On the terrorist bombings in London

[Skinner]

The administrators of Democratic Underground would like to extend our condolences to the victims of the terrorist bombings in London today, and to their families, and to all of the citizens of the United Kingdom.

We also wish to express our sympathy to the members of our own community from the UK. While this website is devoted primarily to American politics, Democratic Underground has a number of members from the UK, including one of our administrators, EarlG, who grew up in England and is still a British citizen. (Earl was not from London himself, but he does have friends in London. Thankfully they are okay.)

Today's attacks were a terrible human tragedy, a cowardly attack against innocent civilians. At the moment, there is still a great deal of confusion about what happened or who is responsible. Regardless of who is responsible, and regardless of where we all stand on the so-called "War Against Terror," I think reasonable people all agree that attacks on innocent civilians are outrageous and disgraceful.

We also hope that leaders of the world, including the leaders of our own country, will have the wisdom to respond in a manner that makes this kind of act less likely in the future. On days like today it may seem a distant and unattainable dream, but we hope that someday we can live in a world where this type of senseless violence is a thing of the past. We believe that the policies of the current administration have not made us safer, and it is well past time that they ask themselves if our country's current course of action is having the desired effect.

This is a big story and it is going to dominate discussions here for a while. Understandably, things are a little chaotic on DU today as is often the case whenever a big story breaks. I want to thank all of you for your patience and understanding during this confusing time. Rest assured that the moderators are online, and they are working very hard today to keep things on track. Please remember that their job is not easy, and it is especially difficult on days like to day.

Skinner
DU Admin

[wicket]

1. Amen

[CatWoman]

2. a big hug for EarlG

[WillyT]

22. And Another One... For EarlG, His Friends, His Country, And All Of Us !!!

[Ediacara]

29. and another

[Hissyspit]

3. Well said, skinner.

[myrna minx]

4. Thanks Skinner.

[cynatnite]

5. Well said, Skinner! n/t

[Coventina]

6. Thanks to you Skinner, the admins & the mods

I would like to tell you that DU is especially important on days like today.

Very glad to hear EarlG's friends are okay.

I stand with Skinner and everything he said.

[uppityperson]

7. Agreed, heartfelt sympathy

thank you Skinner and moderators

[i miss america]

8. Thank you

[Double T]

9. All the moderators do a great job

Your time and effort is greatly appreciated by ALL!!

[Taxloss]

10. Thank you Skinner.

That means a lot. DU's response has been truly heartwarming.

[Jack Rabbit]

11. Thank you, Skinner. A personal note, if I may

My eldest stepdaughter is at Oxford this week presenting a paper on web design and technology. She has contacted her husband and two daughters to let them know she is safe; her husband in turn contacted my wife, who let me know about half an hour ago.

She was to be in London tomorrow. The conference sponsors are trying to find a way to get her home.

My network connection was down this morning, so I am only now finding out about this tragic event.

[psychopomp]

12. Change "believe" to "know"

Thanks for the good work, DU staff!

[paula777]

13. Someone w/ more talent than I should turn this post into lyrics

to a song. Just really heart-fealt and beautiful.

edit - typo of course - why use spell check when you can fn edit every post

[UrbScotty]

14. Thank you.

[bloom]

15. I hope the moderators are not becoming

the gatekeepers of information and the judges of whether a story is legitimate or not based on something "discredited" by the MSM.

That would be messed up.

Since most people here do not presume what the MSM says is altogether true anyway.


That is what seems to be happening to some threads though.

[kevsand]

74. I share your concern.

I never thought I would see the day when DU kills threads because they question the Associated Press. This is obviously a difficult and troubling time, and I am glad not to be a moderator on such a day.

As alway happens with an event like this, there have been a large number of mistakes in the coverage by many media outlets. I think it is probably premature for anyone to definitively say at this point that anything has been clearly refuted.

[bigtree]

16. you have great gravitas, sir

I'm inspired by your words of hope for peace and your call for accountability.

