Did anyone else see Wolfowitz getting thrashed?? (replay at 11:01 tonight)

[SoCalDem]

on American Perspectives?? They set up the interview as a "love-in for him", but there were several people in the audience who kept yelling stuff out and were eventually ejected.. They were yelling out "War Criminal" ...

They made him very uncomfortable.. That's the kind of stuff that needs to happen EVERYWHERE these cretins are invited..:):)

[SoCalDem]

1. A guy just rushed the stage and called him a Nazi Son of a Bitch

Fuck you you nazi ***sucker.. and then they took him away...OH MY !!

[SeveneightyWhoa]

2. HAHAHA!

That would be a MUST to see. If anybody has video of this, lemme know!

[SoCalDem]

3. It's on NOW on cspan

They will probably have a video of it at the website..

I was stunned..:)

He looked so uncomfortable.. :):)

[SeveneightyWhoa]

5. Yeah, I don't have CSpan..

..since I live in Canada. If anyone finds it at the website anytime soon, post the link here!

[eileen_d]

4. Just switched to the channel

It appears to be a repeat from Sunday - and they didn't edit it out? HAHAHAHAHA

[SoCalDem]

7. I found a link in their video section

http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/cspan.csp?command=dprogram&record=169405274

edit.. they want you to BUY the video..


but it's going to replay at 11:01 tonight..

It's worth watching, folks :)

[janekat]

58. THAT was hysterical!!! Now if we could do that to BUSH..... n/t

[impeach the gop]

6. still pounding 911 being the moral clarity

for all the blood shed we are still paying for even if 911 isn't what we're dying for. Just how long have they mentioned osama till yesterday when ratings went down. Now we got weapons of sudam and all kinds of evil nasty things
with in a blink of the eye

[rocktivity]

38. Two-year olds who don't want to eat their peas have moral clarity, too.

Sounds like the town meeting that Victoria Clarke hosted--it ended with everyone chanting, "Impeach!"


rocknation

[treepig]

114. sounds like your two-year olds

need to visualize whirled peas (ack!)

[thebigidea]

8. beautiful

he's talking about freedom n' democracy. PHEW

[jumptheshadow]

9. Ya know...

What the heck did these guys expect with millions of people across the world demonstrating against this war?

Even if the bizarre flower-throwing delusion had materialized, they were baiting themselves for dramatic protests for the rest of their tenure.

[oneighty]

10. No matter

how insensitive one is it has got to hurt, absorbing insults.

180

[Gin]

36. It will take a lot to penetrate those layers of self importance....and....

those exalted egos. I hope I see the day when they are made to do the perp walk and piss in their pants.

[eileen_d]

11. OMG what an ass!

Q: "Are you a neoconservative?"
Wolfowitz: "I don't like labels..."
Audience: (laughter)

[janekat]

28. Ya think he's the antichrist? LOL!

[Loyal]

12. Wolfowitz gives all jews a bad name,

and I don't like it. Not all Jews are warmongers like some would have you believe, just like most Americans aren't warmongers. Wolfowitz is a right wing PNAC extremist and I can't stand him.

[gristy]

13. man, I gotta get cable...

[SoCalDem]

15. tonight you can watch it on your computer

just click the link and select your player and you cvan watch the whole thing on the computer.. It's being replayed at 11:01 (Iassume EST)

www.c-span.org.. find cspan1 and then on the right side of the screen, click your choice of players and there ya go:)

[Imajika]

14. I didn't see it....

...but why do you think it is good to heckle and disrupt anyone?

"but there were several people in the audience who kept yelling stuff out and were eventually ejected"

I find it utterly juvenile when people disrupt forums, debates and speeches.

I don't like it when rightwing wackos do it, I don't like it when Lyndon Lourouche's brainwashed followers do it and I don't like it when the left does it.

Let people have their say. Ask tough questions, protest outside whatever forum a political opponent is appearing at, organize counter speeches and interviews - but there is no reason to interrupt and shout down anyone trying to speak.

"That's the kind of stuff that needs to happen EVERYWHERE these cretins are invited.."

Oh great. Then the right will have open license to do it to all of our speakers EVERYWHERE. This will really help create a civil society. Shout people down we don't agree with. Wonderful.

