Okay, wrapping my body in tin foil now, but

[lala_rawraw]

Was Giuliani in London for terror ’exercises’?
(Hey kids. Just your friendly neighborhood Libertythink Director Emeritus checking in here. This item was posted this morning to www.total911.info and www.total411.info. And the sites promptly went down and have stayed down. Investigation is pending. Special thanks to TBF for leaving me the key to the back door.)

Rudolph Giuliani was in World Trade Center 7 on 9/11 for, as he testified before the 9/11 Commission, a FEMA terror ’exercise.’ He went on the support the official story, earned his bones and was named Knight of the British Empire by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.

So, what was he doing in London on 7-7?

Greg Nixon of 11InsideJobbers decided to find out. From a Jul 11, 2005 posting: I spoke with Giuliani’s press secretary to pose the following questions:


http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6990

[KitchenWitch]

1. Awfully ironic!

Difficult to believe random happenstance on this one.

[H5N1]

2. I agree.

[Bucky]

181. Extremely easy to believe random happenstance here, actually

Giuliani's a globe hoppin' corporate security pimp. Statistically there were bound to be hundreds of people who were in both NY and London on the days of their respective terror attacks. And Giuliani had a big reason to be in England at that time anyway. With the G8 meeting going on, there would be security professionals from all around the world there, meeting one another, cutting deals, robbing baby cradles, splurging tax dollars on pointless security devices and information that Giuliani and his coworkers are hot to sell.

Coincidence? Not at all. Proof of conspiracy? Not at all.

[BeHereNow]

3. JUST your body?

Honey, I'm covering my house, my car
and my cats and dogs!
It's getting mighty strange out there.
BHN

[The Witch]

4. I really really really don't want to believe mihop/lihop.

But this makes it hard. And why are the sites down? eep.

[KarenS]

5. ohhhhh yes,,,,, I think this is so strange, so weird,,,,,

AND I am not a big believer in coincidences,,,,,

[LisaM]

6. It's so peculiar

I agree. It's just plain odd.

[helderheid]

7. check this thread for a lot more weird stuff

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4098971

[brainshrub]

8. I don't know if this is true or not.

Maybe you can verify this:

I read somewhere that the London authorities were "rehearsing" for a multiple-bomb attack that day.

I don't know if this is true or if it's from a credible source. (Please don't post "proof" from sites like Debka, prisonplanet or conspiracydigest.)

[helderheid]

9. 2 credible sources - BBC and ITV

Video on bombing drill:

http://www.terrorize.dk/misc/london/london.terror.games.wmv


Same interview was given on BBC 5 radio. To hear the original BBC 5 radio
piece go here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/programmes/drive.shtml

Then click on Thursday at "Listen again to Drive:"

When the replay starts skip ahead one hour (click the 15 mins jump 4 times).
The interview with Power starts a few minutes after that.

[mrfrapp]

16. BBC link

Somebody should really capture the entire "Drive" programme because it's going to disappear in a few hours.

[helderheid]

19. I captured part of it - I'll go capture all of it - good idea

[helderheid]

24. capturing all 4 hours

I imagine it will also include the original time frame that was later changed:


8:50
8:56
9:17
and 9:47

suddenly changed to 3 within seconds at 8:50 and the bus at 9:47

I'll look for the links

[helderheid]

30. old vs new timeline

Blast timeline
0851 Seven people die in a blast on a train 100 yards from Liverpool Street station
0856 21 people die in a blast on a train between Russell Square and King's Cross stations
0917 Five people die in blast on a train at Edgware Road station
0947 An unknown number die in a blast on a bus at Tavistock Place.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659331.stm

http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page7903.asp

I will now try to give the House as much information as I can. Some of it is already well-known. There were four explosions. Three took place on underground trains - one between Aldgate East and Liverpool Street; one between Russell Square and Kings Cross; one in a train at Edgware Road station. All of these took place within 50 seconds of each other at 8.50 a.m.

The other explosion was on the No.30 bus at Upper Woburn Place at 9.47 a.m.

The timing of the Tube explosions was designed to be at the peak of the rush hour and thus to cause maximum death and injury.

[helderheid]

173. FYI - I've captured all 4 hours and will keep it in case we need it

[FreedomAngel82]

23. What else is weird

is Tony Blair said he didn't want any probing in the investigation. :shrug: Why?? Why would he say that?

[jsamuel]

10. Yes it is

Peter Power said it on the CBC... getting link...

[helderheid]

11. whoops forgot about CBC as well

[tosca_veritas]

15. links

it was a company with 1000 employees

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/cover070905a.htm

VIDEO of BBC 5 broadcast
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/july2005/110705bombingexercises.htm

transcript:

Solomon: "We've heard something quite extraordinary - could be a coincidence or not - that your firm, on the very day that the bombs went off in London, were running an exercise simulating three bombs going off, in the very same tube stations that they went off. How did this happen? Coincidence, or were you acting on information that you knew?

Power: I don't think you could say that we had some special insight into the terrorist network, otherwise I would be under arrest myself. The truth of it is..

Solomon: But it is a coincidence..

Power: It's a coincidence, and it's a spooky coincidence. Our scenario was very similar - it wasn't totally identical, but it was based on bombs going off, to the time, the locations, all this sort of stuff. But it wasn't an accident, in the sense that London has a history of bombs, and the reason why our emergency services did so well, and prepared probably better than any other city in the world, sadly they have to be. So it wasn't exactly rocket science or totally out of the pale to come up with that scenario unusual though it be to stop the exercise and go into real time, and it worked very well, although there was a few seconds when the audience didn't realize whether it was real or not.


also reported on CBC news Sunday night
http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/#night


hope this helps

[Gay Green]

22. "Power: It's a coincidence, and it's a spooky coincidence"

Sounds to me that someone in the BFEE got wind of the drills and passed the info on to the patsies (oops I mean the terra-ists).

[BeHereNow]

34. I just found this one by Power too-

We are getting closer, because this is a
web site that has a section about a training event
that was hosted by "Survive" who ever the hell they are,
but the INTERESTING element is that the training was
provided by a company owned separately by
one of the Visor Execs- I posted his bio below.
Check out who hires them...
BHN:scared:
http://www.survive.com/news/viewnews.cfm?newsid=976
(Sorry, forgot to paste the link.)

[helderheid]

36. where's the link?

[BeHereNow]

38. Forgot to paste it-sorry, it's there now. n/t

BHN

[helderheid]

43. thanks!

[doublethink]

12. Take a visit to the Sept 11 forum here on DU ... some 7/7 posts ....

of interest moved there. Link here ... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125 Peace. :)

[helderheid]

14. yes - good stuff there

and as we all know, 7/7 happened on 9/11 :eyes:

[helderheid]

13. if you have an hour to spare

http://www.kpfa.org/cgi-bin/gen-mpegurl.m3u?server=209.81.10.18&port=80&file=dummy.m3u&mount=/data/20050713-Wed1400.mp3

[doublethink]

20. Hey I love Guns and Butter !!

thank's for the link. Will check it out later. Peace. :)

[BeHereNow]

17. Okay, tell me is wrong with THIS sentence from Visor site:

"In addition, UK Government committees such as Greenbury, Hampel and, most recently, have made all Risk Management issues a key feature of corporate stewardship at the highest level."
http://www.visorconsultants.com/businesscontinuity.html

Hint: The question remians WHO Visor was comissioned by .
Read the sentence and tell me what's wrong with it...

