Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

does it matter whether or not Roberts could be defeated?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:47 PM
Original message
does it matter whether or not Roberts could be defeated?
The immediate outcome of this fight is important, but it's not the whole story. This is about Roe and the makeup of the Court in our lifetimes, but it's also about whether or not we as a party are going to even try to be an effective opposition to what we *know* to be wrong.

I'm not stupid. Roberts' confirmation, while by no means assured, would be difficult at best to derail. But why in the hell do we exist as a party if we're only going to fight the battles we're pretty sure we can win? Beyond that is the fact that we'll only become stronger when we show our strength, not when we submit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. No.
Not to me it doesn't.
I'm not dead yet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dave Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm beginning to become cynical,
and the notion that there really is no opposition party is starting to sound correct.

I hope I'm wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. brother, I've been cynical for a long time.
Yet, here I am, hoping that the party I've belonged to my entire life will find the strength to make a stand when it counts. There's hope, and then there's expectation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. My conflict in that area is well-documented
Even last night, I admitted I still grapple with the balance between idealism and results. Reality versus hope, and hope against expectations. And just try to mesh them when you can. I am experimenting to see if these qualities need be mutuall exclusive. After all, the suffragettes and abolitionists didn't seem to think so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. i think it depends on what is found on the dude
if you are going after him cause you are pretty sure he is anti abortion, i think it will be a waste as opposed to if you find he did something unethical in the 2000 election
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. because I'm "pretty sure he is anti abortion"?
He seems to leave no doubt. I've always been of the view that the GOP would never condone the outright banning of abortion rights, but I'm becoming concerned that they're caught between a rock and their own absolutists on this issue. Something's gotta give.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think getting the facts out there regarding
Roberts is the ONLY way to go, despite supposed results. Let's tell the truth and let the chips fall, get this info on the record. Who knows?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Roberts troubles me for one reason, and it isn't Roe.
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 09:56 PM by sparosnare
It's his loyalty to the Republicans in control. He will sit on the SC and do whatever they ask of him. He will be their tool, he will interpret the Constitution to their liking. Roe is a concern, but our basic civil rights loom larger. If shrub can get a couple of lackeys in the SC, the judicial branch will be done. It's part of the plan.

Roberts will be difficult to defeat because he's so green. I'm hoping the strategy with the Democrats right now is to remain quiet, then go after him in the hearings. His answers to their questions will be what does him in, if we have any chance at all.

Roberts is not an acceptable choice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shugah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. it does not matter
i just said so on another thread. the odds may be great, but we have got to fight on this. win or lose, we have to draw a line in the sand and say "this far, and no further." there are certain things that cannot be compromised. if we don't fight this nomination we are basically saying that we don't really care about the things we say we care about.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. my point exactly.
KG had a thread yesterday wondering where the TRUE bottom line was for the party. I think it's "put up or shut up" time now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. and i've come to the conclusion there is no bottom line on the issues
only the bottom that matters is the one on the party funds ledger.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. see my post #10 in this thread.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. You raise an important point ....
We are responsible for our own behavior. This is distinct from the responsibility that the senators have. It would seem curious to take the position that because they may be irresponsible in the future, we are excused from our responsibilities today.

A few of my fellow DUers have noted that I have a mild interest in the Plame scandal. Yet, if I expect others to assist me on my "special interests," I am expected to help on their "special interests." That is the way confederacies, or coalitions, work.

I've also noted that I used to box, and train boxers. Those with two hands always did better. Let's use both hands in this fight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. not to me
I must fight this
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. as must we all, my friend.
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shugah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. me too, proud patriot
i guess i should stop posting "we have to fight this" in all the bizarro threads i'm seeing on DU today.

it is what i have to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. Roe's potential overturn is just ONE bad aspect
I think more of the opposition, if it is to be sustainable, should be aware of the following endangered areas of law brought forth by a 30-40 years hence conservative court:

Reproductive Rights/Women's Equality
Labor
Education
Affirmative Action
Health Care
Church/State Separation (my pet issue)


Well, shit, I could go on, but after that short list, I can hear the Constitution wiping Scalia's ass. So hell yes, I am ready.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. right.
The fate of the public schools has become my own pet issue. I expect more than a few cases involving education to come before the USSC in my lifetime.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Dismantle public schools!
Vouchers for religious schools for all!

Then you and I can have our pet issues meld into one big festering poot mound to fight.

Come, drink my ZombyKoolAid. :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. that wasn't exactly what I meant
about getting all up in your koolaid. :D Mind if I borrow the "poot mound" imagery?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. I see
Dammit. Guess I just love the sound of the words "come drink my ZombyKoolAid". :dunce:

"Poot mound" is my gift to you, so use it wisely. :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. comes from having taught elementary age kids.
In the lingo, getting into someone's business is getting up in their koolaid. :D

Poot mound shall be used with great discretion.

(Yeah, right. :D )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. He is also very anti-environment/pro-corporate
(one of my pet issues)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Yes! The environment!
Sorry, but the sound of Scalia doing his wiping was too much to bear, and I stopped. :hi:

I agree, that issue is of major import.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. good to see some actual
democrats around here! :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. we're still around.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Oct 22nd 2014, 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC