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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:12 PM
Original message
I hope that at least some folks here..
.... will consider the possibility that this was actually an Al-Quaida attack.

Not Rove, not the CIA, not MI6, not planned for this political result or that distraction.

Just Al-Quaida doing what they have always said they would do. And of course their leader and shining light is still running the show, so why not?

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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Some of us have.
But we tend to get drowned out in the clamor.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. i think it was an Al-quaeda like group that did it
and i think that the war in Iraq will have very harsh consequences for the countries that supported it. IMO there is no way that this isn't iraq related-retaliation.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. oh, sure!
it is very posible... but i won't rule out anything or anyone at this point. who are we to believe? those who have been lying to us all along? i think not. if they told me the sky was blue, i'd bet every cent i had that it was purple with green spots that day.
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I also allow for a strong possiblity there is a link between
bushco and OSB - not OSB's followers though. OSB do seem to feed off each other and do things that help the other to get more power at just the right time.
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. As long as you consider that Al Qaeda is actually Free Masonry
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
43. and the Illuminati.
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paula777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. Al-Quida Europe has already claimed responsibility
Group lays claim to London blasts
'Al Qaeda in Europe' warns other nations

LONDON, England (CNN) -- A previously unknown group calling itself the "Secret Organization group al Qaeda Organization in Europe" released a statement Thursday claiming responsibility for the subway and bus bombings in London earlier in the day.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07/explosions.c ...


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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. i could call them and say...
i am with such and such group and claim responsibility. i see no rush to believe the first reports... they are changing already... yes, israel was warned; no, israel was not warned... yada yada yada
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paula777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Fair enough. Bet they'll be blamed / credited regardless of the truth
though
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. yep
it's already started and the sheeple are no doubt already swallowing this spin whole.

we need to put white hats on all the good guys so we can tell them apart from the bad guys.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Right.
I forgot.

Anybody who doesn't believe in the conspiracy theory du jour is either "sheeple" or "in on it".
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #39
52. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #52
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #58
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
50. AHA! THE SMOKING GUN!
Der Spiegel reports previously unknown group has published an after-the-crime confession on an unspecified Internet page!

Screenshot at 11!

So now we know how we know "Al-Qaeda" did it: you read it on an Internet page.

Or, rather, someone read it on an Internet page and told you they did.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Not necessarily Al Queda
Could be IRA, or some other terrorist group.

But definitely a terrorist attack, IMO.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Definitely not IRA.
There is zero chance of that. It is either al Queda proper, or an off-shoot.
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Geoff R. Casavant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. Al Qaeda
I expect the name is not trademarked, so any organization is free to call itself Al Qaeda, or Al Qaeda in Europe, or Al Qaeda of Flatbush, and it doesn't necessarily indicate an actual connection or relationship.

I doubt this is any type of conspiracy by anyone to drive up poll numbers or anything like that.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
41. why zero chance of IRA attack???????
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. IRA always gives warnings. They are on cease fire. IRA ...
bombings are done to try to minimize civilian casualties and I think sometime this month PIRA will formally announce it is disbanding.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. thank you very much for this information
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. Not necessarily Al Queda
Could be IRA, or some other terrorist group.

But definitely a terrorist attack, IMO.
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hermetic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. The BBC seems to think so
"The BBC has located an Islamist website that has published a 200-word statement issued by an organisation saying it carried out the London bombings.
The organisation calls itself the Secret Organisation Group of al-Qaeda of Jihad Organisation in Europe."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4660391.stm

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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. of course, at least for me
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thank you. n/t
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. I have no doubt it was Al-Quaida.
Completely predictable too.
Terrorism will rise, not decrease as
long as the neocons are allowed to
continue their agenda for military global
and economic hegemony and dominance.
BHN
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. Deleted message
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well, quite frankly I'm considering all possibilities
Granted, this attack was claimed by some new splinter Al Qaeda group, but hell, anybody can claim anything.

I will wait and see what the evidence brings. It could be Al Qaeda, it could be a MIHOP situation, we simply don't know right now, and probably won't know for awhile.

What is important right now is how is Bushco going to spin this tragedy. Last time, he spun 911 right into an illegal, immoral war. What is he going to spin this into, an Iranian invasion.

Don't get me wrong, this is a tragedy, no doubt. But this was completely forseeable. Terrorism is THE way that the small and oppressed fight their wars against the large and powerful. This is a countstrike in the illegal, immoral war that we started. I'm suprised that we haven't had more.

