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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:31 PM
Original message
American Culture and Abortion
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 09:38 PM by ck4829
You know, it's almost funny.

Women are the captains of their body, yet they shouldn't be able to dictate how their body runs according to some people.

Landlords CAN throw an entire family, even if that family has children, out of a home if that family fails to provide rent.

They can also cut power to a family in the dead of winter.

In some places Doctors can refuse to treat people just because the Doctor does not like him/her (Doctors CAN refuse to treat GLBT people in Michigan).

If you can't afford treatment then why should you have it done?

HMO's can refuse to provide life saving treatment, leaving you to die.

But, a woman should not have the right to abortion?
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. With W and his zealots, women are 2nd class citizens
and white men know better than women.

W's nomination of a male to replace a female who was pro-choice reflects this discrimination and want of male dominance.
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. We're not second class citizens
we're furniture.

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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. good point
We're fast becoming that way.
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KerryOn Donating Member (899 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. The thing I can't figure out is...
How can Bush and the majority of those on the right be against abortion, but yet be for the death penalty?

That has never made a lick of sense to me. I assume they are against abortion because they feel it is destroying a life. So is this not a double standard? And to think that a great majority of the people that think this way are religious. Why do they value the life of an unborn child more than a grow person? A life is a life is it not?

Someone please explain their logic to me?
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. It's their interpretation of religion
They interpret scriptures to meet their political views.

Never trust a person that does this or you end up with right wing zealots taking over the country, much like the Taliban did.

Catholics are supposedly against both abortion and the death penalty.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Some Churches Support Choice
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I'm a Methodist
Our Book of Disciplines supports choice, though not enthusiastically. Here's some quotes explaining the pro-choice position with lots of disclaimers.

"Our belief in the sanctity of unborn human life makes us reluctant to approve abortion. But we are equally bound to respect the sacredness of the life and well being of the mother, for whom devastating damage may result from an unacceptable pregnancy."

"We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection."

"We oppose the use of late term abortion known as dilation and extraction (partial birth abortion) and call for the end of the practice except when the physical life of the mother is in danger, ..."

"We call all Christians to a searching and prayerful inquiry into the sorts of conditions that may warrant abortion."

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KerryOn Donating Member (899 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I would have to agree...
Thanks for posting the disaplines. Very good. I have copied it for future reference.

I'm in no way in favor of abortion, however I do believe in a womans right to chose.

As far as I'm concerned it is between the women, her doctor and God. Although I do not support the taking of life at any stage, I strongly feel that no one has the right to dictate what a woman does when it is her body. Let God be the judge of their actions.

Just my opinion.
(I'm male by the way.)
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. The Catholic Church is against abortion AND the death penalty.
There's no "supposedly" about it.

Now individual members. . . . another matter all together.

Personally, I feel like being against the death penalty for religious reasons represents a particularly mature spiritual life. And to be someone like Sister Prejean (sp?) who actually works with criminals and tries to honor their humanity, well, that's pretty amazing.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. It's the difference between guilt and innocence
A person could be for the death penalty and against abortion because one person has committed a horrible crime and been convicted and sentenced for it. The other couldn't possibly be more innocent safe in his mother's womb.

If you consider the fetus a person, which an anti-abortionist would, then it's very easy to explain. Punish the guilty, not the innocent.

The opposite is more difficult though.

How could one be for abortion but against the death penalty? Kill the innocent but protect the guilty?

Of course the answer is the central question. Is a fetus a human being?

If you think yes, it's a tough logical string to then be in favor of most abortions.

If you think no, then it's not such a moral problem.

If you want to understand the other side, you have to look at it from their point of view though. Accept the fact that a fetus is a person, and then see how silly it sounds asking how you could be for protecting a fetus but not a murderer.

With that given, it makes all the sense in the world.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. one problem with this-
(as a former fundie and pro-lifer)

All humans are sinners- and thus NOT innocent-
"For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God"-

Those same folks claim that unless you 'confess your sin' and "ask Jesus into your heart" you do not recieve eternal life-

So, even the unborn are NOT 'innocent'-
And, even a person caught in the ACT of Murder, if they have asked Jesus into their heart, and confessed their sins are "forgiven".

Jesus' words seem to fly right over most 'fundies heads'- "You have heard it said, an eye for an eye- but a NEW commandment I give you- Love your enemies, do GOOD to those who hurt you, if a man takes your shirt, give him your coat as well- Do not return evil with evil".

And for those Old Testament folks- "Thou shall not kill"- the word kill is the same word as that used for 'murder'- and "vengence is MINE sayith the lord"-

So, there's alot of crazy twisting to support any view from a 'religious' standpoint- Jesus never advocated the killing of anyone-
Not even those who killed him-

Different kind of guy eh?

many People 'claim' him- few follow
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