BHN

[BeHereNow]

25. Interesting Bio details of Visor Team member...

I believe the mystery identity of the company in question
may be in examing the network of the directors?
Anyone up for doing some research?
I'm starting with this guy...
BHN
http://www.visorconsultants.com/teamvisor_chris-needham-bennett.html
"Examples of recent projects undertaken by Chris include the restructuring of the director level crisis management team for a merchant bank, design of contingency plans and security training packages for use by multinational companies' contracted training staff operating in sub Saharan Africa and the former Soviet Union, and on site contingency planning for an Anglo/American company operating in the former Zaire. The revised plans were tested successfully when some members of staff who were threatened by the local situation had to be evacuated speedily."

[BeHereNow]

27. It gets stranger still...

Airlines?
BHN

http://www.survive.com/Training/viewevent.cfm?eventsID=355
"The presenter

Chris Needham-Bennett, MSc, MBCI, FICDDS is a founding partner of Needhams Jarrett and Thomas Ltd, Risk Management Chambers. Chris and the company have worked with several commercial companies ranging from airlines to banks to help design their strategic risk frameworks and practical plans. In addition, the Chambers also work for several central government ministries and departments in the compilation of their resilience plans and consequence management strategies, plans and rehearsals at national level."

[BeHereNow]

31. ANOTHER Peter Power statement:

http://www.survive.com/news/viewnews.cfm?newsid=976
Haven't seen or heard about this link!

"On Thursday 7 July 2005, early in the morning, a small group of people secretly gathered in an office not far from Chancery Lane in the heart of London ready to deal with a planned series of nearby bomb explosions that would kill and injure many. Weeks of research and planning behind the scenes had been completed and all that was now needed were unsuspecting office workers ready to play their part without even knowing it. At exactly the same time and not far away, another group of people were about to do almost exactly the same thing, only the outcome of their actions that morning were to have much more tragic and profound consequences.

By bizarre coincidence it was my job that day to help plan and deliver a realistic training exercise to a team of new Crisis Managers working for a well known company in the legal and business information sector with 1,000 staff in London. They had gathered that morning behind closed doors expecting to deal with some sort of realistic but fictional ‘walk through’ exercise scenario to prepare them for the real thing if it ever happened.

But it did happen. Suddenly and without any warning, both events collided and overlapped in some perverse choreography. Suddenly it was 'exercise over' before it had started, and time to move from ‘slow time’ to real ‘quick time’ actions - to set up a command post to confirm, contain, control and communicate, especially as some of their own people had been caught up in the real thing. But what really was the real thing? Could it have been worse? Had we been warned?"

[doublethink]

46. Ummmmmm .....

"and all that was now needed were unsuspecting office workers ready to play their part without even knowing it." -snip- .....

That part disturbs me. Could these 'bombers' unknowingly taken part in this crime too? Who knows, from the initial reports of their profiles, one just had an 8 month old baby, another was supposedly a 'proud British Kid, educated, sports future of some type' .... just hunches here. Questions, so many questions in the big question of life. Shit. Peace. :)

[Goldeneye]

83. I figured he was refering to londoners who were

going about their lives like normal. They didn't know what was going on, but they were an integral part of the excercise. Kind of a funny way for him to say it, but I think that's what he meant.

[doublethink]

87. I know, but it was still 'ominous' in the way he stated that.

And poetically here we all are just going along with our own lives oblivious to all that is happening around us. Especially the Republicans. Haaa. Peace. :)

[Cassandra]

189. I just had a question on that very thing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4121840

Or could they have been recruited and decided to make it real (less likely but possible)?

[helderheid]

190. I had wondered this too

:tinfoilhat: say the company that hired Visor consultants hire these guys to be a part of a drill but not to tell anyone as it is top secret? Would explain why the families were so baffled since none of them were considered extremists and the only part of the "profile" they matched was that they were muslim of Arab decent. :tinfoilhat:

[Emit]

44. Pretty far-reaching company--more clients

<<snip>>
Visor are a totally independent company formed in 1995 and based at Piccadilly in the centre of London. They are true market leaders in Crisis Management, Coaching, Testing, Exercising, running Workshops as well as Business Continuity support and advice. They have so far won three BC awards and their work is regularly quoted by many others. The Managing Director, Peter Power, is the most requested UK speaker / chairman / workshop facilitator and Fellow of several organisations. He is also a special advisor to organisations such as the Canadian Centre for Emergency preparedness. Clients range from 7th largest company in the USA to a front line UK Government Department in London as well as leading financial, oil & gas, retail and manufacturing organisations in UK and elsewhere. Directors are also authors of two UK Government guide books on ‘Dealing with Disaster’ and ‘Preventing Chaos in a Crisis’. All Directors and consultants have many years of real-time / direct crisis experience and most are directly associated with universities as Fellows / lecturers.

Overseas Activities

Experienced conference facilitators and presenters in the UK, Europe, USA and Asia. Project leaders for several multi-national companies operating across national and cultural boundaries. Key members are capable of immediate worldwide deployment. Experienced crisis team leaders able to create Common Language / Crisis Sensors for pan-global organisations and explain corrective actions in an easy to understand way.
<<snip>>
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:bD2jRzbGqGUJ:www.survive.com/vendors/displayorganisation.cfm%3FownerID%3D280+Visor+Consultants&hl=en

[QuettaKid]

28. uhm, is it the part right after....

"most recently".....where the 3rd name just drops off into the memoryhole...?

[BeHereNow]

32. HELLO?

You noticed that bad edit too eh?
Oh my...
BHN

[fooj]

73. Yep. Right down the black hole...

Geez...:smoke:

[doublethink]

29. Uhhhhhhh .....

"In addition, UK Government committees such as Greenbury, Hampel and (Insert name here), most recently, have made all Risk Management issues a key feature of corporate stewardship at the highest level." -snip-

.... seems a certain committee has been omitted, at least the way I read it? Wonder if it read like that before 7/7? If true ... then it was the 'most recent' committee ... which was deleted. :shrug: Is this what you were referring too? Peace. :)

[BeHereNow]

33. Close enough- I read it as

Greenbury, Hampel and most recently___________,
so did another DUer-
It appears that the most recently company has
been disappeared...rather quickly I'd say because
it is a REALLY sloppy edit.
Please pass the Reynolds Wrap.
BHN

[QuettaKid]

35. isin't there an internet archive?

that shows pages as they were? not as they are now....

[BeHereNow]

40. Well if there is...

Does anyone know how to find such a thing?
Because CLEARLY a company has been hastily
removed from the list.
BHN

[Minstrel Boy]

42. Found it!

In addition, UK Government committees such as Greenbury, Hampel and, most recently, Turnbull, have made all Risk Management issues a key feature of corporate stewardship at the highest level

Used this http://www.waybackmachine.org/ on the page.

Here's the weird thing: the last cache of Turnbull is Aug 15, 2001. The next cache, Oct 25, 2001, it's gone. What came between Aug 15 and Oct 25, 2001?

[doublethink]

49. Touchdown !!!!!!

cudos Minstrel Boy .... now to find out all there is to know on Turnbull. :) Shit. :)

[Minstrel Boy]

55. Turnbull concerns corporate governance

http://www.icaew.co.uk/index.cfm?AUB=TB2I_78921,MNXI_78921 (also mentions the other committees mentioned on the Visor page)

"Part of the 1998 and 2003 Combined Codes requires companies to provide a statement in their annual report on how they have applied the Code Principle and Code Provisions relating to internal control. Guidance for companies on how this should be approached was needed. This led to the establishment of the Turnbull Committee in 1998 by the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England & Wales (ICAEW) which then resulted in the Turnbull Guidance, Internal Control: Guidance for Directors on the Combined Code published in September 1999. The Guidance is a Securities & Exchange Commission (SEC) approved framework for management to show that they have adequate internal control structures and financial reporting procedures in place in order to comply with section 404 of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act."

[helderheid]

56. ...

:scared:

[BeHereNow]

65. Holy fuck -LOOK AT THIS!!!

Just found this!
Another company run by the mysterious Mr. Chris Needham Bennett
of Visor:

Holy Shite!

WORK IN PROGRESS????
Ê
"Case Studies :

Prosecution Agency
In this case a strategy was developed for Business Continuity Planning and rolled out across all the major business areas within the service.

Full training was provided for all appropriate staff and a detailed rehearsal involving the organisation and the emergency services, with simulated Cabinet Office participation, was undertaken at a recovery site in central London. (Work in progress.) "
Ê
THEY LIST CASE STUDIES, BUT DON'T NAME NAMES...
HOWEVER, LONDON? WORK IN PROGRESS?
CONNECTION TO VISOR THROUGH PETER POWER?

I'D SAY WE ARE GETTING CLOSER

SOMEONE NEEDS OT GO RESEARCH CONNECTIONS
BETWEEN LOCKHEED AND TURNBULL.

I ALSO FOUND A LINK TO SOMETHING CALLED
THE EDEN PROJECT THAT CHRIS NEEDHAM-BENNETT'S
OTHER SECURITY COMPANY WAS PART OF....

BHN

[Just Me]

74. I wonder if there's any connections with Giuliani's security firm.

I wouldn't be at all surprised that covert shit is being carried out via private corporations and those corporations MAY have been infiltrated somewhere along the way,...or not. After all, corporations have freedoms beyond governments, beyond people.

[nashville_brook]

182. that obviously happens with regard to extrordinary rendition

and all sorts of commando-type stuff. long history of it in central and south america. part of the old Dulles-CIA.

[BeHereNow]

88. "Cabinet participation" Andrew Turnbull AND CLARE SHORT-REMEMBER DU???

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/whitehall/story/0,9061,1162655,00.html
"Sir Andrew Turnbull, the Cabinet secretary, yesterday took responsibility for the letter threatening Clare Short, the former international secretary, for disclosing that she had seen reports indicating that the security services had spied on the UN general secretary, Kofi Annan."

I found another link with Sir Andrew Turnbull and Visor connection,
but GUESS WHAT?
It's GONE.
Turnbull gone from the Visor site-
Visor and sir Andrew Turnbull page gone-
Needham's company staging a rehearsal attack with
??? company that includes participation with
cabinet members?
All this, not to mention the original point of this thread?
Pretty strange stuff people.

BHN

[helderheid]

89. FRIGHTENING!

[BeHereNow]

95. Yes, just a few too many dots

connecting here-
Peter Power knows a great deal more than
he says.
The Needham 1834 case study is just a
little too close to reality when you add the Turnbull
factor.
Something is "off," that's for sure.
Why have so many web pages been scrubbed?
The timing of the Turnbull scrub from the
Visor site is surely interesting, to put it mildly.
BHN

[Just Me]

98. We're still,...

,...not pulling the threads together. Since corporations are better able to closet stuff, our task is that much more difficult.

Corporations don't deserve the level of privacy and freedom granted to citizens, that's for sure!!!!

[bin.dare]

66. summary of UK Gov committes ...

...
HOW TURNBULL FITS WITH CADBURY, GREENBURY, HAMPEL AND THE COMBINED CODE

1992: Sir Adrian Cadbury publishes his ground-breaking report on corporate governance. Sir Adrian claims that almost all corporate failures can be traced back to a failure in internal controls. His committee's recommendations include the requirement that the role of chairman and chief executive be divided and emphasise the value of non-executive directors.

1995: Publication of the Greenbury committee's report on directors' pay in response to public concern over perceived salary excesses. Sir Richard Greenbury requires improvements in the disclosure of directors' pay and benefits.

1997: Sir Ronnie Hampel reviews the state of the corporate governance playing field. This results in Hampel publishing his own recommendations in order to smooth out some of the rougher edges. His committee's report avoids prescriptive measures, but notably concludes that directors should be made responsible for monitoring non-financial risks and controls, as well as the financial ones.

1998: The Stock Exchange publishes its Combined Code on corporate governance, drawing together all of the recommendations made in the reports by Cadbury, Greenbury and Hampel.

1999: The report of the Turnbull Committee, set up by the English ICA, with the backing of the Stock Exchange, suggests how listed UK companies should apply Hampel's recommendations on internal control.

The committee confirms that company boards should consider all relevant risks, not just financial risks, as had been the case prior to Hampel.

http://www.accountancyage.com/news/85165

[BeHereNow]

104. Good catch Bin.Dare!

Now add the Needham 1834 emergency drill
case study, ("under progress..." uh-huh) involving
participation of cabinet members, Sir Andrew Turnbull's
bitch slapping letter to Clare Short, Gulianno in London
and it all gets REALLY muddy.
The question is still- WHO hired Needham 1834???
And what is their connection to Turnbull and Guilliano.
BHN

[helderheid]

144. so it wasn't a typo - it was removed

[mrfrapp]

45. Turnbull?

The Wayback Machine to the resuce and this is odd. The ommission was made just after September 11th 2001, not as you would think, 7th July 2005.

From August 15th 2001

http://web.archive.org/web/20010815124517/http://www.visorconsultants.com/businesscontinuity.html

and October 25th 2001.

http://web.archive.org/web/20011025022111/http://visorconsultants.com/businesscontinuity.html

[doublethink]

64. Could be a typo after all ?

The Turnbull report is mentioned in the next sentence. After the omission sentence. Unless it's sloppy cover-up. Found some names I'm gonna look into anyway. Omitted after Sept 11 2001 kinda strange too though. Peace. :)

UK Government committees such as Greenbury, Hampel and, most recently, have made all Risk Management issues a key feature of corporate stewardship at the highest level. THE TURNBULL report itself emphasises the requirement for the board to consider all relevant risks, not just narrowly defined financial risks. -snip-

[helderheid]

50. that is super spooky

self delete due to dorkdom

[dogday]

18. Who would of thought that Mr. 9-11 would

be right in the spot of the London Bombings. Thank goodness he was there to help us all since he has been through it. He took every opportunity to tie this to 9-11....

[sattahipdeep]

21. "Never did it occur in anybody's thought process about how to protect

America, did we ever think that the evildoers would fly not one, but four commercial
aircraft into precious U.S. targets . . . never," said Bush.

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/24652.htm

[seemslikeadream]

149. Hey where have you been?

or where have I been?

I have missed you


:hi:

[bloom]

26. That could be a new fashion statement

Used to be sackcloth - now it could be tinfoil.

:hi:

[moodforaday]

61. Tinfoil is

the new black. Seriously.

[bloom]

71. Shows you how much I've been paying attention.

:hi:

[Clark2008]

153. And just like black...

it goes with everything and can be worn year-round, as the main outfit or as an accessory!

[wli]

37. brilliant

These dimwits are finally getting their covers blown.

[paula777]

39. So there was a simulation going on in London's subway the day of

the bombing at the exact location of the bombings, specifically about bombing the subway and on 9/11 there were simulations taking place in NY on what to do if a plane was hijacked and flew into a building. There are two possibilities here - the bombers/hijackers either had inside information and did it purposly on those exact days/times or the people in charge are making or letting this happen.

Why did the British government deny at first that bombs were going off - why were they saying it was a power surge? Was it because they were simulating a bomb going off so they thought it couldn't possibly be REALLY happening?

[The Magistrate]

41. Not In The Subway, Ma'am

It was the sort of simulation exercise that gathers managers together in a room and feeds them telephone calls, so they can practice not saying "Dear God!" and instead practice staying calm and making quick decisions about deployment of emergency response teams.

[Minstrel Boy]

48. Yet of the stations struck, at the time they were struck. Much like

John Fulton's CIA simulation of planes hitting buildings the morning of 9/11.

[The Magistrate]

54. From The Layout Of The System, Sir

It does seem a pretty obvious place to strike. The people assigned to defend will see the same vulberabilities those who seek to strike will, and make their plans and run their drills accordingly. The fact that, say, an in-house team of security people for an internet provider writes up an appreciation of a flaw in routines that some hacker produces a virus to exploit at about that time could hardly be taken to demonstrate collusion by the in-house team; for that, real evidence of contact and exchange of information would be required. Drills of various sorts go on every day, and the mere oddity of a juxtaposition is insufficient to demonstrate anything but the inherent strangeness of this world here below, in my view.

It seems worth noting, too, that the C.I.A. exercise you reference did not involve any of the buildings actually struck. What is somewhat signifigant about it, and a similar drill at some point involving the Pentagon, is that they render obviously false a great deal of official bleating at the time that "no one could have anticipated planes being used like that." Not only had a great many people speculated on just that method of attack, some of them were clearly security officials.

[Minstrel Boy]

57. And your consideration of the day and time?

The synchronicity of drills and attacks on 7/7 and 9/11 - at least six on 9/11; and not just any drills, but drills which mimicked the attacks - is just a "mere oddity of juxtaposition"?

[helderheid]

59. it's not just the drills

it's ALL of it. How many weird ass coincidences do we need here?

[fooj]

75. You can only have SO MANY coinki-dinki's...

before they are no longer CONSIDERED coincidences! Right?

Then, IMO...these coinki-dinks could be viewed as a pattern, yes?

peace.

[The Magistrate]

126. Not Unless, Sir

There actually is a pattern. Finding patterns where none exist is an occupational hazard of having a human mind, for that implement is shaped to extract patterns from what impinges on its awareness, and in this pre-disposition, is frequently observed to impose them where no such actually exists. The history of human thought is littered with examples as a beach with sand.

[helderheid]

128. boggling

[The Magistrate]

62. Yes, Sir, It Is

An oddity is, by definition, something strange. That something is strange has no signifigance in itself; one must be able to place it some pattern that provides a superior explaination of a mass of facts in order to view it as signifigant. This, no one has done in these matters to any degree remotely approaching a standard satisfactory to my mind.

It is not easy to see, for example, how co-incidence with a drill would necessarily bring benefit to people clandestinely planning from within the seat of government any such operation. There is a possibility it might foster confusion; the cry "This is no drill! Repeat, this is no drill!" is legendary, after all. But it could just as easily work to foster a quicker and more effective response by persons not in on the putative scheme, by having them collected and focused on that matter that then developes. Bureaucracies confronted by sudden emergency are always slow to respond and confused in their response, so that a laggard response could be counted on by any attack, whether outside or inside the structure. Everyone in authority will pass the busk upwards, and be unwilling to be the one who sounded an alarm that might turn out to be false. It would seem to me that the last thing a clandestine group operating within a government structure would do would be to schedule their attack knowingly for a time when an exercise was in progress bearing broadly on what they were attempting: it would be an unecessary risk of uncertain benefit. Competent operatives do not take unnecessary risks for uncertain benefits; that is one of the ways you can distinguish them from the incompetent ones, who tend to end up dead or jailed. If one accepts for purposes of argument your evident view that there is a wide-spread clandestine structure operating with the government structure, for many years, to carry out attacks of such a nature, the very duration and reach you would ascribe to this would argue for its members displaying extraordinary competence in the craft, and being vanishingly unlike to do anything that would draw comment or foster speculation that might demonstrate their existance.

[Minstrel Boy]

72. Newtonian politics and the Quarks of Deep Politics

What you call oddities are those which cannot be accounted for by your paradigm, so you set them aside, as "anomalies," and remove them from serious consideration.

But there comes a time in theoretical pursuits when that which is unaccounted for accrues a certain mass that renders the existing paradigm useless. A new paradigm which can account for the "oddities" and serve as a predictive model, overthrows it.

"Conspiracy" is not a theory; it's an hypothesis for a given event. True theory is Deep Politics, as described by Dr Peter Dale Scott: "the constant, everyday interaction between the constitutionally elected government and forces of violence, forces of crime, which appear to be the enemies of that government." Deep Politics provides, I believe, the best frame of reference for understanding the evident criminalization of the state.

So, from one paradigm to another, greetings.

[bin.dare]

106. let me highly recommend the novel "The Moon of Hoa Binh" ...

... and especially the "unpublished articles" of protagonist Derek Dillon:
http://www.geocities.com/moonhoabinh/

A comment on Newtoniam Politics, Terrorism, and Acausality:

"The truly new factor, however, is not civilian targets, acts of suicide, or groupings formed across national boundaries, but a dimension of acausality. Any action taken by any party has geographically removed disproportionate outcomes which cannot be anticipated because there is no causal geopolitical connection between antecedent and consequent. But this did not begin with 9/11; it began with the war in Sri Lanka, along with Afghanistan, one of the two earliest full-blown characteristic post-Vietnam conflicts.
...
Because of the present instant global communications, transnational mobility of labor, and associated psychological dimension, are situations that are acausally unrelated potentiated more decisively than situations that are causally related? This may well be the case, because causally related proximal situations can be anticipated with some facility and incorporated into contingency planning, while acausally unrelated, yet tacitly yoked or syzygial, removed situations cannot be similarly treated."

[pgh_dem]

130. Possible benefit to planners....

Maybe they wanted more spectacle, less bodies.

Having emergency response teams on high alert would minimize casualties, improve chances of heroic rescues, less panic.

It's a sickening thought, but if you're engaging in the political theater that some posters on this thread suspect, and you *don't* really have it in for the innocents...then you may find a benefit in keeping down the body count.

Not saying it's rational, just saying it *could* be a benefit, if it was an inside job, and the planners were merely evil businessmen accepting collateral damage, rather than psychopaths trying to kill as many people as they could.

[alittlelark]

169. I wonder if DUer 'Truth is All' could give us the odds?

;-)

[paula777]

60. Really, you think these coincidences just show the inherent strangeness

of the world we live in? I don't think know ... I don't want to think anything sinister happened but all these strange things make it pretty hard for me to believe otherwise.

[The Magistrate]

63. This World Is A Strange And Sinister Place, Ma'am

Nothing is so terrifying as whimsical chaos, and that is what we all of us confront every day of our lives.

[Just Me]

80. As strange and sinister as the humans beings,...

,...who are strange and sinister.

Life isn't completely chaotic, and to the extent that we don't understand life, feel like life is chaotic,...we still manage to create structure. We create structure because we need it to be productive.

Your perspective on life as chaotic is interesting.

[The Magistrate]

122. My View Of Life As Chaos, Sir

Is based on having lived a good deal of it, and growing to appreciate something of its style and intricacies, having observed them closely in their impact on myself and others and the general course of events. What are often perceived as structures are charming illussions for the most part, simply shared and agreeavle fictions, and human beings, certainly, are strange and sinister to the core, every single one of them....

[Just Me]

170. I am a woman. I have lived a good deal of this life, too.

My life was not off a silver spoon. I independently financed eight years of "higher education".

I've traveled, I've connected with people from all walks of life. The only "strange and sinister" types I've confronted are those who are pathologically narcississtic. They are few,...very, very few.

Maybe, you should consider visiting the rest of us, out here, the majority of us, who could never be characterized within your perspective, your boxed perspective of humanity.

Believe it or not, the vast majority of us,...are pretty loving and gracious, productive and hopeful, compassionate and honest people. You should take some time to visit us.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[goclark]

99. Help me understand, # 1 What are the odds that

the attack is exactly like the practice drill being done on the same day in London?

# 2 What are the odds that the practice drill on 9 11 is the same as the actual attack?

# 3 What are the odds that Rudy "just happened" to be at both locations on the exact day of the attacks?


What are the odds individually? What are the odds that # 1,2,3 combined happened? Or that #1 and # 2 happened

What are the odds, then I'll take off my tin hat.

Looks like Rudy needs to go to Vegas cause he sure knows how to be in the right place to take care of the world at the right time.

# 4 Oh, and what are the odds that Georgie was missing in action on
9 =11 AND that Rudy just happened to be the Superman to fill in for Georgie?

[The Magistrate]

117. Until, Sir

Someone can demonstrate that any of these things, particularly the presence of Giuliani for a speech in the City, bear on the execution of the attacks in a material way, that question remains as un-important as, say, what color primer is used on the interior of a fighter plane's cowling.

[helderheid]

118. so says you, sir.

[Minstrel Boy]

146. In London for business "and" a speech

according to mainstream sources (Newsday, for instance).

I don't know what he was doing in London, so I don't make any presumption of guilt. But I do want to find out what his business was. Surely not unreasonable.

[dogday]

165. Untrue Sir

If this was handled as a murder investigation, every single coincidence would of been taken into account.

In a Murder Investigation, there is no such thing as a coincidences, ask a detective if a coincidence or two would warrant a red flag in their investigation...

[Must_B_Free]

100. WOW! It sounds like you have stumbled onto the answer to EVERYTHING!

Another way to put it is "The lord works in mysterious ways".

You see everything has a reason. All those people we killed in Iraq - it was all part of God's double super secret plan. I guess God wants us to always be fearful, because he loves us so very much that he wants us to behave by our own free will as influenced by fear.

[helderheid]

101. Yes, it's all random.

:sarcasm:

[The Magistrate]

124. Quite The Contrary, Mr. Free

Very little has any reason at all; the greatest proportion of human juxtiposition and interactions of all sorts most certainly has none. The search for a reason to life, a plan within it, is the greatest trap this world spreads before our minds.

"Cool blue reason comes into your world...."

[bleever]

131. And yet, there is still such a thing as science, and the ability of the

human mind to establish patterns that have predictive value, and to distinguish between what is manifestly causal and that which cannot (at a given time) be reasonably described as such.

Aristotle saw fit to apply this notion to both fact and fiction in the realm of human affairs when he expounded on his so-called law of probability and necessity of human actions.

One best not mistake the absence of an Absolute Reality for the proposition that in all spheres, all is mystery.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

47. Would you like the name of my designer?

:)

[lala_rawraw]

167. PradaFoil? n/t

[helderheid]

168. hehehehhehe

[in_cog_ni_to]

51. OMG. so Guiliani WAS in London on 7-7!

Someone on DU, asked a question about Guiliani and his 'security firm' and whether that was the company who hired the exercises on 7-7. He was in London that day? Joining you in wrapping entire body in tin foil. :scared:

[linazelle]

52. They found the ID's of the culprits AND Giuliani was there? Wow!

What are the odds that they would find ID just like they claimed in at the WTC for the hijackers and our people would be there?

You have to wonder.

[helderheid]

53. a little convenient.

[in_cog_ni_to]

58. just a tad.

:eyes: and just another coincidence. TIA, Truth Is All, needs to run the odds of this. What are the odds that Guiliani would be in London on the same day as the terrorist attack in London on 7-7. What are the odds???? Then, run the odds of Guiliani just happening to own a 'security firm' and a certain 'securty firm' had hired the excercises to be run on that particular day, same day Guiliani was there. Just what are the odds?

[helderheid]

79. yes, TIA? Please? :)

[TruthIsAll]

119. I won't even try to calculate the odds.

But start with this.

Let G = prob(Giuliani is in London)
Let A= prob (terrorist attack in London)
Let D = prob (of a drill)
Let P = prob(of attack in locations of drill)
Let T= prob (of attack at time of drill)

Prob(of these all these events occuring simultaneously) = G*A*D*P*T

[helderheid]

121. Let C = my confusion with statistics!!

Thank you TIA! :hi:

[LibertyorDeath]

67. You may want to add another Layer

Author Comment
Bismillah
Registered Member
Posts: 5
(7/13/05 10:51 pm)
Reply New Post Only 5 bodies identified - 4 of them "suicide bombers&q This is beyond satire, and beyond belief: Out of FIVE identified bodies, FOUR turned out to be “suicide bombers”.

From the BBC, Wednesday 11pm:

“Scotland Yard on Wednesday named six more victims of the bombs, bringing the total of identified bodies to 11.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4677601.stm

So let’s get this straight: by Tuesday evening - when Muslims’ houses in Leeds were already being turned upside down - only five of the London victims had been identified.

Luckily, four out of those five turned to be the Islamist terrorists everyone had been so eagerly awaiting (although one of those allegedly-suicidal alleged fanatics was in fact married to a Hindu).

And get this (from the Boston Herald): no DNA test was needed to identify them as such:

“Police had no need of DNA evidence to identify the suspected bombers as the men were all carrying personal documents. ‘It is as if they wanted their identities to be known,’ a police source told the Times of London. ‘Their names will never be forgotten.’”

news.bostonherald.com/ int…articleid=93582

Aye. Right.

[doublethink]

103. Arrrrrrrrgggggg .....

Suicide bodies identified - 4 of them "suicide bombers&q This is beyond satire, and beyond belief: Out of FIVE identified bodies, FOUR turned out to be “suicide bombers”. " -snip-

Another question, wouldn't ya think the suicide bombers would be the closest to the bombs when they exploded? :shrug: Therefore getting the shit blown out of them, and would be the most difficultt remains to identify? :shrug: Of course if the bombs were on timers' the culpritss could have stepped away from the bombs a few feet? :shrug: :wtf:

[helderheid]

109. but identifying papers were found n/t

[doublethink]

112. Oh yea all four of them had identification on them ....

whatever body parts intact was left of them. Sooooo the other 50 some odd victims weren't carrying ID? :sarcasm: Why 'do it' take so long to identify everyone else? :wtf: Still trying to get my mind around this one. :wtf:

[helderheid]

114. yes, exactly and

:kick:

[doublethink]

115. Dammit ... this one's really bugging me this afternoon .....

as I try to get some work done. :grr: ;) ....
1. Odds are the 'suicide' bombers were the closest to the bombs when they exploded. Presumption on my part admittedly. :shrug:
2. The Police didn't need any DNA evidence to identify them because they were all 4 carrying ID, and 'wanted' to be identified.
3. 50 some odd other victims are probably going through DNA tests to identify. These other 50 something obviously left their ID at home that morning, or are going through other 'standards' to identify.
4. I give up. Peace.

[helderheid]

116. I have PM'd our resident stats guy...

[doublethink]

136. Cuel ...

and lastly ... if someone (as a real 'suicide' bomber) is really intent on committing suicide in such an attack, wouldn't you wanna be closest to the bomb as not to chance coming out of this thing maimed and still alive? I keep running these scenarios through my head and nooooo things don't add up. :freak:

[sintax]

68. Nominated- Need Another

Funny things happen wherever Rudy goes. Mexico City for example.

Seems the trail of tears covers up the laughter Mr. Giuliani

[Twist_U_Up]

69. He was there for this :

The former mayor is in England on business for his firm Giuliani Partners and to speak before the Local Government Association in Harrowgate.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/nyc-giu0708,0,4980839.story?coll=ny-linews-headlines

[paula777]

77. Was Guiliani there to participate in the bomb simulation exercise?

According to this article he has started his own security consulting firm.

"Giuliani has earned millions since starting his security consulting firm nearly four years ago. But he's also had his share of rough patches, most notably his backing of ex-police commissioner Bernard Kerik's bid to become the head of Homeland Security and his firm's failure to significantly reduce crime and kidnapping in Mexico City."

