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firebee Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:18 AM
Original message
With new wave of photos and video... BE PREPARED!!!!
As many people know... a new wave of photos and videos indicating torturous prisoner abuse are going to be released. What everybody has to remember... if we want this to go to the top... MEMOS.. MEMOS... MEMOS!!!!

A number of officials at the White House and the Pentagon sent several memos back and forth to each other discussing detainment and interrogation. When top level government officials send this many memos back and forth to each other... THAT'S ESTABLISHING A POLICY!!!!

These embarrassing acts should not lie on the shoulders of our soldiers. This entire dilemma was created by this administration and their distorted manipulation of the law.

Here are some of the memos. I think their have been some more released, so I'll get back with those when I find them, but here....

http://texscience.org/reform/torture /

Learn the memos, memorize the memos and recite the memos. This crap is not the fault of our soldiers. Our soldiers follow the orders they're given and these type of orders aren't given on the whim of a couple kooky generals.
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kick I totally agree.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. A kick from us late guys in Hawaii
:kick:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. Remember Rumskull blamed the victims, then digital technology
This was a few young soldiers. This is policy.

:kick:
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Sven77 Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. this is psy-ops
this is a way for the military desensitize the public to torture, we have to be more evil than evil to win this war on terror. bushes national address said they closed down sadams rape and torture rooms, well its just under new management. how many tv and movies depict cops and agents beating a confession out of a suspect ? all this stuff will eventually come back to the homeland. and didnt gonzalez write the torture memo, now hes the attorney general ?
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. I wish one of those TV shows
Would show the conviction overturned on appeal because the confession was obtained under "duress"....and point out how many thousands of tax dollars are wasted do to illegally obtained confessions.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. In "The Nation"
Torture and Accountability

Long, but a very compelling read. An exerpt:

Consider the coverage of Gonzales's January 2002 memo to President Bush. The media gave substantial play to his recommendation that the United States opt out of the Geneva Conventions. Most reporters focused on his first reason for doing so--that certain provisions of the Conventions were "quaint" and inapplicable to the "new" paradigm of twenty-first-century terrorism. But the press did not pay nearly as much attention to Gonzales's second reason--that opting out would reduce the possibility of War Crimes Act prosecutions. As a result, the American people remained largely in the dark about the War Crimes Act. They generally did not know that the act made it a federal crime to engage in inhuman treatment of detainees, or that the act applied to Iraq. They did not know that by recommending that America opt out of Geneva, the White House counsel--and the President, apparently, through his approval--was trying to create a legal loophole that would permit US government personnel to engage in possible criminal behavior with impunity. It was entirely predictable, under these circumstances, that there would be no public outcry about violations of the War Crimes Act or a broad demand for accountability of higher-ups under it.



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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Wow
Thanks for the info. I will have to read up on this War Crimes Act.
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:50 AM
Response to Original message
6. Yeah... and just change "emabarrassing" to "shameful" or "disgraceful"
and then I am in complete agreement. :kick:
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. Great Thanks! Have You Checked Out Our New Anti-Abuse Org?
It is work from a bunch of DUersthat just got organized and going on the issue. Getting well prepared for the release.

www.endtheabuses.org

Let me know if you'd be intersted in helping out!
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Greeby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. ...............
Seymour Hersh said he's seen this material, and he bluntly told Amy Goodman on Democracy Now "You haven't begun to see evil."

:scared:
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kohodog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
10. Any news on the release date?
June 30 was the first date and I thought only the videos had an extension.
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QuettaKid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Last I heard it was July 22nd.... KICK!!
:kick:
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
12. Torture and Accountability, The War Crimes Act of 1996
http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20050718&s=ho...

Torture and Accountability
by ELIZABETH HOLTZMAN



<snip>
Nonetheless, higher-ups can be held to account. Difficult as it may be to achieve, our institutions of government can be pressured to do the right thing. If the public and the media insist on thorough investigations and appropriate punishments for those implicated--all the way up the chain of command--they can prevail.

<snip>
The War Crimes Act of 1996

No less a figure than Alberto Gonzales, then-White House counsel to George W. Bush and now US Attorney General, expressed deep concern about possible prosecutions under the War Crimes Act of 1996 for American mistreatment of Afghanistan war detainees.

This relatively obscure statute makes it a federal crime to violate certain provisions of the Geneva Conventions. The Act punishes any US national, military or civilian, who commits a "grave breach" of the Geneva Conventions. A grave breach, as defined by the Geneva Conventions, includes the deliberate "killing, torture or inhuman treatment" of detainees. Violations of the War Crimes Act that result in death carry the death penalty.

In a memo to President Bush, dated January 25, 2002, Gonzales urged that the United States opt out of the Geneva Conventions for the Afghanistan war--despite Secretary of State Colin Powell's objections. One of the two reasons he gave the President was that opting out "substantially reduces the likelihood of prosecution under the War Crimes Act."

Then-Attorney General Ashcroft sent a memo to President Bush making a similar argument. Opting out of the Geneva Conventions, Ashcroft argued, would give the "highest assurance" that there would be no prosecutions under the War Crimes Act of "military officers, intelligence officials, or law enforcement officials" for their misconduct during interrogations or detention.

Plainly, both Gonzales and Ashcroft were so concerned about preventing War Crimes Act prosecutions that they were willing to assume the risks--including the likelihood of severe international criticism as well as the exposure of our own captured troops to mistreatment--of opting out of Geneva.
..more..
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
14. The administration established a policy that violates laws relating to,...
,...war crimes.

Stunning how many crimes this administration has committed and is prepared to commit. They must HATE our country and her people given their utter disregard of the rule of law.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. squarely on administration and not the soliers we will see in those
pictures. i couldnt agree more. epole will be angry at the soldier. ultimately the soldier is responsible for his action. the administration created this. they tore soldiers down, to create them how they saw fit. they created this aspect of the soldier and are responsible for it.

the true anger should be on administration and higher up commanders. they did take care of the soldier
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. Some good info here
Links To "Government Documents On Torture" From The ACLU. Photos Due Fri.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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