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What would happen in this country if Roe was overturned ?

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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:55 AM
Original message
What would happen in this country if Roe was overturned ?
Serious question here. Would there be an immediate upheaval against the Republicans and the voters would throw them out of Congress and the Presidency ? Would most voters not care ? Trust me, I do NOT want Roe overturned but I've wondered about how voters would react. What do you think ? Thanks in advance for your input.
Steve :-)
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Cush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. it would become a state issue
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. I agree, and it would divide the nation even more dramatically along
the red-blue line.
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
53. not necessarily - this scenario would make all abortions illegal
The Supremes could rule that not only is there no right of privacy in the Constitution and thus overturn Wade, but they could go beyond that and say all abortion is murder, that a fetus has a constitutional right to life that cannot be abridged by the states.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
74. ...resulting in catastrophic loss of state governments for GOP
The GOP in all states would face immediate, intense pressure to outlaw abortion. Republicans would be turned out of office in droves in the resulting fight.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. one more brief pause
this one in the 1950's

on the way back to the 1200's
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
44. Actually if you read the historical analysis Blackmun gives in Roe you'll
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 10:37 AM by MJDuncan1982
see that the Greeks and Romans allowed it and that English Common Law didn't consider a fetus a human until it became quick - which basically meant it moved.

Only in the mid 1800's did the States (such as Texas) begin to criminalize abortion in its entirety.

So perhaps a slide back to the 1200's on this issue wouldn't be all that bad?

:shrug:
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #44
50. well, if we go back to 2000 BC or 500 AD
that might be good

the dark ages and days of inquisitions is probably a bad idea, don't you think?
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #50
57. In general absolutely...but abortions were probably for the most part
legal during those times too - I think the baby was considered a part of the mother and not an individual until birth or until it became quick.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. Suburban security moms
would get their paxil dosage adjusted, hop in their suv's, go home and wallow in the soaps, forget about their college years as radical feminists (again), and vote pretty much the way they are currently voting. After all them fern terrsts could attack at any moment.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Those moms have daughters
And when their daughters wind up in a family way and have no option but to drop out of school and have a kid that the suburban mom will have to raise, the issue will become very personal. I think you underestimate suburban mothers. That's a highly involved demographic.

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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. The option would be a weekend shopping trip
to LA with a stop at a doctor's office.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #25
67. WHo could afford that?
No, you're talking about upper classes, not middle class suburbia. No mother wants to become a criminal for trying to save her daughter's future. That's only the upper class Bush clones, who don't care about the law, not the middle classes in suburbia trying to make ends meet. We're the ones who get furious at the government trying to take over our lives, when they are difficult enough already. The Republicans have been effective at convincing people they would better safeguard our rights, but let Roe v Wade get overturned and the governments start to dissolve abortion rights, and that perception will switch so quickly the Republicans will wonder what hit them as they clean out their desks.

I believe Bush chose Roberts to fail, and to give the Dems something to feel triumphant about, so we'd quit worrying about Rove. I think Rove himself was a gift to distract us from the DSM. Each time a scandal heats up in this administration, they throw us another scandal to distract us. That's all Roberts is. Bush is the last one who really wants to overturn Roe v. Wade.
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ribrepin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
70. No, the option would be a weekend shopping trip to Canada
Poor people in the South wouldn't have any options.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
79. Ding, ding ding
Those suburban daughters won't face a 12-hour drive to another state for an abortion, or trying to find someone to take care of their other five kids while they go, or facing the loss of their job because they're not allowed to call off work.

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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
32. I hope you are right.
My low opinion of the suburban security mom voter is only exceeded by my vastly lower opinion of the white male suburban voter.

Relatively few of them will have a personal experience that will cause them to wake the fuck up, as in their daughter got pregnant. Their ability to empathize with 'others' and more importantly to escape from the media bullshit cocoon they are wrapped in is not good.

Unlike social security, reproduction rights are not the type of third rail issue we might hope they are.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
64. Well, being as I am a white male suburban voter, and my spouse is
a white female suburban voter, and the block of Democrats on my street all fit that description, I would say your biases need re-evaluating. There are a lot of teenage daughters in suburbia. Suburbia is just uniquely designed to keep scandals quiet.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. exception proves the rule
Yes of course there are Democrats out here. Heck I too am a white suburban male voter. Just go look at the voter demographics. All I'm saying is that I do not think this issue will be the third rail we might hope it is, the shock that will push voters to the left. There are indeed lots of teenage daughters in suburbia, but how many of them actually get pregnant every year?
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. Enough
Enough of them get pregnant to make it an issue.

