancy has "changed" over the years
Edited on Tue Aug-23-05 05:36 AM by SoCalDem
When I was pregnant, people did not consider MY belly as something they were entitled to touch.. Today, every expanded waistline is obviously shielding a FETUS...a fetus who needs the "hands on" attention of complete strangers :wtf:

Way back then, women usually kept their pregnancy to their friends and family, until they at least wore maternity clothes..These days the testing kits turn some into "supermoms" as soon as the test thing turns blue, purple,red,polkadot , whatever....and of course the whole world simply must know that they are pregnant :)..(or at least that sonmeone felt them desireable enough to have sex with them a few weeks ago :)..)
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. I guess I was one of those "supermoms". I was so elated, surprised
and excited, that I could not wait to tell anyone I came into contact with. I think, with the advancement in early pregnancy detection, the change came naturally. And then, I lost three in a row...bing, bing, bing. And I was glad I had told someone..for they were able to comfort me in ways other than saying,"Oh, wow. I didn't know you were pregnant." Maybe it's not the liberal way to be, but those unborn children were reality to me. And to hear a heartbeat, and then hear silence months later...is devastating.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I told my friends right away, and family
My first was very exciting, but the 2nd and 3rd I was scared all the way through, and tried to put the whole thing out of my mind as often as possible.. (Our first was born almost 7 weeks early, due to an almost complete abruption, and he had a serious birth defect ..unrelated to the abruption)../ we both almost died... then the 2nd went like a charm..but another abruption with the 3rd and last one.. I was happy to have a tubal ligation, even though it meant I would never have any girls...

How awful for you mrsG :cry:.. I had a friend who had 6 consecutive miscarriages before they gave up completely.. they would have been fantastic parents, but it never was to be..

My own grandmother lost 6 before she successfully carried the 3 that were her only 3..twins were among the 6 she lost ... I cannot imagine how horrible that must have been..

My only "issue" is with complete strangers and (news media) thinking that what's inside a woman's uterus, is THEIR business.. It should always be up to the woman..as to who she tells, when she tells..and why.. :)
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. I completely agree.
We gave up after 3....and then came James. The worst part was that I had lost the three previous after the "scary stage", had felt them kick...then nothing. I was on pins and needles the whole way through with my son. I was even upset with my MIL for throwing a baby shower (our daughter was born eight years previous, and we had nothing) for me...because I thought it would "jinx" me. I didn't believe he was going to be until they placed him in my arms. Boy, was I a sobbing mess then. :hi:
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. off topic.. Didn't you love Baby panda yesterday?? he was so animated
I even finally heard him making noise :)
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. He's the sweetest. It was a major active day for him, and I love that
we can see them interact more now. I love it. :hi: Those squeals take my breath away.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
13. I always thought it wasn't a "child" until it was born.
Wasn't it always.. fetus then child? Just askin'. An unbaked loaf of bread is still just dough until it's finished.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Some disagree with that concept. n/t
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Nomad559 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
15. Is a child a fetus?
Is a child a fetus? ... No

Is a fetus a child? ... No

A fetus Is the unborn offspring of the woman, a fetus Is not capable of surviving outside of the womb. (Without Medical Assistance)

A child Is the fully developed offspring of a woman capable of surviving outside of the womb.


That's just my opinion.

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bertha katzenengel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
16. What's wrong with this picture? How about tragedy? How about
the sudden, shocking death of people that somebody loved?

:eyes: Must we pick apart every god damned item? Sheesh.
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I'll agree not to pick things apart if you can get them to agree not to
glue things together. Why should they be allowed to exploit tragedy for their political purposes?
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. Editors subliminally giving personhood status to "unborn child"
The personhood status is what the next roadblock for anti-abortion groups. That was part of the opposition argument in the debate over 'Conner's Law'.

There is no mention of 'doctors were unable to save Curry's unborn child'. Just that her sister says she was pregnant--also not reporting how many months pregnant. She may have just found out a week ago for all we know!

It could have read "Crash Kills 2 Women, One Pregnant" or "Crash Kills Woman and Pregnant Friend" or some other descriptor of the pregnant woman. But, putting ", unborn child" is also pushing to place it front and center in the public debate.
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Catholic Sensation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
20. the only thing i see wrong is bitching about the fact that the writers
happened to use the term "unborn child".
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
30. They "happened" to use it? It was an accident, you think?
The words spontaneously appeared without the writer's/editor's volition? You're saying there was no 'intelligent design' involved?
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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
21. The country basically conceded
this when Peterson was tried for two murders -- not one, in California.

If the largest liberal state in the country agress with this, then who are we peons to disagree?
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
24. I am sorry. I don't see anything wrong with that picture. As a woman
who has suffered a few late term losses, they were unborn children to me. I still wonder what they (yes they, for two were boys and one was a girl) would be like today. I think we go a little too far when we have a problem with this. No offense intended to the OP, but I really don't have a problem with it. It just makes me a little sad that some of my fellow DUers cannot see what my unborn children meant to me. Am I not to grieve the lives they would have had? :shrug:
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