Muslim Brotherhood, Nazis and Al Qaeda

[Zorbuddha]

Speech by John Loftus, former U.S. Deputy Attorney General

snip

I had an unusual education in the Holocaust. When I was working for the Attorney General, I was assigned to do the classified research about the Holocaust, so I went underground to a little town called Suitland, Maryland, right outside Washington, D.C. and that's where the US Government buries its secrets - - literally.

There are twenty vaults underground and each vault is one acre in size. Anyone see the movie “Raiders of the Lost Ark”? The last scene of that movie is what the underground vaults are really like, only not as organized as they are in the movie. And in those underground vaults I discovered something horrible.

I learned that many of the Nazis that I had been assigned to prosecute were on the CIA payroll, but the CIA didn't know they were Nazis because the British Intelligence Service had lied to them. What the British Intelligence Service didn't know was that their liar was Kim Philby, the Soviet communist double agent -- a little scandal of the Cold War. But our State Department swept it all under the rug and allowed the Nazis to stay in America until I was stupid enough to go public with it.

snip

Let me give you an example. This year a friend of mine from the CIA, named Bob Baer wrote a very good book about Saudi Arabia and terrorism, it's called “Sleeping with the Devil.” I read the book and I got about a third of the way through and I stopped. Bob was writing how when he worked for the CIA how bad the files were.

snip

http://www.navyseals.com/community/articles/article.cfm?id=4328

[Zorbuddha]

1. Moderator. I meant to post this in the Articles forum

Would it be ok if I reposted it there so it won't get buried and leave this one going for immediate discussion? Or should I delete this one?

[lildreamer316]

2. HUGE kick & recomended. n/t

[Zorbuddha]

5. Thanks

Any insights?

[leveymg]

3. What SIS didn't realize was that Philby and the other Fab 5 had been

compromised by their NKVD control agent, Orlov, when he was "turned" during a visit to the US in 1934. From that point forward, the whole show was being run from NY and DC as a CI disinformation operation -- the British spy scandal, the penetration of the Abwehr, and the intel reaching the Soviets -- it was all a set-up.

Thank Orlov for the fact we won World War II and the Cold War.

[Zorbuddha]

4. Your insight is appreciated

Any further analysis you might offer would be welcomed by me.

[leveymg]

9. Read Gazur's. "Alexander Orlov: The FBI's KGB General" and

Trento's "The Secret History of The KGB". You will also need to read some of the better books about Philby and the penetration of SIS to appreciate the extent to which the Americans have run British intelligence from WWI forward, while letting them think it was the other way around.

As far as US-UK intel is concerned, Verona was a secondary secret. The Orolov-Philby operation, the stuff that happened during the Wilson era, and most recently the July bombings, these require MI-5/6 reexamine the relationship.

[Zorbuddha]

16. Thanks, that's more like it.

How about some more? You have a remarkable handle on this.

[MaryBear]

6. Interesting.

Is the source trustworthy?

[Zorbuddha]

7. Deputy Atty General?

You decide.

[MaryBear]

8. Well, Gonzales is our current Atty General . . .

the job doesn't necessarily give one credibility.

[Jack Rabbit]

10. Excellent point, MaryBear

And let's not forget other members of the Attorney General hall of shame . . .

John Mitchell
Ed Meese
William French Smith
Harry Daugherty

That last one's for real history buffs.

[Art_from_Ark]

38. Harry Daugherty-- Harding's AG who, um, "set the standard"

for corruption and incompetence of future Republican Attorneys General

[Zorbuddha]

44. Well, he did a fine and effective job

of that.

[Zorbuddha]

12. Yeah, I understand, and John Mitchell was no prince

wasn't he AG? And Ed Meese? John Ashcroft...

But the point is John Loftus appears to be a decent man from the tone and substance of this speech, but I can't vouch for him.

[formernaderite]

11. John loftus is a bit of a conspiracy theorist....

and I used to listen to him as a guest on Batchellor and Alexander...which is now a solo venture...and don't recall any theory of his ever coming to fruition. He also claims to be a democrat, but continually trashes them and puts them down. Not to poo poo the article, but it's not like we don't already know that the terrorists are Islamofascists and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem story isn't new either...just a part of history.

[Zorbuddha]

14. All opinions of conspiracies are theories

but you might be right.

It is important for Democrats to be critical of Democrats in order to sharpen things. Lord knows we get all over Dems that disappoint us here.

It would be interesting to hear the claims he makes analyzed by someone with insight, which isn't me. Sad to say.

sp

[MaryBear]

19. I didn't mean to imply he is not credible.

Just don't know that he is, and wondered. And the deputy AG didn't wash as a legitimizing role.

I don't think this is a story of conspiracy, actually. If true, it is a story of natural progression of an ideology. How much is valid history I don't know, but it makes a certain sense. If not actual descendents of Nazism, al qaeda is definitely a plausable pretender.

[Zorbuddha]

22. Well it always comes down to opinion

There is no badge of legitimacy that I know of.

leveymg is the one to ask.

Your points are well-taken by me, but I can't help you.

[leveymg]

17. Loftus has always been straight. Please say where he's been

in error.

[Zorbuddha]

20. Your quote was truncated

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbec

How does it end?

[leveymg]

23. I love these existential questions. Let's keep it on the operational

level, for now, shall we?

[Zorbuddha]

25. Sorry, I got distracted

It was an interesting quote, and I wanted to add it to my collection.

I'm not very operationally oriented. Obviously.

[leveymg]

27. Okay. Who are you?

You seem to know a fair amount, too.

[Zorbuddha]

28. Isn't that what the caterpillar asked Alice?

I only know that I don't know much. I'm just trying to learn.

If I was somebody, I'd fess up.

[seemslikeadream]

13. The C.I.A. & The Muslim BrotherhoodHow the CIA set the stage for Sept11

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2268109

CIA & The Muslim Brotherhood How the CIA set the stage for 9/11 Pt.2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2272207

[SpiralHawk]

15. "I led three lives"

Blast from the past.

[Jara sang]

18. Suitland is the location of the Office of Naval Intelligence

At the National Martime Intelligence Center. Arguably the ONI has just as much power as the CIA and it has been around a lot longer.

[leveymg]

21. Between the wars, MID had more pull with the FBI

There's a lot of reorganization that happened from the pre OSS era until the 1947 Act. But, we must look at the old alliances to make sense of the individuals involved.

By force of old allegiences, there's no doubt that ONI owned the WashPost when Bradley was Managing Ed. Woodward, undoubtedly. They were right at the center of the Watergate take-down.

But, they are so far out of the WHIG-OSP-AIPAC-Mossad loop that brought us to Plame, I wonder whether we should be talking about them. What role might ONI have vis-a-vis London 7/7, and aftermath?

[Zorbuddha]

24. It seems you know your stuff

You must work in some analyst or intelligence capacity. Are you active or retired?

[leveymg]

26. Just getting back into the field, second time around.

Google Mark G. Levey.

[Zorbuddha]

29. Thanks for your candor

I really do appreciate your input here.

Now what's the goddamn quote?

[Zorbuddha]

31. Damn...I Googled you, MR. Levey...I'm not worthy

Allow me to sing your praises and post one of your articles.

---

Round Up The Usual Suspects:

Evidence Mounts That Bush Officials Are Leaking Old CIA Files to Impact Election
By Mark G. Levey

Evidence Mounts That Bush Officials Are Leaking Old CIA Files to Impact Election
By Mark G. Levey

# Leaks Disrupt Allied Surveillance Operations Against Al-Qaeda

# Cells Had Been Detected Years Ago by US, UK and Pakistan

# British MI5 Issues Protest

# Confirms TNR Pre-Election "Surprise" Scenario

WASHINGTON, DC, August 8, 2004 - According to Sunday's NYT, British intelligence has complained that members of the Al-Qaeda cells that were the target of high profile arrests earlier this week had been the subject of ongoing surveillance. White House-orchestrated publicity about a CIA-initiated arrest of a suspect in Pakistan forced a premature round up of suspects in Britain, compromising a long-term counterterrorism operation in the UK.

