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Tommymac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:34 PM
Original message
Dean: Difference between a Pro-Life Dem and a Pro-Life Repub...
I saw Howard Dean Speak in Pittsburgh tonite...one of his best statements was (paraphrase - not exact quote) - "The difference between a 'Pro-Life' Democrat and a 'Pro-Life' Republican is that the Democrat cares about the child AFTER it comes out of the womb." He was speaking about Bob Casey, Jr. who will be opposing Stinktorum here in PA for the US Senate in 2006, and how he and the party was supporting him.

Very good speech - he spoke about how NO ONE is for abortion, but we have let the Repubs frame the message. He said the fact that there are more abortions per capita under Bush's policies than under Clinton's tells the real story.

He also told a very good story about a conservative Christian woman who supported him for President last year. He asked her why she was supporting him, a candidate whose social liberal stance on abortion, gay rights etc was 180 degrees from her beliefs. She said she was supporting him because of his STRENGTH OF CONVICTION. She knew that he would make the tough decisions based on real conviction and sincere belief, not political expediency.

IMHO a lesson some Dems still need to learn.....

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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nominated. Good for him!
:-)
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Tommymac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Howard was so intelligent it was refreshing...
to hear words of reason, passion and conviction.

I had not heard him in person before....I wish I had.
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
20. I haven't seen him yet.
I hope I get the chance to.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. I hate labels
I firmly believe abortion is between a women and a doctor at the same time I agree with Howard Dean. Label me pro neutreal or pro choice. Or better yet dont label me at all.
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Tommymac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. That was the meaning of his speech.
We let the repubs label us and control the discussion. Dean was against all labels - he said almost the exact same thing you did in your post.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yeah I figured as much
It's amazing at how lazy some people have gotten in there thinking that they only see things in black or white. Abortion exists for a reason. I hate to see a woman crippled or paralyzed because some whack job with a messiah complex and control issues felt it was against his moral controll. excellent post tommy mac.
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Tommymac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thanks! But Howard is the real inspiration...
Wish I had listened to him closer in the primaries...but the silver lining is he is a perfect fit for the job he has now.

He really got the idea through that everyone is against abortion - that it is not a good thing, but there are times when a woman has to choose....and it is ultimately up to her to choose...

Funny, by supposedly making abortions easier, (Clinton), there were less of them. Couldn't be because we supported so called 'abortion' clinics that offered education and factual counseling about alternative choices.

By supposedly making abortions harder, (Bush), cutting funding to said educational and counseling programs has actually increased the practice. Kinda ironic....
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Is It Fascism Yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. What's her doctor got to do with it? It doesn't affect his life!
Abortion is between a woman and herself.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
7. Pennsylvanians, you have a "CHOICE" in the primary other than Bob Casey.
For Pennsylvanians, there is a choice other than Bob Casey, which Washington Democrats leaders are wrongly ignoring. Let the Pennsylvanians decide who their candidate is, NOT Washington.

His name is Chuck Pennachio, and he is a card-carrying, true blue Democrat. Not someone who dresses up like one.

Chuck Pennachio is staunchly pro-choice and not just 'slightly' so.

In contrast Bob Casey and his father both are staunchly anti-abortion. He also has been a supporter of the Iraq invasion.

His father is the one who brought the case Bob Casey versus Planned Parenthood. Casey appears to be as much of a Democrat as Zell Miller.

It's a primary. Know and learn about your candidates and your choice, because you do have a choice. Vote for Chuck Pennachio in the primary and make him your senator. He's not Republican lite, if you could even call Casey that 'lite'.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. crapoa!!!!!!!!!
Casey appears to be as much of a Democrat as Zell Miller........
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Rodeo, I wish it weren't so. Can you provide information otherwise?
Show me where he has truly supported and promoted Democratic stances.

His record is far from being what is considered Democratic.


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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. He isn't but
his stance on a woman's right to choose bothers me immensely!!

/sigh

I hate Santorum, I want him out!


