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"Pick Your Battles" Is The Rallying Cry Of The Already Defeated!

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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 08:55 AM
Original message
"Pick Your Battles" Is The Rallying Cry Of The Already Defeated!
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 09:03 AM by DistressedAmerican
First of all, WE DO NOT PICK! We are not the ones making nominations. We are not the party putting forth policy changes. We are the minority OPPOSITION. Our Battles are picked for us. All we can do is fight them when they come our way or roll over and take the spanking.

"Thank You Sir! May I Have Another?"

Second, "the Pick Your Battles" crowd has been screaming the EXACT SAME THING FOR YEARS! Where has it gotten us. Please feel free to point out even a single instance where not fighting them gained us ANYTHING. Not fighting is a losing strategy and I have plenty of examples why.

Let's review your picks of battles shall we::

Ashcroft - "Lets Pick Our Battles." - Confirmed and abused his authority to new historical levels.

Patriot Act - "Let's Pick Our Battles." - Passed and robbed American citizens of their basic rights to privacy.

Iraq War resolution - "Let's Pick our Battles." - Passed, More than 100,000 Iraqis and nearly 1,800 Americans killed so far at a cost of hundreds of Billions of taxpayer dollars.

Gonzalez - Let's Pick Our Battles." - Confirmed and poised to do as much or more damage to freedom as Ascroft did.

Rice - Let's pick out battles." - Confirmed and now makes damn well sure that the State Department goes along with anything the Chimp tells them to.

Federal Court Nominations - "Let's Pick Our Battles. Save The Ammo For The SCOTUS!" - Deal struck and most confirmed. We have yet to see what damage they will do.

Bolton - "Fuck it! Let's stick this out and stop the guy." - Ass kicked and stalled.


So based on this track record. I say to all of you defeatists, "You have already lost Over and Over." It is time to fight and stand for principle not just cowardly political expediency. Learn from the past people!

What? Are we not going to oppose anything they do until we are the majority party again?

If we don't do you really think the repugs will roll over with this "pick Our Battles" rallying cry of the defeated when we are back in power? Hell no! They will fight us tooth and nail. Their past actions prove that!

We have to be Holmes to their Moriarty, Superman to their Lex Luthor, Spiderman to their Green Goblin. That is how battles are won.

An opposition party opposes!



Mr. Smith Would Not Have Been Counting Votes And Saying, We Can't Win This. Let's Not Even Fight It!"


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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well, for one thing, we are already defeated
President Bush controls the white house, republicans control both houses of Congress. I don't know if that looks like success to you, but to me it looks like defeat.

That doesn't mean I'm advocating giving up or anything - the Game's not over yet. But for the moment we have to realize where we are and determine the best course of action.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. You Describe The Deteatism And Learned Helplessness To A "T".
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 09:09 AM by DistressedAmerican
"we are already defeated"

Maybe you think we are. This game does not have a clock. There is no final score.

If it were a ballgame and your team was loosing would you just walk away and forfeit? Of course not. This is ongoing.

This defeatist logic just hands power over to the team in the lead indefinitely. It does nothing to take back the lead. It is a guarantee that we NEVER hit that game tying run!
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
35. OK, how many houses of Cngress do we control?
Do we have the President?

You didn't read my post, I can tell, just the title. Fine. I'm not saying at all that we should give up, I've always been opposed to that. But neither am I in favor of tactics that do not take into account our current position.

We are not going to be able to stop Roberts from getting hi seat if the Republicans stick to their guns. It's possible we can turn public opinion so far against Roberts that they will break (like with Bork), but it does not seem likely (so far Robert's big trait seems to be lack of much of a record). So what shoudl we do?

Scorched earth tactics might make us all feel good, but are they the most effective for the long term?
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
45. the best course of action
Confuddle them to madness.

Their power is as precarious as all power is. The neocons are juggling. Dancing. Obfuscating.

Throw every issue in the book at them. Throw every banana peel. Throw every ball.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. Two words, "Forty-four Senators"
Can't be done. We don't have the numbers. Now is when we pay for the collective failures of the Democratic Party.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Thanks for towing
the party line.
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greekspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. There may be 44 senators, but that doesn't mean they have to shut up
44 voices is a lot. If they would unite and stop groveling at the Puke's feet, they might get something done.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Look at some of those who make up those 44
Landreau - Yeah, right, Like she's gonna filibuster

Lieberman - You gotta be on crack to think this jackoff would filibuster

Pryor -BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh yeah, like he's got the balls to filibuster. MAKE ME LAUGH!

Bayh - He'd filibuster shortly after hell froze over.

Biden - He SUPPORTED Slappy Thomas, how many hallucinogens does it take to think he'd even remotely consider filibustering Roberts.

OOPS, that's all they need, and there are ten more like them who won't even conisder a filibuster.

We don't have the numbers. All that will happen is a bit of noise will be raised. End of the day, say hello to Justice Roberts.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Admit Defeat A Bunch More.
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 09:19 AM by DistressedAmerican
I Again challenge you to provied a single example of us winning AYNTHING by rolling over.

You can't because there is none. This strategy you so strongly advocate has gotten us screwed over and over. Why do you not see that?

Why is it all about vote counts to you? Don't you believe in fighting for something you believe to be morally correct even when facing overwhelming odds? I guess not.

Like I said, Mr. Smth would not be making his decisions based on vote counts. He'd fight for what was right regardelss of the odds. Wish we had a few Mr. Smith's here!
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I again ask you provide forty-one names of Senators who will filibuster
If you can get forty-one Senators, you've got it made in the shade, but you damn well better get 51 who will vote against the nuclear option as well.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. So If We Do Not Have A Winning Vote Count, We Should Just Give
them what ever they want.

You have repeatedly ignored my requests for a single example of your losing strategy getting us anywhaer. You also keep ignoring my question about whether fighting for principle supreceed all of your damn vote counting.

Please address those two points. You have made yours. It is more defeatism. "We have already lost. Let's not fight." I know what you are saying. It is WRONG.

Now please respond to what I am saying or do not expect me to keep replying. This discussion is pointless as it stands now. You say "No, Don't fight". I say, "Yes, let's do". That is getting is nowhere fast.

You can roll over. I'll keep kicking.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. If you don't, you'll lose even more seats
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 09:41 AM by Walt Starr
I did not make up the rules of war, I only have to operate under them.

The enemy has the high ground. The weather is in his favor. You are outnumbered probably two to one.

Attempting to attack right now is beyond foolish. It is suicidal.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #15
62. always fight... always stand up for what is 'right'...
.... but save your 'all' for the one 'battle' that really matters-
Distressed, i hear you loud and clear- and i can't understand why politicians who 'know better' side with the majority rather than face the wrath of the 'evil empire'- except that maybe it's all about THEM in the long run- being re-elected, monetary interests etc.

But just maybe, this administration will go down with such a 'bang' AFTER getting what they want on nearly everything, that it will destroy it's hopes of ever holding power for a long time..... maybe that is fantasy, maybe its magical thinking, but i feel a change coming.... the rumbling of many unhappy voices in the towns and diners, and cornerstores, people are begining to 'hurt'..... and when the populace gets hurt enough, they are a formidable ally-

The titanic was so ballsy they didn't even design enough lifeboats- it was unsinkable.... well, we all know what happened to it-

PARENTS are told to 'pick your battles'- that is because 'they' supposedly are in control, and 'training' their children- not ADULTS working with GROWN UP CHILDREN - it's time to put up, or shut up- we either stand for something (even if we don't stand in the 'majority') or we FALL for everything- and that is stupidity-

i'm begining to think that notion of "Party" politics, is the root of our countries downfall- there WEREN'T any parties when the founding fathers founded- and the runner up WAS THE VICE PRESIDENT- hah!-

Kerry would replace w? i'll go for that-
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. They won't shut up
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 09:27 AM by Walt Starr
but demanding filibusters on this nomination is beyond stupid.

It's insane.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Like I Said. ALREADY DEFEATED. Glad You Have Given Up!
I have not. I will continue to "pick ny fights" based on what the morally correct position is. You make all of your decisions based on vote counts. It is like you didn't even read my post.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. See post 11
Show me forty-one Senators who would even consider a filibuster and you might be on to something.

I won't hold my breath.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. FIGHT FOR WHAT IS RIGHT! WHAT ARE YOU MISSNG?
French resistance fighters fought fasists at every turn despite the fact that they were occupied and out gunned.

They knew what I am talking about. Apparently it is lost you you and your spineless vote counting.

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. WALK AWAY FROM A BATTLE YOU WILL LOSE SO YOU MAY FIGHT ANOTHER DAY!
What are YOU missing?

This is war. If we throw everything we have at a battle we are doomed to lose from the outset, plus we lose the whole fucking war.

Expanding upon the war analogy, this is like we are the 101st Airborne division at the Battle of the Bulge and instead of hardening defensive positions for the long haul, you want to go out and attack Tiger tanks.

:eyes:
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. When The Hell Do You Suggest We Fight? You Have Walked Away From EVERY
battle! Please tell me your criteria for picking the battle you will fight.

Mine is defending the morally correct thing even in the face of eventual defeat. Yours? Having the votes?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Line up at least 41 for the filibuster and 51 who won't nuke you
then you can fight.

These are the consequences of losing so many Senate seats over the past decade, like it or not.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. You've Already Lost. You Will Not Defend What Is Right.
Over and out.

Your point has been made and you continue to ignore my requests. You refuse to offer a single example of your rolling over getting us anywhere. Yet you calim we will win the war that way. I call bullshit.

I will not keep going around and around with you when you refuse to deal with a single of my points and just keep repeating how we are going to loose. Yeah, I get it.

YOU are going to lose. Not me or the majority of the folks here on this thread.

Sadly this thread has really given me a negative new impression of your views.

This is the last you'll hear from me.

I gave you chance after chance to resapond to my points. Your refusal to do so makes it quite clear you will never listen to reason on this issue. Enjoy your loss.

Have a nice day.
DA
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #37
47. You refuse to offer a single example of how we can fight this one
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 09:59 AM by Walt Starr
Which is the more iditoic position, the guy who decides to dig a foxhole when faced with overwhelming numbers and an enemy who holds the high ground or the guy who runs uphill into their machinegun fire?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
alkaline9 Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #26
38. although your analogy is a little...
...harsh, it is TRUE! Americans have sat by idle as this mis-administration has corrupted our way of life. They have run our name (as a country) into the ground. They have spent our hard earned money, and stolen lots more.

Would you rather follow the current down stream and let yourself be taken down the waterfall to your death? Or would you rather swim with all your might and see what if anything you can get to change in your current poor situation?

If we do not stand up now, then when? Please, don't be passive on this issue! Don't let YOUR AMERICA fall deeper into the crapper! We ALL have rights to speak our mind, and I will back any Democratic leader that is not afraid to fight against these repukes!
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
65. there is a vast difference between
walking away from a battle, and going belly up and surrendering.

Speak the truth, the facts, and your reasons for holding them.
NEVER 'go along' with what is wrong, even if it is momentarily expedient- but when the RIGHT TIME comes- fight to your 'death' for what you know to be right-

Dems need to stand for what 'they claim' to believe in- even if that leaves them labeled and libeled- let the opposition say what ever the hell they want- WE need to know that 'our' elected representatives stand up for our beliefs, even in the face of failure-

i still for the life of me, cannot understand the actions of my fellow dems. following 9/11- but i've lived through some pretty awful things as an individual, and don't believe there is 'safety' in numbers- and United with 'evil' is no better than standing alone to face Golliath.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #65
68. Ask the question. Raise the objections. Get it all out in the open.
I do agree, the questions ened to be raised and the answers need to be on the record.

Attempting to stop this nomination, though, will only result in a far worse defeat.

Roberts will be confirmed. Tehre is no doubt about it. All we can do is demonstrate to the American people why elections matter.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #68
74. the realist
in me says you are right, he will be confirmed-
but the idealist in me, says not without letting our voice be heard loud, clear, and without alot of frivillous rethoric- the REAL issues, in HONEST- REASONED expression.-

The American people need to find out there IS sanity left in this world, and that the Democratic party DOES stand for something- even if we happen to be in the minority of 'elected' voices- we represent a SANE, INTELLIGENT, and STRONG (not just vocal, or bullying- but unafraid to stand against the bullies) and valuable part of the public, which i believe, is the REAL majority of the American people, who are looking for 'leaders' who will lead.- NOT back down from conflict- just because it 'seems' like we'll lose.

bush, gets followers because he stands his ground, even if his ground is a garbage heap (in my opinion).

Unfortunately, those who don't already know elections matter, won't be swayed by Roberts confirmation- they weren't swayed by the patriot act, or this assinine 'war on terra'-

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #74
80. We can let our collective voices be heard in a non-combative way
Ask the questions and demonstrate to teh American people what the consequences are going to be due to the choices made in the last election.

That will do more to reverse course on this than anything else we can do, especially being overtly combative on this nomination.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #80
88. would voting against him
after explaining why we believe he is not 'good' for America, and pointing out the examples of 'why' based on his 'deceptivly' short Judicial career, but pointedly 'anti-...establishment' representation of clients, and causes he took up as an attorney be seen as overly combative in your view?

