From 365Gay.Com: UK Gay Leaders Receive Muslim Death Threats

[LondonAmerican]

Hopefully nobody here will try to clkaim that this is somehow justified by the war in Iraq. These guys are out-and-out genocidal fascists.

--

UK Gay Leaders Receive Death Threats From Muslim Fundamentalists Group Says
by Malcolm Thornberry 365Gay.com European Bureau Chief

(London) A British LGBT civil rights group says its leaders have received death threats from Muslim fundamentalists and warns that gay clubs could be targets for terrorist bombers.

"Gay venues could be bombed by Islamic terrorists," OutRage said Monday. "All gay bars and clubs should introduce bag and body searches. Muslim fundamentalists have a violent hatred of lesbians and gay men. They believe we should be killed. Our community could be their next target. This is no time for complacency."

The warning comes in the wake of this months terrorist attack in London. (story) More than 50 people died in the bombings that authorities say were the work of Islamic militants.

One bomb went off in a crowded bus, the others exploded in the subway system, two near stations in gay neighborhoods.

OutRage said that three of the group's officers have received "repeated death threats from Islamic fundamentalists in recent weeks and months."

Peter Tatchell, the leader of OutRage; Brett Lock its campaign coordinator; and Aaron Saeed, the organization's spokesperson on Muslim affairs, have been warned they will be murdered, Tatchell said Monday.

In a statement Tatchell said that they have been told they are on a "hit list" and are going to be "beheaded" and "chopped up", in accordance with "Islamic law".

The threats apparently began soon after OutRage stepped up its campaign in defense of LGBT Muslims, including gay Muslims fleeing attempted "honor killings" in Algeria, Iran Palestine and in the UK.

Tatchell said that since early April, Islamic fundamentalists have made various attempts to track his movements - posing as journalists, police officers and representatives of the Muslim Council of Britain.

He said that police have been made aware of the threats and are investigating. A spokesperson for the MET said it does not comment on any possible investigations.

"If the terrorists want to attack the gay community, they may well attempt to detonate a bomb in a crowded gay bar, restaurant, club or community center," according to Lock.

"We also urge extra security and special vigilance in gay areas like Canal Street and Old Compton Street, and at up-coming, publicly advertised gay events like Big Gay Out and Soho Pride.

[smirkymonkey]

1. I agree with you - this is seriously fucked up.

[OKthatsIT]

50. Its too....simple. And why now?

why really profits from this prejudice?

[sui generis]

2. bunch of fucking cowards

blowing up people with bombs because they like blowing things up. killing people in the name of some god to give them a rationale for killing people.

There is no place or time on earth that these people wouldn't be "blowing up" or "beheading" or "chopping into pieces" somebody for some infraction of the law.

They are criminals, not ideologues. They are criminally insane, not religious men, and they need to be treated that way.

Cowards. Criminals.

[fortress]

3. not to belittle the threats...

but it sounds like a bit of 'poor me' attitude.
straight people as well as gay people could be killed by these fanatics.

I do NOT condone hatred or violence against any person or people because of 'religious law'. thats just idiotic, but to draw attention to one group, regardless of how small or large, it dilutes the threat of islamic terrorists who want to destroy ALL the west, not just the GLBT sector.

but that's just me.

[LondonAmerican]

5. I think this is serious

the police will be putting sniffer dogs all around the Big Gay Out this weekend. They have never done anything remotely like that before.

[smirkymonkey]

7. WTF are you talking about???

I can't even respond to your incredibly bigoted, homophobic tripe.

And I am straight.

[fortress]

12. wow...

try living in the Castro in SF for a while. you will see a predominantly GLBT quarter, with a fair amount of 'breeders' there. It is not unthinkable that a fair percentage of people killed at say... the Castro street fair would be straight. I'd say it would be the converse of the Gay pop. in the U.S. (1 in 10 or so some say...)

to say this affects JUST the GLBT community is... as i said earlier... to dilute the argument that these 'fundies' are evil and should be taken seriously...WHEREVER and WHATEVER they are railing against.

that said, i DO hope this is all just bluster and chest-thumping, as is with the christian-coalition types in the deep south.

[sui generis]

16. Yes but your delivery was wrong

you have a point, but it is irrelevant. Yes at the end of the day a corpse is a corpse, not a gay corpse or a straight corpse.

But when they blow up a gay parade, everybody else is just acceptable collateral damage.

The fact is, "everybody else" wouldn't be collateral damage if the gay parade hadn't been targeted.

And your pity me attitude was out of line BECAUSE this has nothing the fuck whatsoever to do with pity. We don't simper around looking for pity, wailing fearfully and tearing feebly at our frosted hair with our manicured nails.

