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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:53 AM
Original message
Roberts' children are actually IRISH!?!
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 07:54 AM by Cassandra
http://www.time.com/time/press_releases/article/0,8599,...

"Jack McCay, law partner of Roberts wife Jane and a friend, speaks of the couples adoption of John (Jack) and Josephine, born in Ireland 4 1/2 months apart. As frequently happens when you go through the adoption process, some of the efforts werent successful, and it continued for a time But when the opportunity came along to have not just one but two kids, they took both babies without blinking."

So what's all this about Latin America? They were adopted as infants. Do Irish women send adoptable children to Latin America? Something is at least a little weird here.

edit: Forgot to credit Atrios for picking this up.
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KyndCulture Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. WTF????
I thought they looked a bit aryan to be latin american kids... something strikes me as just odd about that whole adoption thing.
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. excuse me???

Irish is not "Aryan". That's extremely offensive.

Could you at least call them "pale" or something?

We're not "Aryans".
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KyndCulture Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. I'm a bright red headed Irish girl... I didn't mean to offend.
sorry.
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
100. well a lot of us are dark

and don't take kindly to being called "Aryan".
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
33. well they do look aryan, don't they?
you know, the blonde, blue-eyed ruling class from Northern India?
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well Irish people immigrate all over the place
So it's possible that an Irish couple in, say, belize had to put up their kids for adoption.

Of course the more pleasing story is that Roberts is total liar who adopted Irish kids from Ireland and lied about where he got them.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. They were born in Ireland.
There may be nothing to this other than oddness, but it's certainly odd.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
59. where abortion is illegal btw
It should be noted that, in theory, Abortion is legal in Ireland if there is a risk to the life of the mother. A provision exists in the Irish constitution to allow Dail Eireann to legislate on this, however no political party has risked it, and in the meantime, while it is legal in theory, the body that holds medical licences in Ireland considers it malpractice for any doctor to perform an abortion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Ireland

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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. or stole them in a child kidnapping plot.
hey, if they can make stuff up in speculation, so can I.
Besides, can they PROVE they weren't stolen in a child kidnapping plot? I rest my case.

:)
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Some people say...........
you're correct! THAT'S how it works, "some people say". ;)
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Child_Of_Isis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
30. He probably bought them! n/t
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
58. for the sarcasm-impaired, the my post, above, is sarcastic.
its a shame that had to be pointed out.
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dhinojosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. I am in the "who cares" camp....
Though I am responding to this poll after saying that, my opinion is if Democrats go after this, it will backfire.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
79. Best if we just engage in nasty whispered gossip ...................
like they did to the Clintons for years. There is absolutely no need to go after them officially. Innuendo and rumor will suffice.

(And no, this is NOT sarcasm)
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nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. I don't have a problem with it, if the kids are Irish
that's not the point - if they legally adopted kids from Ireland, that's fine.

The problem is if Roberts LIED about the kids being adopted from Latin America.
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4MoreYearsOfHell Donating Member (943 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I think I remember something about kids in the
Republic of Ireland NOT being available for adoption.
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nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. if true...and the kids were adopted from Ireland...
that certainly suggests something...less than fully legal, doesn't it?
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. it suggests at the very least circumventing Irish law.
by transporting through latin america.

Someone had to approve babies being flown there. Babies don't fly themselves.
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nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #20
47. agreed
n/t
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
80. It suggests money to me.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #80
85. and influence.
money alone would not accomplish it.
As I said, someone had to approve flying babies.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. And I thought they were biologically brother and sister.
Guess not. ...John (Jack) and Josephine, born in Ireland 4 1/2 months apart.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
50. That sentence is just weird.
It could be the two aren't biological siblings and born 4 1/2 months apart but they look like there's a bit more distance between their ages. I wonder if it's a typo and they are 14 1/2 months apart in age, or just a poorly constructed sentence meant to convey that they were adopted 4 1/2 months apart.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #50
84. Yes, it is very confusing.
I don't understand the 4 1/2 months apart thingy.
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
10. Maybe it's some new RW version of geography,
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 08:05 AM by tenshi816
'cause, y'know, if it's not in the good ol' US of A, then it's just "somewhere foreign" anyway and thus of no great importance (well, unless there's oil there). Latin America, Europe, what's the difference, right? They just know those children came from someplace else outside the American borders.

Edited for typo.

