Do you respect those who have committed suicide?

[dhinojosa]

Poll question: Do you respect those who have committed suicide?

Do you respect those who have committed suicide?

If that doesn't make sense, try this:

Someone you knew and respected committed suicide. Do you continue to have respect for that person?

And if that doesn't make sense:

Someone you respected committed suicide, do you still respect that person who committed suicide.

And if that doesn't make sense, I really don't know what tell ya.

[justinsb]

1. Who Everyone who commits suicide?

Certain people? Under what circumstances?

[dhinojosa]

2. huh?

Everyone? I don't get it.

[justinsb]

5. Me either

I don't know what you're talking about. Do you mean all the people who commit suicide? Do you mean termanally ill people who do it? Who are you talking about?

[dhinojosa]

9. Just anyone.

I didn't say "everybody" in my post...I am wondering where you got that.

[justinsb]

13. Oh...then I'm afraid I can't answer

I'd have to take it on a case by case basis.

[dhinojosa]

16. righton. :) nt

[Yupster]

96. I voted it depends

If a person id suffering terrible pain and is terminally ill, I would have absolute respect for them and their decision to kill themselves.

If a person dtrapped a bomb on them and blew themselves up in a hospital, I'd have nothing but contempt for them.

So, it depends.

[K-W]

3. I support the right to self determination.

Respect would depend on the scenario.

[smbolisnch]

4. I don't understand the question.

:shrug:

[dhinojosa]

6. Does this sound better?

If someone you know committed suicide would you still respect him or her?

[Maddy McCall]

10. Why should the manner of their death detract from their life?

[smbolisnch]

11. I don't think it has anything to do with respect.

I guess by my saying I don't understand the question, I meant I don't understand where you are going with this. Can you be more specific please?

[dhinojosa]

12. Then I guess your answer would be no.

It's not complicated, someone you know commits suicide, do you still respect that person?

[smbolisnch]

15. NO, my answer would not be no.

That's not what I said. If I respected the person while they were living, the manner in which they died would have no bearing on whether I respect them after their death.

You didn't answer my question, what is your point/where are you going with this?

[Maddy McCall]

14. Yes. It's a fucked up poll question.

Do I vote NO because I don't base my respect on a person on how they die? Do I vote YES because I think suicide is cool and I gotta respect that? Do I vote Depends because the question makes no sense?

I gotta go with DEPENDS, and I don't mean the adult diaper. :D

[smbolisnch]

17. It certainly is. There is no fair answer, not for me at least.

I didn't vote. It is a stupid question that has yet to be explained :shrug:

[dhinojosa]

19. I have different variations of the same question in the OP

hope they work out for ya, if they don't.....well tough.

[smbolisnch]

21. It's a stupid fucking question.

If you haven't picked up on that by all of the 'what are you talking about' responses, well, tough.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[smbolisnch]

24. Nice personal insults.

If you don't want to explain your question better, that's fine. I understood what you were asking, I wanted to know where you were going with it.....you couldn't answer me.

Ah fuck it, I am not going to argue with you. :eyes:

[dhinojosa]

26. You put the ammonia in the mix, don't blame me for the taste....

Personally attack me, I will personally attack you. Not that complicated.

[Maddy McCall]

25. I guess I'm brain-dead, too.

The question makes no sense.

[dhinojosa]

28. There are three of them in the original post!!!!

Sweet Lord PEEPS!

from the original post:

Do you respect those who have committed suicide?

If that doesn't make sense, try this:

Someone you knew and respected committed suicide. Do you continue to have respect for that person?

And if that doesn't make sense:

Someone you respected committed suicide, do you still respect that person who committed suicide.

And if that doesn't make sense, I really don't know what tell ya.

[Maddy McCall]

34. Why are you so personally invested in this question that you attack...

people who think the question is stupid? Care to share?

[dhinojosa]

59. Ugh. There are three questions there.

Take a look. All rephrased for better understanding.

[dhinojosa]

30. and futhermore If you have a better phrased question

I can put it up there too, granted it is not the easiest thing to ask..

Plus you are not braindead. I am just attacking the bum who attacked me. Nothing personal. :)

[smbolisnch]

31. I never attacked you, I asked for clarification.

You might want to reread my posts.

[dhinojosa]

32. Saying "It's a stupid fucking question" is not asking for clarification.

But like I said, I know I offered a difficult question, and I have 3 different rephrases to the question here on the OP (Original Post)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4067590&mesg_id=4067590

If you have better worded questions that help me, I'd be happy to put it up there.

