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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:53 AM
Original message
War is a two-way street....
When you give your approval to invade another country and cheer at "shock and awe" and are totally indifferent when tens of thousands of enemies are killed, then you should not be surprised when the "enemy" attacks us in return. That is the nature of war. You kill them and they kill you. It is a sad fact. May we ask, what did you expect??
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. Careful Kentuck
speaking the plain truth about the atrocity that violence is will get you tagged as a cynic politicizing the pain of others for political gain
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. Not to mention telling too much truth.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Even sadder is that a majority of Brits were against the invasion...
... and the opposition to the war in GB has only grown since then.

If anyone should have to pay the price for this, it is Tony Blair. He is the one who ultimately decided to join this ill-founded scheme of world domination.
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ChiDem Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
23. Well...
In all fairness, Blair was just re-elected.

Our evil leaders could never wage war based on lies unless we voted them into office.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Actually, Blair's party was just re-elected...
From the way I understand British politics, the PM isn't actually elected -- they're the leader of the party who controls parliament. Since the Conservatives are more war-friendly than New Labour, that meant that British voters didn't have much of a choice.

Of course, I welcome correction from any Brit DUers on this matter if I'm wrong.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. As usual
you are right on. I still think this is more complicated than that, but not much more.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. problem is Iraq didn't attack us
al queada did

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. actually your premise is wrong
it is NOT the Iraqiis that are attacking us but al queada

that is what makes this even more tragic, we have invaded a country that had NOTHING to do with 9/11 or al queada

Yes, no one talks about the thousands we have killed with our bombs in Iraq, and lack of progress against terrorism. This is what we should be outraged about

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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Strictly speaking
it is not known who attacked, at this stage.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. bbc indicated al queada(sic)
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Well, of course
everybody is indicating that based on the nature of the attack, but in the absence of any evidence or intelligence, it's just a guess, albeit an educated one.
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underthedome Donating Member (267 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. If a family member of yours is ever killed by a bomb you mind if I say
"hey, war is a two way street, what did you expect?"
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. If a family member of mine was hurt, DU is the last place I would be...
Rather, I'd be spending my time in actual human contact, with the other members of my family. To be blunt, I would probably give a shit less what a bunch of people were saying on an anonymous internet discussion board.
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underthedome Donating Member (267 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. great that's super, but you missed my point. nm
nm
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. No, I got your point just fine...
That point being that if a family member of mine was killed, I really could care less what you or just about anybody else on this board would say, because I don't know you from Adam. My interactions with most people here are strictly through the internet.

As for those who never logged on to DU, I would guess that they REALLY could care less what you or anyone else here might have to say about things.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Innocents are killed in every war...
Do you think any innocents have been killed in Iraq? Who is responsible? They had it coming? What you say is the sad part of war. Someone's family is killed . It could be mine or it could be yours. Let's support Bush and the illegal war.
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GiovanniC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. If a Family Member of Yours Was Killed By a Bomb
What would YOU do?

Would you retaliate?

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underthedome Donating Member (267 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. By killing innocent people on a bus? No nm.
nm
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Would you ever ask "why" ?
And what would you do if came up with an answer?
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GiovanniC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Well... What WOULD You Do?
I'm curious. Would you sit back and say, "Well, these things happen"?

My post was not to justify the attacks on London, which are not justifiable. However, I am curious as to whether you would sit back or if you would retaliate against a government which killed an innocent loved one.

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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. Like I Said In Another Post, We're Still Fighting The Gulf War of 1990
All of these terrorist attacks such as both WTC attacks are directly tied to our military intervention from the first Gulf War.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
10. And yet...
Al Qaeda is not Iraq. The cause of this attack may not be Iraq ultimately, but the root cause of the 9/11 attack--or root stimulus, if cause is too much of a blame-assigning word. So this is not necessarily retaliation for this particular Bushist war for Iraqi oil, but for the perceived attack of the Western world on the Islamic world.

There is a danger of confusing the minds and hands that created this chaos in London by making the same mistake the right-wing makes in failing to differentiate these particular hands from the ones resisting the occupation in Iraq.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. There was some mention, however
that Denmark and Italy received threats for backing Bush's quagmire. The bombing of Madrid was also within the context of Iraq.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. The "beauty" of Iraq is that it gives the Bushists and al Qaeda
an excuse to keep on bombing the shit out of civilians.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
16. When you shoot at someone, they'll probably shoot back
Such a simple and obvious statement that seems to confound many on DU who seem to live in a video game land where the little guys on the screen seem to shoot back but you don't actually get blown up.

We are living in a society that is in utter and complete denial of reality.

If you start a fucking war, they will fight back!!
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. But, but, but
how dare they.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
21. Retribution
often means that we eventually do to ourselves what we have done unto others.

Eric Hoffer (190283)
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spindoctor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
25. Our civilians are more valuable than their civilians
And from a sentimental perspective that is definitely true.

Some incoherent thoughts:

At this time it is cold blooded to leave sentiment out of the equation.

Israel kills 3 Palestinians for every Israeli killed. Our ratio is somewhere between 8:1 and 30:1

Too many people see war as an abstract concept. It needs to hit home in order for them to grasp the meaning of war.

No level of 'security' is going to prevent terrorist attacks.

Many European cities (including London) have dealt with terrorism for 30 years or more (IRA/ETA/BMG/RAF/PKU, etc). Why is this different?

I REALLY don't want to say "I told you so".

Peace!
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