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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:12 PM
Original message
7 bullets to the head ?? 8 total shots ??
Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 08:13 PM by Postman
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't understand it
I wrote in another thread (that mentioned *5* shots) that it's bizarre, though 8 makes more sense than 5 I suppose. In training here in Ohio, law enforcement learns to pop off two shots consecutively. I still can't imagine feeling the need to pump 7 bullets in a man's brain.
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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. If it's a bomb suspect they are trained to shoot for the head.
And if he actually DID have a bomb, I think it would be best to make sure he's dead.

However, they should have done a little more thinking before they started the shooting.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I understand that part, in this case
Aiming for the head. It's still mad overkill. And I agree there should've been more thought.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Question ...
I'm already pissed off/terrified about this whole thing, but I'm starting to notice something conspicuously absent from most of the stories I've read. This particular story mentions it in the same way most others do, "Witnesses reported that when challenged <Mr De Menezes> jumped over the ticket barriers and bolted down an escalator, looking like a "petrified rabbit".

My question is what was the nature and specific circumstances of this challenge?

This story did highlight something that my mind hadn't fully grasped before for some reason. What I normally read is something like this, the summary from the end of the article: "He was tailed by an undercover squad as he traveled two miles by bus to Stockwell tube." What I haven't noticed was an additional word from the beginning of the article, in the following paragraph:

"The details of the number of rounds emptied into the 27-year-old Brazilian electrician after his pursuit through Stockwell station by an armed plainclothes squad emerged at the opening of an inquest into his death yesterday."

Again, what was the nature of the challenge? Did Mr. Menezes notice a group of people in suits and unmarked cars tailing him from his home and start wondering just who the hell these thugs were, start running when he realized he was not paranoid and these people really were following, and then hear something like "this is the police" from behind him? I'm sorry, but does any sane individual actually believe that after being panicked to the point of initiating the "fight or flight" response that a shouted "this is the police" would actually suddenly calm you down?

Are these kinds of questions being asked, I wonder?

Naturally some of the above is based on inferrences from too little direct information, and I would like to know if anyone has any clarification on this.

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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Some of the witnesses said there was no verbal police identification.
They just put hats on that said police and told the guy to stop. Seems he had been mugged recently too. Then there were all those nuts planting bombs in the underground.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Nuts planting bombs ...

See, there's another thought I've been having.

Much has been made of how well the London population has been dealing with all this, but let's get real for a moment. Some pretty serious crap's been going on. What would any reasonable individual who knows he hasn't done anything wrong and has lived through the recent bombings think when a bunch of guys start chasing you throug the underground?

Hell, I start walking faster when I notice someone is looking in my general direction.

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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. I read that too
And that is the problem. Cripies, if I saw a gaggle of men with guns coming at me I'd run like hell too.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Whatever happened to rubber bullets..... (Warning Graphic)
They leave a pretty nice mark.... guaranteed to take you down....

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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I think the idea is
Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 08:33 PM by ohio_liberal
that head shots will prevent a suicide bomber from tripping a bomb and the police will not accidentally set off a bomb with a shot to the torso.

edited for clarity
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Well howdy.... 7 of them rubber bullets to the head.... and you
Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 08:32 PM by 4MoronicYears
won't be pulling any tripwires... but you will be tripping for a couple of hours.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. 7 rubber-coated bullets to the head
at close distance would probably still be fatal, I'm afraid. A rubber bullet is meant to be "behavior modification" used at some distance, not close range, and especially not in a crowd of civilians in a subway. Imagine one of them bouncing off the ground and taking out Granny on her way to bible study.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Rubber headshots kill, too
Just ask Israel when they blast a little Palestinian boy for chucking a rock at a tank.
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jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yep...This is exactly what the terroists want
I just hope there is a lull in bombings or London risks falling over the cliff into madness. I spoke to a relative living there today and its a city in fear. All the talk about being normal is hard to do when you feel under siege.

She was on the underground this morning and a bearded arabic looking man got on. At the next stop half the car got out and then went back into a car further down the line.

All this stuff: The fear, the police over-reactions, is what they wanted to achieve and it seems to have worked :(
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. This enforces learned helplessness in the target population
and that means anyone who is not a cop -- will fear that if they don't "obey" all the "rules" they could be shot in the head and people will respond --

well the person looked "strange" was wearing something lumpy and "could have been" a threat. . .

Everyone will look carefully at strangers or the "other" -- and everyone will be a suspect in the eyes of the world.

More dead people -- oops -- well that person "could have . . might have . . . been a terrorist."

We are entering a dangerous time -- too many people -- mob hysteria takes over -- and this is how people can be rules through their own fears of the "other".

People learn to passively submit to searches -- to having every minute detail about their lives places in huge government databases -- which can be hacked or sold to corporations. People submit because it "makes them feel safer".

This is how huge populations are controlled by the few very rich capitalists -- like the bush/blair crime family.

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