I've watched the polling even here in Texas for local candidates. A liberal can pick up three or four points immediately in suburbia if their opponent is anti-abortion, even in a conservative district.

It is definitely a winning issue, and moreso in suburbia than anywhere else. The urban vote already goes Dem, the rural vote already goes Repub, and abortion won't change that. The suburbs is the swing vote. Why do you think Hillary is pandering to them? That's where elections are decided. And abortion is a big issue.

Burb voters aren't involved 24/7. They hear the news, and vote as they ae told. But let an issue affect them directly, and they pay attention. I'm not saying the burbs will rise up as one voice. I'm saying that abortion would sway the percentages away from the Repubs, and significantly.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. The republican party would be over.
I seriously believe that. People who right now don't care one way or the other would snap out of their lethargy when told their teenage daughters can't get an abortion -- that they can't abort a Down's syndrome baby -- that their kids' babysitter just died from a self-induced hanger abortion.

It's one of the few issues that affects people directly. And the anti-abortion crowd is -- IS -- the minority.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Agreed...I thought the exact same thing this morning...
Don't forget....that their daughter's rapist shouldn't be punished by seeing his unborn baby aborted. Some congressman actually said that. Jeezus, where do these people come from?

I really don't think this will ever come up. Reagan never brought it up, Bush Sr. never brought it up, and Jr's sidestepped it since day one, after he wooed the religious right. They've had many opportunities and have known better than to approach it. They're crazy but not stupid.
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abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. Definitely Agree
It could be the best thing that happens for the progressives. The pendulum could swing very far left! Coat hanger deaths are a thing of the past for many. If it starts to happen again, we will go forward and there will be another Roe v. Wade.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. It would become a state issue
just like before Roe V. Wade became law. Each state would be able to decide.
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Child_Of_Isis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
38. And it would effect the really poor.
Folks with access to money would just go to another state to have it done. So, the really poor folk would have the monopoly on births. We know that is not what the republicans want. If they hate anything more than women, it is the poor.
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GeekMonkey Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
73. But republicans LOVE poor people
That's why they are actively creating so many!
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. One Hell of a lot more Democrats...
The Democrats busted their ass for all sorts of things people take for granted, like Social Security, the right to choose, etc. There are obsiously many out there who plan to enjoy Social Security but vote for those who would destroy it. There are many who want the right to an abortion but vote Republican. Well, now we'll see. These folks are serious about winning on this one. I'd hate to see it happen, so many deaths, injuries, and ongoing tragedies. If it does, it will radicalize about 70% of America within months.
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getmeouttahere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. Great points, autorank...
we often forget that those issues you mentioned are among many that the sheeple often vote against their interests. But the real problem I have with this country is that the sheeple vote against the interests of others as well - they have no interest in anything outside their small little circle.

Go Raiders!
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
81. Well, lets hope for an "enlightenment" ... a flowering of the collective
intellect...wait, I'm on the wrong planet.

Yes, lets how there are no manic episodes before the next Super Bowl and that the veterans have threatened Mr. Moss with his life to get him to perform to his great potential. Nice to win a few now and then...being a Raider fan is like being a Democrat sometimes.
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
40. I sure hope you're right, Mr. Rank
I would sure hate to witness the R's gaining further ascendancy and the vast human tragedies of unplanned and unwanted pregnancies. :-( BTW, great screen name. If I had to rename myself, it might be miltonericksonfan.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #40
82. ...but...but, how can you be paradoxical with yourself!
Uncle Miltie, not a bad choice.

:hi:
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
7. In the current environment? Not much.
The people who would be motivated to oust the powers that be are already not voting for them.

I don't think the problem we have is one of dispassion on the part of progressives. I think it's due to an increasingly socially conservative population. Frankly, short of breeding a lot of Democrats, I don't have a good solution.
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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
8. Illegal abortions would be back. The pro-women's rights groups
would be up in arms. There are 20,000 abortions every year. A lot of unhappy women out there. There was also the comment that maybe the crime rate is low because of abortion - people who really don't want babies have gotten rid of them and these are the people most likely to raise criminals because of the environment in which their raised.

I'm still trying to figure out how these people got as far as they did. They have half the population bamboozled. And it was women who defeated the equal rights for women amendment. I don't think there will be rioting in the streets.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. The political terrain would undergo a siesmic shift.
The christian right is built on the back of legal abortion.
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Sparkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
13. Poor and the demoralized will be providing cannon fodder for the machine.
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
14. It wouldn't make much difference on the political landscape.
The abortion decision would go back to the states. Those states already hostile to abortion rights would continue to be, and probably most red states would eliminate the right except in rare cases. I can't see any red states changing color to blue because of this. Most of the voters in the red states are comfortable with restricting abortion rights. No net change politically.

In the blue states, there will continue to be battles as the right wing elements attempt to repeat on the state level what they would have just succeeded at doing at the Federal level. Probably a few blue state governments would swing more to the right as the anti-choice groups poured in resources.

Pro-choice just doesn't strongly motivate as many voters as anti-choice does. For the anti-choice crowd, it's the only issue that matters. For pro-choice, it's mixed in with lots of other things and has a lower priority. In that sense, it's like environmental protection.

Losing Roe would not help the Democrats much. It wouldn't help the Repugs much either.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
15. if Roe v. Wade is overturned, repulicans lose
they need this issue to get votes, i don't think it will be overturned. it is too much of an important issue for them. it trumps everything. if they don't have the evil abortonists to take up arms against they will not be able to motivate their base. only time will tell i guess....
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #15
33. Yes, exactly.
It's their single most effective hot-button issue to rally the rabid right. Does anyone think they'll give it up easily?
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
16. The Gender gap would become a gender canyon
Pro choice women who have been voting Republican would abandon them in droves. Up until now I really think most people didn't think that it was possible for this to happen so didn't really factor it into their voting all the time. If it's overturned...it will be the only issue for many of these women!!!
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. I agree completely - see my post below.
They cannot survive without pro-choice woman.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
17. The Republican Party would be destroyed from within
This decision will bring the most phenomenal backlash you have ever seen in your lifetime. There will be massive political upheaval and the repuke party, without this issue and with internal strife (remember the 70% who don't want R v. W overturned includes a LOT of Repukes) that will cause the party to segment and ultimately fall out of power in a relatively short period of time.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
19. At least 20 states would immediately pass laws banning abortion
Most of the South & Midwest - Utah, Texas, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Wyoming, North & South Dakota, etc. - would pass laws either outright banning abortion, or severely restricting it (i.e., only in cases of rape & incest) Attempts to pass a national law banning abortion will fail, I believe.

New England, NY, NJ, California and others would keep abortion legal and then the fundies will go state by state to pressure those states where it may be close - i.e., Red states with Blue governors (Montana, North Carolina, Virginia) - and then slowly, over time, get it banned state by state by state until they can either pass a national law banning abortion or get all 50 states to do it.

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formerrepuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. Then there will follow the inevitable laws prohibiting women to cross
state lines to get an abortion in another state.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #19
29. I don't agree
I think very few states (1-3) would ban abortions. Many others would pass various restrictions though.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. despite my headline
I did say in the text of my response that it would be either banning it or severely restricting it.

I had thought I read somewhere that quite a few state legislatures already have laws written up in anticipation of Roe v Wade being overturned...
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
21. Rich, white women would still be able to get abortions
they'd just be called "D and C's". Abortion will be illegal in most states--writing into law what's already in practice; 87% of U.S. counties have no abortion provider. Poor women will have few options: illegal abortion or unwanted pregnancy. Some states may enact draconian measures, such as requiring doctors to certify that pregnancies are brought to term, and/or requiring women to report miscarriages to the police. Both have been proposed as law in various states. Roe also goes to the heart of the privacy issue in the U.S.--does the government have the right to peer into every pregnant woman's uterus?
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #21
59. You can probably drop all racial qualifiers and just leave 'rich.' nt
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formerrepuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
23. As has already been mentioned: the anti-choice crowd wants to
move the choice issue to the individual states- where it has a better chance of being restricted, or banned, altogether.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
24. Nothing will happen...except for creating yet another black market
There are not enough people out there who understand or care that what happens in Washington affects them. I'm afraid this is one of those things where we are going to have to get back to the time when a woman needed her husband's permission to obtain birth control before anyone wakes up. Maybe even that won't be enough.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
27. We Democrats would be in power within 4 years and stay there for...
at least 20 years.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
28. Not immediate.
It would revert to states' rights, and leave the landscape basically unchanged. Most places where abortions are available now, they would remain available. But there are already states where a person might have to travel for hours, hundreds of miles, to find a place that will perform abortions. In those places, the few remaining clinics will probably be closed down.

After a couple years, as medical and anecdotal evidence beginning to accumulate on underground abortion clinics, women dying from botched illegal abortions, and suicides of desperate women who cannot get an abortion, the movement will start again, and this time get on firmer legal grounds than the iffier aspects of RvW.

The medical right to an abortion will come back. It will only take a couple thousand deaths to do it.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
30. It Would Probably Be Like Slavery
with free states and slave states....


The irony which is delicious regardless of which side of the position you are on are that the states that supported slavery would outlaw abortion and the states that outlawed slavery would legalize or keep abortion illegal....
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
31. Nothing. Nothing at all
Granted, the poverty rate and unemployment rates would probably go up, as would the crime rate.

The number of unsafe abortions would rise as women end up seeking out "back alley" abortions or DIY jobs. From that, deaths and injuries would increase.

But would the nation notice? Maybe

Would they make the association though?

Probably not.

Making abortions illegal won't change people's day to day life immediately, so it won't really matter to them. And when these problems inevitably show up, they will just blame Democrats, as they have been trained to do.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #31
41. Wow,
Making abortions illegal won't change people's day to day life immediately, so it won't really matter to them. And when these problems inevitably show up, they will just blame Democrats, as they have been trained to do.



That's one of the saddest commentaries on the state of our fellow citizens I've read. Unfortunately, I agree.
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drhilarius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
85. You nailed it. nt
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Divameow77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
34. "They" seem to think
girls will just stop having sex.

If abortion was only allowed in the case of rape, what do you think would be the requirements to get one? I'm not sure how that would even work sensibly. Would a woman have to report the rape to police within a certain amount of time? What if she didn't she's SOL? I don't get how anyone thinks this would work.
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alkaline9 Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
35. It would certainly leave the door open...
...for someone like Hillary to rally MANY MANY female votes all across this great land. We could see history in the making... a female president... *GASP* oh how those neo-cons would squirm at such an idea ... especially another Clinton hahaha.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
36. i believe all us reasoned people would create a network
of availability to abortion.

give dems position of opening discussion of abortion in reason instead of the emotion the repugs do. it would become a reality for many that havent thought it through, but have allowed a nothing thinking conditioning of religious murdering a baby be their picture.

it would give dems a strong foundation of what to fight in 2006. and the necessity of binging back balance to washington. in senate and house

many people are opening eyes to this. they saw it with schiavo. this is a continuation of that

also, i think we should bring in the gay thing and hash it out right here and now too. challenge what america wants to be. discriminative and unchristian, or....dems position......christian, wink, humane loving righteous individual right civil right.

sometimes, it has to be shown, what people are wanting to really see the repercussion and it really is not a word they want

will also give dems the strong platform of demanding all these babies, mouths to feed. pump up welfare. minimum wage, family cant feed the children. get wage up. make wage livable. create the health care. if we are demanding all these fetuses come to fruition, then a network has to be created. i will not be barbarian and demand this fetus step into a world of hunger.

you use it. all the way. it is what religion and repugs and holier than thou have been demanding. it is what they point and me and say you murderer. you arent christian.

this si the reality they want. lets talk this reality

always in conversation with catholic friends on abortion, and others, i ask them, so you out law it. now what. none can answer. well now is time to start that debate. now what. you tell me the repercussion and what we are going to do. this is your day of reckoning, you have to answer

we use it

that is how i see you fight.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
39. Someone will invent "at home" abortion do it yourself kits
desperate circumstances calls for desperate measures and women and young girls in "trouble" will find a way; or their boyfriends will find a way, to do it themselves.
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alkaline9 Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #39
47. marketed and sold by....
...Halliburton?!? Any way to make money from your best buddies legislation....
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
42. Poor Women Would Definitely Be Forced To Have Unwanted Pregnancies
but women of means would just go to states where abortion is available....

Roe v Wade has great symbolic power in motivating folks who think a fetus is human and abortion is murder and folks who believe outlawing abortion is an attack on a woman's sovereignty...
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #42
83. I would hope that charitable organizations
would come into existence to set up an above ground railroad getting people wanting abortions to places where they are allowed.

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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
43. Wire Coathangers at Wal-Mart: $66.60 per dz
Seriously, more women will die, get arrested for murder, death row, as well as the doctor.