While a 'criminal' defense attorney may have little 'choice' in the cases that they take, and argue for, the reality of the kind of law he has practiced, (with the exception of pro-bono work) are cases that he clearly shared a common 'belief' in.- Lawyers usually don't take cases that they feel deeply adverse to- Such as rape of the environment for temporary human gain, - corporations over individuals,- and the 'good ol boy' mentality that says affirmitive action is a counter-predjuce, and unnecessiary.?? Not to mention Roe-

i believe there is a great change coming, and it likely won't matter who 'voted, or votes for who'- we have unleashed a monster in America, and that monster hides behind religious fanaticizm- not obl, but gwb- and the money that bought him his present powerhold.

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #88
92. Voting against him is an absolute must
Not for this nomination, but for future nominations.

Hell, an overwhelming confirmation would embolden Bush to put in a real whack job when Rhenquist retires (or more likely is found dead in his bed one morning early this fall due to his numerous ailments).

If you REALLY want to stop Bush dead in his tracks for a whackjob being nominated next go around, you'll HAVE to get at least three Republicans to vote against this guy. If all you have are 39 Democrats voting against him, a whackjob moonbat will be the next nominee guaranteed. If 29 Senators vote against this guy, but four of them are Republicans, you can definitely kiss a whackjhob nomination goodbye.

Best case scenario on Roberts, convince the moderate Republicans you'll be using this nomination against them in their re-election campaigns while shoring up your vulnerable Democrats by having them vote in favor of the guy. Durbin, for example, has taken a hit in Illinois over the flap on his remarks. This is an opportunity for him to shoire up some more moderate support. Landreau, Baucus, Reid, and several others can shore up their support as well by voting to confirm.

This can be turned to a win-win for the Dems even though Roberts will be confrimed no matter what, but it requires strategic thinking.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. Hey, if your message is FIGHT NO MATTER WHETHER YOU'LL WIN OR LOSE
why do you need everyone else to join you?

Go ahead - fight a battle you'll lose.

I'll worry about the war.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Name One Time Your Not Fighting Strategy Has Gained Us ANYTHING!
Do that or you have already defeated your own logic.

I offered you an example of us fighting and winning and plenty of examples of us not fighting and loosing.

You're strategy will not win a qwar. It guarantees the jackbooks keep screwing us. Simple as that.

Please show otherwise. One example. Just one. Please!
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. There are fronts in which you'll lose, fight or no fight.
Please let us know your strategy to fight this one.

Filibuster?

How many nominees are you willing to filibuster?

How many before the Congress eliminates the filibuster option?

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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. Are You Going To Respond To My Questions? Is Anyone Advicating This Logic
going to?

The details of the fight are to be worked out. I want a commitment to work on some strategy. You want a commitment not to.

I'm sorry. But, you are dead wrong. Please give me one example of your strategy or this is the last yopu hear from me.

Your claim that we will lose is proof of nothing. I have heard it before and watched the appeasers roll over time and time again.

When has rolling over EVER GOTTEN US ANYTHING?

Without a single example your claim that we will somehow win the war this was is patently rediculous!

I have given you my "evidence". Where is yours?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Fine - if you needn't worry about numbers or strategy, just run off at
anything, go ahead.

You say you needn't worry about the numbers on your side, so you shhould do fine.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. No, I Say We Should Stand On Principle. Too Bad You Think We Shouldn't!
Last message as you continue to ignore all of my questions.

Have a nice day.
DA
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #44
48. Go ahead - insult your allies some more. No wonder you're "winnning".
Thanks.
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alkaline9 Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #48
54. please stop this internal...
...fighting. We obviously all have the same general goals. This has been the problem with the party for some time.

I can see both sides. I can understand how you wouldn't want to stand up to the powerful lose-lose situation, but at the same time there is absolutely nothing wrong with letting your voice be heard loud and proud.

BushCo has let his voice (ignorant as it may be) be heard time and time again. And guess what? HE'S WINNING! And he's nearly brainless (without Rove it's questionable anything would be going on up there in that hollow vessel). If you do not have the strength to stand up to this fight, fine. But please don't be down on those activists who have just recently began their 2nd wind so to speak. I think we can all agree that things need to change. Those that choose to fight to good fight, regardless of outcome, are applauded in my book.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. Then those "activists" should build alliances, not insult and demean those
who share their goals.

In the last 24 hours on DU I've been told I'm a sheep for paying any attention to Roberts, a defeatist for not instantly screaming filibuster, and that I don't care about civil rights (despite it being my primary issue).
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #56
93. mis-placed
anger and frustration- but Mondo, ya gotta admit, what we've been 'doing' (or not doing) isn't working-
When the kind of shit (pardon my words, but i'm really plain speaking here, not "pretendin ta be a cowboah"- like taking the nation to pre-emptive war, like lying, and not being called out on it- from his DWI, through his 'war' experience, when a man who has NEVER faced the real concequences of his f-d up actions, stands up and preaches about holding people 'accountable' or 'bringing justice to the enemy'- when he doesn't have a clue what justice is-
When the government hides thier lies, cronism, dirty deals, and nepotisim, their ignorance, and arrogance behind 'security' or 'anti-terror' bullshit, and have taken a country from one where who you choose to marry, or worship, or associate with, or when you are dying, and want to die with dignity matters MORE than killing thousands of innocent people, allowing our own citizens to languish and die for lack of medical care, bankrupting our futures, and our great grandchildrens futures to line the pockets of the fat, rich, corporate executives- then
something has GOT to be done-

Even if we "pull out" of Iraq now, we have unleashed, and planted the seeds of hatred and the desire for revenge (understandible, but counter-productive) that will not allow the world to recover for decades- if ever-

My life doesn't matter much to me anymore, but i would truly like to leave this world, knowing that my children, who are just begining, have a 'chance' to find their days here worth facing, and even if only on occasion, a joyous, wonderful experience.-

i'm sorry you've been raged at- i find, most of the time, the people we least 'desire' to hurt, and want most to treat well, are the ones who recieve the 'worst of us'- usually because they are the ones we 'trust' enough to be 'real' with- sad- sad- sad.

(and a sheep is not a 'bad animal'- vuneralble, innocent, trusting and not a predator, but not bad-) If we were all wolves, there'd never be any rest eh??
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
57. Forget the Senators!
Forget the Congress! Remember who we are:

We are the American People!

We put them in there, we can take them out!
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #57
61. Great! Now please telll us how to implement that ideal.
Thank you.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #57
103. You've got the numbers to "take them out" in Texas?
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 03:28 PM by Walt Starr
How about South Carolina?

What about Georgia?

Think you can do it in Wyoming?

Maybe Kansas?

Electing Senators is a helluva lot different from electing your mayor.
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greekspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. Now get the pantywaists in the legislature to behave this way
We are in a cultural civil war for the heart of America. It is the worst one since at least Vietnam, and maybe since the Civil War. The Republican propeganda machine is like a Sherman tank, and our legislative dems throw verbal toothpicks at it while it continues to steamroll everything we hold dear. We can write letters to these pantywasts till we all have carpal tunnel syndrome, and it seems it will not do any good.

Any time a dem does say something appropriate, he or she is taken off at the knees in the MSM. This is where we come in, where we can fight that damned tank. Badger the media into reporting the truth. They have been getting a backbone lately. They are actually doing something, much to the BADministration's suprise. Once the media starts breaking the treads on the Puke Tank, it will soon be disabled.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. What Was That They Used In "Saving Private Ryan? I Think They Called
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 09:13 AM by DistressedAmerican
it a "sticky bomb". Took out that Fascist tank right good despite the fact that they were hopelessly out gunned in the battle.

Great analogy!
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. Right on brother!
I'm not taking this lying down!!! When it's time to march on Washington DC for women's rights, I'm THERE! At least all my female friends know I'm with them until the very end, no matter what naysayers vomit on this board.

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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
27. Thank you Swamp Rat...the women are starting to organize
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 09:39 AM by mtnester
strangers in lines speaking out last night, groups of women, strangers all, moving closer together at the coffee shops to talk about their new fears that were just on the fringe yesterday morning, but slapped them in the face at 9:00 last night.

We are slower to anger, but maybe a tad more methodical on organizing our thoughts, and we will do damage when we need to.

Rolling over on this WILL be steamrolling the rights of every woman that lives in this country, and will be just the BEGINNING of what will come. I personally do not care to take a 50 year step BACKWARD in history, PARTICULARLY as my gender outnumbers the male gender (and this really defines and makes clear the fear this admin and the PNAC have of women)

Go ahead, piss us off good. Repub leadership will automatically, what really sucks is when your OWN PARTY does it to you too.

The numbers in DC may not give us a win, but each and every Dem that does not stand up there and try to defend our rights, they do not deserve to be there, and do not deserve to have the "D" after their name.

And thank you also to the doomsayers on this board for reminding me that in order to stand up for my rights, "I" will have to do it myself, cause I sure can't count on YOU.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #27
39. "Rolling over on this WILL be steamrolling the rights of every woman"
YES! And it looks like some DUers are willing to let it happen, thinking somehow this is a battle we shouldn't fight... just lay back and tolerate the rape, and hope for better luck next time? Fuck that!

You can count on me mtnester! When it is time to march on DC, I will be there with you!!!