:)

[Maddy McCall]

36. I really don't think anyone attacked you.

You just seem awfully defensive about the question.

Suicide is something that strikes people on a personal level, because many people, myself included, have relatives who have committed or attempted to commit suicide.

[smbolisnch]

38. Exactly. nt

[dhinojosa]

50. I am not defensive about it....

Otherwise I would not accept better phrased questions for it. But after conceding that there could be better question I still got the "It's a stupid fucking question". Oh well, some people shoot first, think later.

And I agree that suicide strikes people at a different personal level, that's why I am polling on it. I have to admit the word "respect" is throwing people off though.

[dhinojosa]

18. I posted a differently phrased question in the OP....

maybe that'll help break that logic block...

[Chichiri]

7. And now, Chichiri performs "The Pass" by Rush.

Proud swagger out of the schoolyard
Waiting for the world’s applause
Rebel without a conscience
Martyr without a cause

Static on your frequency
Electrical storm in your veins
Raging at unreachable glory
Straining at invisible chains

And now you’re trembling on a rocky ledge
Staring down into a heartless sea
Can’t face life on a razor’s edge
Nothing’s what you thought it would be

All of us get lost in the darkness
Dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter
Dreamers turn to look at the cars
Turn around and turn around and turn around
Turn around and walk the razor’s edge
Don’t turn your back
And slam the door on me


It’s not as if this barricade
Blocks the only road
It’s not as if you’re all alone
In wanting to explode

Someone set a bad example
Made surrender seem all right
The act of a noble warrior
Who lost the will to fight

And now you’re trembling on a rocky ledge
Staring down into a heartless sea
Done with life on a razor’s edge
Nothing’s what you thought it would be

All of us get lost in the darkness
Dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter
Dreamers turn to look at the cars
Turn around and turn around and turn around
Turn around and walk the razor’s edge
Don’t turn your back
And slam the door on me


No hero in your tragedy
No daring in your escape
No salutes for your surrender
Nothing noble in your fate
Christ, what have you done?

All of us get lost in the darkness
Dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter
Dreamers turn to look at the cars
Turn around and turn around and turn around
Turn around and walk the razor's edge
Turn around and walk the razor's edge
Turn around and walk the razor’s edge
Don’t turn your back
And slam the door on me

[Bluerthanblue]

46. sometimes

there aren't any stars to look at-
and the dreams are continual nightmares-

no denying it's selfish- no denying it hurts those one least desires to hurt- but sometimes the pain is beyond bearing.

You can only truly understand, if you've 'been there'-
like childbirth-

for too many, far too many, it is the last best hope.

'been there' didn't quite make it-
for good? for ill? alota the time i can't be sure

but, the lack of respect wouldn't 'enter in' to the decision-
the harm and hurt done to those left behind would-
but screw 'respect'- that won't matter-


picking scabs- should'a passed this one by

[Maddy McCall]

8. Respect? What does that have to do with suicide?

It I "respected" a person before his death, the fact that he (or she) committed suicide would not change my feelings about that person.

Are you asking if suicide is damnable or takes away from the person's life's achievments? I say NO.

[Ron Green]

37. I think suicide might diminish a person's life achievements to a certain

degree, simply because the decision not to face life's challenges by living though them but to check out is a less-courageous choice, and could thereby take away something from other, more courageous decisions.

I don't think this would always be the case; there could be some instances in which suicide is the best choice, perhaps to end a terminal illness, or in some belief systems to die an honorable death after meeting with some dishonor in life.

For the most part, though, I think it's a cowardly choice, a less-than-respectable end to life.

[jmm]

20. I'd feel upset at the circumstances which led them to

commit suicide. However as long as they didn't endanger anyone in the process I wouldn't let their death detract from what I thought of them during their life.

[davekriss]

23. "Do you respect those who have committed suicide?"

Your question asks whether or not we respect all, the entire set of people, who have committed suicide. My answer to that is, it depends. On the circumstances.

If you asked could I respect anyone who has committed suicide, my answer would be yes, of course. The soldier who jumps on a live grenade to save his buddies and loses his life has committed suicide. The free hanging mountain climber who cuts his rope so as not to pull down his comrades commits suicide. Both are altruistic chosen deaths deserving of respect.

But I can also respect someone who is in so much physical or psychic pain that they end their life. There isn't necessarily any cowardice or shamefulness to the act of suicide per se. It can be heroic, it can be understandable, and I can respect that.

Suicides are more often just terribly tragic, a permanent solution to a temporary problem. The emotion that comes to mind is grief and sadness, not disrespect.

