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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:10 PM
Original message
Read it if you want........
I know I'm a newbie and my opinion holds little to no weight, but here are some reasons I think that a fight right now about Roberts gets us nowhere. Here is my reasoning:

1. If we use the filibuster on him, we lose the right by forcing a rules change. We will need the filibuster for if and when Rhenquist dies or retires. That will be the real fight. There are not enough votes to overturn Roe v. Wade. We need damage control, the next appt. is the important one.

2. Some groups are calling for a woman, I know not us on DU really, but this plays in the Repub. hand as well. He will give into the "peoples will" and nominate the likes of the other Edith. And what if the filibuster option is gone?

3. We don't have to fight tooth and nail at this very moment. August is when the real fight comes down and we can focus on Rove for now. Bush wants the nominee in office for early October. Whatelse is happening (atleast this is the current thought) there will be indictments in the CIA Leak. If these come out around that time, it could derail the passage of this nominee. That is why it is important to get the CIA leak out front and back on the news.

4. If we fight this fight right now and fall into the Republicans game plan, the public loses interest in the Rove CIA Leak and republicans get more time to spin. We need to keep the heat on. This way we might be able to have enough outrage that the people won't trust Bush on anything.

Those are a few of my thoughts. I understand and respect the thoughts of others who hold a different opinion, but this is how I am leaning at this moment. I reserve the right to change my mind.

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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. my only question:
if we never get to use the fillibuster because they will change the rules...of what use is it?
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. we can use it once. not twice, that is my understanding.
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. where/when did anyone say that?
i have never heard that. i have heard that the agreement was that it could only be used in extreme circumstances...but i have never heard a quantifier put on it.

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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. If the dems use it, the repubs have threatened the nuclear option.
If we use it on him, the option won't be around for the next one.
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. and if we use it on the next one, it won't be around for the one after...
that. and on and on and on.

and even during the "first use", they can change the rules and over ride the filibuster anyway, without ever succesfully filibustering even one person.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. but it would be a huge fight, maybe even bigger then the SCOTUS Nominee.
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 05:26 PM by MassDemm
edit to add: but there is only 1 chance for this, do we want to use it on roberts.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Welcome to DU, MassDem!
:hi:
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. thank you very much, i am glad to be here.
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. welcome MassDemm
nice post
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rzemanfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. I think the Dems should just all vote "No" and say that * just
appointed another rich white guy who belongs to a minority group (multi-millionaires) instead of a woman or hispanic.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I think that just might be a good idea. n/t
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libertypirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. The fight is 5 weeks away
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. Pick Your Fight On Your Turf, Not Theirs...
Playing into some bitter duel to the death, including using the filibuster on Roberts not only seems foolish at this point, since we haven't heard him out (and I'm with Sen. Kennedy on this) and keep it as an option for another time when it'll be really needed.

I see this pick as a Right Wing vote for a Right Wing vote...either for the pro-corporate ones O'Connor has always gone with (and she also was on the 5 that installed this regime) or for those Rehnquist makes. We know it's just a matter of time for his seat to come open...and then we'll see where the landscape is.

In the meantime, this regime is headed for a lot of bad news. From possible indictments to a worsening war to fights within their own hives (not all Repugnicans are too crazy about Roberts either...the fundies want someone like a Roy Moore).

We've seen this selection was a "safe" pick...as a result of the Rove scandal. This shows us Bunnypants doesn't want to stick in our face...they're in damage control mode and wants this to be the distraction. Making a big fight right now just sucks the oxygen out of letting the Rove scandal erode this regime's credibility.
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MisterLiberal Donating Member (442 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. No, no, no
Why is our fighting always considered to be "part of the Republican's plan"? They're not all-knowing!

If we don't fight here, we are telling Shrub that he can ram whatever nominee through at will!

We MUST stand on this first open seat because there might be two more.

And I agree with the other poster; if we don't use the Filibuster, it's not useful as a threat. If they know we will use it once, they know we'll do it again!

Sorry, but "ADMIT DEFEAT" is neither a plan or a winning strategy.

I want the Democrats who say that we should just accept defeat to talk to me a year from now if he's confirmed and tell me they did the right thing by automatically declaring defeat.
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