[thebigidea]

16. because its Wolfowitz

because "first ammendment zones" have insulated these evil bastards from protests.

because Wolfowitz has an active hand in murdering thousands.

because it isn't the time to be civil.

[SoCalDem]

17. I advocate it, ONLY , from the standpoint

that if THEY are to curtail OUR free speech, it might be nice for THEM to feel uncomfortable EVERYWHERE they go.. The Bushistas only appear relaxed and "free" at FAUX..

BTW.. These people who disrtupted, were cheered by the crowd, and they were NOT kids..

It's sad that it has come to this, but sometimes a little civil disobedience is necessary for others to see..

They already DO it to "our speakers":(

[eleny]

18. "Shout people down we don't agree with"

I think the shouting is a backlash from the admin called dissenters unpatriotic and treasonous. Remember when Daschel was called treasonous for his speaking out? So, this is something that's bound to happen now that citizens have found their voice. Civility is wonderful. But that's not the tone the administration set.

Things are going to get a lot more volatile than anything we're seeing these days. Just wait until they reinstitute the draft.

Eleny

[SoCalDem]

20. Don't know about the draft, but *'s campaigning season

should be verrrry interesting.. I bet those "supporters" are gonna get awfully tired of riding around of those buses...

I hope the ACLU case gets worked out before the campaigning begins in earnest..

These freaks should be hounded...everywhere they go.. They have gotten a free ride for long enough..

I really feel, that is the press had covered things fairly, people would not be so outraged..

It's the outrage that makes people do things like this.. The people who were led out were middle aged and even older.. They did not look like radical anarchists..

OOOH... question time.. This could be interesting :)

[rasputin1952]

42. I believe in Free Speech...

and will use wherever and whenever I can.

I prefer to use common discourse, but I have been known to get into some 'interesting' match-ups. Most of my feelings on Civil Disobedience came from when some in my community followed the RWnuts lead, and called me unpatriotic for 'going against the president'.

At the next meeting, I brought along my old uniform and laid it out on a chair with my DD-214. I stood up and asked anyone if they questioned my patriotism, and if the did, what could they show me that proved they were more 'patriotic' than I.

I then stated that I would like to see gw bush's uniform, and DD-214.

There was silence.....until a little girl said, "Thank You, and welcome home". I smiled, and said "Thank You, it's good to be home, among friends". The rest of the night went well....and I even got some of the Nebraska natives to admit they couldn't stand bush!

Speak up, tell the truth, and don't fall into the trap of 'fear' the GOP uses to ensnare victims.

[Eloriel]

47. That's a GREAT story

I love the part about the little girl. Thanks for sharing it.

Eloriel

[rasputin1952]

88. Thank you...

she was a little sweetie, about 8 or 9 yo. It was all I could do to keep from crying when she said that.

Funny how the little things that make us feel good come from those who are least biased in their views. Children are great for that.

[LoZoccolo]

19. I like civil discourse too...

...but you have to remember what it was like back in March when dissent was being stifled, the Dixie Chicks, the right-wing talkers on the radio calling us un-American, telling lies about our intentions, and all the dodgy ways they try to avoid listening to us. You have to remember the press conferences where the reporters are afraid to ask good questions for fear of losing access, and that last one where they called it too quick for them to even think of good questions and they preselected the reporters to call on. You have to remember that John Ashcroft is running around promoting the Patriot act, and print reporters aren't allowed to ask him questions, only TV ones.

If they don't want to fight a war of this type, with people engaging in civil disobediance, and these sort of tactics, they shouldn't have declared one.

On edit: and even if particular people in this administration didn't do that directly, they should have done more about the people doing the "dirty work" that was stifling dissent.

[LoZoccolo]

21. That having been said...

...I actually am conflicted on what's appropriate and not. It's an ambiguous thing to me because dissent and even outright disobedience is encoded in our founding document, the Declaration of Independance.

[LoZoccolo]

31. THAT having been said...

...if people are going to do this, I at /least/ don't want it to be done promoting Lyndon LaRouche's organization at the same time!