Edited again to say that, seriously, it doesn't matter which country they adopted their kids from, but I do find it troubling that for some reason they chose to lie about it.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
62. More and more of our adopted foreign children is coming from overseas...
;-)
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #62
75. Yes, I'm aware of that -
but if my understanding of this is correct, Mr. and Mrs. Roberts have claimed that their children came from Latin America. If they did in fact come from Ireland, I'm just wondering why they chose to say that they came from Latin America, that's all. If I'm wrong about what's been said, then I'd be grateful if someone would fill me in, because it's not been a focus of the news in the UK.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
73. Now, I'm not a astrophysicist, but could Roberts have been truthful...
...when he said he adopted them from Latin America, if one considers that the universe can be plotted with many, many points, and that the Earth revolves and moves through this universe, and at some time, it is conceivable that Ireland passed through a point that once marked Latin America, and in this regard, the children, who were born in Ireland, were adopted when Ireland passed through the point marking Latin America? Perhaps this is what Roberts was referring to.

Just a thought... :crazy:
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #73
101. Now my head hurts... n/t
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
12. I found this statement much more damning
Richard Lazarus, a longtime pal now a law professor at Georgetown, plays squash with Roberts. You need to know whether (the other player is) right-handed or left-handed because it dramatically affects your strategy. But Roberts is ambidextrous. Ive played (squash) with a lot of people over the years, including Scalia, says Lawrence Robbins, a fellow Harvard Law alum, and Johns the only one I know who can do that.

Damn ambidextrous people! Frankly, I don't see much to get excited about on the adoption thing. There are issues that make him lousy candidate for the Court - this ain't one of them. Until someone can prove he is lying this is just something to shoot ourselves in the foot over.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
13. This was discussed in another thread a few days ago, and someone
looked up Irish adoption laws. According to the State Department, only permanent residents of Ireland can adopt Irish children.

Here is the post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Thanks
I didn't see it before but figured someone mentioned it somewhere.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Your welcome! Now the question is, if they are from Ireland, how
did they manage to get their way here?
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Obamarama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
70. There are "two" Irelands...which one is this for?
There's Northern Ireland, and the Republic of Ireland. Does the law apply to both?
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #70
81. I would think that the poster was referring to the Republic of Ireland.
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 10:08 AM by OmmmSweetOmmm
Doesn't Northern Ireland follow British law?
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mohinoaklawnillinois Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #70
82. No, technically an adoption in Northern Ireland
would be under UK law, not the Republic of Ireland. The sites I've posted apply only to the Republic of Ireland, not Great Britain.
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NebraskaDem Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
18. This is one of those things...
that I think we should have left alone. Politicians are one thing but I think kids, especially minor ones, should be off limits.

Just my 2 for what its worth.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. so....if international laws are broken or circumvented in order
to adopt these children, that's ok by you?

There is no shortage of children to adopt with special needs, for example, domestically.
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NebraskaDem Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. the investigation...
...didnt start with an accusation of a crime. It started b/c a newspaper was looking for dirt. I am quite sure there is plenty to be found without dragging some little kids into it. My post wasn't about Roberts or the legal system it was about the well being of two little kids.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
NebraskaDem Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. None
I havent posted there yet. I was looking for some solidarity first. I was kind of hoping there would be strength in numbers sort of thing. Apparantly I was wrong.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #22
43. "Looking For Dirt"? Since When Is Investigating Stories & Public Figures
"looking for dirt", specifically?
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. nice RW political discussion board you got there in your profile...
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 08:47 AM by Lerkfish
all the discussions are right wing.
There IS a democratic forum, but its unpopulated with posts.
and going into your politcal forums, I find this gem:

this one trashes Cindy Sheean:
http://fullcontactpoli.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=...

edit to add:

and this thread is real nice, people talking postively about getting their "club gitmo" tshirts and coffee cups

http://fullcontactpoli.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=...