Bush Administration figures claim that the arrests have stopped a plot they say was in the works to disrupt the U.S. elections in November. Such an attack would now have to be in the latter stages of preparation, with personnel and equipment in place inside the U.S. and planning nearly completed. Facts instead point to a well-timed roundup of figures long ago identified in old counterintelligence sting operations. Unlike the months preceding 9/11, this time there is no solid, multi-source evidence warning of an imminent attack.

In his weekly radio address Saturday, President Bush all but admitted that the US intelligence has long known details about the alleged plot. Bush said,

"Information from arrests in Pakistan, taken together with information gathered by the U.S. intelligence community, indicated that al-Qaida has cased financial targets in New York, New Jersey and Washington, D.C . . . This information was buttressed by other information we already had." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/ID/5626850>

snip

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0408/S00094.htm

[Jara sang]

34. Are you saying that you are involved in the US Intelligence Community? n/t

[Zorbuddha]

35. Mr. Levey, may I ask you what the deal is with Tenet?

Is he just stewing in his juices, or what?

[Jara sang]

30. This post mentions Suitland.

I was merely pointing out that ONI is in Suitland. Unless you know of another agency that is in the Intelligence community that is in Suitland.

[MaryBear]

36. Funny how where one lives affects perception.

I thought "Suitland" was a made-up word, as in Suit Land the land where people wear suits...

kinda like we knew the FBI by the shiny shoes in the 60's.

Ignorant west coaster here!

Looked you up on google, leveymg. Glad you're with us on DU!

MB


:beer:

[Hubert Flottz]

32. Operation Paperclip

Operation Paperclip was the codename under which the US intelligence and military services extracted scientists from Germany, during and after the final stages of World War II. The project was originally called Operation Overcast, and is sometimes also known as Project Paperclip.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_paperclip

OPERATION PAPERCLIP
After WWII ended in 1945, victorious Russian and American intelligence teams began a treasure hunt throughout occupied Germany for military and scientific booty. They were looking for things like new rocket and aircraft designs, medicines, and electronics. But they were also hunting down the most precious "spoils" of all: the scientists whose work had nearly won the war for Germany. The engineers and intelligence officers of the Nazi War Machine.

The U.S. Military rounded up Nazi scientists and brought them to America. It had originally intended merely to debrief them and send them back to Germany. But when it realized the extent of the scientists knowledge and expertise, the War Department decided it would be a waste to send the scientists home. Following the discovery of flying discs (foo fighters), particle/laser beam weaponry in German military bases, the War Department decided that NASA and the CIA must control this technology, and the Nazi engineers that had worked on this technology.

There was only one problem: it was illegal. U.S. law explicitly prohibited Nazi officials from immigrating to America--and as many as three-quarters of the scientists in question had been committed Nazis.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Operation_Paperclip_file.html

[Zorbuddha]

33. This has always mystified me.

I've never been able to quite wrap my mind around it.

Thanks for posting this.

[wli]

40. This "Operation Paperclip" file contradicts other evidence

For instance, that the CIA is of lesser importance than the ONI and DIA. Also, this fails to cite any sources whatsoever.

I'm going to assume that the list of Nazi officers imported is accurate, but the commentary is unverifiable.

[Swamp Rat]

37. Now were getting somewhere...

[Blue_Tires]

39. Suitland???

he doesn't mean the Census Bureau building, does he??? (the only large fed. building i can think of there)

[DoYouEverWonder]

41. One correction

It appears "Vanna" "Nazi" should be "Banna" "Nazi". You get better results with that combo.

[Karenina]

42. Kick!

:kick:

[Zorbuddha]

43. Thanks for that. Here's two links

http://www.spitfirelist.com/f473.html

from a very conservative magazine
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16533
Some of this is pretty outrageous. (edit) Is this accurate?

[Zorbuddha]

45. kick