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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
45. price of coat hangers would skyrocket, a massive cottage industry would
fill the void and women would die is horrific numbers.. especially young girls with religiously oppressive families.. or husbands. since after Rove is removed a series of draconian laws involving the distribution of birth control would follow.

women will have to provide a Marriage certificate and a notarized statement by their husband they approve of the sale of birth control to their chattel. unmarried women will be denied birth control, because providing it would be an approval of fornication.
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
46. my very first blog post at TPM - mental health crisis
http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/20/114921/197

Overturning Roe v. Wade would spark a huge mental health crisis`

By steve2470

A few words about mental health consequences of overturning Roe v. Wade.


Jul 20, 2005 -- 11:49:21 AM EST
I believe, as a mental health professional, that overturning Roe v. Wade would spark a huge mental health crisis in this country. Why ? Let me list the reasons: 1- Unplanned pregnancies would cause even more angst about getting an abortion, which would be illegal and would have to obtained either outside the USA, "with a coathanger", or in a far-away jurisdiction that kept it legal; 2- Obtaining a "coat hanger abortion" would cause medical problems for some women, thus sparking mental health problems; 3- There would be MORE guilt and anguish with women who obtain abortions, since it is now illegal (read "sinful"); and 4- Raising kids who are truly unwanted would cause women to become depressed, angry, resentful and sink even deeper into poverty. I could probably think of a few more, but you get the picture. So, perhaps the giant pharmas would like illegal abortions, so they can sell more antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications. Hate to be cynical but increasing business makes upper management smile. Have a better day, pro-choice voters.
Steve
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Malingerer Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
48. Wel.... I for one....
Will buy stock in whoever makes Trojans.

And the company that provides the latex for condoms.

Birth control is so easy now with the shot.... this should be a non-issue.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. You do realize they are targeting birth control also?
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:14 AM
Original message
Dupe
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 11:18 AM by Kathy in Cambridge
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. Not all women can use hormone-based birth control
and they are targeting birth control in general for further restrictions.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #48
56. um, what makes you think people aren't using contraception NOW?
Contraception fails. Women are raped, and not all of them are on the Pill. Young girls whose only sex education has been the "abstinence only" bullshit don't know the facts and become pregnant through ignorance.
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #48
60. I agree. I'd like to see the numbers showing how many women there are ON
birth control (actively taking steps to prevent pregnancy) and are either not healthy enough to bring the baby to term or simply don't want to.

It seems to me that it would be a pretty low number today.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #60
68. and will you then decide for them
that they're too healthy to need an abortion? If my contraception fails because my ob/gyn prescribed a BC pill that doesn't work properly because of the antiseizure med I'm taking to prevent headaches and I then conceive a child while taking a drug known to cause birth defects, can I then have an abortion? Pretty please? :sarcasm:

Seriously, I can't imagine that women would be using abortion as their primary means of contraception, when condoms are much cheaper and easier to come by, yet the anti-choice crowd would have us believe that our county is chock-full of women with to-do lists that read "sex on Monday, do nails on Tuesday, abortion on Wednesday."
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #68
75. Of course I wouldn't decide. In Britain, I believe it is decided by the
physician with two concurring physicians.

And I didn't say I wanted to outlaw abortions. I'm just thinking that the number is lower because of the wide array of preventive techniques today.

Not saying that a lot of women use abortion as birth control but I personally know two who have.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #48
77. Ever had that shot?
I had one, and I've never been so sick in my life. It was like the worst day or my period ever, for three months. All the nausea, the pain, the heavy bleeding, along with the worst mood swings I've ever had.

My best friend had a much easier time with it and used it for years, but when she went off it and was ready to have a baby, her ovaries never restarted.

Another woman I know put on 15 lbs on depo provera.

No birth control is 100% safe and reliable so accidental pregnancies are still with us (mine is watching Blue's Clues right now,) and some of the options out there have really shitty side effects. Even the most reliable effect women differently. Even if we did have 100% perfect birth control, abortion would still be a needed option for pregnancies gone wrong, pregnancies after rape or incest, situations where the guy takes off when he finds out his partner is pregnant, etc.
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
51. two words .. Civil War
or at least Verbal Civil War. They think we are crazy and pissed now. Go ahead and try to regulate my body! You think bra burning was bad
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Divameow77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
54. Adoption,
but don't give the unwanted babies to the evil gay couples.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #54
58. Who would adapt 8674652443004948576 babies????
Get Real....
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Divameow77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. I agree
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
55. Canada would have a curious and unexplained rise as a
popular short term vacation destination for women of child bearing ages.