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NebraskaDem Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. Its a debate board..
that is just getting off the ground and that I visit occasionally. I was invited there from another board by one of the moderators. I could have just as easily listed a number of others. There are quite a few out there. I posted this one in my profile here because the place obviously needs more Democrats to offset the rhetoric. If that offends you for some reason....
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. But there are no posts there...
in the "Democrat" section. What are you doing there, if you aren't being a Dem?
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NebraskaDem Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. As I said...
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 08:57 AM by NebraskaDem
I have only lurked the site...but it seems like a place DU could do some good at.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
37. so, you're hoping to entice dems there to offset the imbalance?
and that's why you're defending roberts and criticizing analysis of his fitness for the SC?
and that's why you're looking for solidarity?

a riddle wrapped in an enigma you are.
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NebraskaDem Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. no
All I was doing was saying I thought this was a bad issue for us.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Your 2cents aren't worth squat
This is not a Politician it is a life long appointment to the Supreme Court. Frankly I don't care if Roberts lied about his adopted children, his mother, his dentist, or his fucking hemorrhoids. If he is lying about anything during this vetting process he is UNFIT for the court.

Please stop with the straw man argument ostensibly protecting the "kids." We have seen it all here we aren't fooled by this RW canard. PPFFFTTTTZZZ!
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. doncha know? republicans are allowed to lie.
its the only way they can access power.
They certainly can't do it through integrity or hard work.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #26
44. Thanks Sugar
I've got a son just about to deploy to Iraq and I'm a tad sensitive when these fellow "Dem's" start wringing hands and gnashing teeth over the "kids."

Just sayin'. Good to see you BTW.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #44
87. You are welcome.
I see my post was deleted. :eyes: So I'll say it again...You are one of the funniest Moms posting on DU! And I wish your son a safe and short journey to Iraq.
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Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #18
55. People in Ireland would be very interested to know
if their adoption laws are being flouted by wealthy foreigners!
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #18
83. If there was a public lie about where these kids came from ...............
and then maybe even an attempt to cover up the lie, YOU HAD BETTER BELIEVE THE PUBLIC HAS AN INTEREST IN THIS MATTER.

Unless you believe, like the Republicans, that truth and laws are only for the Little People.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
25. Some people are just dying to be in a permanent minority party
Why on earth would anyone want to go down this road? Does anyone think it will actually help the Democrats to be perceived as attacking toddlers?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. I've been campaigning for Democrats since I was 5
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 08:55 AM by theboss
My mom won a landmark supreme court case to run as Democrat when she was blocked from doing so by people who feared a woman in office. I worked for Clinton. I'm friends with Jay Rockefeller.

So...go to hell for thinking I get my talking points from Rush.

Politics is perception. I know that no one is "attacking" toddlers. But that's what the perception of this is going to be.

But whatever...commit political hari kari. It only took the Republicans forty fucking years to get out of the wilderness.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #35
52. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. In case you missed the smiley face at the end of my post,
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 09:32 AM by Lerkfish
I was being sarcastic.

calling me a "so-called progressive" is a damned insult because you're implying otherwise.



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T Town Jake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #54
57. "apologize immediately"...
...let me think about that demand for a sec.

Thank you, no. I decline.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. fair enough.
speaks more about your character than mine.
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T Town Jake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. You're welcome. And thanks for rushing to edit your post #54...
...to make it more "character" friendly, and all...
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. I edited it before I saw your reply.
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 09:48 AM by Lerkfish
*shrugs* FWIW.
I realized it was unreasonable and self-deleted it immediately.
I did not know anyone had seen the original version.

If it caused you distress, I apologize.

if you'll note, the time of my edit is three minutes before your reply.

but enough of this. let's all move on.
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T Town Jake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #64
74. I agree, and have edited my own message...
...in response. Peace.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #25
72. The kids did not fly themselves over here
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 09:53 AM by KurtNYC
The kids did not lie about where they were adopted from nor did they potentially perjure themelves during confirmation hearing to become a Supreme Court Justice for the rest of their lives. So I'm not sure why so many are so willing to accept the frame that asking whether Roberts has been straight with Country about his aadoptions is some kind of attack on the children he adopted.

The fact that the MSM will twist everything we say is not a reason to stop talking (because they will twist your silence too).
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
27. I will say this much for adopting overseas two at a time
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 08:49 AM by LynneSin
I have a family member who did an overseas adoption and it just happened that when they applied for one, they ended up with a brother/sister pair that the orphanage did not want to separate and asked if they would mind adopting both of them.

Now the costs to adopt overseas can be outrageous and sometimes paperwork can hold up the adoption longer than expected (they were delayed a week). So the opportunity to adopt 2 children at once seemed like a great planned and would prevent them from going through this hassle a second time (they wanted two).

I'm not suprised to find blonde/blue eye children in latin american and especially south american since yes, many of the Nazis who escaped Germany ended up settling in that country. So that is another issue I'm not concerned with.