[glitch]

70. Tin foil is the new black, after all. nt

[Goldeneye]

76. Timeline of the anthrax attacks....

if you haven't seen this...nows the time to check it out. It is an excellent timeline put together by the clark community network. They are still adding info...see the latest entry.

Oct 2001- Anthrax is discovered in the offices of Giuliani's Chief of Staff...

Jan 2002- Giuliani Partners is formed - a consulting firm dealing with security, safety and emergency preparedness. Along with Rudy is Michael Hess; Yale grad, former supervisor of NYC's Off Track Betting Corp., formerly operated S & A Concrete Company, and an attorney who argued the Pentagon Papers case against the New York Times. And Bernard Kerrick... And Anthony Carbonetti. Later Rudy appoints Pasquale D'Amuro as CEO; formere NY FBI director- 26 yrs at FBI, created the TTIC and Terrorism Watch List, was inspector in charge of Terror Attacks investigation after 9/11, has briefed Pres. Bush, Ashcroft, NSC, Mueller, etc on terrorism. He was also recipient of a Distinguished Executive award for the FBI from Pres. Bush.
UPDATE 7/8/05:

....

By MICHAEL COOPER
Published: July 8, 2005
Rudolph W. Giuliani, whose legacy as mayor of New York City was transformed by his stewardship during and after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, was on a business trip to London yesterday when he found himself half a block from the first blast there.

<snip> "It was just, to me, very, very eerie to be right there again when one of these attacks takes place," Mr. Giuliani said in an interview on BBC radio.

"Why was I so close both times? Only God can answer questions like that, I guess."

Rudy Giuliani, New York's mayor on 9/11, who was also in London during last week's terrorist attack.


http://blog.forclark.com/story/2005/6/19/51119/2375

[bejammin075]

78. If your tin foil hat isn't big enough...

it might let in just a few mind control rays coming in at low angles, up through the brain stem.

what you're looking for is a full-body tin foil suit, one that blocks out ALL mind control rays, and anything the aliens are broadcasting. in order to see though, you need a 1-way mirror lense with a UV blocking coating to repell the rays out of the eye sockets.

[Emit]

81. Here's a Powers- Giuliani connection

Is Wag News a credible source? Never heard of it...


<<snip>>
Reputed 9/11 researcher, Nico Haupt has uncovered an interesting connection between Rudi Giuliani and Peter Power -the former member of the UK anti-terrorism force, who bragged on TV that he was running a coincident terror drill centered on the Underground stations which were bombed.

Just 24hrs. ago we debunked overblown claims by Alex Jones that 1,000 people took part in that drill and thus gave cover to the real bombers.

But we noted that the wild story by Jones shouldn't let Power off the hook, because he was a very, very well connected PR man for the British "securocracy" establishment -both the private and public sectors. Meanwhile the competent Nico just found exactly how well connected is Mr. Power.

It seems that Power served on the Advisory Board to the Canadian Centre for Emergency Preparedness(CCEP), along with none other than Richard Sheirer, Senior Vice President, Giuliani & Partners.

Former New York mayor Rudi Giuliani, who was in office at the time of the Sept. 11 attacks, was, by sheer coincidence, in London when the recent bombings took place. And by further sheer coincidence, just happened to be only "yards from Liverpool Street station when the bombs went off."

On the website of the CCEP, their internet page listing current advisors shows only Mr Power. However.... if you go to the Google cache of the same page -a snapshot as of 27 Jan 2005- it shows both Power and Sheirer were on the advisory board together.
<<snip>>
http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/07/giuliani-linked-to-london-terror-drill.html

[Minstrel Boy]

84. Both Power and Sheirer were in Toronto this week

for a Canadian security conference.

[helderheid]

85. Should Canada be afraid??

[Emit]

86. Sheirer...

More from that link above on Sheirer:
<<snip>>
In case you forgot exactly who Sheirer is, let's quote from his bio page on the CCEP website:

"Until recently, he was Commissioner of New York City’s Mayor’s Office of Emergency Management (OEM). Following the September 11th World Trade Center disaster, Mr. Sheirer, in his capacity as Director of the Mayor’s Office of Emergency Management, played a key role in overseeing the City’s rescue and recovery operations."
As well as being director of New York's overall emergency response planning in the lead-in to 9/11, Sheirer himself was the city's on-scene coordinator of multiple agency responses to the 9/11 attacks themselves.

<<snip>>

Edited to add link
http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/07/giuliani-linked-to-london-terror-drill.html

[BeHereNow]

127. EMIT! Check the post below!!!

My "Holy Cripes" post.
There it is.
The smoking gun.
WHAT the fuck is Shrierer doing with
Mr. Needham Bennett????
As in "Needham 1834" staging rehearsals
in London for an attack?
http://needhams1834.com/about/case_study.php?case_code=18

BHN

[noamnety]

105. It's not a matter of them being credible or not

If you google "peter power" + Giuliani, you can find the cached page yourself. After the first reports of Power hit DU, I googled that combo just on a hunch, and found it.

[helderheid]

90. forgot to say, I have recommended this thread and hope y'all do the same

[BeHereNow]

97. It IS an action-info packed thread, isn't it?

Some REALLY bizarro things when you
dig into the networking of the players.
Guilliano has got to be connected to the Needham 1834
company- the mystery man Needham-Bennett
also pops up in a PDF document announcing the
launch of the "Eden Project." WiredCornwall in
partnership with Lockheed Martin. Surprise, surprise...
BHN

[Fridays Child]

91. Bookmarking.

This just gets weirder and weirder.

[helderheid]

93. I'm recording BBC 5 Thursday's Drive program from the day of the attacks

which has the Power interview - it also discusses the ORIGINAL timeline. Why would they change the timeline??

[lonestarnot]

92. I want to know the real reason he was there also!

recommended and bookmarked for later!


www.freewayblogger.com

[helderheid]

96. someone asked him

http://www.sianews.com/

Greg Nixon of 11InsideJobbers decided to find out. From a Jul 11, 2005 posting:

I spoke with Giuliani's press secretary to pose the following questions:
Giuliani Partners
5 Times Square
212-931-7300


Question: What was Rudolph Giuliani's stated purpose of the London visit?

- She would only say it was for "business."

Question: Was he a paid/ unpaid consultant or a crisis manager for Visor Consultants in regards to a terror drill for an unnamed company as cited by a BBC Radio 5 interview 7/7/05?

Could not comment. there was nervous awkward silence. She then stated again "it (trip) was for business and that's all the information I can give out" abruptly ended call.....

The President of Visor confirmed that the "exercise" involved simultaneous bombings on the London Underground.

[lonestarnot]

183. Holy crap!

[muriel_volestrangler]

186. Secular crap.

[lonestarnot]

187. How entertaining... someone always watching...world full of stalkers.

[sintax]

94. Giuliani's Mexico City Game

A Story of Fear, Power and Money

www.narconews.com/Issue31/article867.html

Article published September 11, 2003

[DemExpat]

102. Too many freaky coincidences to be coincidence

I read on a BBC article which I cannot find (pulled?) that interviews with youths from the area where the bombers came from found many of them saying that their friends were not suicide bombers - that they unwittingly were exploded in the "exercise"...very possible too.

DemEx

[LibertyorDeath]

107. CANADIAN CENTRE FOR EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS ADVISORY BOARD

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:wcdm.org/wcdm_advs.html+visor++consultants+sheirer&hl=en

Chief Julian Fantino
Chief of Police, Toronto Police Services
Canada
(Click here for Bio)

Edward F. Jacoby, Jr.
Director, New York State Emergency Management Office (SEMO)
United States
(Click here for Bio)

Dr. Donald Low
Chief Microbiologist, Mount Sinai Hospital
Chairman, National Advisory Committee on Bioterrorism
Canada
(Click here for Bio)

Dudley McArdle
Director, Australian Emergency Management Institute
Australia
(Click here for Bio)

Jack McGee
President, Justice Institute of British Columbia
Canada
(Click here for Bio)

Bill Parsons
Sr Vice President Marketing, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Canada
(Click here for Bio)




PETER POWER
Managing Director, VISOR Consultants
United Kingdom
(Click here for Bio)



RICHARD SHEIRER
Senior Vice President, GIULIANI & Partners
United States
(Click here for Bio)






Peter Ryan
Principal Security Advisor, Athens 2004 Olympics
Australia
(Click here for Bio)

Michael G. W. Smith
Managing Director, Risk Consulting Practice, Global Business Continuity Leader, Marsh
Canada
(Click here for Bio)

Chief (Retired) Alan Speed
Fire Chief (Retired), Toronto Fire Services
Canada
(Click here for Bio)

J.R. Thomas
President-elect, International Association of Emergency Managers (IAEM)
United States
(Click here for Bio)

Dr. Saul B. Wilen
President and CEO of International Horizons Unlimited (IHU)
United States
(Click here for Bio)

Dr. James Young
Commissioner of Emergency Management
Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services, Province of Ontario
Canada
(Click here for Bio)

[BeHereNow]

108. My, my...Peter gets around, doesn't he?

And how interesting that he and Gulliano are
listed together here.
BHN

[LibertyorDeath]

113. Visor doesn't have to say who contracted them to run the fake terror drill

but if it wasn't GIULIANI & Partners then they could go on the record with that info without compromising the privacy of who it was.

I'm not holding my breath though.

[truebrit71]

110. What are the odds that two "terrorist" attacks happen in two countries..

..at the EXACT TIME that those countries are running training exercises for the very attacks that occurred.

The odds that it would happen once, on 9/11 were huge...but TWICE? In the SAME LONDON STATIONS that were hit? Do you have any idea how many tube stations there are? Do you have any idea how HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE the odds are that this is just a series of coincedences?

Wow....my head hurts....

[BeHereNow]

111. Go you one further-

Gulliano and Peter Power keep popping up
around the attacks?

Hmmm.
BHN

[BeHereNow]

120. HOLY CRIPES DU!!! CHECK THIS!!!!!!!!

NEEDHAM 1834 AND VISOR TEAM
PICTURED WITH RICHARD SHEIRER.
HOLY FUCKARAMA.

http://wagnews.blogspot.com/
Scroll down for pic

http://www.visorconsultants.com/teamvisor.html

Tell me they are not the same person!!!!
Chris Needham-Bennett whose company Needham 1834
lists a case study, involving London attack...
http://needhams1834.com/about/case_study.php?case_code=18
FUCK!
BHN

[helderheid]

123. GAH!!!

[BeHereNow]

125. GAH is right!

What the hell???
BHN

[Emit]

132. Maybe my eyes are failing me,

but I don't see Needhams1834/Sheirer at this link--don't see the pic you're referring to...

http://wagnews.blogspot.com/

:shrug:

Man, is it just me? Or, am I missing something? :silly:

[BeHereNow]

163. There is a picture of Sheirer and Chris Needham Bennett

on the page-
You have to scroll down about 3/4s of the page.
Check the photo of Scheirer and the blond man
with the bio picture on the Visor team link.
BHN

[Emit]

171. I think that's Sir Christopher Meyer with Sheirer

Here's a pic of Meyer:



And here's a pic and link to Chris Needham-Bennett with Team Visor:

http://www.visorconsultants.com/teamvisor.html

[helderheid]

129. What about the cameras?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07/britain.constant.surveillance.ap/

Will we ever see footage or will it all disappear like other footage we know of?

[ima_sinnic]

134. cameras on one bus were not working (how convenient!)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15717499%26method=full%26siteid=94762%26headline=exclusive%2d%2d58%2d%2dthe%2dhunt-name_page.html

... the investigation received a serious setback when it was discovered the CCTV cameras on the bus that blew up were not working so detectives will not get vital images of the bomber.

One senior Yard source said: "It's a big blow and a disappointment. If the cameras had been running we would have had pin-sharp close-up pictures of the person who carried out this atrocity.

"We don't know if the driver forgot to switch them on or if there was a technical problem but there are no images."

The bus had four cameras - one covering people getting on, the second at the exit doors and one on each deck scanning the length of the vehicle.

But the anti-terrorist squad are confident that other CCTV footage will help nail the three other terrorists.

Senior sources at the Yard said they were seizing film from an estimated 2,000 cameras in the biggest operation of its kind.

Film from every Tube train and station will be examined as well as footage from the 12 main line termini and scores of platform cameras and trains across the British Rail network....

[in_cog_ni_to]

137. ima_sinnic!! How are you?

Good to see you! :hi:

[ima_sinnic]

138. hey, back atcha, in_cog!

:hi:

I've been looking around our ole stomping ground lately (actually looking for ideas for my auction listings!). I noticed tex still posting and the politics still VERY MORONIC! but hardly any politics on the AL threads now. those others, like 5-crows and veryvintage, are probably in some other forum, like Soapbox.

[helderheid]

142. any ideas about the cameras in the Underground??

[lonestarnot]

184. My same reaction!

[muriel_volestrangler]

133. Wow - 132 replies, and only one has given the actual reason

Post #69, since only one person bothered replying to it.

Report of Giuliani's speech to the Local Government Association annual conference:

http://www.lgib.gov.uk/news/2005/07-Jul-2005-2.html

[in_cog_ni_to]

135. and that means what?

He can't multi-task? He was in London just because of that speech? It looks more like a cover for what he was really doing there. Honestly. Think about it. What are the odds that this happened while he was there? The truth will come out...sooner or later.

[muriel_volestrangler]

139. Well, we know he wasn't taking part in the disaster exercise

because that was in a room with the crisis managers of a company, but he was having breakfast:

''It was very strange being here today and being a block or half a block away when the bomb went off,'' Giuliani said. ''We were in a hotel having breakfast when it happened and we were told originally that it was either an accident or a device, and then obviously when the second attack happened, we knew,'' he said.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-trudy08.html

It's a city of about 8 million people. It is possible for an awful lot of people to be present in it without having a connection.

So are you now claiming the Local Government Association were in on the conspriacy too?

[in_cog_ni_to]

140. and you believe whatever Guiliani says?

I don't. He didn't have to be 'present' for the exercise to take place. No, I'm not saying the local Gov was involved. They were probably kept in the dark about what was going down. That's my take.

[beam me up scottie]

145. So if he didn't need to be present,

why would they put him there ?

Didn't they know every ct site on the net would pee itself over that ?

Didn't they know it would look suspicious ?

You're telling me that these people run the world and expect me to believe that they would make a mistake like that ?

[muriel_volestrangler]

152. Simple - they haven't read the Evil Overlord Handbook

Always trying to take shortcuts, these people. :evilgrin:

http://www.evilrulers.com/eviloverlord.htm

[beam me up scottie]

161. D'OH !!!

How could I forget the Manual ?

****************************************
Rule #'s 2 & 3

I will be secure in my superiority. Therefore, I will feel no need to prove it by leaving clues to my Master Plan in the form of riddles for my enemies to find.

I will see a competent psychiatrist and be cured of all unusual phobias or bizarre compulsive habits which could prove to be disadvantageous.
****************************************

:rofl:

[in_cog_ni_to]

156. uh, yeah!

look around. It's all in plain sight for a reason. So no one will believe it.

