One thing that impresses me about Clark:

[poskonig]

I haven't seen the debate yet, but found this quote on MSN:

"Clark, who has only just begun sketching out a domestic agenda, said he was determined to attack the ballooning federal deficit. He said he was prepared to “put all government programs on the table, including the military programs.”

This is exactly what we need at the federal level. Besides Kucinich, Clark is the only viable candidate who can say this, but more importantly, get it done.

[chimpymustgo]

1. I find myself smiling when I hear Clark talk. Same with Edwards.

There's a nice optimism to both those guys. They'd make a helluva ticket.

[VolcanoJen]

6. I love it! My dream ticket!!

Clark/Edwards, Edwards/Clark. I love it.

Johnny is great, isn't he? And he shone like a rising star today. I still insist he's the dark horse in all of this, and won't really begin to emerge as such until after South Carolina.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

10. Gimme Credit, JenJen

You heard it from me first! ;-)

DTH

[VolcanoJen]

12. I'll give you both credit. :-)

I prefer Clark/Edwards, but if Johnny-boy is on the ticket, I'll be one happy camper to see his smart, handsome mug on my telly every evening.

:-)
"JenJen"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. If Edwards Had Clark's Bars He'd Be A Shoo In

and if Clark had Edwards' poise and demeanor he'd be a shoo in...


Ahhhhhhhh


Building the better candidate is challenging...

[StephNW4Clark]

2. More info

I'm searching for the quote, but he said specifically look at inefficiencies in the armed forces budget, esp. Air Force.

[Donna Zen]

30. Air Force

Yes_I think it was in the Indiana release from yesterday or day before. I wish the campaign would reinstate digitalclark or at least a page of transcripts. Too risky?

I remember the quote because I was thinking of the latest boondoggle leased transports now making its way through congress. He also said that the issue of gays serving in the military doesn't come up in the Army because they are always stretched...then he went on to say (paraphrasing) the issue comes up in Navy and Airforce because they have too much $$$ and time. So, are we surprised that Gen. Myers sends out Shelton to do a hit?

Finally on this subject, I vaguely remember a flurry about Clark wanting to combine some parts of the services in a unified military command scheme which would save mucho, mucho dineros.

[Pepperbelly]

3. what Wesley can do ...

is cut the DOD because of his credentials. I don't think many others could get away with it politically.

But more importantly, on the practical level, Wesley knows how it works. He has said as much, noting that the whole culture of DOD is geared toward developing wants, not really determining what is needed. And he is right. That is what we have to get a handle on. No one would cut defense spending to the point that our nation's security would be compromised but ... BUT, I bet that at least 20% of the budget could be cut without hurting the nation's security a damned bit.

Might even improve it.

[sfecap]

5. I didn't know that the DOD budget was at the pleasure of the President...

He's got to get it through Congress first. That's a tall order for any President.

But there's no doubt, he'd be listened to.

[morningglory]

11. Well, after another year of devastation by Shithead* , I think

congress will have to listen to some dang body about our budget. Having been laid off due to Monkey Boy and his GOP policies, after many years of paying into health insurance packages, and paying taxes, a lot of them, with pride and joy that I could help my country, now I have been on unemployment and that has run out. I am applying for the lowliest jobs that I could mentally tolerate, low wage jobs. Is everyone aware that since the huge tax breaks there are 3-10 million of us who used to pay big taxes and now are a drain on society, and will be paying no taxes? Billions of lost revenues. We are not shopping at the Wally World, no sales taxes to keep our states running. A spiraling vortex of god-awful horror, and no graven image of the 10 commandments to keep us from coveting our neighbors' wives. What else is there to do but work our butts off for the Democratic nominee?

[Donna Zen]

34. There are several budgets

including the one that emerges from the Wes Wing. I think that is the first...and all other requests flow from that. And that was Clark's old job, assistant to the head of the OMB.

The only way anyone is going to be able to govern in a Dem WH (repubs just borrow it from our great-grand kids) is to find some money. The money that is least productive from an economic stand point, and could be catagorized as true waste, is in the military budget. While I've always held this opinion, Clark's second proves the point.

[Pepperbelly]

40. it always starts with the ...

Prez.

And Congress will do as it wishes.

It would still be refreshing to not have the Generals groveling for a few extra bucks for the Carlyle Groups and Halliburtons of the world.

[SweetZombieJesus]

13. So it's a "Only Nixon can go to China" sort of thing?

It'd be a nice advantage to have, but unless you Clarkies start organizing an offensive against the sliming your guy has been getting the way we Deanies have for Howard, the SCLM will Gore him like nobody's business.