[SoCalDem]

32. I hear ya.. They do that on Washington Journal too

someone will call in with scathing remarks and then they take it one step too far... Stealth is the best way.. Twist their OWN words against them.. State your case, and let the thought percolate.. Sometimes people get carried away, I guess.:shrug:

[sendero]

111. as soon as dissenters...

... are given equal time in the questioning, then it won't be necessary to be disruptive. I think your position is naive, and the Dem/Liberal/Progressive tendency to want to be fair and civil is one of the main reasons we have so little power now.

[KoKo]

22. Hey SoCal! Me and your "Gorilla" WISH YOU THE BEST! TAHITI!

Safe trip! And, tell me....is you're hubby really taking that suede jacket.....???

I know......he just liked it.......

Seriously......have a wonderfull......restfull...Inspiring trip! Or just loll around the beach and veg...in lah.lah land! whatever....

Best to You! Good Memories....and FUN.......Most of ALL FUN!

koko

[SoCalDem]

27. He's just hoping for cool weather here

He's taking the swimsuit and shorts, but leaving the suede here :)

I will try to get some good pics to post when I get back.. We even bought an underwater camera.. we'll see how they turn out :eyes:

[KoKo]

30. ROFL! And thanks........know what you mean.....believe me!

To you and your hubbie and Mr. G.! Boy Voyage.....

[eleny]

23. A PNAC Question!????

[SoCalDem]

25. and the audience is snickering and laughing at Wolfie..

Wooooooohooooo..

No more "open forums" for him :)

[eleny]

26. yeah, i doubt it

what does he expect from folks in nyc (my home town!)

[ronzo]

24. This is good stuff !!!

He can't catch a break.

[eleny]

29. He is *so bitchy to people asking questions

What a little lord fontleroy.

[lumpy]

33. I was impressed by some of the questions asked of

that miserable little man. He did have a difficult time answering some of the questions, having to resort to platitudes used consistently by the Bushco members. He really goofed up by trying to subtley slam Islam. Happily the audience did give the Wolf a bad time, no one deserves it better than him. Worth watching.

[Gin]

34. I love it when we see them sweat....he was and is a pompous ass

gin

[Judi Lynn]

35. Thanks for the information

Caught just part of it, would not miss the replay tonight for a huge Bush tax cut.

A life-restoring program for anyone beaten down by PNAC nightmares!

[latebloomer]

37. He's a war criminal

And people should hear about it!

[newyorican]

39. Question one...

Will the mediawhores use the footage to humiliate the Bush administration?

[AntiCoup2K4]

40. Yeah right. More like FAUX's airheads will use it to show

Liberals' "irrational hatred" for the Bush Jr administration :eyes:

[SoCalDem]

41. ~~~~~~~HEADS UP...FOR THE RE-PLAY

MUST SEE TV :)


11:01 pm
1:21 (est.)
Interview
Policy Toward Iraq
New Yorker Festival
Paul Wolfowitz , Department of Defense
Jeffrey Goldberg , New Yorker Magazine

[ElsewheresDaughter]

43. C-Span has video ...you can watch/listen while on DU... but i recomend CBC

Panel on the Iraq War ..everyone must see this one!

http://www.c-span.org/

[gristy]

46. shoot I don't see it

where on the c-span page? Under latest video? Most watched video? What's the title/description?

Thx

on edit: OK I found it. "Live" c-span

[SoCalDem]

48. regular c-span page... left side..cspan 1

the choose your player(on the right side)

[janekat]

50. Where's that? Can't find it. What's the title? n/t

[SeveneightyWhoa]

44. Watch NOW

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan_wm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

[eileen_d]

45. He is getting booed IMMEDIATELY

Audience: "You're a war criminal! You're a war criminal!"

Moderator: "Cell phones off, please."

[ElsewheresDaughter]

56. sreaming "HE'S A WAR CRIMINAL"..another one "YOU NAZI SON OF A BITCH...