But if Casey were ever to vote against a Woman's rights and I voted for him. I could never forgive myself! If he promised.. it was just his belief and he wouldn't impose his belief upon my body. I'd be more comfortable with Casey.
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Pennachio is missing out
on campaigning in Western PA..

Philly your gonna have to carry it if you want Pennachio. I like him I'll vote for him if he wins the nom but Casey is stronger here in PA.

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PittLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Chuck will be at a house party in Pittsburgh Sunday...
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 02:18 AM by PittLib
please feel free to attend. It might be a bit of a drive (if I remember correctly... you are from my hometown (?)), but well worth it.

http://www.chuck2006.com/events.asp
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PittLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Thanks shance for giving me a rest on this argument ...
Well said. I'm not sure where you are but there is a Pennacchio house party in Pittsburgh on Sunday. I also attended the Dean event and agreed with everything he said ... perhaps he didn't realize how contradictory he was being when he tried to justify the Casey endorsement. We cannot give in on this (and remember ... it is not just about abortion but gay rights, SCR, separation of church and state, death penalty ...etc). Dean also said something about us not being able to win by being "lite". IMHO Casey is 50% right and 50% a damn good Democrat. He is good for labor, and those deemed worthy in the eyes of the church as I believe he is a good and decent Catholic ... but we know that that has built in qualifiers. This is not to be taken lightly, particularly with the new Supreme Court nominee. We already stand to lose a lot ... and if Casey is elected, it will appear as if Pennsylvanians condone the possible overturn of Roe v Wade. This is not to say that he will actively pursue it, I cannot say one way or the other ...because I can't figure out where he stands but ...

FYI: "Almost two-thirds of Pennsylvanians polled believe President Bush should not nominate for the U.S. Supreme Court someone who would overturn the Roe vs. Wade decision."

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-quinnipiac0713,0,51 ...

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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. You bet PL** Im on the west coast (California), but this race
has concerned many Dems outside of Pennsylvania for many reasons, the most prominent reason being Democratic leaders promoting a pro-life Republicanized candidate, when there is a terrific Democratic candidate in the race.

Let the Pennsylvanians like you* decide who you all want to be your candidate. If they want Casey, so be it. (I doubt it*)

I believe it's the job of all Democratic leaders to remain neutral and fair.

Keep up the great work and please keep us posted!!
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. Howie is channelling Walter Mondale on this one.....
When he ran for President, that was his line.

And it's a good one, and I'm glad Dean is using it...
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
15. A spine? Priceless!
Howard's spine must be made out of titanium!

You rock, Howard!!

Bake
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. Hardly new concepts but they need to be repeated.
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 06:21 AM by DemBones DemBones
Funny, though, that Dean is applauded for being strong in his convictions when he supported the Iraq war, supported NAFTA, etc., while Bob Casey is being attacked in this same thread for being strong in his pro-life convictions. If all issues are examined, Casey may be more of a true-blue liberal Democrat than Dean is.

Some of us Dems are pro-life out of strong personal conviction but we also support the right of anyone to use contraception and most definitely support helping those who have already been born who need help, and that includes the poor and disabled of all ages, the elderly. That does distinguish us from many pro-life Republicans. Pro-life Dems tend to be anti-death penalty (Life Is Life), anti-corporatism/globalism/neo-feudalism, pro-labor, pro-environment -- i.e., progressive. And we see being pro-life as a progressive stance against killing.

Pro-life Dems don't generally want Roe overturned, either. Dems don't want to see women getting back-alley abortions. I don't think there would be the carnage that some predict if Roe is overturned but I still don't favor it. I'd like to see abortion ended tomorrow but I don't see how changing the law will help. It's peoples' hearts that need to be changed. Someday, people are going to wake up and turn against all forms of killing, including the killing of children in the womb.
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Goldeneye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
18. Didn't Hillary get kicked around for saying the same thing?
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Justice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
19. I completely agree - this is what I say - Republicans are Pro Birth
they are not pro life. Their job is done when child is born.
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