does it matter whether or not Roberts could be defeated?

[ulysses]

The immediate outcome of this fight is important, but it's not the whole story. This is about Roe and the makeup of the Court in our lifetimes, but it's also about whether or not we as a party are going to even try to be an effective opposition to what we *know* to be wrong.

I'm not stupid. Roberts' confirmation, while by no means assured, would be difficult at best to derail. But why in the hell do we exist as a party if we're only going to fight the battles we're pretty sure we can win? Beyond that is the fact that we'll only become stronger when we show our strength, not when we submit.

[beam me up scottie]

1. No.

Not to me it doesn't.
I'm not dead yet.

[Dave Reynolds]

2. I'm beginning to become cynical,

and the notion that there really is no opposition party is starting to sound correct.

I hope I'm wrong.

[ulysses]

10. brother, I've been cynical for a long time.

Yet, here I am, hoping that the party I've belonged to my entire life will find the strength to make a stand when it counts. There's hope, and then there's expectation.

[Zomby Woof]

24. My conflict in that area is well-documented

Even last night, I admitted I still grapple with the balance between idealism and results. Reality versus hope, and hope against expectations. And just try to mesh them when you can. I am experimenting to see if these qualities need be mutuall exclusive. After all, the suffragettes and abolitionists didn't seem to think so.

[seabeyond]

3. i think it depends on what is found on the dude

if you are going after him cause you are pretty sure he is anti abortion, i think it will be a waste as opposed to if you find he did something unethical in the 2000 election

[ulysses]

13. because I'm "pretty sure he is anti abortion"?

He seems to leave no doubt. I've always been of the view that the GOP would never condone the outright banning of abortion rights, but I'm becoming concerned that they're caught between a rock and their own absolutists on this issue. Something's gotta give.

[babylonsister]

4. I think getting the facts out there regarding

Roberts is the ONLY way to go, despite supposed results. Let's tell the truth and let the chips fall, get this info on the record. Who knows?

[Avalux]

5. Roberts troubles me for one reason, and it isn't Roe.

It's his loyalty to the Republicans in control. He will sit on the SC and do whatever they ask of him. He will be their tool, he will interpret the Constitution to their liking. Roe is a concern, but our basic civil rights loom larger. If shrub can get a couple of lackeys in the SC, the judicial branch will be done. It's part of the plan.

Roberts will be difficult to defeat because he's so green. I'm hoping the strategy with the Democrats right now is to remain quiet, then go after him in the hearings. His answers to their questions will be what does him in, if we have any chance at all.

Roberts is not an acceptable choice.

[shugah]

6. it does not matter

i just said so on another thread. the odds may be great, but we have got to fight on this. win or lose, we have to draw a line in the sand and say "this far, and no further." there are certain things that cannot be compromised. if we don't fight this nomination we are basically saying that we don't really care about the things we say we care about.

[ulysses]

8. my point exactly.

KG had a thread yesterday wondering where the TRUE bottom line was for the party. I think it's "put up or shut up" time now.

[KG]

18. and i've come to the conclusion there is no bottom line on the issues

only the bottom that matters is the one on the party funds ledger.

[ulysses]

20. see my post #10 in this thread.

:hi:

[H2O Man]

7. You raise an important point ....

We are responsible for our own behavior. This is distinct from the responsibility that the senators have. It would seem curious to take the position that because they may be irresponsible in the future, we are excused from our responsibilities today.

A few of my fellow DUers have noted that I have a mild interest in the Plame scandal. Yet, if I expect others to assist me on my "special interests," I am expected to help on their "special interests." That is the way confederacies, or coalitions, work.

I've also noted that I used to box, and train boxers. Those with two hands always did better. Let's use both hands in this fight.

[proud patriot]

9. not to me

I must fight this

[ulysses]

11. as must we all, my friend.

:thumbsup:

[shugah]

14. me too, proud patriot

i guess i should stop posting "we have to fight this" in all the bizarro threads i'm seeing on DU today.

it is what i have to do.

[Zomby Woof]

12. Roe's potential overturn is just ONE bad aspect

I think more of the opposition, if it is to be sustainable, should be aware of the following endangered areas of law brought forth by a 30-40 years hence conservative court:

Reproductive Rights/Women's Equality
Labor
Education
Affirmative Action
Health Care
Church/State Separation (my pet issue)


Well, shit, I could go on, but after that short list, I can hear the Constitution wiping Scalia's ass. So hell yes, I am ready.

[ulysses]

15. right.

The fate of the public schools has become my own pet issue. I expect more than a few cases involving education to come before the USSC in my lifetime.

[Zomby Woof]

16. Dismantle public schools!

Vouchers for religious schools for all!

Then you and I can have our pet issues meld into one big festering poot mound to fight.

Come, drink my ZombyKoolAid. :D

[ulysses]

17. that wasn't exactly what I meant

about getting all up in your koolaid. :D Mind if I borrow the "poot mound" imagery?

[Zomby Woof]

21. I see

Dammit. Guess I just love the sound of the words "come drink my ZombyKoolAid". :dunce:

"Poot mound" is my gift to you, so use it wisely. :D

[ulysses]

23. comes from having taught elementary age kids.

In the lingo, getting into someone's business is getting up in their koolaid. :D

Poot mound shall be used with great discretion.

(Yeah, right. :D )

[bloom]

22. He is also very anti-environment/pro-corporate

(one of my pet issues)

[Zomby Woof]

26. Yes! The environment!

Sorry, but the sound of Scalia doing his wiping was too much to bear, and I stopped. :hi:

I agree, that issue is of major import.

[newsguyatl]

19. good to see some actual

democrats around here! :hi:

[ulysses]

25. we're still around.

:hi: