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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:18 PM
Original message
This is a mistake.
This approach to Roberts is a mistake, for the record.

You've heard my say.

If the Democrats take the approach that so much of DU is advocating, it will be the biggest mistake they've made since capitulating on the IWR.

Honestly- this "don't fight the nominee" stuff came out of nowhere, for me. I had no idea that people felt so.....fill in the blank. I already have. Frankly, it's fucking ridiculous. We know his positions. We know we DO have the filibuster, and we can challenge him. There's no need for defeatism.

That's the end of what I have to say on this. I wash my hands of this.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. I had an idea when we turned our backs on our gay and lesbian
Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 11:27 PM by MrsGrumpy
neighbors...that we would soon turn our backs on ourselves, or in some cases, our women. :(
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Just because some are doing this, doesn't mean the rest of us
have to just give in to it.

Let them believe what they want to and ignore them. We can still fight.

But it is insulting to women, glbt community and anyone that fought hard for our civil rights and women's rights.

Piss on them. :grr:
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I'm with you. I'm still fighting.
:toast: It just angers me so.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. Hear, Hear!!!
I couldn't agree more.
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renaissanceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. So many goddamn sellouts on here...
It's pathetic. PEOPLE, THIS NOMINEE WILL AFFECT OUR LIVES THE NEXT THIRTY YEARS. DO YOU HEAR ME?!


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.21326737
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. anyone calling yawl names. anyone that feels there isnt a fight here
calling you coward, sellout, afraid,.....anyone calling you names that dont agree with you

but yawl.....are really pissing me off
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Not just "sellouts" but "goddamn sellouts."
PATHETIC goddamn sellouts, shouting and ripping away.

This cannot be a good and kind thing to do, can it?

Is this a "we have met the enemy and he is us" sort of thing?

God I hope not!

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swag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Excellent handwashing.
Now don't forget to trim your nails.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. My advice is to wait and see.
There's no sense getting mad when the first moves are yet to be made. When things start to actually happen, and if they are not to your liking, that's the time to get mad. Fuming at mere possibilities will only make you mad. I learned that a long time ago.
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Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. I agree with you 100%!
I can't believe how many people are advocating we just sit back and watch the highest court in the land be hijacked for decades to come, for some short-term political gain. Ya know what? 30 years from now my kids won't even know who the hell Karl Rove was, but they will be feeling the consequences of a Justice Roberts.
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Another poster is referring everyone to this website to get the ball
rolling on Roberts. www.aral.org Go to it, sign up and send it to everyone you know.
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Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #20
30. NARAL is a great resource.
I am definitely donating to them.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. Some of us know it would be the end of the Republican party
if Roe v. Wade is overturned. They wouldn't DARE do it.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. while i may agree, Why risk it?
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Because I want to see the Republican party destroyed
that's why.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. agreed, 100 percent....
Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 11:23 PM by mike_c
Every day spent fighing Roberts makes the RW look more extremist. Frankly, I would advocate fighting ANY Bush nominee, because doing so highlights the ideological divide between the neocon fundies and the rest of America, including the mainstream republican party.

on edit-- quite aside from his Roe v Wade statements, Roberts is a disaster for the environmental movement.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. This is what we were saving the filibuster for
Right? Or did I dream all of that?

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evlbstrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm in total agreement.
You don't roll over on a LIFETIME SC APPOINTMENT for short term gain.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
9. absolutely, i wrote a post on this last night too, no one responded :P
:shrug:
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
10.  saying not to fight is the same as saying "shut up!"
Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 11:27 PM by Solly Mack
Don't use your voice!
Don't rock the boat!

You fight because it's the right thing to do...

People whose definition of compromise includes selling out the rights of others might want to join the GOP.


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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
34. It's also saying
let's roll over and let them kick us again. That's the modus operandi of the DLC. :puke:
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WeirdOne Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. We fight for an actual moderate
Even if such a person is considered a raving liberal activist in today's screwed up world
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Welcome to DU!
That's the spirit!

:bounce: :beer: :hi: :headbang: :yourock: :woohoo: :applause: :patriot:
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WeirdOne Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Thanks for the welcome I needed it
All these quitters are bringing me down. Where the hell do we liberals go to fight the neo-con monsters effectively?
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Usually here, this is just a bad night, the worst i have seen it since we
lost the election :shrug:

I am sure we will get back on track tonight or tomorrow. This thing just confused us a little. Everyone was so concerned about the MEDIA not focusing on the Rove story because they would focus on the SCOTUS story. However, many apparently think that we can't fight it at all if we want to keep it out of the spotlight. I disagree and I think people will think better of it tomorrow.

Just keep coming :D, I have learned an AMAZING number of things just the last two weeks.
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WeirdOne Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Ok I will take your word for it
But isn't the Activist Corps set up for this very event? How could this nominee blindside everyone? I figured Bush would try and sneak in a far right-winger who seemed moderate on the surface.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Long story
He was going to nominate Gonzalas, however, that was before the Treasongate scandal hit the spotlight. Also, he had a really bad reaction from his base.

Polls have shown that only 25-42% of people trust Bush right now depending on how the question is framed. That means that he is down to his base. If he chose Gonzalas, he would alienate his base while gaining no more support from the left. It was a lose lose situation for him.

When Treasongate hit the mainstream, he had to pick someone quick in order to try to take it out of the spotlight. He chose someone he knew his base would love to keep that 25-42% assured. However, this was rather fast for the DU since we knew he wanted Gonzalas a while ago. I think we are just reacting because we are so angry and want to bring down the admin so bad that we are trying very hard not to trip ourselves up.
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. As a relative newbie myself
I appreciate that clarification.

Always helps to have the previous situations explained to newcomers, especially when they arrive at such tense moments and wish to participate but worry about offending or putting a foot in between their teeth.

I have to admit I'm a little curious, WeirdO (oops, maybe not so good a shortening of your handle there, huh? ;)), how you seem to know so much about the workings here at DU even though you have only a few posts here so far -- and most of those on this one thread?? :D I'm not challenging you, just wondering. I sure haven't had time yet to explore so many things here at the DU site. Like the Action Corps, was it? I'll have to check that out.

So much to learn, so many people to get to know, and so little time!

Well, we can multi-task, yes I believe we can. I haven't seen many signs of one trick ponies here, that's for sure! I'll just have to kick it up another notch and read more, educate myself. Self-taught, after all, does not necessarily mean poorly taught.

And grassroots does not necessarily mean unsophisticated, either! Hooah, gang, let's pull together again -- I saw a lot of that in my first few days here and want to see more of it again. Tense times or not, we still have to hold the vehicle together or we'll all be standing by the side of the road looking at our poor broken ride spewing steam. Or oozing oil from the crankcase.

While the well-maintained machine of the neocons rolls merrily down the highway......

Argh!! :argh: Now THAT's an unsettling thought! :scared:

But no, I won't be shaken by that notion, either. To continue the gearhead analogy, the wheels are coming off the neocon hummer, and it's not bloody likely that its passengers -- or even its driver, whoever that may ultimately be -- know how to twist a wrench fast enough to prevent a major breakdown! Hah!

:bounce: :thumbsup: :dem: :thumbsup: :grouphug: :pals: :blush:
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. It's not "don't fight" it's "don't forget"
about Rove and DSM that is.

Both/and.

Multitask.

Eyes on the prize... prizes, actually.
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. Yes! That's the ticket!
Each do what conscience dictates, and what personal ability permits. All work together toward the same end.

Somehow I have to smile (not smirk, smile) when I think of what life would be like for a Justice Roberts after this administration is evicted from the WH for treasonous acts.....

Just don't DIVIDE our efforts and we'll be fine.

I have a feeling the plotters at the top who can see the freight train coming their way with no brakes squealing actually chose an extremely objectionable individual for the SC and put him out there early, at this crucial time. Not only to distract and divide, but to literally explode the efforts of the Democratic Party to mount a persistent and successful assault at the key point of weakness. Flank 'em, yes. But make sure the point is still very strongly manned and never neglected.

SP Fitzgerald doesn't operate in a vacuum. The mood of the country is very important right now; and with a lot of issues -- each of them quite significant and near and dear to the hearts of certain ones of us -- out there tempting us to divide our forces, it would be easy to let ourselves fall victim to working at cross-purposes!


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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
21. Roveberts is only one front.
I say we take the Repukes down some notches on both issues.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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La Coliniere Donating Member (581 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
25. His feet should be held to the fire.
He's already expressed some predilection for overturning Roe vs. Wade, he sided with the badministration, Cheney and their secret energy "policy", and he enabled the process of military tribunals to continue. This guy could be on the bench for 30+ years. FIGHT I SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT"S AT STAKE!
However, the heat must continue to be applied in regards to Treasongate.
Bulldogging Dems, fighting 2 wars at once. Wouldn't that be delightful for a change?
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Bryan Buchan Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
27. I would like to finally see some
backbone come out of this nomination. This nomination is too important not to question, even if you agree with the nomination...given his age he may be serving this appointment for quite some time. We are vaildated to question, and even in Bush's declaration tonight he challenged this reality. (Like he wouldn't)

I hope those Senators who have been given the opportunity to speak for the people have the courage to ask the right questions and the aptitude to know what to REALLY ask. This nomination process seems awlfully like show than our right to question. If our Dems do not show backbone it may and should effect the 06 election.

The spin on this process may slow the earth's rotation aye?

-B
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. "The spin on this process may slow the earth's rotation aye?"
AYE!

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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
35. And if you win the filibuster or even defeat him?
Ya think Smirk will next name who?....Mario Cuomo?

Gimme a fucking break.

We lost the supreme court in November of 2004.

Roe v Wade is history.....and it needs to come back to haunt the fucking republican party.

Maybe in 10 years we can get some semblance of sanity back. Until then, let them reap what they sow
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. We fight until he compromises.
There's no good reason not to.

And there IS very, very good reason TO fight.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
36. NOW, NARAL, Planned Paranthood are ACTIVELY Lobbying Vs. Roberts
Nobody is gonna roll over for this guy, no matter what the Freeper moles would have you believe.

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