FUCK YOU YOU NAZI MURDRER...YOU SON OF A BITCH..NAZI ..."

whoah he is being shown just how we feel about this admin...i hope he learns a lesson here...may he have a change of heart...sigh

[SoCalDem]

49. More LINKS... watch on your computer

http://play.rbn.com/?url=cspan/g2cspan/live/cspan1-g2.rm

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

[Loyal]

51. Dude, I just saw the man rush the stage!

That was hilarious I must say. :)

[Loyal]

52. LMAO!

He's a war criminal! I agree with that guy!

[Loyal]

54. I know I'm posting again,

but I really respect that guy for calling Paul what he is. He's not a Nazi son of a bitch, but he definitely is a son of a bitch and a war criminal.

[janekat]

53. He's so arrogant....

[gristy]

55. collateral damage

The Wolf mentioned that 50 million Iraqi's who can speak out now "without having their tongues cut out".

I guess 50,000 to 100,000 Iraqi's killed qualifies as justifiable "collateral damage". Huh, Wolf?

[rasputin1952]

90. When the Wolf made that statement...

about having "tongues cut out", it made me wonder what they were doing to those two guys they escorted out?

Were they just put into the street, or did they become punching bags, or were they arrested? Made me wonder if there were some dudes in turbans with pliers and knives in the hallway.

None of that Free Speech stuff for this admin......arrogant asshole!

[MoonRiver]

57. I'm watching it now. Thanks for posting about the event.

THANK GOD BRAVE PEOPLE ARE DOING WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO TO BRING THESE FASCIST CRIMINALS AND THEIR WAR CRIMES INTO THE PUBLIC ARENA.

I can barely stand to listen to that scum of the earth talk. But at least HE IS BEING CONFRONTED WITH HIS CRIMES. :mad: as hell, am I.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

61. OMFG! he just called himself "a democratic realist and JFK would support h

him and what they have done in Iraq"....holy shit the man is INSANE :puke:

[MoonRiver]

62. I've been screaming my head off since I heard that piece of caca

spew those lies upon lies. Everything he acuses others of, he and his BFEE partners in mass murder HAVE BEEN AND STILL ARE COMMITTING on an ongoing basis!

[dArKeR]

59. Not worth listening to. Worth protesting though!

[gristy]

60. There's the key

"Terrorism is not something that you live with" "It's too dangerous" "Need to prevent it"

The man's view of the world and solutions to terrorism are clearly very limited.

[Loyal]

63. Liberals should support this, according to Wolfowitz?

I'm sorry, Wolfowitz, but I will never support the killing of innocents.

[RainDog]

64. We are watching the same program

...and we are seeing different things.

I turned on the program after I saw this thread.

When the New Yorker writer was trying to introduce Wolfowitz, a couple or few people, sounded like guys, were yelling from the back of the room "You're a war criminal."

As the guy tried to continue the introduction, he was repeatedly interrupted by the yells. First he asked the people to respect the rights of others to speak..something like that.. but the people who were yelling would start up again.

The audience members asked the hecklers to stop, and they wouldn't. A woman in the audience said that the hecklers were denying the right to free speech by their actions and the audience applauded. One man kept saying War Criminal! He's a War Criminal" and a woman in the audience said, "Get some medication" and the audience laughed.

Nevertheless, the heckling continued..and this was as the interviewer was simply trying to introduce Wolfowitz.

Wolfowitz waited patiently. He did not come off looking bad during this...the people who disrupted did.

Another man who was part of the festival came forward and said that anyone who disrupts again would be removed. The audience clapped.

Shortly afterward, one heckler started again and he was removed from the room, yelling as he went.

Wolfowitz started to speak and another man came into the camera range at the front of the stage. The thing I heard him say was "Seig Heil" and War Criminal. He was immediately taken away by security and the Wolfowitz said "That's what the Nazis were doing...trying to deny people their right to speak."

So I don't know how effective that whole moment was. It may make people hear happy to feel some revenge, but it doesn't "play well."

I'm still watching, and some people have started calling out names again as Wolfowitz speaks.

He's gotten light applause for some of the things he's said. He's not taking questions yet.

[gristy]

66. I'm ignoring the hecklers for the most part

Listen to the Wolf.

on edit: I think the hecklers are applying just the right amount of pressure. It is not nonstop. They are allowing both to speak. But the Wolf is getting critical feedback on his views. Feedback that he doesn't get when he sits in his policy meetings up in Washington.