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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
62. Woman would purchase RU486 via the Internet from India
Using Ru486 without the advice of a doctor is not as dangerous as a coat hanger back alley operation but it's still dangerous.

If woman have complications and go to the ER is the ER going to be compelled to look for RU486?

Will the left be able to make hay of the Republican's movements criminalization of private medical decisions?
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. And according to one study: Crime will go up. n/t
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
66. people being awfully glib about "coat hangers" -warning graphic-
Let us never forget the harvest of lonely horrific deaths that denial of abortion rights has caused
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jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
71. One of 2 things
1st possibility: It goes back to the states so each state can decide for itself what it wants

2nd: abortion will be ruled illegal thereby making it illegal everywhere and so people will be going to Cananda, Mexico, etc for them
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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
72. Perhaps Republicans would be the angriest if that happened;
I've known too many girls whose rich, conservative parents made them get abortions in high school, for several reasons, including the fact that the 'father' was of a different race (ahem). Ultra right-wingers can't stand the 'disgrace' or the 'failure' of having a pregnant teenage daughter.

Or maybe the wealthy ultra-Right's will be the only ones who can afford abortions, and would have to do so illegaly,in secret, and at great cost. They have a set of values whose rules they pick and choose to follow as it best suits them at the time.

A LOT of teeenage rich girls with holier-than-thou parents are having sex and getting pregnant. Constantly.

This is not even counting the poorer conservative parents who force abortion on their daughters due to race issues only. As far as I saw in my small town (I don't live there now), the rest tend to prepare to have a new baby around.
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
76. IF they manage to reverse Roe -V- Wade several things will happen.
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 01:08 PM by davsand
First off, women will revolt. Period. There is an old second world war song that goes something like, "How ya gonna keep them down once they've seen old Paree..." and to be honest, I think it is probably very applicable here. Women will simply refuse to return to a time when forced pregnancy was a rule of thumb.

Look for women to organize underground clinics where early vacuum aspiration abortion is done by nurses and nurse practitioners and trained lay people. In the bad old days they called it "menstrual extraction" and it will come back into vogue.

Look for women to organize underground railroads to places where abortion is legal and safe.

Look for online sources for RU 486 to be shipped from outside the US border.

Expect that many of the women who are of childbearing years (or who have daughters who are) will probably become rabid voters.

There will be a massive civil war inside the Dem party if they abandon women. Period. (Hell, I'll LEAD the war if it comes to that--and I hold office as a Dem!)

There will be a mass exodus of women to a third party, and it will include both Dem Women and GOP women who are pro-choice.

-----

Those are my predictions about the future IF the wingnuts do overturn Roe. Frankly, I doubt they will. My personal expectation is that the GOP can't afford to give up the issue of abortion. They need it to keep the troops rallied and the money coming in.

How far do you think the national GOP will get with a fundraising appeal that asks for money to increase corporate tax exemptions? Equally dismal--what if somebody runs on a platform of decreasing income taxes for the upper 1% of the population?

They NEED abortion far more than a lot of people realize.

Additionally, I don't think it is possible to determine the backlash that would result from over turning Roe. I honestly think that it would probably de a death sentence for the GOP conservative wing.

I dunno. I honestly hope that they just leave it alone. Too many women and girls are gonna die if they return abortion to the hacks and the back alleys.


Laura
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
78. It'd become a state issue
A few ultraconservative states would ban it, some others would pass severe restrictions, some would largely leave it alone. Naturally the ones that leave it alone would get a large increase in people stopping by for them. Wouldn't effect the upper class or those that live in the blue states much, but it would be hell for poor women stuck in fundie-land.
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
80. It wouldn't go back to the way it was before
If it was returned to the states it would be a battle in each state. Eventually it would be a winning issue for Democrats. If laws were passed and upheld that made abortion illegal nationally, then the abortion pill would become available on the black market. Some enterprising nation south of the border, maybe in the Caribbean, would establish an abortion economy for those who didn't get the pill in time. Poor women, of course, wouldn't be able to get the out of country abortions as easily, so the poverty population would probably grow, although, keep in mind that Medicaid already doesn't cover abortion in most states, so the difference there might not be as great as one might think at first.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
84. No I think Murkans will just take it.
:sarcasm: After all, there are plenty of homes with loving families for those babies.
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