I really want to believe a guy who's a lifelong member of the military-industrial complex is exactly the guy who can keep it in check and undo the damage done by the Chickenhawk Brigade, but I'm skeptical still.

From what little I saw of the live airing, Wes didn't look so hot, and I do want him to do better. I'll catch the replay in an hour and see what I think then.

I only saw Lieberman respond to two questions, but I'll say it again: he needs to drop the fuck out. WEAKEST CANDIDATE EVER.

[private_ryan]

4. he's the ONLY one who can say that

any other dem would be ripped to shreds.

[Pastiche423]

7. Bullshit

Every other candidate has just as much a chance as he does.

[JVS]

15. that is not true

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/special/president/issues/index.defense.html

Kucinich wants to "Cut spending 15 percent, including NMD, F22s and V22s"

He hasn't been ripped to shreds one bit.

[poskonig]

16. Keep in mind, no one is throwing ammo at Kucinich.

If he were higher in the polls, we'd see "weak on defense" charges from at least Lieberman.

[JVS]

18. If they threw ammo at him he would blast them back

[private_ryan]

29. why shoudl the repukes bother with Denis???????

he's not going anywhere....

[morningglory]

8. For those of you under 50, Eisenhower said

our greatest enemy must be the Military Industrial Complex. It was a warning. Must read: Boyd.

[Dr Fate]

9. I really enjoyed hearing from our candidates today...

...and great points about Dennis & Wes...

[JVS]

14. According to the CNN website Clark is actually considering expanding...

the military.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/special/president/issues/index.defense.html

[Pepperbelly]

19. actually ... i think that you ...

could do both.

Troops aren't what cost the big bucks. Not at all.

[JVS]

21. maybe

He also want to give them a raise, which is good.

[Pastiche423]

22. Why would we need more troops?

For more wars?

[Pepperbelly]

24. Right now ...

we have chaos in Iraq, 130K troops there, and no one with which we can relieve them. I understand that they should be brought home. At the same time, we have seen the absolute limit of our power without resorting to unconventional weaponry and frankly, I do not know that it is sufficient.

I don't know that we would have enough if we were to need them. At least not on any sustained basis.

[JVS]

25. Is that just your opinion or does Clark also think that the occupation...

should continue? Does he have an exit strategy for Iraq?

[Pepperbelly]

26. that's just my opinion.

I am the only one I can speak for.

But yes, Clark does have an exit strategy. It has been posted here time after time.

on edit: btw, what exit strategy satisfies you? What are the elements?

[JVS]

27. never saw it, would you mind giving me a link?

Or just telling me a little

[Pepperbelly]

32. ok

"So, what we have to do is I think, number one: establish legitimacy. For some reason, we fought the UN full endorsement of this mission and the full engagement of the United Nations. For the life of me, I don’t know why. The same people who fought the UN were telling me five years ago – all they could talk about was “burden-sharing, burden-sharing, burden-sharing,” “mission creep, mission creep, mission creep,” “exit strategy, exit strategy.” And somehow, all that disappeared and I don’t understand it. So, I’d go first to the United Nations. I’d say, “Look, we know you don’t have a security force. We’ll finish the job, we’ll work for security. We want you to come in and we want you to really help us work the reconstruction and the redevelopment of Iraq.” There’s political redevelopment to be done, there is economic reconstruction to be done. And, there’s a whole new climate in the Middle East to be created. Legitimacy is job number one. The second is the creation of public order over there. As soon as you can turn those responsibilities over to elements that speak Arabic and preferably Iraqis the better you are. The third thing is, stay engaged in the region and work for peace as an effective intermediary between the contending parties in the Middle East so we don’t attract more anger and more hostility in the region. But you know, my fourth point is, we’re there. This is a difficult situation. It’s going on on three levels: the resistance you see today, the ordinary life of the people in Baghdad and down below that something we’re not quite sure of, which is a sort of level three, subterranean forming up of Iranian dissidents coming in and organizations from Syria. We just don’t know where that’s going to go. We can influence it if we’ll work for legitimacy through international institutions, move the problem over to the Arabic-speaking and the Iraqis, and stay engaged as a constructive force in the region."

From a speech given to NDN...

http://www.women4clark.com/transcripts/ndnspeech.htm

on edit: btw, the answer was given extemporaneously from a question posed by the audience.

[JVS]

33. Thank you.

[Bread and Circus]

20. Clark has indicated he might decrease the air force budget

Maybe this would mean he would axe Star Wars, thank
god....