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jojo54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
10. Four Words-GOONIES NEVER SAY DIE!!!
Sorry, not trying to refer to DUers as goonies, but the quote from the movie came to mind while I was reading these replies. In a sense though, it fits. Goonies are underdogs, which we are at the moment.

A typical thing here: notice the frequent us of the word "battle(s)". Republicans=war (for profit).
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
12. I Notice Nobody Seems To Have A Single Example Of How Rolling
over has EVER gotten us ANYTHING.

Let's start there. Do not tell me we have to roll over unless you have an example of that working.
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alkaline9 Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. I agree, the repukes are more likely to...
...budge a little if us dems keep being a thorn in their side. What they want is for us to roll over and take it in the proverbial ass. I am behind my party doing whatever it takes to stand up loud and strong to these neo-con fascists.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Glad To Have You On Our Team! I Love When The Hardcore
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 09:34 AM by DistressedAmerican
progressives join and start posting. We need more like you around here!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
13. True, but play smart
and deny them the agenda message.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
24. Your opening line says it all.
Excellent post, long overdue.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
30. The Republicans will be nice to us if we surrender. Won't they?
Same tune, same whimper, same rationale.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. And Worse Yet, The Same Gutless Loss To Fascists!
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
33. The Bushie RWing agenda has been so 'successful'...
...because they know the Dem party won't put up a fight. (The 2000 selection proved this point) They also know that they can count on the 'centrists' to be on their side and argue for 'bipartisanship' and cooperation.

There are many 'fighting Dems'...but the DLC's corporate money and press has marginalized them to the point where they have NO voice within the party. Look at what Conyers tried to do...with only a few Dems in congress and no one in the Senate joining in his campaign against Bushie corruption.

The Democratic party is under the control of those who would rather WORK WITH BUSH than be a real loyal opposition. Get rid of the enablers and let's fight the good fight.
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MadAsHellNewYorker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
36. Thanks DA
good words!

:yourock:
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
40. you have the right idea
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 09:48 AM by bigtree
I keep wondering where our party will stand in the way of Bush. I keep hearing these calls to forget the present fight, save capital for the next battle. What good is it to elect people to oppose Bush if they won't mount oppositions?
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
43. On edit: I disagree, but Im glad you are fighting.
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 09:53 AM by K-W
I think DU needs to just agree to disagree on this one. We all have to follow our own ethics.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. I'm glad you edited that.
Thank you. I've about had it with some DUers shitting on our efforts, however small they be.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
49. It's the Big Picture -- Not just specific battles
I agree with you.

The problem is we always seem to see things as specific battles, instead of One Big Battle.

The reason we lose is not because we lose specific fights. It's because we don't fight the fights in the first place.

Democrats and progressives have the Truth on their side. The majority of Amnricans see things in the same terms we do. The problem is that we never make it clear what we are on the side of.

Rove is the same issue as the Supreme Court. WHO IS DOING WHAT TO THE COUNTRY AND WHO BENEFITS.

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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #49
109. you can't "win" the war if you keep passing on the battles
waiting for the "perfect" one to come along...i agree with you and DA.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
50. not many winston churchills in the dem party eh? n/t
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Churchill didn't fight every battle either - he focused on winning the war
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. He Fought Enough To Win The War. What Have You Fought?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. I urged Congress to fight Ashcroft's nomination, to go for the filibuster
compromise, to not support the war and several other things.

I've advocated fighting when I thought there was a point to doing so.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #58
64. No Point In Defending Women's Rights To Control Their Bodies?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. No point to filibustering this particular nominee -- if he were a more
rabid right winger maybe so; if he hadn't the dem alliances he already has maybe so.

Sorry if my inability to go frothing at the mouth without any strategy offends you.
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
51. You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money
for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
Ah

ah, ah, ah, ah, ah...

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. That Argues What Exactly?
:shrug:
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #53
60. It doesn't argue anything. Just a song I like. I've never understood
the lyrics. We have a lot in common.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #60
70. Silly Me. I Though It May Be A Comment On This Thread. Sounds Like You
have a fine lounge post there.