"We also hope that leaders of the world, including the leaders of our own country, will have the wisdom to respond in a manner that makes this kind of act less likely in the future. On days like today it may seem a distant and unattainable dream, but we hope that someday we can live in a world where this type of senseless violence is a thing of the past. We believe that the policies of the current administration have not made us safer, and it is well past time that they ask themselves if our country's current course of action is having the desired effect."

Thanks for this.

[crispini]

17. Thank you, Skinner!

good job!

[AFSCME girl]

18. Thank you Skinner and mods...

you are the best!

AFSCME girl

[Pert_UK]

19. Thanks for the good wishes, Skinner...I intend visiting London tomorrow

The British people will not be terrorised by a tiny group of hypocritical, cowardly, immoral murderers.

P.

[graywarrior]

20. !

[democrank]

21. Thanks, Skinner.

But in the mud and scum of things
there always, always something sings.

R. W. Emerson

[Just Me]

23. I am grateful to you and the mods.

I feel terrible for those innocent people whose security has been further endangered by a foreign policy that is clearly a failure.

In spite of the obstacles, I still believe we can do better in stomping out terrorizing tactics and in establishing a more secure and peaceful environment for all people.

[DinahMoeHum]

24. Thanks, pal. Tell EarlG and our other friends "across the pond"

we're thinking of them in this difficult time.

[proud patriot]

25. Thanks Skinner

My heartfelt condolences to All .

May the world find peace and stabilty .

[Zorbuddha]

26. Very well put.

I've got to hand it to you Skinner, this is a delicate matter and you have handled it with considerable grace and eloquence. This paragraph is an especially well stated and concise summation:

We also hope that leaders of the world, including the leaders of our own country, will have the wisdom to respond in a manner that makes this kind of act less likely in the future. On days like today it may seem a distant and unattainable dream, but we hope that someday we can live in a world where this type of senseless violence is a thing of the past. We believe that the policies of the current administration have not made us safer, and it is well past time that they ask themselves if our country's current course of action is having the desired effect.

Kudos and gratitude.

[Cassandra]

27. Thanks, Skinner

[LaurenG]

28. Thank you for speaking for us, well done. nt

[Walt Starr]

30. Thank you, Skinner

I've changed my Avatar as you have to show solidarity for our British brethren.

[mom cat]

31. And another big hug for the people of Iraq who face this every day.

[AFSCME girl]

34. Amen to that, mom cat

[janetle]

32. Did anyone else hear John McCain on MSNBC?

He outraged me because he said that maybe now the British people (apart from Tony Blair) will be more supportive of OUR war on terror. And he went on to say that now more than ever we must prevail in Iraq and that all Americans should not only support the troops there but support U.S. policies as well.

Here we go again--if you are not with this administration then you must be on the side of the terrorists. I can't stand it.

[Amonester]

35. McCain said that

maybe now...

We say the British people aren't that easily fooled to believe such a neocons' incompetent hubris.

I say maybe we shall see the real answer soon.

About the OP: keep it up!

[mom cat]

62. The blood is still dripping and McCain is looking to score points!

We need to hit back hard on all of these brutally insensitive comments which dishonor the dead and wounded on the very day of the attack!

[roguevalley]

33. Its impossible to say how much sorrow I feel for the English people

and my favorite city in the entire world, London. Please accept condolences from my family. I am so with you today.

[liberalismresurgent]

68. Did you offer condolences to the Pakistanis?

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/06/14/...

[Renew Deal]

36. You guys rock

as expected.

[ms liberty]

37. Thanks Skinner, all the Mods, and DU...

Imagine all the people
Living life at peace
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you will join us
And the world will live as one

[Totally Committed]

38. Skinner...

That is a wonderful statement. Thanks for writing it.

My condolences as well to all who read here from the UK. My heart is with you all at this time.

TC

[Norwood]

39. Very well said skinner

My condolensces to the people in the UK as well.