[smirkymonkey]

20. This PARTICULAR threat WAS against the gay community.

Terrrorism is wrong no matter who it is aimed against, but the topic of this thread was about Islamic fundamentalists specifically targeting gay populations.

[Ian David]

54. This sort of thing that leaves me conflicted about protecting Muslims

One the one hand, every group deserves equal protection, and equal tolerance.

On the other hand, when the leaders of these movements do this shit, they're eroding the only source of tolerance their members have-- Liberals.

The leaders of the Islamic movement, by threatening gays and condemning liberal values, are putting their own people in harm's way.

A clear message of some sort needs to be sent.

Either:

1) Don't expect liberals to stand-up for you anymore if you continue to call for war against liberal values.

or

2) We're going to embrace you whole-heartedly, and we'll have gay rights groups picketing, protesting, and speaking for you on your behalf in love and friendship.

So, either "Tough Love," or love-thy-enemy.

I really, really want to stand-up for the rights of individual muslims, but it's getting harder and harder when their own leadership is doing less and less. It's like they want us to do the job of protecting their people for them while they continue to urge them to do evil.

"Please have tolerance and compassion for our people while we urge them to kill gays, because maybe."

Individual Muslims-of-conscience need to stand-up and tell their leaders, "You're not doing us any favors."

So, like I said, I'm conflicted and torn on this.

How do we protect and tolerate individual Muslims while simultaneously sending the message to their leaders to stop making Islam seem like a series of nutty jihads?

So, either "Tough Love" or "Love thy Enemy."

Cognitive dissonance make Ian's head explode...

[foreigncorrespondent]

37. No one is saying...

...that this just affects the LGBTIQQ community, but remember, the threats have been made to the LGBTIQQ community.

Your delivery to this has been way off though. You are trying to make it a mute point by forgetting that the threats have been made against the queer community.

If an attack happened in the Castro, what would the % of deaths be between staight and queer? And just because I am Australian, don't right me off for not knowing anything about the Castro, especially considering my partner is a bay area resident.

The point of this article is, the threats have been made to a particular group of people. This particular group of people are not a favorite group of people to the Muslim world. If the threats were carried out, then the majority of deaths would happen in this particular group.

Try a better approach next time.

[donco6]

48. This was a specific threat received by the gay community.

Not just a triangulation of a general threat over all the UK.

[Misunderestimator]

56. What the hell is this picture in your profile? Is it a joke?

No one said this affects JUST the GLBT community... Do you have a problem with gay groups in the UK taking extra precautions or talking about the threats they've received? I'm not sure I get the reasoning behind that.

[sui generis]

8. this is a group with an extraordinary event

BTW lots of gays post in the GLBT forum about GLBT issues, and this is an issue.

Because some of us go to pride parades, gay bars on occasion, and other gay events, it is noteworthy to discuss.

We're not worried about diluting anything - we just don't want to be specially targeted by the freaks.

Your "poor me" attitude comment was way out of line.

[TankLV]

44. It's just you.

[Terran]

53. Your kidding, right?

Terrorists make a specific threat against a specific group of people, and you criticiize that group of people for sounding the alarm. What the FUCK is your problem?

[TomPainesBones]

4. Muslim fundies

and Rightwing nuts.
Two peas in a pod.

[LondonAmerican]

6. There is no difference

muslim fundamentalista ARE rightwing nutcases, just not christian ones.

[TomPainesBones]

11. Oh, you know what I meant.

I just didn't wanna paint the grey scale.

[RageFist]

10. I could not...

have put it better myself. And for the record, just because I don't support the war in Iraq does NOT mean that I support Osama bin Laden and his ilk...they are pure evil and appeal to fascism for order. The best way to combat people like him is to appeal to the moderate Muslim community in the world. This is a better proposition than many might think. After the London bombings, many in the Muslim community were outspoken against the carnage on the internet. This is the solution at home and abroad...we must rely on reason and clear-thinking (religious or not) to get us through. As for how attainable that is, well, that's anyone's guess.

[Laughing Mirror]

9. Congratulations Tony Blair and George Bush

We reap what YOU have sown.

[nolabels]

14. Why was Britain targeted?

Why was Britain targeted?
Some blame 7/7 on Britain's support for the US war in Iraq. Others point to more deep-seated causes.
By Mark Rice-Oxley | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

(snip)
Many Britons agree. The Guardian survey, carried out by the ICM research group, found that 33 percent of Britons ascribed "a lot" of blame for 7/7 to the decision to invade Iraq, and 31 percent "a little." Only 28 percent said the Iraq gambit was not at all responsible for the London attacks.