:freak:
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #70
105. Your comprehension of the lyrics speaks volumes.
:rofl:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #105
107. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. I count three responses, Einstien.
:smoke:
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
59. Amen DA-"Let's pick our battles" is the wail of the LAZY, imho
I hear the same crap all the time; if I recommend writing a letter to a station manager or editor instead of simply bitching about the issue on DU, I always get replies from lazy defeatists who say "letters do no good anyway. They control everything. I PICK MY BATTLES". What battle-the battle between deciding to eat pizza or mac and cheese tonight? The battle to decide between posting about song lyrics or Angelina Jolie in the lounge? Some of these people have THOUSANDS of posts-and they manage to come up with another lame excuse as to why they won't write a fucking letter or make a phone call??? Maybe they simply ENJOY having shit to complain about. :grr:
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
63. The IS a time to fight an already lost battle.
I am one of those who has many times in past post advocated picking your fights. In general that means avoiding fights that you will lose and fighting when you think you can win. But sometimes, like at the Alamo, you need to fight a battle, even if it will be suicidal. This is one of those battles. Yes, it is likely that we will lose and Roberts will be confirmed, but we need to make it cost W as much political capital as we can.

On this one we go down fighting. Here we are fighting for principle and for 1/9 of the supreme court, rather than some minor point on some bill.

If we roll over on this one, he will go even further to the right next time. He is almost certain to have one more chance to nominate a justice, and possibly two or even three (Although I don't think three is likely) more chances.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #63
71. the repub. strategy is exactly
what you are pointing out-

They are COUNTING on 'us' saying, (even amongst oursleves) 'we can't win this one'-
SO in effect- we do more than 'back off' we surrender-
And what 'thinking' person will continue to elect politicians who are afraid to face the dragon???? Who EXACTLY are the best 'dems' among us?

in my view, they are those who don't give a shit how their stand may 'look' or 'the odds of winning' or 'being labeled a fanatic'- they are the ones who HAVE an agenda, and are not going to put it aside simply because it 'looks bad'-

America SHOULD never have won against the brittish, we were outnumbered, under'armed' and under powered- we should have lost before we began- but the SPIRIT and RESOLVE that what 'we' were doing was 'right' and worth fighting for, gave us the victory AGAINST ALL ODDS-

If the 'sheeple' see a party that claims to 'believe' strongly in things, and then backs down, or buckles under time and time again, do you honestly think they'll hop aboard our sinking ship? even if it is the 'platform' that best represents their TRUE beliefs?

Hey, lets go down fighting,- rather than surrendering to the wrong 'right'- at least we'll go down for something rather than be drowned in the wake.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
67. A poker metaphor, with apologies
Like a lot of Americans these days, I play a bit of no-limit Texas Hold 'Em when I have time to head out to my local Indian casino (on-line play does nothing for me). In no-limit, when you're short-stacked, you don't go all-in on 2/7 offsuit. In politics, you don't call in favors, threaten and cajole your colleagues when you know you don't have a snowball's chance in Texas of winning. Your goal is to get all of your chips into the pot when you've got the big pair (or suited connectors at the very least). The goal is to keep radical rightwingers of the SCOTUS, and in doing so to embarrass the hell out of Bushco, and make them look weak and ineffectual. Bushco have committed to a weak hand with Roberts, especially given what he's said about Roe. Time to go all-in.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
69. I've been fighting against these bastards since 1999!
I don't need anyone to tell me what a losing strategy is. I know all about it. I've been fighting just as hard as you have.

Peace.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. I Am Not Sure What You Are trying To Say Here? Fight? Do Not?
Glad you have been fighting.

I'm not dure if you are endorsing the results of that fight or not?
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
73. We still need to win elections or there will be NO party
Rallying calls are fine, but there is still a place for pragmatism. I appreciate what you are trying to do in the repeated hundreds of posts in the last two days, but your's in not the only opinion around here - no matter how many times you scream in our ears.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #73
76. I think There Are Plenty Of Opposing Threads. Can't Stand Some
Disagreement? I guess I should just shut up because you do not like what I have to say.

Contrary to your claim, you do not appear to appreciate anything I am trying to do.

I'll keep "shouting" feel free to put me on ignore. That way you will not have to see my subject lines on your list.

Maybe you should do that with all threads you disagree with. That way you could experience the homogeneous opinions you seem to seek.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #76
85. Thanks for missing my point and acting emotionally
I think your emotional response IS my point - so be it - have fun.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #85
98. Snarf
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #98
102. Recommended reading
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. I Am Sick Of People Quoting Sun Tsu And Acting Like It Has ANYTHING
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 03:32 PM by DistressedAmerican
to do with this situation.

If you are suck a schoar, why have you not defeated these asshats with your ancient military wisdom?

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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #104
106. Good luck with you're 'all or nothing' strategy
Got to go -the issues are calling.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #106
108. Have Fun General...
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
75. Not hardly:
"He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious." - Sun Tzu
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #75
77. He Who Never Fights Will Always Loose. - Distressed American
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #77
78. ...
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 11:39 AM by yowzayowzayowza
"The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy. To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. Thus the good fighter is able to secure himself against defeat, but cannot make certain of defeating the enemy."