[MoonRiver]

68. He doesn't have to LOOK bad. He IS bad. Just LOOK at what he's done

BFEE = axIS of evil

[ElsewheresDaughter]

69. raindog..say what??? i'm watching also and wolfie has gotten NO applause!

none! nada! zip! zero! applause...

[RainDog]

72. when he talked about Arab...democrats, I think it was

who supported the Bush junta actions.

light applause, not roaring approval.

and one other time before that.

the biggest applause so far has been for the removal of the hecklers.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

80. IS HE CHANINGING ANY MINDS? oh boy...audience question time coming up

fasten your seatbelt wolfie!

[thebigidea]

102. ahhh

"but it doesn't "play well.""

how does the continued murder of Iraqi citizens play? Well? Medium well?

This monster deserves worse than a few hecklers - he needs a war crimes tribunal.

[RainDog]

108. I don't disagree with you, but

there are many who do not want to think of this invasion as an illegal action and those are the ones I'm talking about when I say it doesn't play well.

This is a point which is continually lost on people who are so angry that they cannot see the way in which their arguments are lost because they are not taking into consideration where their target for info is mentally and emotionally.

That's the point I was trying to make.

Being right is part of the issue in a democracy. You also have to inform people of why you are right in a way they can understand in order to overcome lies of powerful people.

Hecklers, after a point, gain sympathy for the bad guys, too often, in a forum like the one where Wolfowitz spoke.

That's my opinion, but maybe it's also true.

[thebigidea]

109. those "many" are shrinking rapidly

"there are many who do not want to think of this invasion as an illegal action and those are the ones I'm talking about when I say it doesn't play well."

Are these the same "many" who think Saddam is responsible for 9/11?
Nothing short of a idiot cowboy who can't say "nuclear" will "play well" with this crowd. A polite Alan Colmes squeaking and cowering won't do the trick.

"Hecklers, after a point, gain sympathy for the bad guys, too often, in a forum like the one where Wolfowitz spoke."

the crowd was cheering.

[gristy]

65. Talking of Iraq

"by the way did have contacts with Al Quida" "We don't know how clear they were"

These guys just don't give up the deception.

More lies now... All lies all the time.

I can't listen to much more of this. The audience is getting restless again too.

[Pastiche423]

67. Listen to this man

This is a man that clark likes and would like to work w/again.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pastiche423]

77. I din't say I liked and would like to work w/wolfie again

clark did and it is on record.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MoonRiver]

89. The article you link to is paid subscriber only. Care to copy and paste?

Cause I'm not going to spend good money reviewing Repuke propaganda.

[noiretextatique]

92. actually, it's not propaganda

just a quote from clark, kissing ass. it doesn't mean much, imho...just the non-partisan kind of ass-kissing that goes on all the time. someone posted a thread about this...it has a bunch of quotes from other democrats praising the likes of rumsfield, todd-whitman and other bush, inc minions.

[Pastiche423]

96. Due to copyright rules

the article can not be copied in its entirety.

I copied this from a post here a few days ago. You can do a DU search to see if there is more.

Gen. Wesley Clark, unplugged" by Jake Tapper, Salon 3/24/2003

(snip)

Tapper:

"Of the people who are running this war, from Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld and Powell on down, in terms of the political appointees, are there are any who you particularly like who you would work with again, hypothetically, in some ..."

Clark:

"I like all the people who are there. I've worked with them before. I was a White House Fellow in the Ford administration when Secretary Rumsfeld was White House chief of staff and later Secretary of Defense, and Dick Cheney was the deputy chief of staff at the White House and later the chief.

Paul Wolfowitz I've known for many, many years. Steve Hadley at the White House is an old friend. Doug Feith I worked with very intensively during the time we negotiated the Dayton Peace Agreement; he was representing the Bosnian Muslims then, along with Richard Perle. So I like these people a lot. They're not strangers. They're old colleagues.

http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2003/03/24/clark

[Zorra]

73. He's full of...

fear, his voice is quavering, and he's lying like a rug. I'm listening right now. He's lying. Can you believe he was once a Democrat?