But any judgement on who did this act, at least for me, is going to have to wait until I see more evidence one way or the other.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. ew! i'm sick!
i just had a sick thought... an idea for a comedy sketch ala crank callers... bush and rove and cheney all huddled around a phone wearing hip hop wear... and bush is speaking in a way phoney middle-eastern/texan accent... says he's with 'al kayda' and they are responsible... holds hand over receiver mouthpiece and chuckles... sassy comments... yada yada yada....

i must really be in denial for my mind to automatically go into comedy sketch mode... jeez.
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
54. Me too. But I have to say
it's another timely tragedy for Bush. Another trifecta.
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WI Independent Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. Can you name a time in the last few...
months... no years... that wouldn't have been a timely distraction for Bush?

That's the problem... ANYTIME there is an attack it will coencide with SOMETHING illegal, immoral, or improper this administration is taking heat about.

Islamic fundamentalist have killed in this fashion for many, many years. They were here long before Bush... and unfortunately will be here long after.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. Well, there is the possibility
that Al Qaida and Bushco are not mutually exclusive.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Bingo. n/t
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. yikes!
you said it out loud!

woe are we, this really could be.
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. This is painful
but we're all going to have to acknowledge that Al Queda attacks are with us...for our lifetime. They're not going away. Al Queda is all over the world. Not just in the Middle East.
We want there to be a finite number...who we "smoke out" and then it's over. We win. We're very linear. And goal oriented.
And impatient.
But these are people committed to a cause we don't understand. And, more of these attacks will follow.
The Bush Admin. has encouraged us to think this is a "slam dunk" that just takes a little time. And not much sacrifice. And please don't show the coffins of our young men and women coming back from Iraq.
They've misrepresented from the very beginning. They've lied.
We're up against an ideology. And the Bushies have added personal greed into the mix. Why shouldn't Halliburton make billions while we say we're bringing freedom to the Middle East?
It's time for us to have leaders who will tell us the cold, hard facts. And put aside corporate colonization of foreign countries.
We're not children. Quit telling us these fairytales.
People are dying.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. WELL SAID.
"Quit telling us these fairytales."
Thank you.
Good advice all around, I'd say.
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eissa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
20. I do blame Al-Qaeda
Although I would not be surprised at the possible complacency of certain governments.

Having said that, I still remain firm that bush is to blame for any and all terrorist attacks -- it's called blowback and it's a direct result of his administration's short-sighted, simple-minded policies.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
21. Of course!
I leave collusion open..but everything that the neo-con cabal has done has led to this day. Tortures..war on lies..endless "collateral damage" of civilians..doing nothing to work with Muslim leaders around the world..doing nothing to solve the middle east problem..nothing but propaganda and rhetoric. And of course what they want is endless war..the "war on terror" can never end as long as those that commit terror are being fueled by our policies.

And all that said..I still think the terrorists are the scum of the earth and still put NOTHING past Bushco.

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Talismom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. ...and I would hope that you would consider the fact that
this band of war profiteering thugs running our country are capable of crimes as violent and horrible as those perpertrated by any extremist terrorists around. I believe them to be totally ruthless and profit driven and they scare the hell out of me!
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. I would hope people would be able to consider that as well
the band of thugs whom you refer to have done far far worse than this London attack to people in Iraq and elsewhere. They don't seem to care how many of us will die in uniform advancing their narrow aims. "12 years" is apparently not too long to send Americans to die in their wars for geopolitical dominance and resource grabbing. They can say it with a straight face in front of news cameras.

Is it really beyond such people to target civilians here at home? I don't know that they have done this (recently) but in view of their remorseless natures and callous open-ended budgeting of American lives, it doesn't seem impossible as a "legitmate" means to further their disgusting ends.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
27. Al-Quaida must be laughing their asses off
over there in Afghanistan. Osama bin Forgotten rides again.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
28. Sure. But what I want to know is, was bin Laden EVER taken off
the CIA payroll?
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
29. I just do not know who did it. Does anyone other than the perpetrators,..
,...know at this time?

But, I want to know who and want them charged, tried, convicted and sentenced forfrigginever!!!
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spuddonna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
31. Well, that would be rational, reasonable...
But I think people are so conditioned by all the other crimes that this administration has gotten away with, that the automatic assumption is, "Why/how did they do this, and what are they trying to distract from?"