-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. What "Profit" Can Come From Never Fighting? Again, Please Give
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 11:44 AM by DistressedAmerican
me a single instance where that strategy has worked for us. People keep trying to act like they have the winning strategy without a single victory to show for the approach.

I have demnonstrated where my strategy has worked. PLEASE offer a single example of a battle you have won this way before arguing that it will win in the end. That is simply an unsupported arrertion.

I have brought my evidence to the discussion. You have brought a bunch or irrelevant quotes. Are you ready to point out a single time your "pick your battles" strategy has worked? Just one?

Please?
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. Where do you see an arguement for..
"never fighting" in those Sun Tzu quotes?
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. What I See Is A Party That Has Not Even tried Fighting Outside Bolton
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 12:44 PM by DistressedAmerican
which we won.

Your quotes are irrelevant.
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. Methinkz ...
fighting THIS battle is worse than irrelevant as it is unwinnable and therefore a waste of ammo.

This:

"Pick Your Battles" Is The Rallying Cry Of The Already Defeated!

is a statement of one who has apparently not lost enough to learn from history.

This nomination certainly deserves some skirmishes, but an all out war taint gunna succeed. OTOH, this:

We have to be Holmes to their Moriarty, Superman to their Lex Luthor, Spiderman to their Green Goblin. That is how battles are won.

really sounds like a winning solution. :eyes:

Yea, whatever. Thx for you passion. Fin.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. Learned Helplessness Is Not My Bag Thanks.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
83. I watched an Aikido demonstration
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 12:52 PM by ClayZ
last night. The sensei, (teacher) was a tiny lady. One part of the demonstration showed how she could easily take on three large male opponents. She simply kept one eye on the next attacker as she rubbed closest mans face to the mat. She tossed the second threw the air and the third went rolling. They would come back and attack and she over threw each again.

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered,
those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.
Thus the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win."


We should keep this in mind!

When they come at you on all sides you can not "Pick your Battles" it is one BIG BATTLE.

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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. Great Analogy And Great Photo!
If I saw those folks on the street, I would not likely assume the one with the grey hair would be the ass kicker. We need to turn into that.

Look Harmless! Be Deadly!
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #83
94. Poor analogy
<<She simply kept one eye on the next attacker
as she rubbed closest mans face to the mat.>>
The lady was prioritizing her resources, and in that sinse she is, indeed, 'picking and choosing her battles'.
She knows better than to try to simultaneously
rub all the attacker's 'faces in the mat'.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. She Bangs!
It is always NOW!
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
89. I'm Sure The British Thought That About Dunkirk
They should have just stood their ground on the beach.

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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
90. amen. nt
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
91. Momma says: 'Your eyes are bigger than your stomach'
This sounds a lot like the Neocon's failed 'multiple wars' strategy.

We do not have unlimited resources at our disposal.
If we fail to task our resources based upon priority
then we will end up spreading our resources too thin.

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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #91
96. You Are Ready To Give Up Reproductive Rights For What Other Fight?
If you are not willing to commit your resources to defend Roe V. Wade, it leaves me wondering what you think is more important.

Why can't you handle attacking (some would call it defending)on multiple fronts? Are you so limited in your time and energy?

If so, maybe you are right to beg off on this one. Me, I feel no drain on my batteries. In fact mine have been newly recharged by our actually fighting them of late.

I can handle a multi-front war with these asshats. The seem to have no trouble attacking us in all fronts. I intend to return the favor!
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. I do attack on multiple fronts, hovever,...
like Dirty Harry said,
"a man's got to know his limitations."
If you have unlimited resources,
then by all means, use them.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. I Pretty Much Do All Day Every Day!
Feel free to visitr my sites for more on all of the fronts I seen the need to attack on.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #91
101. BTW: Roe v Wade is only one...
of many issues I have with Bush's court nominees.
The #1 issue is freedom of speech, as once we lose that,
game's over, we lose -everything.

'If we take control of the legislature and the
executive branch, we will reenforce our
control of the Judicial Branch to direct it
against the Democrats.'
-Grover Norquist

http://www.el-mundo.es/nuevaeconomia/2004/239/109508980...
Translated page:
http://tinyurl.com/5vo7e
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
97. "Pick your battles" is not a rallying cry at all.
It's consolation.

An opposition party never advances its own agenda. If the Dems are not to be permanently relegated to obstructionism, they must have the courage to stand up to their corporate masters--the same ones running teh Repubs, by and large--and start representing actual voters instead of money.
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