[Maddy McCall]

27. Sometimes, though, it's a permanent solution to a permanent problem.

[davekriss]

33. Yes

And I can respect that.

[Bouncy Ball]

29. It's an unresolved issue for me.

I had a very dear friend who shot himself in the head in January of 1999.

Everyone was shocked, absolutely shocked. In hindsight, of course, there were signs. He cashed out his 401K but told us he was re-investing it. We should have known that was a pile of shit. He bought a beautiful brand-new truck and we kind of wondered where he got the money for that. And it was out of character for him, because he was always a bit of a tightwad.

But at the time, NO ONE would have suspected. I mean, no one. He left a note, but only his parents and the police have read it.

He was engaged to be married. There was speculation that he found out he had a horrible cancer, but an autopsy revealed no such thing.

So we still don't know. And I lost a dear friend that day. No goodbye, no nothing. I can't even remember what we said the last time we talked. He checked himself into a hotel room with his gun and that was it.

I was angry with him for a long time. I still am, a little bit. But mostly sad, wishing I could have done something.

I don't know how respect fits in.

[davekriss]

53. Anger is understandable for the survivor

As your remarks illustrate, anyone considering suicide I think should do their best to consider the consequences of their actions. If they are contemplating death to escape pain and suffering, that pain and suffering does not necessarily just go away, it just spreads onto the ones who love you like so many shed tears. Consider further the trauma on the ones who find your corpse. Suicide can be a very selfish act. As an alternative, I suggest that any such person simply breath. In. Out. In again. Out. Hear that bluejay just now? In. Out. In. Look at how the sun breaks through the window onto the bookcase! Out. Just beautiful. In. Out. Keep it up. Keep it up. The moment will pass. I promise you that.

Ahh
That's why the birds can sing
On the darkest day
They believe in spring!

I have no personal experience with suicide. I remember reading a book by Aldous Huxley decades ago, Point Counterpoint, where the passionate Spangler does himself in. Huxley says it would be so much better if he just played that record on his player, The Brandenburg Concertos, and took in the glory of being, instead of latching on with fatal focus to just those things that troubled him.

Life is a gift. Every breath we take, every beat of our hearts, pure gift. How someone could freely throw it away I cannot contemplate. Things must be so overwhelmingly negative, like a frozen tsunami about to break hanging over one's head, that they feel they have to hasten the inevitable. And those that surround the suicide will grieve, be sad, and angry. I feel for all of them.

[uppityperson]

35. Depends on why they commited suicide.

If they were terminally physically ill and chose to end their life, and I respected them before, yes. Of course we are all terminal, so I realize that taking this to it's unhypocritical conclusion would mean I would always say yes, but I can't.

If I respected them before, even if not critically ill, I don't know. I know that people commit suicide because they can see no way out, are terminally psychologically ill, but I would have greater respect for them if they could figure out another way to get help rather than killing themselves, but they would do this if they could but they can't so, it depends.

It depends. I have known people who committed suicide. Some have the same level of respect from me as before, usually they don't afterwards if the respect was good before.

[Guaranteed]

39. There's nothing wrong with your poll.

Some people just live to attack them.

[smbolisnch]

40. Or just think it is an insensitive question.

[Guaranteed]

42. Why? Because it's something that real people have dealt with?

It's not theoretical enough?

It seems as if you're attacking it to quash discussion, based on your opinion.

Why not just state your opinion on the subject, instead of giving this rigmorole about the question not making sense and then it's "insensitive" and all this?

Don't attack the poll. Answer the question.

[smbolisnch]

44. I did answer the question.

Jesus Christ. Did you even read the thread before you posted?

[Maddy McCall]

41. And some people live to carry animosity from thread to thread.

:eyes:

[Guaranteed]

43. I'm just sick of seeing polls get attacked when someone

asks a question that for some reason others don't want to see asked.

[smbolisnch]

45. Nobody cares if the question is asked.

I asked him several times "where are you going with this?" He never answered. That lead me to believe he didn't really know.

[AuntPatsy]

54. You asked a very resonable question. I too am awaiting the answer?

[smbolisnch]

56. Thanks, I figured more people wondered the same than just 2 of us.

I don't think we are going to get it, though. :shrug:

[davekriss]

67. Maybe he's contemplating suicide...

...and was looking for us to provide a way out?


What if???

[smbolisnch]

71. I don't know, what if? nt

[Maddy McCall]

47. FYI, you happened along after the edit.

Prior to the edit, the question made no sense.

[dhinojosa]

58. During my edit, I didn't overwrite, I appended....same Qs are there

FYI

[uppityperson]

49. I'm sick of seeing polls attacked when someone

doesn't like the question, either how it is asked, or what choices they are given, or don't understand it. You don't need to vote in every poll. You don't need to respond to every message. You don't have to agree or respond to anyone. End of rant.

[Maddy McCall]

66. When it's about suicide, it touches people, who have lost a loved one...

to suicide, on a personal level. And, according to the way the poll was first asked, before the edit, it was meant for people who have had loved ones die at their own hands.

This isn't a Karl Rove is an idiot, yes or no, poll. It's about a tragic, emotional situation that affects some people for the rest of their lives. See Dakini's post below.

Therefore, this is the kind of post at DU that is hard to ignore for people who have been personally affected by the topic matter of the post.

But rant on, if it pleases you.

[uppityperson]

75. Yup.

Mine was a generalized rant about responses to polls in general, taking advantage of the situation coming up. Perhaps not the best place or time. I am watching myself today, noticing I am as reactive as many others are. It's been quite a week. Hope you and yours are staying dry.

[Maddy McCall]

76. It has been a hellacious week for everyone.

:hug: Everyone's dry and safe here. Thanks. :)

[dhinojosa]

57. Thanks BullGooseLoony!!!!

I was thought it was my question. I thought it was valid, in fact I have 3 different ones to help with the understanding of the question.

Right on!!!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

88. There is something wrong with the poll

It isn't that the thread starter wasn't being PC. It is that the poll demonstrates a lack of respect for people who have survived those who have committed suicide.

In essence, it asks if they respect them but it also, by its nature prods them not to.

It isn't whether one respects a suicide victim, it's whether they honor their memory in spite of the nature of their demise.

[Misskittycat]

90. Agree. It also fails to understand suicide. It assumes that all

who commit suicide are cowardly weaklings. Many who ultimately commit suicide have long waged valiant battles against unbearable physical or mental pain. If you haven't experienced that level of pain yourself, you can't possibly understand.

I'm not at all suggesting that every effort available not be taken to help suicidal people, but a little compassion and real understanding is needed.

[Guaranteed]

91. But saying that is begging the question.

What you're saying is that, in light of your response to the poll, the question shouldn't be asked.

It sounds as if you have an opinion to answer the question with. Why not just answer it with that opinion? Others obviously have the opposite opinion. Why are they not allowed to share it?

Further, the poll does not answer its own question. It's only raising the issue, to which there are, at least, two sides.

[janx]

48. Tell me about the people who are dead, those you have loved.

Did they kill themselves intentionally? Did they do so by the use of drugs and alcohol?

Have you ever known anyone to shoot him/herself?

Tell me your deepest feelings about those dead people. Then we'll discuss the way I feel.

[dhinojosa]

55. A few attempted.

Two family, three friends, all attempted. I talked two out of it, and I drove two friends to the hospital to get their stomachs pumped. They just couldn't handle their current situation, mostly heartbreak or money. I think I would lose respect for them if they went through with it.

On note, none have tried or succeeded for terminal illness.

[janx]

62. Talking people out of it?

If you talked anyone out of suicide, then you were not dealing with real suicide attempts.

What about the corpses? What about the kid across the street who shot himself?

I wasn't talking about terminal illness; I was talking about mental illness which can be terminal because of repeated suicide attempts.

Please be careful with posts like this. Those of us who have known attempts and "successes" don't appreciate them. We love people and are often devastated when they are gone.

I'm sorry to sound harsh. Please understand that although there are people who threaten suicide via melodrama or by drinking too much, there are real suicidal people out there who mean it--there's a big difference.

[Maddy McCall]

63. Yes. The first sentence in your post. YES.

100% correct.

:hi: Janx.

[janx]

70. Hey back to you, Maddy.

I wish I didn't know about it, but I do.

[Maddy McCall]

72. Yes....

so do I. More than once, sadly. :(

:hug: to you.

[smbolisnch]

64. Well said.

You illustrated exactly what I have been fumbling to say this entire thread. I suppose I am just too tired.

[janx]

73. I'm tired too. n/t

[dhinojosa]

80. So don't bother talking and helping people?

"If you talked anyone out of suicide, then you were not dealing with real suicide attempts."

That's some line. Are you saying there is no use in talking to people and helping them out of their suicide?

This whole post rubs of arrogance as if your suicide experiences are better than mine. That's not cool, this is not a competition, sorry.

[Dakini23]

51. Suicide is painless....

My Father commited suicide 6 years ago...I still love him and respect him very much. He was an amazing father and a wonderful human being. He decided to end his life, for what reasons I will never truly know. I don't like that he killed himself, but it was his decision and I have to respect him for that.
I am not a Christian, so I have a different view about suicide and death in general. I don't believe he is burning in eternal hell or is suffering. He is at peace.

[Maddy McCall]

60. Dakini...

I am sorry about your dad. Suicide of a family member is a terrible thing to go through. But, like you said, your father was a good Dad and a good person, so he shouldn't be judged on how he decided to end his life on Earth.

Hugs to you. I know personally how traumatic it can be. :hug:

Welcome to DU.

[Dakini23]

65. Hugs Back Maddy!

Thanks :) (((hugs)))

[davekriss]

61. My condolences

What this proves is that there really is little we control in life. An "amazing" human being and wonderful father, with a son or daughter that respected him very much, quietly held such pain inside that he chose to take his life. It was his pain, and he freely chose how to handle it. It of course had nothing to do with you. I'm glad that this has not changed your loving respect for what he was to you while alive.

[enigmatic]

52. It has zero to do...

on whether I respect them or not based on how they died.

[mandyky]

68. I put depends

until we have medical care, including psychiatric care for all Americans, someone committting suicide is not something I (or anyone else) should judge. I've been to that brink and returned and made changes. I know people are hurt who are left behind. But this is a choice issue, obviously things have them so upset they want out. I understand that. What kept me from pulling the trigger was that i was pregnant and i felt I could do "it" later if I still felt that bad.
I did not want to take another life with me if i went.

[Bluebear]

69. If someone is in that much pain they could care less if I 'respect' them

Someone I knew and respected just did commit suicide last month. It's interesting, I felt horrible for what she must have been going through mentally but it never entered my mind to respect her less.

[janx]

74. Those who attempt or commit suicide weigh those risks. But sometimes

they just can't handle life enough to avoid hurting you. It's a delicate balance.

We always hope to keep them on our side; we don't want to lose them.

[xmas74]

77. Depends on the person and the reasoning behind it.

[Warren DeMontague]

78. That's a strange question; I think it would depend on the context. But

I still have deep respect for Hunter S. Thompson.

[Speed8098]

79. Suicide is selfish.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

My father in law killed himself over a woman. In my opinion he is/was a thoughtless, self centered son-of-a-bitch. He left behind 2 beautiful daughters and a son.

Suicide is selfish.

When there is adversity in your life, you DO NOT contemplate suicide, you find the solution to the problem at hand. Suicide, in my opinion, is an extreme act of weakness.

I voted NO.

Even if someone was a pillar of strength in life, they become an icon for weakness the moment they go through with the final act.

Some of you people need to get a clue.

Death is FINAL

Those of you that condone this act should look at your teenage sons and daughters because they are the most likely group to kill themselves.

Suicide is NEVER the answer, no matter what the problem is.

[marions ghost]

84. such weakness

may also be cause for compassion.

It's natural to think that suicide is "weak" and even "selfish." It certainly is hell for the survivors. But the kind of depression that leads to suicide is not comprehensible to those who have a more positive atttude towards adversity.

Of course suicide is never the answer, but it makes no sense to be so judgmental about it, no matter what the circumstances. Who knows, that self-centered SOB might have actually realized it (or known it at some emotional level) and felt he didn't have any other options to get out of his misery. Maybe he did it for LESS selfish reasons. Who really knows? We just do not know exactly what goes on in the depths of other humans.

To disrespect a person for committing suicide is pointless and harsh. Sometimes people cannot take responsibility for themselves on this earth and they seek oblivion in many ways--e.g. alcoholism, a slower form of suicide. These are tragedies, acts of despair, something to be pitied. Life just gets unbearably hard for some and suicide is a complex reaction to that, even at times a reaction to physical changes. The suicide rate also says a lot about our cultural pressures.

The strong should help the weak, not invalidate them.

[Speed8098]

98. "The strong should help the weak, not invalidate them"

What I didn't tell you is that my father in law sat himself down in front of a video camera and rambled on for 2 hours on the day before he committed this most selfish of acts.
Then he sent it to his oldest daughter who received it in the mail AFTER the deed was done.

If he would have given us the chance, we would have been happy to help him with his weakness. BUT HE DIDN'T GIVE US THE CHANCE!

I didn't invalidate him, he did it to himself.

Life is full of surprises, some of which are horrendous. How we deal with them determines our character.

NEVER, EVER condone suicide.

It is and will always be the utmost in selfishness.
To think otherwise if foolish.
The ONLY person they are thinking about at the time of their act is themselves.

[marions ghost]

99. you know sometimes

a person cannot be helped, no matter how many caring and well-intentioned people there are around. The anguished families of those who have died from drug addiction will tell you that.

This man may well have been selfish in life but the judgment you're making that any suicide "is and always will be the utmost in selfishness" and to think otherwise is "foolish" is too sweeping. It is also a self-centered viewpoint, all about what he "did" to you and others. And you're saying he should have been more like you--ie. mentally strong and able to take life's challenges--instead of accepting him as he was. Most therapists do not see suicide as resulting from typical character flaws. If that were true there should be a lot more suicides, as we all have flaws. It's a lot more complex than that.

[bleedingheart]

81. Suicide leaves behind a mess for the survivors

The person who kills him/herself hs no worries after they die. However they leave behind an emotional mess for their family. As my mother has said to me .."the dead have no worries".

My grandfather, worried about monetary problems, hung himself in the garage. His eldest daughter found him (she was about 12 at the time) and she was never quite right after that...dropped out of school and got pregnant young to a wife beater.

My grandmother was a mess, an immigrant with no education, she set about finding a husband..the only way to provide for her three girls. She married a "real provider"...and he proceed to molest the girls (my mom was one of them).

So the man who thought he would "help everyone out" by killing himself ended up making a huge mess for his family.

My brother tried twice to kill himself after coming to grips with his homosexuality. He wanted to die because he wasn't normal... Well lucky for us he failed at his attempts and we have him to this day and our family has accepted him lovingly... rather a gay son/brother/uncle than a dead one....

[Bridget Burke]

82. "Respect" is no as important as compassion.

There have been some people I have not particularly respected--but I still was sorry when they took themselves out.

Severe depression was the reason most of them died. I've had a few mood swings, but nothing on that level.

Relatives of suicides often feel guilty--they wonder what they could have done. So they call the ones who died "weak & selfish."

[Bluerthanblue]

95. thank you for that

and while i can't speak foranyone but myself, having struggled with suicidal ideation- for a long time, and having come close enough to know that the next time WILL be the last..... i can say, that as much as i tried to 'justify' my own personal guilt, which only increased my self-hatred, that the reality that i was hurting those who i so much do NOT want to hurt- wasn't something i didn't consider ALOT.... but at times, the agony of living screams way to loud for the 'compassionate' or 'responsible' 'me to hear- or silence.
i also know that people ...heal... they never stop grieving (i never have) but life goes on, and living with a person who is making life so difficult, and miserable for others (if only because they are suffering, and there is no way to 'help'), is not what alot of us want to be 'remembered for' either.
NO ONE can 'stop' a person if they have truly made up thier mind to kill themself. You can even take the thorns off the roses sent to the hospital (i kid you not,-they even went to that extreme, even had a birthday cake brought in by a dear friend, and the plastic bag was removed, the plate had to be styrophone, and no 'utensils' except a plastic spoon, which was ALSO removed as soon as the cake was 'cut')

Despite all this, there were plenty of 'lethal' means that could not be excluded- unless you put a person stark naked in an empty windowless, lightless room- and what would be the point of that.?

It is NEVER 'anyones fault' that someone takes their life by their own hand- NEVER. It is one of the very few 'acts' that a person makes based solely on their own behalf-

The anger people feel at being 'betrayed' or 'abandoned' or 'left behind' is very understandable, common, and no matter how many words are said to let folks know how sorry they are to let their loved ones down in such a sad, and selfish way, i couldn't expect the anger and hurt to be avoided, or prevented.

i've revealed far more than i'm .....comfortable with?....much that i'm ashamed of, and way to 'knowledgeable' about (my life)- but to those who have lost loved ones, i want you to know, at least from my perspective, hurting my friends and family DOES matter- and often it is one of the key things that helps keep the 'option' away.... but sometimes, when your drowning... or in such un-explainable, and unstoppable dispair and pain, the only words that come through are 'enough, just make it stop'- no hope of sleep, or no matter how loud you turn up the music, or how many drugs heavy tranks to settle the mind, can make it stop,...

i hope no one ever 'knows' this feeling-
i can't tell you in a zillion words, how much i wish that.-

there is so much more to say about this..... but it is not a 'good topic' for me to walk around in right now.....

peace to all- and my apologies for this stupid diatribe

[GreenPartyVoter]

83. Yes, though I wish they could have found a different way out of their

despair.

[Dakini23]

86. Suicide

My Father killed himself after a long bout with depression and then a possible reaction to newly prescribed anti-depressive medication. His therapist was a pill pusher and barely gave him any therapy. My father wasn't a selfish man at all. He had a sickness and was in alot of mental pain and torment. I wish he could have gotten the help he needed. He was doing better for awhile. He just one day, quietly took his own life. I feel no guilt for his actions. He made a choice. I wish he didn't, I miss him so much, but I never hated him for it or lost respect for him.

It has affected my Mom's life terribly. She suffers alot of guilt and has not been able to let him go. She blames him for leaving her.
I made peace with his death within months of his passing. My father and I were very close...he lives within my heart. Like I said before, he is at peace. I have a problem with people who get so angry and offensive when somebody takes their own lives. Yes, it is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, but unless you have been depressed....you don''t see the pain as temporary. It feels like it will go on forever. Friends and family can only do so much.
The suicidal person needs to want to get help, needs to open up and find a good counselor to help them express the torment they feel inside as well as sometimes take medicine to help with chemical imbalance, if that is the cause of the depression.

I felt like my dad couidn't express what he felt and his death was the ultimate form of self-expression. He was in such torment.

I think alot of Christians have a problem with suicide and death in general. I don't think "that religion" is a very comforting one. It seems to breed fear and ignorance. I don't see suicide as a sin.
I was raised Xtian and my mother still is a practicing Catholic.
I am an agnostic, but take comfort in alot of Buddhist philosophy and spirituality and that has helped with the way I view death and life in general.

[GreenPartyVoter]

87. I can't stand people who push the "suicides go straight to hell" meme

If anyone would have compassion for someone is so much despair, it would be "God".

I am very sorry you lost your father. :hug: I lost an uncle to suicide and my little brother threatened it on and off for years. (Thank God he didn't do it.)

It's a horrible thing to live with the aftermath and the what-ifs.

[Misskittycat]

94. My father also had unbearable depression and killed himself in 1970.

He was the bravest man I've ever known. He got all the help that was available in those days (medicine and therapy). Nothing worked. His depression lasted for several years without any letup. He tried to carry on the best he could.

In the immediate aftermath of yet another change in medication in May, 1970, during which he became even worse, he woke up one morning and started to drive around and ended up near a bridge. There was a witness apparently, who realized only too late what was happening. He or she said my father didn't look like he wanted to jump, but then just suddenly did it.

There hasn't been a single moment in the 35 years since that I have wished he hadn't done it, or that the witness was able to save him. (I only wish he could have had a quick, painless heart attack instead.) My mother (now deceased) and my sisters agree. He was in such unbearable pain that we couldn't stand watching him bear it for one moment longer. There was nothing on the market then that could have helped him, so saving him from that suicide attempt would have only subjected him to more agony.

I was only 19; I adored my father and miss him every day.

I know depresion. It is hereditary in my father's family. It's widespread over 4 generations on that side of my family. There's about a 50/50 chance of passing it along to children. All three of my father's daughters have it -- we didn't exactly beat the odds.

Needless to say, six months after my father's death, I became severely depressed for the first time. During that awful period, I understood much more fully how much agony my father was in for all those years. Although we were grieving horribly, and I was in a full-blown depression, I remained grateful that my father was mercifully released from his pain. I was only sorry he had to do it himself. I honestly can't believe how he waited so long.

If all of you out there were suddenly to become clinically depressed, after about 1/2 hour you would not be able to believe that a person could have to live with that kind of agony. Until you've been there, you can't possibly understand how awful it is, and even with a strong will to live, how much you want the pain to end.

For over 10 years -- in the 1970's -- I had recurring severe depressions. I, too, got all the help then available -- medicine and therapy. Luckily, after a few months in each major depressive period, the medications took effect, and I got some relief, although I continued to suffer from chronic minor depression as well as wintertime depression. The wintertime depression, now known as Seasonal Affective Disorder, was not identified by the psychiatric profession until the end of the 1970's, and is now treated with antidepressants and light therapy.)

During this period I managed to hold down a job and graduate from law school. I got married and led what looked like a normal life. (I lost a semester from both undergraduate and law school due to depression.) But it was hell; I have no idea how I got through it.

Finally, in late 1981 -- during yet another bout of major depression -- I learned that new research was showing that depression is a chemical imbalance. I was enormously relieved. I found a doctor who was participating in Prozac clinical trials (then called fluoxetine); Prozac was the first of this new generation of medicines tested, and the only one in trials at that time.