There is a growing realization, moreover, that the Iraq war has not just ignited the fury of Al Qaeda members, but may have driven countless new recruits into their camp - like the four perpetrators of the 7/7 Tube and bus bombings.

Inayat Bunglawala of the mainstream Muslim Council of Britain lobby group says it has become much harder for moderates to persuade disaffected youth to maintain faith in the authorities when the authorities are seen to be responsible for Muslim deaths in Iraq.

"The Iraq war certainly helped Al Qaeda to recruit more people and boosted their propaganda efforts," he says. "It has undermined mainstream Muslim organizations."
(snip)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0720/p06s01-woeu.html?s=e...
http://www.antiwar.com/

[LondonAmerican]

17. So if fundamentalists

kill gay men in the name of their religion (as happens all over the middle east) that's somehow bush and blair's fault?

idgi: do you honestly believe for a minute that killing gay men for being gay men is somehow acceptable? do you honestly believe that if only bush and co hadn't attacked iraq then the fundamentalists would have decided that gay men are their brothers? to even ask the question is to show how absurd such a contention is.

so when my friends are slaughtered for being gay (and when that is the stated reason) you will still blame blair instead of the murdering genocidcal nazis that the fundamentalists are?

[nolabels]

31. Pretty much

You did notice when Pappy went in GWI war to restore Corporate hegemony he took the widest verity of a coalition he could assemble(he listened better to the snakes that surrounded him). This move by the Bush and Blair made it look like it was just not another rerun of the crusades.

The one thing you can be sure of is Bush (Blair by association)are very inept when comes to shaking things out culturally. Fear and Retribution only works if you keep on dishing enough of it out.

Why it's their fault(to some extent) is they exacerbated the premise that okay kill people just because they seem threatening

[CJCRANE]

51. you seem to be making a connection

that no-one has actually proposed - i.e. that the attack on Iraq is/isn't responsible for homophobia. Also are you part of the gay community yourself? You seem to know a lot about it, particularly re. the middle east, france, germany etc.

I have a gay relative who's lived in the middle east (and currently lives in a muslim country) so it would be interesting to compare and see where you get your information from.

[geek tragedy]

15. Uh, this isn't their fault--Tony Blair wasn't responsible for Matthew

Shepherd's death, was he?

[LondonAmerican]

18. Thank you

[sui generis]

13. Well, they are terrorists and that is what they do

terrorize.

All we can do is be safe and not live in terror.

We're pretty damn tough if you take us on face to face.

There are plenty of fundie christian weirdos too right here in the U.S. who think we should be beheaded and cut up into little pieces who just can't seem to get off their ass to do more than lip service, and who daydream about getting away with mailing anthrax fire bombing nightclubs or shooting you in the back with a sniper rig, because that's what makes them feel like they have control in their own lives.

They go beat relatively helpless young men half to death and hang them on fences to die in Wyoming, and murder drunken drag queens and lovestruck TG's and anyone else who can't fight back, because they are serial killers and any excuse will do, and the only way they can validate themselves is to hunt prey that will run.

So don't run. Fight back. Don't be their victim.

[wookie294]

19. Sounds like PsyOps to me

CIA, MI5.

[LondonAmerican]

22. I think OutRage

would be pretty insulted to hear that they are somehow connected with MI5. You should read up a bit on their history; they have been targeted by rightwing nutcases before.

and it's definitely the case that muslim fundamentalists have been attacking gays with increasing severity and regularity lately, changing what used to be considered enlightened cities like amsterdam into places where gay men now worry about being bashed.

[wookie294]

24. I have not heard any reports of Muslims attacking gay Brits

"it's definitely the case that muslim fundamentalists have been attacking gays with increasing severity and regularity lately,"

Got a link to news stories of Muslims attacking gay Brits?

[LondonAmerican]

25. Actually

there were a series of attacks last spring, including a couple of killings where the killers waited for their prey and screamed anti-gay insults at the victims while beating and stining them to death. the funeral of one of the victims, who had survived a previous rightwing bomb attack against a gay blub in soho, was a rallying point for the london gay community.

and yes the killers were muslims and yes they shouted anti-gay insults while killing their victims.

you need to live here (or in the netherlands, or germany, or france...) if you don't think that gays are among the preferred targets of muslim fundamentalists, targets that are specifically held out by radical preachers as 'worse than pigs' and worthy of slaughter.

[wookie294]

27. Really?

Can't find that news on OutRage's website here....

http://outrage.nabumedia.com/nh.asp

I agree Islamo-fascists hate gays, but I disagree that this problem is anymore of a threat than being attacked by Britain's Christian fundamentalists.