[beam me up scottie]

158. BWAHAHAHAHAHA !!!

Muriel's answer is much more credible, sorry.

[Minstrel Boy]

166. "Didn't they know it would look suspicious?"

Suspicious to who? To those you think are credulous paranoiacs?

Does it look suspicious to you, or the corporate media?

What, Rudy worry?

[beam me up scottie]

143. So if the members of the BFEE boys club

went through all of the trouble to bomb London to further their evil agenda, why would they put Giuliani in London at the same time ?

Why would they let him be interviewed on BBC ?

And why would they have a private company run a tabletop exercise to simulate an attack on the same day ?

Doesn't that implicate them ?

And why is it that they believe the MSM when it suits them and cherry pick the articles that support their *cough*theory?*cough*, but yet they claim that ALL OF THE OTHER MSM REPORTS ARE NOT TO BE BELIEVED ?

[in_cog_ni_to]

157. see post 156 same answer. n/t

[Minstrel Boy]

148. He was in London for more than a speech:

The former mayor is in England on business for his firm Giuliani Partners and to speak before the Local Government Association in Harrowgate.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/nyc-giu0708,0,4980839.story?coll=ny-linews-headlines

[muriel_volestrangler]

162. But we know the timing of his visit would be determined

by the speech to the annual conference. People want to know why he was in London at the time of the bombing - because of the conference.

[Janice325]

141. I've been going through this thread

and all I can say is OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[robertpaulsen]

147. Bookmarked and recommended!

This is certainly a fascinating possibility. :)

[Clark2008]

150. And wtf's with all the "7's?"

WTC 7 and 7/7.

I thought 666 or, in some circles, 616, was the mark of the beast. :shrug:

[helderheid]

154. flight 77

[beam me up scottie]

159. ooooooooooooooooooooooo

That's spooky.

[schrodingers_cat]

151. Check out this post re. mastermind of 7/7 - was previously captured by US

please read entire post - this guy could have been 'helpful' to those needing a reason to blame iraq for 'terrorism'


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1626763


:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[muriel_volestrangler]

155. Not quite - the man occupying the flat *before* the suspected 'mastermind'

has the same name as the man the US captured - Samir al-Ani. The 'mastermind' is thought to have come into Britain via a sea port about a month ago, and left by air right before the bombings.

[beam me up scottie]

160. If you want to read a REAL scoop:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4104485

THIS is big.

Let the mental masturbators chew on the Giuliani for a few more days, it will keep them busy.

[sleipnir]

164. I'll bet $500 Nick Berg is going to be linked to this whole thing.

It's just right up the same alley...

He's the guy that keeps on turning up around many terrorists attacks, until he was killed in Iraq last year, by "Al-Zarqawi." (funny how Zarqawi is a main suspect in the London bombing.)

And his E-mail and password wound up in the hands of 9/11 suspect Zacarias Moussaoui at the University of Oklahoma. The director of The University of Oklahoma, that Berg attended, is David L. Boren, mentor of CIA director George Tenet. Berg higley connected to the players in OKC, which is now linked to Islamic terrorism.

Tenet and the DSM, the DSM and Rove et Plame.

The craziest things seem to be coming out.

[seemslikeadream]

174. You're the second person to mention Berg in the last 24 hrs

CBS: Bizarre New Link in Berg Murder (Berg and Moussaoui)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=553244
The victim: More than work drew him to Iraq
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=551848
Beheaded hostage 'had been warned to leave Iraq'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=549507
FBI Saw Berg Before Beheading
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=550573
Body found on Baghdad overpass identified as that of American
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=547236
Berg worked at night on a Abu Ghraib tower
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=550780
Bush Condemns Execution of Berg in Iraq
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=550095
Spokesman Says Berg Never Held by Forces
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=549641
Executioner wore gold ring - forbidden by Islam
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=553663
Bush: Berg's killers must be found
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=557156
Filmmaker Moore Says He Has Berg Footage (an interview with Berg)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=586789
Jayna Davis Dissects Berg-Moussaoui Links
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=565168
Berg beheading: No way, say more medical experts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=571473
BERG MET WITH SHADY IRAQI (Berg's business partner was a Chalabi wannabe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=560487

[Al-CIAda]

175. Damn, thats fine work SLAD, cool. n/t

[sleipnir]

176. He's just like Oswald, always turning up at the most unusual places.

He's alive and somehow he's connected to this whole thing.

But the thing is, what side is he on? Perhaps he's been trying to stop each attack but is getting foiled by the NeoCons, or maybe he's on their team, or is he Moussad?

It's a sick web, but it's all related, we are just starting to put the pieces together.

I think Berg's "death" was just a cover to get him back in the field under a new name.

[lockdown]

172. Maybe the exercise used real plans recovered in Pakistan

According to the news linking Naeem Noor Khan, exposed last year by the Bush administration, with one of the bombers, Khan's laptop "contained plans for a coordinated series of attacks on the London subway system". Maybe this exercise was based at least in part on those plans? These "security consultants" are all Clancy wankers, and access to such data is probably a perk of the job for the more connected ones. That access and frisson of Clancy reality would also heighten the appeal of the exercise to clients. Perhaps they ran it regularly for different companies, which would make it less of a sinister coincidence, but still extremely embarrassing if they were utilizing classified data they had no clearance for.

[doublethink]

178. So what your hypothesizing is that .....

maybe the bombing plans found in Naeem Noor Khan's computer (which were carried out in real life in London on 7/7) ..... and the 'security exercise' plans of 7/7 ..... "were the same plan", coincidently played out on the same day, exact same times, exact same places in London. But otherwise not connected, except for origin of the plans? Could be ..... :crazy: Peace. :)

[lockdown]

179. Something like that

Reports are suggesting that after the Naeem Noor Khan related raids last year, the plan wasn't scrapped but was passed to another "cell". Given the people running these private sector exercises have contacts in the intelligence community with access to such data, what better way to realistically simulate an attack than to use a real plan recently disrupted? Maybe there would be discreet but official approval of that information sharing, to improve preparations for possible attacks, with little harm seen if it was presumed the plan had been scrapped.

Don't shoot me, just speculation! The exercise being on the same day, same times, same locations is quite some coincidence, but if it had been based on a real, but wrongly presumed disrupted, plan to improve effectiveness, and the same exercise was carried out regularly with different companies, it becomes a lot less coincidental. Would beg a lot more questions though, as it would mean they had precise advance warning of where and how.

[doublethink]

180. This line of thinking begs a lot more questions..........

then it answers. Interesting hypothesis your hitting on here though, and it could presumably go just about anywhere. Opens up a whole different can of worms to say the least. I could see anyone taking this and well ............. without more information, into any theory they wanted to come out with. I would like to first see a verified news report somewhere stating that the plan on Khan's computer was the one used in the attack before speculating any further. And even then, your speculation would be just as relevant as a LIHOP, MIHOP or NO HOP explanation coming out of this even then. My head is spinning again. Peace. :)

[lockdown]

185. Oh I agree.

Just a late night brain fart as I digested the revelations on last year's raids, without more information that's all it can be. As you say, it would be very interesting to get details on the tube bombing plot discovered last year, if it closely parallels last week's real attack then it raises serious questions regardless of this exercise. But that's for another thread. :)

[helderheid]

177. .

[Geek_Girl]

188. Not sure how this is related

But I find it another eerie coincidence.

<snip>Authorities told ABC News that records show Mohammed Sidique Khan, the eldest of the bombers now believed to be the field commander of the attacks, had called a person who is associated with the Islamic Center, a mosque in Queens, N.Y. Yet, a member of that mosque claimed they had no knowledge of the phone call.</snip>

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/LondonBlasts/story?id=943648&page=1

[helderheid]

191. .