[MoonRiver]

74. He figured out which party represented his true scumbag ideology.

Glad he removed himself from the democratic party, IF he's telling the truth.

[gristy]

78. Yes, anything coming out of his mouth may be a lie

He doesn't care if he tells the truth or lies. He doesn't lie all the time, since sometimes he can make a point without lying. But a lie is just as easy as the truth for him.

Saying there were 3 reasons to invade:

WMD
Terrorism
Human rights

Q: "Where are the WMD?"

A: "Rarely seen the intelligence community as unanimous that Hussein had WMDs"

Q: "Did the CIA simply mess up"

A: "Being wrong not the same as messing up. Iraq is a hard target. Very hard for intelligence to penetrate" "If Saddam really had no WMD program he certainly paid a high price for not allowing inspectors to determine that (I'm paraphrasing now...)"

The Wolf is actually admitting here that THEY DIDN'T KNOW. THEY WERE FUCKING GUESSING.

My understanding is that Hussein HAD given the inspectors absolutely free reign over the country at the time of our invasion.

More shouting. The moderator is very cool.

[Rose Siding]

98. He lied when he said

he hadn't considered invading Iraq until after Sept 11. The conclusion of Bush's cabinet in March 01 was that military action might be necessary in order to stabilize the region. He was also a pnac signatory, wasn't he? Didn't that letter promote invasion?

[gristy]

71. He said the University was back open before the end of

the school year last July so the students could graduate. Would that be the university that was looted in May/June? Furniture, computers, light fixtures, everything that wasn't bolted down?????

:wtf:

[RainDog]

75. WMDs

avoided answering "where are" first.

giving the reasons for invasion as though that invalidates the lies???

[RainDog]

81. used the Bush trick

said Iraq "had" WMD...did not specify a time.

Saddam was working on a nuclear program.

the way he approached the issue was all about justification for an action which was taken by lying to the American people, and no matter what the junta may try to make everyone else believe, the Machiavellian political philosophy that a benign tyrant has the right to lie to his subjects flies in the face of democracy.

And as far as the schools..if Riverbend, a young woman in Iraq doing a blog called Baghdad Burning is a good source, women are not going to school because their families are afraid of kidnappings and because the fundamentalists are starting to harass women who are fully veiled and covered.

[Ilsa]

76. He and Rummy were reading off the same sheet:

When Rumsfeld got heckled a few weeks ago, he said almsot exactly the same thing that Wolfie just said, about how great America is to have free speech and isn't it wonderful that the Iraqis and Afghanistanians have free speech now? Absolutely revolting. Must be new talking points.

[Zorra]

79. Charles Taylor, Liberia - Wolfy just said...

that the US got Taylor out of Liberia. Were we sponsoring the rebels and were not told about it?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

82. the pecker just denied PNAC and being a planer of their programs...LIAR!!!

said just because i put my name on a few papers????

wolfie is worried ...otherwise he wouldn't have done this interview...believe me BUSHCO IS GOING DOWN!

[Pastiche423]

83. He also claimed

the documents he signed were back during bush I's admin.

Did someone forge his signsture on the 1997 documents?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

84. what's up with wolfie placing one hand in the other ...studying his finger

tips....... arrogantlyly...like a caeser

[RainDog]

86. End of the interview

"like to thank Dr. Wolfowitz for coming"

and he was both clapped and booed...lots of booing, but there were supporters there too.

a woman in the audience yelled out for him to resign.

one guy asked a good question just before the end about the British occupation of Iraq and their killing of Iraqis, and the approximately 1000 Iraqis killed according to Fisk, and the killings that continue..and asked how Wolfowitz could justify the invasion as something which supports human rights.

wolfowitz always answered all these questions by talking about Saddam...the killing that Saddam did.

His implication, of course, is that if Americans are doing the killing for "democracy" then it's okay.

[paulsbc]

91. i'm in the minority

but I found him very articulate, very understanding and patient on a very difficult stage and circumstance, and he made his case well.

I was initially for the war, due to Saddam's history, have been veering away from that support since the entire party (and this board in particuar that I enjoy reading) is so anti-Bush, anti-Iraq action, etc., but now find myself back in the support mode, and a lot of what he said made a lot of sense.