[LondonAmerican]

29. I was here

and yes the attacks took place and one of the victims was a survivor of the bomb attack on the admiral duncan, which was particularly sad.

OutRage is not a news service, they do not have articles on every news item. check the british press, or the british gay press, which was full of the news at the time.

[wookie294]

30. I think you're trying to hype the threat

Maybe you are MI5 ? Gays have a better chance of being attacked by London's skin heads, the National Front or some idiot kid.

[geek tragedy]

33. LOL!

[wookie294]

36. Tin foil hat indeed

Just like the WMD lie and the fake al-Qaeda/Saddam link and the bogus claim that Muslims are on the verge of starting a holy war with gay Brits. Now THAT is tin foil hat stuff! Thanks for the reminder!

[The Stranger]

39. Interesting timing, isn't it?

Most Muslims would be cowering in fear about right now from possibly be strung up by some football hooligans or shipped off to be tortured in the Middle East.

PsyOps, false flag, Black Ops -- call it what you like, but the extreme right wing baits its enemy groups against one another with incredible success -- case in point the last U.S. Presidential election and African-American preachers being pushed to attack gays on the basis of gay marriage.

Interesting place to insert a "tin foil" hat post as well . . . maybe it is making a little too much sense.

[CJCRANE]

49. I'm not sure its psyops

just RWers posing as muslims (i.e. the emails). Muslims organisations in Britain received thousands of hatemails after the London attack and racist attacks went up tenfold so I think british muslims have got plenty to worry about already without stoking up any more hatred.

As I mentioned in another post, the attack on the Admiral Duncan pub in London, which was nail-bombed, was carried out by a white, homophobic racist. The far right has a lot more to gain by stirring up this shit and they get two birds with one.

[rinsd]

38. Maybe you're an islamic terrorist trying to cover up....

...but it would be silly to accuse you of such just based on your opinion on things wouldn't it?

[The Stranger]

40. It woud be silly -- nothing to gain by it if he were.

No identifiable motive to do that here.

[rinsd]

41. But that's what would make it so fiendishly logical ;-) (nt)

[wookie294]

42. We already know the FBI monitors left-leaning websites

It's not "tin foil" to suggest that intelligence officials are paid to post messages on hundreds of websites to stir the pot of hysteria. Tens of thousands of people read DU. It would be an incredible coup if Bush/Blair could get Left-leaning folks to support the war. Releasing bogus press releases about a new Muslim war against gays would be a good start to achieve that goal. After the WMD lie, you should wear a tin foil hat like I do. Seriously!

[rinsd]

45. Actually its worse than that...

...because someone doesn't ascribe to your worldview, your reaction was to insinuate they were part of intelligence.

"It's not "tin foil" to suggest that intelligence officials are paid to post messages on hundreds of websites to stir the pot of hysteria. Tens of thousands of people read DU"

The original piece came from 365gay.com. And instead of trying to convince folks to support the war, wouldn't it be easier to simply to be as outlandish as possible to hurt the credibitlity of the site as a whole?

[Ian David]

58. outlandish as possible to hurt the credibility of the site as a whole?

Exactly what I've been saying about all the crop-circle, flying saucer, artificial tsunami and robot-piloted 9-11 plane theories.

Some of them (not all of them) might be planted by people (not necessarily from the government) intentionally trying to make us look like a bunch of nutballs.

"... Now, on Democratic Underground, an internet blog, they say Bush stole the election and that flying saucers from space are flying over Iran."

[sui generis]

52. oddly when you get thousands of gays together with cameras rolling

such as at a parade or a gay event like the Gay Games, we become legitimate targets for anyone with an agenda and a need for televised attention.

It wouldn't take much to roll a firebomb into a crowded nightclub - like most nightclubs it is entirely conceivable that a nightclub becomes a target, especially smaller nightclubs with looser security policies. Probably the only thing saving us from a suicide bomber is that even to suicide bombers blowing one's ass to smithereens in a gay nightclub is just kind of icky if one hates us queers that much.

It lacks the whole glorify allah and 50 virgins and a mule thing; most idealistic people capable of blowing themselves up are glory hounds and would MUCH rather do it in defiance of a government or a military force rather than a select group of people.

Still, it wouldn't take much to kidnap someone on the way back from the deli and do something terrible; however dealing with live people face to face is not what these chickenshit cowards prefer.

Thanks for the warning, but we're a bit too busy to be terrified. We know you're out there, just as you have always been and will always be. So, what else is new. That is all.