As far as what McCain said, I didnt hear his comments myself but they are indeed quite offensive. Congrats to the (R) for using another tragedy for political ends. Its sad....

[fberknm]

53. We have to look forward

As my sig file says, hypocrisy IS only a matter of perspective. It lies on both sides of issues, and is unseen by those most blindly practicing it. Before we all accuse the R's of using this event for political means, read Skinner's statement again. Perhaps I am the only one who felt that DU was making political hay.

"We believe that the policies of the current administration have not made us safer, and it is well past time that they ask themselves if our country's current course of action is having the desired effect."

How one can find politicizing in McCain's statement and not in Skinner's certainly seems challenging. As I see it, both can be accused of exploiting the event to forward their own cause.

One can only wonder, given the British announcement that they were pulling troops out of Iraq, how we can impose reason into the thoughts and minds of terrorists.

I am opposed to our policies in Iraq because I tend toward isolationist positions, I simply do not care what happens in Iraq, I care what happens in the US. However if additional attacks, like those in Spain, are the result of a position or action in Iraq, then why attack when the government said they were pulling troops out?

The answer is that there is no answer, because there is no reason in the mind of a terrorist. The references in the Quran to the Crusades and the European infidels' invasion of (what is now called) the Middle East are still taught as a reason to hate. This was 1000 years ago, yet the memory lingers. That seems unreasonable, at least to me.

I tend to buy into the rather obvious theory that it is the attention paid to the G-8 summit that attracted the terrorists. However, statements following every event inferring W's responsibility are not helpful. Whether or not W has made the world safer is of no real consequence here. These types of attacks happened before W, they will happen when W is gone.

I realize that DU is a forum for pretty strong progressives, and perhaps I do not belong as I tend toward pragmatism. Having said this, and before the admin folks cut me off, we absolutely have to stop fighting W. He is not running again. Even Tricky Dick II is not running again.

Hillary is our most viable option right now. However, right now the data is clear, McCain would destroy her head to head. Our only chance would be if there were a third candidate to the right of McCain drawing his support. Every time we fight W, every time we insult W, every time we look to the past, his past decisions, his past actions and fail to look forward, we help the republicans.

The Democratic party must stop whining about W like a petulant child. We need to hold on to the coasts, we need to regain the south and we need to look forward. Instead of bitching and moaning about what has happened, we need to tell the nation what we will do in the future. And our statements must not be couched in terms of "We will not follow the path of , , , ," Rather, they must be positive, proscriptive and forward looking.

I apologize because I have strayed off subject here, but I truly believe that we are our own worst political enemies. There is no way that W should have won last time. I cannot say he deserved to win, but I can say that we deserved to lose. I have seen this attitude increasingly among posters here and on other blogs. A growing number of us are recognizing the role that the Democrats have played in W's and the republicans' successes at the ballot. Frankly I am more mad at my own party than I am at republicans. If you get kicked and don't fight back, then expect to get kicked again. While the guy kicking you is most responsible, you should most certainly defend yourself. Whining about a lame duck president is not defending oneself. It is time for the Democratic house to get in order. Otherwise we will be left with McCain. He ain't no W, to be sure, but he is certainly still not my first choice.

FWH

[lady lib]

40. Thanks Skinner. Hugs to Earl and all our U.K. DUers.

[jeepster61611]

41. Terrible

Nice job Skinner, I will keep a good thought for the victims of this tragedy, and hope everyone else will do the same

[Voltaire99]

42. Well said.

Today, the proper responses are compassion for the victims and outrage for the perpetrators.

Tomorrow, the only message that counts is: George Bush, your policies and your war make the world unsafe.

[Dulcinea]

43. Hear, hear!

Very eloquent, Skinner.

My thoughts & prayers are with all citizens of the UK today.

[Oggy]

44. As a Brit DU'er

And a Londoner, Thank you. Thank you everyone at DU. Don't let today distract from fighting for Right, and the Truth.

[Arugula Latte]

59. Please convey our condolences to everyone there, Oggy.

Such a terrible day.

[bridgit]

45. there it is, solace then to our kith & kin...

[go west young man]

46. An expat living in Georgia wants to say thanks to American DU'ers.

My heart goes out to the victims of todays attacks. As it was early morning rush hour on the Underground the majority of the victims were probably Londoners. But some may be tourists. My heart goes out to them as well. And to the unfortunate muslims who keep getting stereotyped because of the way the news portrays events these days. Many people from the Middle East including Iraqis were probably killed in those blasts as anyone who has rode on the Underground knows many of the employees are of Middle Eastern descent. This needless suffering and ignorance needs to stop. Hopefully things will not escalate futher because of this. Its my belief that Bin Laden wants the Third World war. We shouldn't give it to him.

[Sugarbleus]

51. Over radio today, someone said there was an article in

New Republic by a Londoner. Said the person really gave the hate filled bombers a piece of their mind, UK style. I thought it was exquisite.

Agreed, regular muslims and mid easteners are not to blame for this.

Be well gwym

[Sugarbleus]

52. Dupe......DU overload

[Greylyn58]

47. Very Well Said Skinner

I'm still a little nervous because my best friend lives outside of London in Reading and I haven't heard from her yet. Thankfully she doesn't work in London, but she does go there from time to time. So I won't feel good until I do hear from her.

My heart goes out to anyone that is from there or has friends and or family from England. Innocent people--no matter the country--should never be made the target for these kinds of despicable acts.

[Sugarbleus]

48. Well done Skinner..Add my hugs for the People of the UK

I'm so sorry for UK's lost citizens today. Please know that your "cousins" across the pond CARE ABOUT YOU; now we worry.

Blessings to all who are sad/suffering today.

[thinkingwoman]

49. Thank you for telling it like it is. nt.

[VOX]

50. My heart goes out to Londoners, and to all the people of Great Britain...

My thoughts are with the people of Britain in these dark hours. You have proven your mettle time and again with war and death on your lands, but I am so very sorry that you must endure this tragedy, too. May you find the strength and peace to "keep smiling through."

Well said, Skinner, and thank you.

[MojoXN]

54. To my British friends:

My condolences for this terrible act of violence. You will be in my prayers. I wish that there was SOMETHING that I personally could do to help. All I can do from here is try to help you put today's events in their proper perspective. On September 11, 2001 I experienced the horror, the revulsion that I'm sure that many of you are feeling. I asked myself, "Why? What have these people done to deserve such a fate? Why would a loving God let this happen?" I still don't have the answers to those questions. Perhaps there are no answers. But that is not what I'm trying to get at; rather I want Britons to remember their proud nation's beleagured past.

The terrible violence wrought by the IRA in years past, the near total destruction of London during the Battle of Britain during WWII. None of these things broke the British spirit. Even farther in the past, the Norman conquest, or the Roman occupation remind us that Britain has seen its share of dark days. But they have always passed. ALWAYS. This time shall be no different. The British are a tough as nails, resolute people, perhaps more so than any other. These bombings will do nothing to harm your nation's spirit. The perpatrators did not achieve their goal. These acts of violence will only serve to unite the British people behind a common cause. There is nothing so mighty as a democracy enraged. Whoever was responsible for these terrorist acts is going to find that out the hard way, I assure you. On September 11, it was said by many people in your country, "Today we are all Americans." Though I wish that the events that compel my sentiments had never occured in the first place, I am nonetheless proud to say, "Today, we are all Britons." Again, my heartfelt sympathy is with my British brothers and sisters.

To brighten your spirits, here are some inspiring quotations from Sir Winston Churchill:

One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half.

To build may have to be the slow and laborious task of years. To destroy can be the thoughtless act of a single day.