Nothing that the Nazi-calling, war-criminal shouting disruptors or Larouche shills made any sense, nor was it appropriate, and just really turns me off to that view, even if it may have some merit.

I suppose it is just the liberal in me coming out, the side that wants to help the oppressed and people living under a brutal rule that wins out over whatever reason Bush & co may have had going into Iraq. This is combined with what I heard Putin say earlier today regarding Bush and his relationship keeping Russia out of the Afghanistan conflict after 9/11...

I'm sure I'm the only one here that has these thoughts though :)

[SoCalDem]

94. "Oppressed" is hardly the word that comes to mind regarding Wolfie

To each his own :)

[paulsbc]

100. i meant the

Iraqi people, not Wolfowitz...

The Iraqi people were oppressed, do you not agree?

Is not freeing them from that oppression good thing?

I say it is, and I wish the US would take the same approach with people in THIS country who are hurting and do more to help them.

[SoCalDem]

101. The Iraqi people have been oppressed for over THIRTY years

as have the Cuban people, and the Iranian people, and the Chinese people, and the North Korean people..

There are always oppressed people, and more times than not, WE are the ones sending goodies to their oppressors..:(


GWB KNOWS that if he had gone to congress or the "murkan people and said.."Hey, them Eye-rackees are a real oppressed bunch of folks, and I think we need to get rid of Saddam", we all know what the answer would have been...

It's all about the DECEIT... Remember the Repube mantra during Clinton's admin??.. "It's about the LYING".. Well it's STILL about the lying.. Clinton may have lied, but Georgie Porgie's lies are getting people KILLED.. and making things a whole lot worse than they were before..

Saddam was "in a box" before.. He could not budge an inch without getting bombed, but now he's nowhere to be found, there are snipers at every window, the UN is getting suicide bombed and the whole place is overrun with wacky terra-ists..

The everyday people are in worse living conditions than ever, and they blame US..

And now the rumblings indicate that he may do the same for Iran and/or Syria..:(

[imax2268]

95. all's I'm seeing is...

The surgeon general...???

[SoCalDem]

97. It was on at 11 pm eastern time..

They will probably re-play it.. It's called American Perspectives..

Look for this on the schedule

Interview
Policy Toward Iraq
New Yorker Festival
Paul Wolfowitz , Department of Defense
Jeffrey Goldberg , New Yorker Magazine

[imax2268]

99. if anyone

get's a video out there somewhere...please post it...

[thebigidea]

103. very articulate

Hitler was very good with children.

"but now find myself back in the support mode, and a lot of what he said made a lot of sense."

So PNAC, that whole "transformation of the ME" thing, the Domino Regime Change Theory - that all makes a lot of sense?

"so anti-Bush, anti-Iraq action, etc"

are you suggesting we should be a bit LESS anti-Bush, anti-Iraq action?

[RainDog]

112. paulsbc

I understand your reaction totally. That was a point I was trying to make last night.

However, he did lie outright many times in his speech, and when he was called (politely, by the interviewer and questioners) on very important issues about this war, he would use the psychological trick of avoiding an answer about HIS actions and refer to Saddam.

I am absolutely no fan of Saddams. However, Bush (led by Wolfowitz and Cheney) wanted to invade Iraq. They were unwilling to use the increased pressure and cooperation from other nations which was newly available after 9-11 to change the situation in Iraq without an invasion and without the anarchy which is now in charge.

Before the war, I was opposed for many reasons, chief among them being these:

1. Even if an invasion of Iraq were justified, this gang in the White House were the WRONG ONES to do this because of their record and continued pattern of corruption at the highest levels over issues of free elections here, Enron-style pandering here, lies to justify abuses of power which have been unheard of since the Nixon era, and because they do not present to the world an image of America which is capable of negotiating a peaceful solution to so many of the problems which inflame the Middle East.