In early December, 1981, I was placed in a double-blind trial for 8 weeks: participants were randomly assigned fluoxetine, an older anti-depressant, or a placebo. Double-blind means the doctor does not know which of the three the patient is taking. My depression was getting more severe and was being compounded by the onset of the wintertime depression. I had moved to California and not yet taken the California bar exam, so I slugged through the bar review course in December and January (with an eye toward taking the late February bar exam) barely able to concentrate. I was clearly not improving. My doctor reassured me that he was almost certain I was on the placebo, that he was having amazing success with fluoxetine, and to try to stick it out until the 8 weeks was up. Immediately at the end of the 8 weeks, he put me on fluoxetine, and said it should take effect in about 10 days to 2 weeks. It was now early February, 1982 -just a few weeks before the bar exam.

In exactly 10 days, (while I continued to try to pretend to study for the bar exam), the drug worked and the depression lifted over the course of a few hours on the afternoon of the tenth day. It was nothing short of a miracle. It was like intense clouds parting and a bright sun coming out.

I had 2-1/2 weeks left before the bar exam. I was able to concentrate for 14-16 hours a day, and cram for the test. I took the bar exam -- and passed. The pass rate that February was only 31%.

I've been on fluoxetine/Prozac ever since (with the exception of brief periods when I've tried each new medicine as it comes on the market, but nothing has worked as well with as few side effects). My sisters and other relatives are also on Prozac; we should be eligible for a group discount.I'm alive because of this miracle drug. I doubt if I'd be alive today without it. I just couldn't have endured the recurring depressions over all these years.

My father wasn't so lucky. My only regret -- to this day -- is that effective treatment wasn't available for him in the late 1960's. Because of my own personal experience, I respect him even more for all the years he endured his pain with such grace and exhibited such a strong will to live. The day he died - May 23, 1970 - was the worst day of my life. But I knew he was finally at rest and at peace, and I loved him enough to be relieved and grateful he was no longer suffering.

Now I have to get back to my work deadline.

[iconoclastNYC]

85. Until we unlock the secrets of Depression and

eliminate the stigma of owning up to being clinically depressed I won't blame people for choosing to end thier pain. It's a horrible thing to do to the people you leave behind but living a life of hell will drive people to extremes.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

89. Someone very close to me committed suicide and, yes, I respect him

He was the son of a dear friend. He had been on parole for bank robbery and had fled the state back to Atlanta after violating parole. His life was always problematic for him and very problematic for others too.

At some point, he could not go on and in his communications prior to his death he indicated that the suicide was one more big pain for everyone but at least he would not be ongoingly causing situations for them to deal with.

Although he broke his mother's heart and his decision will pain her for the rest of her life...it's pretty clear he just wanted to end the cycle of destruction his life had been for him and others.

I can't imagine the guts it took to put a rifle in his mouth and pull the trigger with his toe.

[Squatch]

92. Never quit

ever.

[amazona]

93. yes, I respect her decision

I say "her" because all of the suicides I knew well were young women. Only they knew the amount of pain they were going through and whether it was worth it to them to continue to fight. Of course we grieved, but it is not fair to hold them to earth when they are in such pain and they have already tried all of the available remedies. As you may know, some forms of clinical depression do not respond to medication or other therapy. The two young ladies I'm thinking of in particular -- they tried EVERYTHING before giving up hope of life without mental pain. There is no dishonor in losing a fight if you give it your best shot.

I also respect the decision of the older people I know who choose suicide, I think in every case it was for a good medical reason. I would want the option of suicide for myself if I had no chance of getting better.

[girl gone mad]

97. I had a friend who committed suicide in high school.

Actually, several friends and acquaintances committed or attempted suicide during my school years. There was a highly publicized epidemic in my city. But this one in particular stands out to me, both because we were close and because it came as such a complete shock when i was told the next day by a mutual friend.

To this day, I just don't understand why he did it. I'm still heartbroken and haunted by the whole affair.

Did it diminish my respect for him? Not at all, though since having a child, I began to empathize with his mother in a way that I hadn't before.

The way I see it, he was young and naive. If he had mental illness or emotional problems, he kept them well hidden. Most people who committ suicide do so because of mental illness and depression, so who am I to judge if I haven't walked in their shoes?

[Misunderestimator]

100. Someone I dated once in college committed suicide over the...

summer before our senior year. Yes, I still respect him.

[progmom]

101. Yes.

I have lost a friend to suicide.
I have come close to losing family.
My respect for these people does not change.

[leesa]

102. Like anything, it depends on the circumstances. If Cheney committed

suicide right now, for instance, I would not respect him, I would think he's a coward trying to avoid his earned punishment. If someone committed suicide rather than betray a friend or country, I would respect them.