We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire. Neither the sudden shock of battle nor the long-drawn trials of vigilance and exertion will wear us down. Give us the tools and we will finish the job.

Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy

All great things are simple, and many can be expressed in single words: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope.

Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events.

[Mutley]

55. Thank you Skinner.

You always seem to have a way of putting what most of us are thinking and feeling into clear and consise words. I couldn't think of a better owner for DU.

And to EarlG, all Brits, and just everyone in general.

[Moderator]

56. kick

[President Kerry]

57. EarlG, we're all with you. We're one.

Skinner, you and the mods once again have shown great grace, humanity, and common sense. You command utter respect through your thoughtful posts in difficult times. You have done a whole lot of good over the years. Thank you.

[suffragette]

58. Thanks for expressing this so eloquently

Agree with every word.

[Broken_Hero]

60. Sorry...

I'm sorry...*hangs head low* It shows what our countries leaders are getting us into, the attacks of these terrorists are only going to get closer to home. It makes me mad, but what else can we expect? We are in a country, waging war, and in turn having our troops being used as training by terrorists..its sad...

[Zomby Woof]

61. My best to EarlG and all citizens of the UK

And peace to all one day...

[faithnotgreed]

63. thanks to each of you

[shelley806]

64. Beautifully expressed as usual, Skinner. nt

[creeksneakers2]

65. Thanks Skinner n/t

[Tsiyu]

66. Kudos to you, Elad and EarlG.....and the Mods

Those Mods have been very busy today, and doing a super job in spite of the buzzing...

To all of you:


In times like these I'm glad to be part of this awesome community of human beings.

[liberalismresurgent]

67. Suggestion to DU

Try to offer condolences to other countries, not only European ones, when it comes to tragedies. Pakistan for example, suffered an attack on June. They lost 16 innocent Pakistanis in a mosque.
Iran suffered a terrorist attack from Sunnis right before the elections. the deadliest in Iran in more than a decade

To live anywhere in the world today and be against equality because of race or color is like living in Alaska and being against snow. ~William Faulkner, Essays, Speeches and Public Letters

[fberknm]

75. We aren't used to such attacks

In the US we are thankfully not accustomed to such attacks, we have had very few on our home soil. The British are more accustomed to this, as are Pakistanis, Iranians, Israelis, etc.

You are correct that we pay little attention to those nations when they suffer such events, we have become immune to such news. We adon't seem to care when one Muslim attacks another. But when a Christian is attacked by a Muslim, this is quite another matter.

It reminds me of race relations here in SoCal. There is little attention paid when one black gangmember attacks another. The police don't lift a finger. But let a black man attack a white man, it becomes the principle focus of the LAPD.

As it says,

[ElTexican]

69. I think both moderators and members did great

There was only one conservative disruptor I saw, and we had a rational discussion today that didn't seem that political actually.

Just my 2 cents.

[jurassicpork]

70. I would also like to express

...my deepest sympathies to the American public for the reaming they are about to receive yet again as Republican opportunistic scumbag cocksuckers like George Bush, Dick Halliburton and Karl Rove will wrest more of our rights away from us and use this as justification for the fucking USA PATRIOT Act and its wonderful Section 215 and "steeling our resolve" or however the fuck they'll put it, against the terrorists who, damn it, caught us napping again. Never again, we said after 9/11 and... well, damn it, we REALLY mean it, this time!

It wouldn't surprise me if Bush used this to abolish term limits and crown himself President for Life.

JP

http://jurassicpork.blogspot.com

[zinndependence]

71. thank you for the letter

[Anarcho-Socialist]

72. We Brits have had our hearts warmed

by the strength of the kind feelings directed to us by our fellow DUers across the Pond and throughout the world. Thank you Skinner and thank you DUers. We appreciate you.

[welshTerrier2]

73. i think your words ...

speak for us all ...

very well said, Skinner ...

[Swamp Rat]

76. Condolences to our brothers and sisters across the pond.

May all your griefs be hastily assuaged.