The fact that these children might be from ireland and not Latin America like I first read concerns me. THat means there is some sort of lie and/or cover-up going on and this is information we need to find details about. Plus, I'm not aware of Ireland being a country where there is a big market for adoption their children overseas.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #27
48. I have no problem with them adopting two at once..
although it has a bit of an insta-family about it, or that there are European children in Latin America, because there are (I know some). The odd thing is, if they were born in Ireland, why did the adoption go through Latin America.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #27
89. Not all "white" Latin Americans are Nazis.
Some are descended from Europeans who settled there long ago, & Europeans have continued to immigrate. Argentina is famous for the large number of Italian immigrants. (Not to mention the Welsh, Irish & English.) Histories of the Tango speak of the influx of Jewish & Gypsy musicians who fled the Nazis.

As for Ireland, Section 10(6) of the Irish Adoption Act of 1991 states that a person or persons are not eligible to adopt in the Republic of Ireland if they are not a permanent resident of that country. Therefore, under Irish law, U.S. citizens who are not permanent residents of Ireland will not be considered as adoptive parents.

http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/population/children/adopt...

For many years, Ireland's main export was its people. I'm sure there would be a "market" for Irish children overseas, but Ireland will not allow it. Apparently there are fewer children in need of adoption within Ireland. Availability of contraception & lessening of the stigma of the "unwed mother" may be factors.

Republic of Ireland law forbids abortion without medical reasons, although Irish women are working for change. In the meantime, trips to England can be arranged. The women of Northern Ireland face the same situation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3049652.stm

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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
31. Where did the "Latin American" stuff start? I've never seen a link to the
info.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #31
49. Drudge, Free Republic, Rush, Power Pundit...
oddly enough. Google roberts children latin and there are links. Almost all right-wingnuts. Hmmmm..... Are they trying to lead us away from possibly illegal adoptions by not saying Ireland. They should have picked Portugal or Luxemborg.
Seriously, I'm looking for an original non-wingnut citation and can't find one. If they're pushing disinformation, then I can see why the NYTimes would be interested (for a change).
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #49
68. Ah, well maybe I should have said I've never seen a CREDIBLE link. NT
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Moosepoop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #68
90. Chicago Sun-Times, AP contributing
http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-scotus20.h...
<snip>
Roberts and his lawyer-wife, Jane, are parents of two young children adopted from Latin America.

Contributing: AP

***

Located at the very end of the article.



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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #90
95. Thanks.
I'm wondering how many newspapers have printed this without even asking? It's not as if anyone naturally wants to give anyone the third degree over where they adopted their children. Other than wondering how they aquired two such blond children from Latin America, I hadn't given it any intensive thought until I saw the Atrios piece on it this morning and followed the links back to Time. I look forward to someone coming up with the birth certificates and the adoption papers (and I don't need to see every detail; it's not my business). If they are all square, that's fine. If they're not, then Roberts should be questioned on it and maybe should not be on the SC.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #68
91. Some people consider Wikipedia credible; some don't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Roberts_Jr#Persona...

The Latin America angle's been the standard narrative for a couple of years.

The Ireland angle--now taken to refer to the republic, not the UK part--has been around for a week or two. One source, cited in one magazine.

Now if it were an *anonymous* source, there'd be no question that it was infallible.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #31
76. The ONLY timne I have seen the Irish connection was this week
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 09:55 AM by SoCalDem
attributed to a "friend" who may not have been told the truth.. EVERY mention of the children in the corporate media says LATIN AMERICA,That's precisely what started the questions.. Had they been dark skinned with brown hair, no one would have raised an eyebrow.

Search ...Roberts adopted ...in the DU search and you'll find several threads that discussed this when it first started. the links to the latin american connection are in those threads
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mohinoaklawnillinois Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
38. I posted about this on Friday night.
Here are two links that might interest everyone:

US State Department: http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/population/children/adopt...

Adoption Board of Ireland:
http://www.adoptionboard.ie/domestic/index.php

This is not about the well being of these two children.
It's about the LAW.

Sorry, but I'm of the opinion that NO ONE is above the law, whether it be a state law, a federal law or a law of a foreign government.