I have read a lot about Clark. I could see him being
pro-soldier but I think he would probably reduce some of
the "fantasy" technologies Bush has practically sold our
souls for.

We will have to see.

[Pepperbelly]

23. General Shelton is air force ...

I wonder if that could be behind some of the personal animus between the two.

[neverforget]

36. General Shelton is Army. He came from the Special Forces.

[Pepperbelly]

37. you are probably right ...

I googled 'general shelton' and this is what came up first. I didn't even see that it was Myers.

http://www.dtic.mil/jcs/core/chairman.html

I went back and searched 'general hugh shelton' biography and got this:

http://www.kepplerassociates.com/speakers/sheltonhugh.asp?1

[Donna Zen]

35. in the Seton Hall speech

he alludes to star wars. He says it cannot protect us...

They will want an ocean shield and a missile shield, and a society far less open than it was before.

Others will argue, and in my view correctly, that our security depends more on building windows and bridges to the outside world than in building walls.  They will suggest that in the new millennium our best security lies in reinforcing others around the world that share our values, rather than shutting ourselves off from them. They will suggest that national security is far broader than national defense, and they will argue that what is ultimately a conflict of ideas and ideals cannot be won by bombs and bullets alone, but must include commitments to human rights and democratic norms.

BTW, this speech is from 5/02

[Starpass]

28. Okay, raise of hands

How many of you in a job could have written a paper and told the higher ups what waste, inefficiency and dead heads could be cut and get the operation moving better??? That's what he brings. He not only KNOWS--who the hell in Congress is going to say "you don't know what the hell you're talking about??"--an ignorant chickenhawk, perhaps??? They would destroy anyone else and keep dishing the money to their favorite pork barrel projects.
They couldn't dismiss Clark--and I'll bet a whole bunch of overblown corrupt bastards could be shown the door to the Pentagon. Could you see these Congressmen as Wes describes every nut and bolt on a peice of machinery and tells them it is not needed and that the pork barrel legislation to keep the plant that is manufacturing the useless pieces of shit in their state is a uselss suck on the budget??----and, oh, how many southern states who hate the government would have to eat it and dispand their pork barrel make work projects???

[CWebster]

31. Yeah?

Like what are the other programs?

And what is his position on Israel?

[Donna Zen]

39. His position on the ME

is one of my favorites.

First he moves the question from terrorism v state to one of the Palestians trying to achieve a political goal, statehood, through the use of armed conflict. Isreal does not accept the Palestian means to this goal. Thus, the Palestians have chosen a policy that is a failed policy.

He then goes to say that the Palestians must be offered a policy that can work. Two, Israel must "restrain" itself.

Moreover, while any peace talks will continue to be "on again, off again" because of the forces that want to continue the current stalemate, a new regional diplomatic body needs to be formed that is broader than just the US, Palestine, and Israel. This construct would include the above 3 and the neighboring states of, at a minimum, Egypt and Jordan, and be charged with the development of policy to meet the problems that exist or may arise. This new organization is not there to reach a final agreement or sign documents, but to present a continuous forum that is unaffected by every car bomb or missile launch. Clark says because we have leverage, we can initiate and encourage this diplomatic tool that will keep the parties talking. He views the starting and stopping of talks as both inevitable and counter productive to peace. The idea being that when the parties return to the table, the main work of sorting through differences will find options readily available thus easing the way and damping down the tensions.

Note: I think this is from a radio interview, but I will look around for a link.

[Julien Sorel]

41. I'd like to see more of this.

It looks like intentionally vague campaign speak. I've seen things that make me think he understands what's going on there, but also some pro-Israel stuff. What I'm picking up on here is that he sees this 'Roadmap,' or gradualism stuff as the complete bullshit it is, because the approach he's hinting at suggests a regional solution, which would make the gradualist approach -- which is really just an excuse to extend the status quo -- more difficult to unilaterally insist upon by Israel. Israel weaseled out of a commitment to Palestinian autonomy that was in the Egypt-Israel Camp David agreement; getting Egypt and Jordan back involved gives the pals some heavier-hitting friends at the table.

But I want to see details. Of all the candidates I think Clark, because of his Jewish roots and relationships, has the best chance of playing Carter and getting peace done there, but I don't know what kind of commitment he has to get it done.

[MIMStigator]

42. strong on ME n/t

n/t

[childslibrarian]

38. Edwards won that debate

I'm a Clark person but I felt that Sharpton and Edwards had the most energy.