If this is an Al-Qaeda attack, I won't be surprised. The war in Iraq is fueling hatred throughout the Middle East toward all the 'Coalition Countries' ('Don't fergit Poland!'). The breeding ground that Iraq has become for terrorism has laid the foundations for the next series of 9-11's...

I definitely agree that this administration wants the populace to live in fear of terrorist attacks. But one of the things that scares me is that their strategy is working too well... The Bush team created a 'New Pearl Harbor' to scare the American public into submission and support of their policies. But now they've actually grown the 'New Axis Army' to go with it!

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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
34. There are many people who would like to take out the U.S., Britain, etc.
Al-Quaida is only one such organization.

I just want to be secure in knowing that the leaders (and their advisors) of these countries are doing the right things in preventing and protecting their people against such threats and actions.

So far, and this is a best-case scenario, those leaders have knowingly or incompetently enabled these tragedies by their actions (or lack of action).

Among those ill-considered actions was making war in Middle East, killing tens of thousands of civilians, and becoming entangled with a people who know how to live by the feud. Tragically, the repercussions of that blunder may never end.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
35. I have, this was AQ
the lesson of 9.11 we don't know the enemy and there is no interest in learning who the enemy is
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
36. I don't know who did it.
But I will be dubious of any evidence presented by Bush or Blair- all things considered - those 2 do tend to lie about "intelligence" and "information"

I heard a spokesperson for Scotland Yard say the blasts will be investigated like any other criminal act.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. Do you ever giggle
watching folks jump on this Al-Q bandwagon like it's a structural mirror image of Enron, Halliburton, Worldcom or something? :rofl: :evilgrin: :rofl:
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Nah. I mostly get disgusted
We are lied to so much we either jump at anything even half-way plausible or go the other way and believe the absolute worse. Though considering the players, the worse is usually a safe bet.

I'm just tired of the lies. The people of the world are constantly being manipulated. Bombs are a form of manipulation. Death aand destruction are manipulation. Sometimes it's impposible remembering there's anything good about life. I don't think there's anything good about the current government paradigm(the world over). I do think it's possible for government to be good - but that has rarely been the case in my 41 one years. A government that lies is worthless to the people. Scratch a liar catch a thief and all that...


Now, if I'm that disgusted - how do the people feel who are doing the dying? I can't imagine their lives. Tears are pointless but it's all I have to offer them. My chest feels like it's being crushed and I want to scream....but none of that can help those dying. I want the people of the world to join together and say enough is enough already...and end the rule by the greedy and corrupt. But that's not going to happen.

My scariest dream? To be clueless. To escape into some halcyon dream and never see the world as it is again. Scary because it's so inviting.




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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
37. I don't understand, what do they have to gain by this?
Absolutely nothing. But they lose a great deal.

Are these people really that stupid? So stupid that they think that killing innocent people is going to somehow help their cause?

So they just hate us for our freedom?
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
38. There will be some people who won't be able to do that
because according to them, Bush, Rove, et. al are the only evil people in the world.

There are no other dictators or terrorists in the world except for Bush and his people.

That kind of thinking is dangerous, cultlike and simply bears no relationship to reality.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
40. Easily.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
42. I ASSUME it was Al-Q*
Or in any case a group acting in sympathy with Al-Q*

But I am willing to keep an open mind about it. Unless it was the IRA however, (and I doubt it because so far as I know they always promptly claim responsibility) and unless it was perpetrated by someone else for reasons having nothing to do with Britain's thousands of troops carrying guns and driving tanks around in a region of the world WHERE THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS TO BE, then the responsible party is and must be Tony Blair.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
45. agreed Occam's razor
I don't seriously doubt it was Al Qaeda, although I'll be the first to apologize if other evidence is found.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
48. And, Likewise, May All Dittoheads Consider Leftists Didn't Do It n/t
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ICantBelieve Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
51. I think it was probably al Qaeda...
I've said that all along. There are other possibilities, of course. We won't know for sure for a while, I think. Remember Oklahoma City. We all thought that was Islamic extremists at first.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
55. I think it will be difficult
to know who did it. I guess there are always clues to be found - but it seems that there will be far fewer than with 9/11.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
56. I consider it to be nobody but Al-Quaida
Thanks to Bush and Blair recruiting efforts with the attack on Iraq for Al-quaida they are now going stronger than ever. Bush and Blair did their best to make these things happen. Now that they are happening we act surprised. Why?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
57. You're right. It's not as if anyone we know would lie or anything! n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:50 PM
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