The old argument that IOKIYAR, ain't going to fly with me on this.
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nonincriminatin Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
39. That's weird
Ireland is seldom confused with Latin America
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
40. I have a friend from Latin America who is named O'Leary.
Also, check out the first Chilean head of state:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardo_O\'Higgins

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mohinoaklawnillinois Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. That's not that unusual. Many Irish fleeing the famine
not only came to North America and Australia, South America was an option as well.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. My point exactly. n/t
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #45
69. Many irish were also kidnapped by the english and enslaved for a couple
of centuries at least, and sold off to Jamaica, the Bahamas and those other islands under british rule. They were treated every bit as terrible as the slaves from africa. The irish lost hundreds of thousands this way.

Also, abortion is still not allowed in Ireland unless under extreme, dire circumstances. Entirely possible mums were sent far away to relatives in said latin american countries to have their babies...

Also, 40 years ago irish girls were sent to upstate NY and Canada to have their out of wedlock babies, and the babies adopted out by the region's religious orders. The girls merely had a holiday and many irish children were adopted via upstate NY and Canadian agencies.

I don't know if this is still done today, but the irish do send girls off to have babies, being a traditional country still.

However, Roberts is a republican. I have no doubt he'd do something criminal, snarky or complicit, since, it's in his party's genre to behave like criminals.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #40
51. But two women of Irish extraction from South America, pregnant
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 09:24 AM by OmmmSweetOmmm
at about the same time, giving up their children for adoption? What are the odds???
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Check out my post #49
I really, in 6 Google pages, can't find an original non-wingnut source for the claim that the children were actually adopted from Latin America. Is this disinfo?
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #53
65. Just did a quick search, according to (wearing garlic), Drudge
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 09:47 AM by OmmmSweetOmmm
The NYTimes is investigating this. http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3jra.htm

the key is Latin America and not South America..there are tons of articles about that. I have a feeling that is something Roberts has put out there in his bio.

from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Roberts_Jr .
Roberts lives in Bethesda, Maryland. He married Jane Marie Sullivan in 1996. The Robertses have two children, Josephine ("Josie"), 5 years old, and Jack, 4 years old, both of whom were adopted from Latin America in 2000. Jack's dancing during Bush's White House introduction of his father brought the four-year-old international media attention.


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jasmineblue Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #65
102. Wikipedia has now changed it from Latin America to Ireland! Hmm?
Roberts lives in Bethesda, Maryland. He married Jane Marie Sullivan in 1996. The Robertses adopted two infants from Ireland in 2000,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Roberts_Jr
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patcox2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #51
66. "Born in Ireland" Not south america.
The story says that the kids were born in Ireland. Not that they were born to south americans of Irish extraction.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #66
77. So if you relocate 2 pregnant Irish women to Latin America, can
you legally adopt the children in the country they were born in? Of course, if this is the scenario....
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #77
86. But if they were actually born in Ireland...
then they would have to be taken to Latin America after birth. Is that like buying clothes that say "made in Israel (or some other unlikely spot)" but were actually made in China and shipped elswhere to avoid import restrictions?
Since the only evidence that we have so far about Latin America is Roberts' say-so and the wingnuts echo chamber, I don't blame the Times for wondering.
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patcox2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #86
88. Its likely that the south america story was a cover for shennanigans..
Its illegal to adopt irish kids if you don't live permanaently in Ireland. There was probably some deliberate circumvention of this law. Roberts' wife is of Irish descent and still has close family members who live there. They may have done a deal where one of her family members actually adopted the kids, and then a private adoption was rammed through somewhere else (so the Irish authorities would not know about it) transferring the kids from her Irish relatives to them.

Its worse than nannygate, if true.

Shennanigans, the perfect word, since its one of the few Irish words in english.
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mohinoaklawnillinois Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #88
93. Ding, ding, ding, I believe we have a winner here.
I think what you are suggesting is exactly what happened with these two children or something similar.

Mrs. Robert's, I do believe, is very active "Feminists for Life". Makes perfect sense to me that she would have connections to the pro-lifers in Ireland.

There are unwed mothers in Ireland as young as 13 and who knows maybe some poor "wee" girls somewhere in the Republic of Ireland got pregnant and wanted to give up their babies for adoption.

