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What is the most libertarian country in the world?

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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:07 PM
Original message
What is the most libertarian country in the world?
They only really seem to occur in science fiction. On earth, maybe, New Zealand? Waziristan? New Hampshire? I don't think any of those qualify either.

It always has seemed like Libertarianism is given a free ride in the media and academia as a coherent philosophy when it has never been implemented in any meaningful way by any society. it seems an unfair standard for the pro government side to compete against.
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Somalia
Very little central government there since 1991. Didn't that work out well.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I rather see it like a feudal islamic country
with no "king"

the concept of a "libertarian" country can only be associated with some kind of democracy

it is doomed to fail, since a society based only on strong individuals and few common "laws" will sooner than later fall into anarchy. Besides it could not stand an invasion.
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puddycat Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. there are different kinds of libertarians
some libertarians are aligned more with Republicans, some others are closer to anarchist type thinking, and that puts them oddly on the left. But there are lots of strange bedfellows in politics, aren't there?
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. There is one kind, (properly) half democrat and half republican.
The republican half is the agreement with republicans that government should intervene minimally in matters of the market. The democrat half is the belief that government should intervene minimally in social matters. Libertarians support gay marriage, abortion, sexual liberties, civil liberties, drug freedoms, market freedoms, etc.
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mixedview Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. We Americans are all "small l" libertarians and small "d" democrats
These are our core values and ideologies, which flow from Jefferson (the ideological father of this country, IMO) to FDR(the ideological father of the modern Democratic Party) to Reagan (the ideological father of the modern GOP).

Our debate simply takes place from the left and right of some libertarian center - and of course this center has moved left and right and left and right over time.

This is an ongoing debate to define what we believe as Americans and libertarians and democratic-republicans...
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Lefta Dissenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. my boss is a Libertarian
and, in fact, ran for Governor of Wisconsin as such.

We have had numerous political discussions in the office, and my point usually ends up returning to the fact that Libertarianism would work well in an ideal world, where you're starting with a clean slate, with logical consequences to one's behavior. But that's not where we are. We are living in the real world, with greed and corruption and pain and suffering.

I'm doing my best to drag him back to his Liberal roots... :)
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I was libertarian, and came back to the Dems.
I have a lot of respect for Libertarians. But what rought me back to this party was simply the terribleness of Bush.
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Even that argument cedes too much ground.
After a generation the clean slate is all messed up again. A child will face the consequences of bad or good decisions of her parents despite the fact such decisions are beyond her control. Some kids will be millionaires at birth with every opportunity handed to them while others will suffer in poverty, and the government of this libertarian utopia will do nothing about it.

Call me a bleeding heart hippie, but I think it's rather callous to make the credo "shit happens" the basis for a political philosophy.
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Lefta Dissenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. You're right, Telly
or is that "bleeding heart hippie?" :hippie:

The other factor that I've brought in is addiction. It's all fine and well to say that drugs should be legalized (and I do think that pot should be legalized), but we're back to the reality that the consequences don't fit the 'crime' if you throw addiction into the equation. That then gives enormous power to the dealer, all the while the user is killing himself with drugs.

Gun control is another of the 'social areas' where we've butted heads.

The trouble is, this guy has run for various offices a few times, not because he expected to get anywhere as a third-party candidate, but because he wanted to be out there, talking about the issues. So he's had years of experience with these discussions, and I've grown up and spent most of my life with Liberals, so I'm not as experienced in sorting through and articulating my arguments. I'm working on it, though, and at least we always have a great time in our discussions.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Loads of little tax havens.
places like luxemborg, or a lot of little caribean places where people buy offshore hosting for sketchy business stuff. On the social side, perhaps Holland, with its legalized pot and prostitution.
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm thinking Sweden, but I may not know what I'm talking about.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Very socialist.
Libertarians believe in small government, but my understanding is that sweden has lots of social programs.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Sweden ? you must be joking
It's the opposite (I lived there) : they have even a stronger central government than France
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I told you I probably didn't know what I was talking about. My bad.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. Somalia. No real government. Just "free enterprise".
Drug/War lords run the country for profit. The most "entrepeneural" with the most guns wins.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. like Afghanistan
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. I am sovereign and my heart is libertarian.
I am free, and i am responsible for all my actions. I answer directly
to my "god" for my crimes and my benevolence. There are no other humans
on this earth, and if they were, my diplomacy corps, explains, that
my sovereign tolerates no slavery, and that i am never to be enslaved
to anothers will, for whatever reason. They may only ask and that i
might negotiate a fair relationship. It is the nature of being sovereign
and free, that the sun is brilliant, the air crisp and the joy in my
heart infinite.

Take the books of laws and burn them, they are an original sin
from the dead and dying from a criminal society of repression and
war, that has killed millions every generation, in its lust to enslave.

There is no power in the world greater than the sovereign human indvidiual... and there never ever will be... so why not empower it
to the utmost and not be foolish.
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joemurphy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Huh? n/t
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. uuuh beavis
i gave it a try... and he say's huh!?

Well in a libertarian world, we move on like ships that meet on
the high seas... so you don't like the curry... i found your
philosophy to stick in one's teeth... and the boats shove away and
on their way.

No slavery.
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joemurphy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. OK Bon voyage! n/t
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. Nowhere!
Libertarianism is theory which has yet to be put into practice anywhere! Sounds great on paper, however, I bet it would about as good as the Soviet Union's brand of Communism. :sarcasm:
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joemurphy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. If it really worked, you'd think it might have been tried somewhere
That's one of its biggest drawbacks. It's an odd mix of laissez faire economic Darwinism and rampant permissive individualism. Like most utopias, it founders when it is tested against human nature.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. russia
they screwed up

went libertarian and now they're run by organized crime

you can have it

they let david duke hide out there 3 years when he was on the lam, wonder how much he paid them
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
24. Left-wing libertarianism or right-wing libertarianism?
Simply refering to "libertarianism" is way to ambiguous.
To many RW-ers sailing under the flag of libertarianism.
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