2. Wolfowtiz lied about PNAC and their ideology, as well as the ideology of those like Ledeen who are part of this gang's philosophical foundations. They use words like democracy and human rights as covers for abuses. Look at the way they carried out this invasion to see this.

first the lies about "being welcome with flowers...blah, blah" AFTER more than five generals said this invasion was a bad idea because it would destablize the country and most likely lead to civil war and an increase in terrorism. CIA intel said the same.
Rummy prosecuted this war in a horrible way which resulted in greater loss of life than necessary, which resulted in nuclear waste facilities being plundered, which has resulted in greater oppression of women.

Yes, it takes time for these things. However, the Bush gang did not lay the foundation in advance.

They told the rest of the world to get fucked because they wanted their invasion on their timetable...which was no doubt influenced by such humanitarian issues as Bush's re-election and how to pander to those muslim-hating fundamentalists who also want to bring their version of hell to earth via the self-fulfilling (with Bush in office) prophecy of Armeggeddon.

As is painfully clear, this nation should not act alone in these circumstances. We do need the time consuming act of census building with other nations, not bribery to try to make us not look like illegal invaders.

We have to win the war of hearts and minds. If we only win the ground war, we will still lose. Again, Iraq has shown, thus far, what happens when you proceed as this gang has done. We cannot win the war of hearts and minds by looting a country via Halliburton, etc.

Wolfowitz makes a point that if, at this time, the U.S. leaves, greater oppression could fall upon Iraq...but more likely, it seems, is an extended civil war between Ba'athists and fundamentalist Shi'a...and I don't know if our presence will stop that anyway.

I do think that Bush further screwed this country by failing to make concessions to the U.N. leaders, to admit he needs to be a part of the world community. Bush seems, in effect, to have signed the death warrant for untold numbers of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians with that action.

Which again leads me back to my first point... even if removing Saddam were a good idea, these people are not the ones to do it. They are failures in international diplomacy. They have made the world a more unstable, rather than safer place, via their actions.

For this reason, if they could simply be removed for gross incomptence, I think we and the entire world would be better off.

Unfortunately, it seems our democracy doesn't allow that. So we have to look at individual actions which warrant removal of these people in order to restore the rest of the world's faith in America's fundmental belief in democracy and human rights.

Without those, we will never win the war on terrorism.

[gristy]

113. great post

just great.

[WaterDog]

93. I guess

I turned the channel too soon. I just can't stand his whiny drivelly voice.

[Judi Lynn]

104. Did anyone notice that as he was leaving the stage

A man was standing in the aisle, with his back to the stage, taking photos of the audience? He was very obvious about it.

My first thought was actually they were trying to identify the hecklers by getting their photos. I would NOT put this past them at this point. He took quite a while, photographing the crowd.

Shudder.

[dArKeR]

105. Why is Wolfowitz brave to go on CSPAN as the host said? Get me his name

Jeff? from the New Yorker?

I want to email this guy!

Why are government officials brave to face the citizens of America?

I want to email pound the host! HELP!

[SoCalDem]

106. Here's his name

Interview
Policy Toward Iraq
New Yorker Festival
Paul Wolfowitz , Department of Defense
Jeffrey Goldberg , New Yorker Magazine

Lots of info on him here

[dArKeR]

107. Thanks a bunch!

[dArKeR]

110. Dems get organized in these events. Everyone shout the same thing the

same time. 'Resign, Resign, Resign' or 'Liar liar liar'...

When everyone is shouting something different the mic doesn't pick it up.

Did you notice at the end of the show many people were shouting and the guards came down but you could see obvious confusion of the guards because they couldn't figure out who to escort out. If one person shouting solo it's too easy for the guards to escort you out. It's like lions isolating one Zerbra. But if everyone is in a pack at the same time there's not much they can do.

(And I'm not suggesting anything illegal. As long you don't break the law. If the Repukes who busted into the Florida recount building and mugged the election officials and shouted them down face to face wasn't illegal then I think what happend on CSPAN surely wasn't illegal.

I would suggest no one ever admit you're just reading a question, as that one girl did. Bluff! Say you wrote this down yourself so you didn't forget.

I would never smile, laugh or joke with a Repuke on the panel. Nothing they same is worth any value, intellectual or humor. These are dirty lying murderers and deserve no respect and keep that look on your face and tone in your voice.

And never do anything illegal.

I'm really pround of you guys!