[muriel_volestrangler]

47. Are you sure they were Muslim?

If you're talking about the murder of David Morley, then the only adult I can find named in the charges is Barry Lee - http://uk.gay.com/headlines/7100 - which doesn't sound a Muslim name (yes, I know he could be a convert, but they often change their names at the same time).

[Laughing Mirror]

26. That's what it sounds like to me too

Although I'm not well-versed enough in counter-espionnage to say why, exactly, and there is not enough information on this to help flesh it out.

This press release from the OutRage site provides more details:

http://outrage.nabumedia.com/pressrelease.asp?ID=301

18 July 2005

Social Issues / Hate Crimes
Terrorist danger to gay venues
"Increase security," urges OutRage!
By OutRage! News Service

...

"Security chiefs suspect there are other Islamic terrorist cells in the UK. When the bombers strike next, they may not attack the public transportation system. They will probably change targets to avoid the enhanced surveillance on the bus and tube network. They may strike outside of London.

"Liberal Muslims, Jews and gay people are possible targets for future attacks. All gay venues throughout the country should install CCTV and search everyone who enters.

"In April 1999, OutRage! issued a similar warning after the Brixton and Brick Lane bombs, advising that gay venues could be targeted and urging increased security. The OutRage! warning was mostly ignored. Five days later, neo-Nazi David Copeland exploded a bomb in the Admiral Duncan gay bar in Soho, killing three people. It would be very foolish to ignore the possibility of Islamists bombing a gay bar or club," said Mr Lock.

[LondonAmerican]

28. It sounds like OutRage

were able to smell the coffee. If they are attacked or killed, i hope you won't say that they somehow staged it. muslim fundamentalists have been calling for gay men to be killed in the streets of london and other european cities for a long time; now that the temperature has risen and OutRage have taken on human rights abuses against gay men in muslim states it would come as no surprise for them and gays in general to be attacked.

that is the reason why the metropolitan police are putting sniffer dogs at all the entrances of the big gay out this weekend.

[Laughing Mirror]

32. Nobody is saying OutRage staged this

But there remains the possibility that spooks, special operations agents posing as terrorists posing as journalists, police and representatives of the Muslim Council are the ones making these threats.

The beefed up security is a response to that, regardless of who exactly is making these threats, and why.

[Benbow]

21. "Outrage" are the gay equivalent of Xian fundamentalists

Take everything they say with a truckload of salt.

[LondonAmerican]

23. That's nonsense

they're the best-known and most principled gay group in the UK. are they trying to force people to be gay? are they spending all their time preaching sermons against straight people? do they go on straight-bashing expeditions? what are you talking about? or are you just trying to slag them because you don't like that they have gone public with this news.

care to tell us which gay group yoou consider acceptable in the uk? or are you just blowing hot air.

[Benbow]

34. Outrage "principled"? - give me a break

And Tatchell is the most frightful self-seeking bully.

[Benbow]

35. Do you know anything about Outrage's track record, such as

what they tried to do to the former Archbishop of York (when he was Bishop of London) - absolutely nauseating mind-games.

[wli]

43. Muslim anti-GLBT groups not entirely uncommon

About as common as Christian ones, really. For instance, there were attempts to disrupt a waria pageant in Indonedia. In the case cited, things were a lot less extreme than what's being talked about in the UK.

[CJCRANE]

46. Wouldn't surprise me

if it were white right-wing extremists stiring things up. Don't forget the so-called "nail-bomber" who blew up a gay pub in London was a white racist. Most muslims are keeping a very low profile right now. And of the extremist muslims who are talking out they are mentioning Iraq and Palestine. Nothing about gays.

[fujiyama]

Actually I recall reading

once that one of bombers in the '93 WTC bombing actually said one of the reasons they hated the US was its "permissive" culture, which allowed things like "rampant homosexuality", etc etc.

Muslims can also be intolerant. Don't fool yourself into believing otherwise.

[CJCRANE]

59. I know that,

but I don't think that's the primary motivation for the terrorists. It's the big geo-political stuff (Palestine, Iraq, Abu Ghraib, Fallujah etc) that seems to be the main incubator of hate.

[fujiyama]

55. Many Muslims

are extremely homophobic, even moreso than Christian fundamentalists in many cses.

It should be made clear to immigrant groups that they should accomidate to a more liberal culture when they emmigrate to western nations (atleast Europe). Tolerance should be shown by those that enter the country, as well as the host.

[Politicub]

57. Sounds like the ones making the threats

are in league with our own dear American fundamentalists.

I'm sure this headline brings a smile to the face of American Family Association members.