It's amazing what some humans will do for money.....
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #86
92. My hope is that the Times doesn't give up on this, I do think this
is very relevant.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
56. Well that makes more sense.
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 10:31 AM by cat_girl25
But why didn't they just say the kids were Irish born up front instead of mentioning they are from Latin America?
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mohinoaklawnillinois Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #56
67. It might be because adopting Irish born children to bring to the US
is highly unusual, in most circumstances....
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patcox2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #56
71. Because its illegal for nonresidents of Ireland to adopt Irish kids.
ireland doesn't like exporting its children, they export too many people already.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
63. Yikes! Poor lil things. Hope they didn't drain their rebellious blood!
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #63
78. exactly--I don't care about the origins of the children
but I have questions about the kids' behavior after being raised by this pair for a few years. MY kids would have been aware of the somberness of the occasion <g> and would NOT be acting out like abused little attention getters--or would have been left at home.

Why is it so important to highlight the family of the appointee? is it because Roberts and spouse have the classic history of closeted folks? (to those of us with evil minds) I'm just curious.

.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #78
98. Well...aren't you special
I'm glad you are a perfect parent.

I probably would have stood like a little soldier at that age; that's just how I was. My cousin, however, would probably have been crawling between Bush's legs. Kids behave differently.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. I was speaking sarcastically
naturally--my kids have turned out ok, but they all had bad days of course. I like to think that I would have spotted the problem and left them home with the nanny if I were Mrs. Roberts. I never had a nanny.
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Moosepoop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
94. Trying to reconcile different accounts
In the OP, there is the link to time.com and the following snip:

<snip>
"Jack McCay, law partner of Roberts wife Jane and a friend, speaks of the couples adoption of John (Jack) and Josephine, born in Ireland 4 1/2 months apart. As frequently happens when you go through the adoption process, some of the efforts werent successful, and it continued for a time But when the opportunity came along to have not just one but two kids, they took both babies without blinking."

***

This is from the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/23/politics/politicsspec...
<snip>
Friends say she met John G. Roberts in Dewey Beach, Del. "I think she kind of just knew he was the one," said her sister Mary Torre. "He had a great sense of humor, which in an Irish family is very important."

<snip>
In 2000 the couple adopted a daughter, Josephine, and a son, John, through what Ms. Torre said was a private adoption.

***

From Newsweek:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8681534/site/newsweek /

<snip>

Dan Klaidman: There is some disagreement about how involved John Roberts was in the 2000 election overtime. He clearly spent a few days in Florida advising lawyers on their legal strategy. He's one of the most accomplished Republican appellate lawyers, so it was inevitable that they would have turned to him. But his name appears on no briefs and he was not in Florida nearly as long as many of the other GOP lawyers who signed up for battle. Last week I talked to many lawyers who were in Florida at the time. They all remembered that Roberts was there, but other than reading some of the briefs and giving some advice, he did not play a central role. Most also remembered that at the time, Roberts was preoccupied with the adoption of his son and that he was also busily preparing for an unrelated Supreme Court argument back in Washington. Ted Olson has also said that Roberts, along with about 20 other lawyers, participated in a moot court to help him for his oral arguments in the Supreme Court.

***

Here's my question: Since the two children cannot be siblings due to being 4 1/2 months apart in age, how did the adoption of the boy come to include the subsequent adoption of the younger girl, and yet have been handled as ONE private adoption??
Jane Roberts' own sister referred to it as "a" private adoption -- in the singular, not the plural as she would if there had been two separate, private adoptions. Private adoption by its definition means that the birth parents transferred parental rights directly to the adopting parents, without any agencies involved. So how was this done with non-siblings, in one single "transaction" (for lack of a better word)?
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Moosepoop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #94
96. Correction
The girl is the older of the two, not the boy as I said in my previous post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

<snip>
For a long time the adoption process didn't work out, but Roberts never lost hope, Kearns says. Five years ago they adopted a daughter, Josephine, and in less than a year a son, John, and Roberts was suddenly a 45-year-old mother of two infants.

***

But I still want to know how two adoptions involving apparently different birth mothers, months apart, became one private adoption.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #94
97. Thanks.
Interesting. I just keep thinking they're covering something up (I wonder why I would think that). Nothing so dire that would require the children being removed; I think they're a bit creepy but seem to be good enough parents. More likely circumventing some pesky laws that well-connected people like themselves didn't think applied to them.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
103. We are shooting ourselves in the foot with this issue.
Chasing this makes us look desperate. Parties that appear desperate - LOSE.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. We're not chasing this.
The NYTimes is looking into it because they think there might be a story there. If they find something and print it, we will know more. If they don't we will move on to something else.
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